Ep108. (Part 2) How to Combat Extreme Ideas with Julia Ebner

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Mar 25, 2025

In this engaging conversation, Julia Ebner, an expert on extremist infiltration and author of "Going Mainstream," dives deep into the rise of extreme ideas in mainstream discourse. She explores the Overton Window's role in shifting political narratives and the profound impact of conspiracy theories on public health and policy. Julia shares insights from her undercover work in online subcultures like the incel community, revealing how loneliness fuels extremism. She emphasizes the necessity of defending expertise and proposes innovative solutions to combat the spread of misinformation.

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INSIGHT

Extremist Strategies

Extremist groups strategically test boundaries and push for radical change, but not too radical.
They manage their reputation and policy stances to gain mainstream acceptance.

INSIGHT

Overton Window

The Overton window describes the range of acceptable ideas in public discourse. Extremist groups exploit this by pushing boundaries, especially after traumatic events.

ANECDOTE

Trump and Puerto Rico

Jason recounts an instance where Trump insulted Puerto Ricans but didn't lose votes, indicating a shift in the Overton window.
Comments once unacceptable are now normalized, suggesting a shift in political discourse.

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This is the second part of a two-part interview with Julia Ebner -- the princess of extremist infiltration, the queen of counter radicalization, and author of Going Mainstream: Why Extreme Ideas are Spreading, and What We Can Do About It.

Please listen to Part 1 before coming to this episode.

In this conversation, Julia and Jason focus on how extreme ideas enter the mainstream and the implications of the concept of the ‘Overton Window’ [more on that in the links below] for how the boundaries of acceptable political discourse change as ever more extreme ideas are articulated. Jason pushes Julia to draw on her undercover work among the incel community to explain their worldview and the centrality of the concept of being red-pilled.

And as they Order the Disorder, they discuss the importance of defending expertise in public discourse and Julia proposes an institution that could prevent people from falling into conspiracy theories.

Producer: George McDonagh

Executive Producer: Neil Fearn

Subscribe to our Substack (for free, or get the PAID version to get a discount on our March 21st event with Bill Browder and Stephanie Baker at the Frontline Club): https://natoandtheged.substack.com/

Show Notes Links:

For an explanation of the Overton window visit https://theweek.com/102517/the-overton-window-explained

For more on Julia visit https://www.julia-ebner.com/speaker

For a great video about her life and experiences: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y4Kv6P6VII

Get Julia’s book ‘Going Mainstream: Why extreme ideas are spreading, and what we can do about it’ - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Going-Mainstream-extreme-ideas-spreading/dp/1804183784

Read Jason’s article, ‘A lizard person’s guide to US election conspiracy theories’ in the New European: https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/a-lizard-persons-guide-to-us-election-conspiracy-theories/

Listen: Episode 77 - The System is Rigged: Conspiracy theories and the revenge of the losers https://pod.link/1706818264/episode/cc41cbf3e1c05fb8a696e0faad151283 This is the second part of a two-part interview with Julia Ebner -- the princess of extremist infiltration, the queen of counter radicalization, and author of Going Mainstream: Why Extreme Ideas are Spreading, and What We Can Do About It.

Please listen to Part 1 before coming to this episode.

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