#55 - Jocko Willink, retired Navy SEAL, Part I of II: objective, strategy & tactics, leadership, protocols, dealing with death, and applying the many lessons learned from war
May 27, 2019
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In this captivating discussion, Jocko Willink, a retired Navy SEAL and bestselling author, shares invaluable lessons from his military career. He delves into the critical differences between objectives, strategy, and tactics, emphasizing the power of humility in leadership. Jocko highlights the need for effective protocols in dealing with life’s hardships, including loss and relationship challenges. He reflects on how military training shapes decision-making and the importance of distinguishing what truly matters in life.
Humility is crucial for effective leadership, allowing leaders to learn, adapt, and build trust.
The cover and move principle emphasizes teamwork and collaboration for successful navigation in combat.
Leaders must be prepared to adapt and adjust plans to changing circumstances.
Leaders should recognize the limitations of memory and seek different perspectives to make informed decisions.
BUDS training requires mental toughness, detachment from emotions, and clear decision-making.
Having protocols in life enables taking action and focusing on what truly matters.
Deep dives
The Importance of Humility in Leadership
Humility is a crucial attribute for effective leadership, whether in combat or in the business world. By being humble, leaders are open to listening to others, considering different perspectives, and admitting when they don't know everything. This humility allows leaders to learn from their team members and make better decisions. A humble leader recognizes that they don't always have the right answers and is willing to adapt and change course when necessary. Additionally, humility builds trust and respect among team members, as they feel valued and heard. Balancing humility with confidence is important, as being too humble can lead to a lack of assertiveness and decision-making when it is needed.
The Power of Cover and Move
In combat, one of the fundamental principles is cover and move. This principle emphasizes the need for teamwork and collaboration, where one individual provides cover fire while the other moves to a safer position. This strategy allows for the effective navigation of dangerous or hostile environments. By understanding and implementing cover and move tactics, soldiers can minimize risks and increase their chances of success. While there may be situations that deviate from this principle, such as when immediate action is necessary, cover and move remains a crucial tactic that ensures the safety and effectiveness of the team.
The Value of Being Prepared to Adapt
Combat and other challenging situations often require quick decision-making and the ability to adapt to rapidly changing circumstances. Leaders must recognize that their plans may not always work and remain open to adjusting their approach when needed. Being prepared to adapt involves humility and an understanding that one's initial ideas or strategies may not be the best or most effective. Through constant evaluation and a willingness to consider alternative perspectives, leaders can make more informed decisions and respond effectively to unexpected situations.
Understanding the Limitations of Memory and Perspective
A vital lesson in leadership is recognizing the limitations of memory and perspective. People are prone to biases, faulty recollections, and misinterpretations, which can lead to incorrect assumptions and decision-making. It is essential for leaders to actively seek different perspectives, question their own memories and beliefs, and remain open to learning and growth. By acknowledging these limitations, leaders can make better-informed decisions, foster a culture of continuous learning, and avoid the trap of arrogance and overconfidence.
Preparation and Unknown Challenges of BUDS Training
After going through eight weeks of boot camp in the Navy, the speaker was sent to the two-month prep course in Chicago before entering BUDS training. When he joined BUDS, he wasn't fully prepared because he didn't know what to expect. BUDS training is a demanding six-month program that has a 70-80% attrition rate, with the majority of dropouts occurring in the beginning and during Hell Week. Hell Week is particularly challenging, involving intense physical workouts, lack of sleep, and cold water conditions. The mindset of being mentally tough is crucial, as those who become nervous or hesitant during training tend to struggle. The speaker emphasizes the importance of being detached from emotions, focusing on what's important, and taking a step back to assess the situation in order to make clear decisions.
Protocols for Life's Challenges
The speaker reflects on the significance of having protocols in life to navigate challenging situations. He shares examples of protocols that can be applied, such as dealing with the loss of a loved one or going through a breakup. By having a protocol to follow, people can take action and move forward, rather than dwelling on the situation. The speaker also emphasizes the importance of detaching from intense emotions and looking at things objectively, which enables better decision-making and helps identify what truly matters in life. He also mentions the gift of perspective that comes from experiencing the realities of war and highlights the importance of being detached from emotions and staying focused on the factors in one's control.
BUDS Training Challenges and Attrition Rates
BUDS training is a highly demanding program designed to train Navy SEAL candidates. It lasts for 26 weeks, and the attrition rate is around 70-80%. Hell Week, typically held around the fifth or sixth week, is the period with the highest attrition rate. Trainees endure grueling physical workouts, sleep deprivation, and cold water conditions as part of the training. The speaker acknowledges the difficulty of BUDS training and the challenges candidates face, including underwater knot tying, life-saving exercises, and timed evolutions. The goal is to push individuals to their limits, testing their mental fortitude and commitment.
Importance of winning over the populace in counterinsurgency
In a counterinsurgency, it is crucial to win over the hearts and minds of the local population. This was a key lesson learned from the Vietnam War, where the Viet Cong successfully gained passive support from the villagers, while the American forces struggled to win over the populace.
The role of decentralization and maneuver warfare
Decentralized command and maneuver warfare were key strategies employed by the German forces in World War II. This approach led to swift and successful campaigns early on. However, as the war progressed, centralized decision-making by Hitler hindered the effectiveness of these strategies.
Lessons from the Korean War
The Korean War saw a reversion to trench warfare similar to World War I. The conflict was fought against an asymmetrical opponent, making it a challenging combat situation. It highlighted the need to win over the populace and effectively combat guerrilla tactics.
The impact of technology in the first Gulf War
The first Gulf War witnessed significant technological advancements, such as smart bombs, stealth technology, and night vision. These advancements provided a substantial advantage for the U.S. forces, establishing a much greater delta between the militaries. However, this technological advantage may have contributed to a false sense of confidence in future conflicts.
In part 1 of this 2 part series, Jocko Willink, retired Navy SEAL, discusses some of his most important lessons learned from his time commanding some of the world’s most expert special forces operators including the importance of understanding the objective and strategy (and then tactics) of a mission, why humility is the greatest trait a leader can have (and certain times when it’s not), as well as the necessity of having proper protocols in place to deal with whatever comes your way. We also talk about how Jocko prioritizes his military and family obligations with his love for jiu-jitsu, as well as how to decipher what really matters in life. Finally, we go through the US history with respect to various wars from World War I, all the way forward, and much much more.
We discuss:
Objective, strategy, and tactics [6:00];
Training compared to actual combat [20:30];
The importance of humility in leadership, business, and life [33:00];
The dichotomy of human traits: Can you be too humble? [49:00];
Why many leaders lack humility [52:30];
Why Jocko wanted to be a Navy SEAL [55:00];
Jocko’s attitude toward death, and dealing with the death of a soldier [58:45];
The vital importance of protocols [1:03:45];
Protocol for losing a child (or anyone close to you) [1:15:00];
Protocol for getting dumped, and some relationship advice [1:18:00];
How to differentiate between things that matter and things that don’t [1:24:30];
Jocko shares his experience during BUD/S [1:35:45];
How Jocko prioritizes his family and SEALs obligations: Would Jocko come out of retirement and go back to war? [1:48:30];
America’s lost sense of connectedness and purpose since WWII [1:59:00];
How warfare has evolved over the decades since WWI [2:05:40];
Obeying orders and the obligation to dissent [2:09:00];
WWI and WWII, the beginnings of “decentralized command” [2:15:00];
The American warrior mentality, and the impact of freedom on a society [2:20:45];
What impact can an individual president really have? [2:25:00];
The Korean war [2:29:15];
Lessons learned from Vietnam [2:31:10];
First Gulf War, Iraq War, and The War in Afghanistan [2:35:45]; and
In part 1 of this 2 part series, Jocko Willink, retired Navy SEAL, discusses some of his most important lessons learned from his time commanding some of the world’s most expert special forces operators including the importance of understanding the objective and strategy (and then tactics) of a mission, why humility is the greatest trait a leader can have (and certain times when it’s not), as well as the necessity of having proper protocols in place to deal with whatever comes your way. We also talk about how Jocko prioritizes his military and family obligations with his love for jiu-jitsu, as well as how to decipher what really matters in life. Finally, we go through the US history with respect to various wars from World War I, all the way forward, and much much more.
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