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The problem with running the government like a business

Apr 1, 2025

Philip Joyce, a public policy professor at the University of Maryland, discusses the pitfalls of running government like a business, emphasizing that unlike businesses, governments can't afford to take risks. He highlights the historical roots of this idea and contrasts success metrics between the two sectors. Joyce also analyzes the implications of business-minded leaders like Trump and Musk on governance. The conversation touches on special elections' stakes in Wisconsin and Florida and offers reflections on community engagement and the value of admitting mistakes.

35:33

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Episode guests

Philip Joyce

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Quick takeaways

Running government like a business risks prioritizing profit over societal needs, undermining essential services and public interests.

The distinction between business and government success lies in profits for shareholders versus achieving equitable societal objectives for all constituents.

Deep dives

Origins of Business-like Government

The idea of running government like a business has historical roots tracing back to the progressive reformers of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, particularly exemplified by Woodrow Wilson. He posited that the principles for running effective businesses and governments were fundamentally the same. This notion captivates many because it contrasts the perceived inefficiencies and dysfunctionality of government with the streamlined operations of successful companies. However, the challenges faced by government often stem more from political dynamics than mere mismanagement, indicating that the problems cannot simply be fixed by applying business strategies.

Intro

5min

Government vs Business: A Balancing Act

15min

Challenges of Business Models in Government Services

2min

Engaging Politics and Community Connections

12min

The Challenge of Changing Deeply Held Beliefs

3min

The idea that the government should be run more like a business isn’t new. But with two businessmen, Donald Trump and Elon Musk, now taking a proverbial chainsaw to the federal bureaucracy all in the name “efficiency,” this theory is being put to the test. While it’s an appealing idea, Philip Joyce, professor of public policy at the University of Maryland School of Public Policy, said governments can’t afford to take risks the way businesses can. On the show today, Joyce explains the origins of the idea that the government should be run like a business, how we define “success” differently for the two entities, and how the way Trump and Musk do business is showing up in the White House.

Then, we’ll break down the high stakes of today’s special elections in Wisconsin and Florida. Plus, reflections on serendipitous moments in walkable communities and what we gain by admitting we were wrong.

Here’s everything we talked about today: