Disorder

To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content (like this week’s special bonus about the UN’s and Jason’s Birthday) and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/  In this listener questions episode, Jason and Jane discuss a range of issues from Israel-Gaza, to football hooliganism, to Kaliningrad (the Russian exclave), to the possibility of mega ordering institutions. They start by analysing the strategic importance of an alliance with Israel to the US by dissecting the Realist and Neo-conservative cases. Jane and Jason revisit the controversy of Maccabi Tel Aviv fans being banned from Birmingham by delving into the intersection of football and politics and the difference of fan culture in the US and UK. After the break, Jane and Jason tackle the questions: do sanctions on Russia go far enough? Could there be sanctions against the Kaliningrad exclave? Are we closer to nuclear war with Russia since the drone strikes? Why are we normalising Trump’s White House renovations? And as they Order the Disorder: we return as always to the need for a mega ordering club of democracies, how we decide on a common set of European values, and if the Ave Europe charity is on the right track. Producer: George McDonagh Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/ Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow Show Notes Links: Join the Mega Orderers Club via this link: https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/ Read the Ave Europa Charter: https://ave-europa.eu/charter/  Mearsheimer on ‘The Israel Lobby's Awesome Power’ https://mearsheimer.substack.com/p/the-israel-lobbys-awesome-power And push back against his thoughts: https://www.israelfactcheck.com/debunking-mearsheimer-walt-s-theories-on-israel-influence  Some background on Kaliningrad: https://besacenter.org/kaliningrad-russias-exclave-in-europe/  Other perspectives on the rights of football fans and Maccabi hooliganism: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/oct/21/police-intelligence-on-extreme-maccabi-fans-with-history-of-violence-led-to-villa-park-ban Fighting for the rights of football fans How a Cambridge researcher fought for the rights of football fans and won: https://www.cam.ac.uk/stories/footballact2012  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/  As Trump parades across the Middle East collecting adulation for his ‘eternal peace’ deal, Jane and Jason break down the realities and explain that what was achieved was merely a hostage release, prisoner swap, and ceasefire. With Phase 2 looming and infighting already starting in Gaza, they look at the role of the various international actors (like Qatar, Egypt, UK, US) in possibly creating technocratic governance of Gaza. Plus: Is now the time for an Iran peace deal and as the UN Charter turns 80, what might the future of the organisation be? Finally, as they Order the Disorder, they discuss the need for progressive politicians to become better communicators. Producer: George McDonagh Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/ Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow Show Notes Links: Join the Mega Orderers Club via this link: https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/  For an explainer on Iran latest, read Gaza Ceasefire Could Give Iran Another Chance at Negotiations with the US - https://www.stimson.org/2025/gaza-ceasefire-could-give-iran-another-chance-at-negotiations-with-the-us/  Watch Jane discussing what’s next for Middle East - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alTViSc3FJk  Read UN says countries are willing to help fund Gaza's $70 bln reconstruction https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-says-states-willing-fund-gazas-70-bln-rebuild-2025-10-14/  Read Why Was the President of FIFA at the Gaza Summit? https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/14/world/middleeast/gianni-infantino-fifa-trump.html  Read What Gaza has been like since the ceasefire in Vox - https://apple.news/Ao4Xzg8yKT5-aVo-nm8769A  Read BBC Expert Says The Israel-Palestine Conflict 'Will Continue' Despite Trump's Peace Plan - https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/bbc-expert-says-the-israel-palestine-conflict-will-continue-despite-trumps-peace-plan_uk_68eb5d49e4b0abf20b6b0850?ncid=APPLENEWS00001   Watch Syrian President Ahmed al-Sharaa interview with CBC https://share.google/Eik7y67VmISQHiegN  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/  To discuss from a Palestinian perspective the fallout of October 7th, two years of the Gaza War, and the suffering of the Palestinians from occupation, displacement, cantonization, and bombardments, Jason is joined by Sam Bahour, a Palestinian-American entrepreneur based in Ramallah. There is much said in this episode that Jason does not agree with but rather than constantly arguing with the guest, Jason is committed to presenting different points of view and tried to err on the side of letting Sam speak so the listener can make up their own mind, especially when contrasting the narrative with the episode with Phil Rosenberg from last week. Sam and Jason discuss the implications of the recently announced and implemented Trump’s ‘Eternal Peace’ which is really just a Gaza ceasefire in exchange for Israeli hostage releases, the realities of life in the West Bank under Israeli occupation, the economic challenges of reconstruction of Gaza and standing up Palestinian institutions, and the role of the international community states in those state building and reconstruction efforts. Jason and Sam disagree agreeably about the role of the international community and technocratic governments in Palestine and beyond, while Bahour emphasizes the need for Palestinian self-determination and leadership.  And as Sam Orders the Disorder, he highlights how changing dynamics in U.S. support for Israel and Palestine could result in a different dynamic in the Middle East.  Producer: George McDonagh Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/ Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow Show Notes Links: Join the Mega Orderers Club via this link: https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/  For more of Sam’s writing visit https://epalestine.ps/sambahour/  To Check out our previous episode Commemorating October 7th Part 1: Phil Rosenberg, President of the Board of Deputies of British Jews click here: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/ep-146-commemorating-october-7th-part-1-phil-rosenberg/id1706818264?i=1000730501569  Read Jason's piece Internationalize the Solution for Gaza and Iran https://natoandtheged.substack.com/p/internationalize-the-solution-for Read Gazans Are Finished With Hamas https://www.wsj.com/opinion/gazans-are-finished-with-hamas-commander-popular-forces-5d9a6345 Israel is backing a militia known for looting aid in Gaza https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2025/06/09/israel-is-backing-a-militia-known-for-looting-aid-in-gaza_6742148_4.html Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm?sc_promo=DISORDER10 This timely episode was recorded before the horrors of the Manchester Yom Kippur Synagogue terrorist attack of October 2nd and the potential optimism of the Trump deal to end the Gaza War which is currently in limbo. This episode deals extensively with issues of antisemitism, humanitarian suffering in Gaza, and the potentialities of Middle East peace. As we mark 2 years since the horrific October 7th massacre in Israel -- and the disastrous regional wars and tragic humanitarian crisis in Gaza that have ensued in its wake-- we here at Disorder are producing a two-episode series dealing with the legacy of that fateful day: one from a British-Jewish perspective and one from a Palestinian-American perspective.  To start with, we’re joined by Phil Rosenberg, President of The Board of Deputies of British Jews. Phil is the highest-ranking communal official representing the Jewish community to the UK government and media. Jason and Phil discuss the ongoing ramifications of the attacks on Jewish life in the UK, the rise of global antisemitism, and the role played by misinformation and conspiracy theories in manipulating public perception of Jews. Plus: is the UK's position on the ongoing Israel-Hamas conflict a help or a hinderance? And did the mass of Western states recognising a Palestinian state actually move the needle towards a two-state solution or has it just further entrenched the conflict? Join us next week to hear our conversation with Sam Bahour, who will give the perspective from Ramallah.  Producer: George McDonagh Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/ Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow Show Notes Links: Join the Mega Orderers Club via this link: https://disorder.supportingcast.fm?sc_promo=DISORDER10 Read a report from Phil’s organisation on the Response to 7th October – how the UK Jewish community was impacted. https://www.jpr.org.uk/reports/year-after-october-7-british-jewish-views-israel-antisemitism-and-jewish-life  For more on Trump’s Gaza peace initiative: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/05/world/middleeast/trump-netanyahu-gaza-deal.html  For more on The Board of Deputies of British Jews work to tackle antisemitism visit https://bod.org.uk/bod-news/commission-on-antisemitism/  For a legal and structural argument for why recognition of a Palestinian State will  not help make piece listen to this Call Me Back episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/call-me-back-with-dan-senor/id1539292794?i=1000727804529  Listen to our previous episode with Joseph Uscinski on Conspiracy Theories and their hidden logic: https://open.spotify.com/episode/2nvlI3hR1VFyMbgKaZddyi  Listen to our previous episode on extremism and Conspiracy Theories with Julia Ebner: https://pod.link/1706818264/episode/MjJkNjlmZDItMDExZi0xMWYwLTg4MWUtZGZjZDhiYzFhNTEz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm?sc_promo=DISORDER10 When Trump stormed into UNGA last week, complained about escalators and tele prompters, and swung back out… the UN was faced with some questions. How do we navigate a world through Trump’s America? And what does it mean for the very future of the UN? To find out, and reflect on UNGA as a whole, Jane is joined by Richard Gowan, the International Crisis Group's UN expert. They discuss Trump’s speech, Netanyahu’s appearance, and who will be the next UN Secretary General when elections take place? Producer: George McDonagh Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/ Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow Show Notes Links: Join the Mega Orderers Club via this link: https://disorder.supportingcast.fm?sc_promo=DISORDER10 Read Richard’s piece ‘Ten Challenges for the UN in 2025-2026’ https://www.crisisgroup.org/global/sb13-ten-challenges-un-2025-2026  Read Richard in Foreign Policy on America’s Infuriating and Irreplaceable Role at the U.N. https://foreignpolicy.com/2025/09/19/trump-washington-united-nations-unga-reform/  Read Calls grow for first female UN chief in 80 years https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/calls-grow-first-female-un-chief-80-years-2025-09-26/  Burmese academic Thant Myint-U on the legacy of his grandfather, former SG U Thant, and the need for the UN to reclaim its role in peace and security - https://www.chathamhouse.org/publications/the-world-today/2025-09/u-thant-helped-save-world-nuclear-war-1962-who-could-do-now  Martin Griffiths, former UN humanitarian chief, on the UN at 80, including his thought on the Black Sea grain deal that Richard referenced - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/aug/26/un-recover-courage-palestine-ukraine-sudan  Listen to To Save Us From Hell, Mark Goldberg's podcast about the UN, focusing here on Trump's speech - https://www.globaldispatches.org/p/your-countries-are-going-to-hell-9f5 Watch Jane’s thoughts from New York https://www.youtube.com/shorts/iBppHmWp8Cc  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We here at Disorder are thrilled to announce a subscription Club with lots of perks for our fans. Given these dire times and our inability to break even we really need your support. To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm?sc_promo=DISORDER10 Even a small amount from you on the lowest tier will go along way for us, so thank you so much for your generosity.  Now to today’s episode, this week, we take listener questions and announce on air our new Mega Orderers Club, how it will work, and what perks we will offer. Jason and Jane discuss the need for local government to both ‘fix the potholes’ while tackling long term issues. Plus: Is free speech dead in America? Are we doing enough on climate change? And what role will the UK’s Green Party’s new leader Zack Polanski play in fighting Farage’s Neo-populism? And as they try to end on a positive note – Jane feels inspired by her conversations about multilateralism, while Jason sees American culture as possessing reserves of strength and social cohesion, if only those can be drawn on for Order, tolerance, and acceptance. Producer: George McDonagh Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/ Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow Show Notes Links: Join the Mega Orderers Club via this link: https://disorder.supportingcast.fm?sc_promo=DISORDER10  And For a legal and structural argument for why recognition of a Palestinian State will  not help make piece listen to this Call Me Back episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/call-me-back-with-dan-senor/id1539292794?i=1000727804529  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

For a special bonus episode, we give you Jason’s conversation with Michael Baranowski, of The Politics Guys podcast. They discuss: Jason’s concept of global enduring disorder, the implications of this disorder for global politics, the role of the US, and the need for new governance structures to address transnational challenges. Plus: the rise of neopopulism across the globe, its implications for democracy, and the challenges it poses to the current global order. And as they Order the Disorder, they find rays of hope in the resilience of the US economy and the strength of Ukrainian allies. Producer: George McDonagh Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/ Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow Show Notes Links: For more on the Politics Guys visit - https://politicsguys.com/  Listen to their episode Is There Really Democracy in America? - https://politicsguys.com/is-there-really-democracy-in-america/  Hear Jason on the podcast - https://politicsguys.com/populism-power-and-the-enduring-global-disorder/  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Katie Martin, a markets columnist at the Financial Times and host of the Unhedged podcast, dives into why stock markets are weathering political chaos. She highlights the tech rally and foreign dollar-hedging keeping markets buoyant, while questioning the impact of Trump's unpredictable tariffs. Discussions also cover the role of AI investments, the shift from public to private markets, and the potential for the euro to challenge the dollar's dominance. Martin offers insights into UK fiscal policies and the dynamics of gilts and treasuries in this complex landscape.

As Trump touches down in the UK, Elon Musk provokes a riot in Westminister and Kier Starmer’s government is set to recognise Palestinian Statehood. Last week, Israel attacked Hamas leaders in Qatar. Did they hit them? Did they miss? Did Mossad advise against the IDF’s plan? There’s a lot of Disorder out there. To discuss these issues as well as: his recent family vacation road trip across France, the politics of theme parks, how AI will transform advertising, and how Trump actually exudes a unique form of charisma  in person, Jason is joined by a new Mega Ordererer, Mark Lobel -- a BBC journalist and TV anchor with two decades experience covering business, technology, the Middle East, and more.  In their free-flowing conversation, they discuss the implications of Trump's upcoming UK visit, Israel’s risky move in Qatar, how AI will completely change political communication, and the debt crisis in France. Producer: George McDonagh Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/ Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow Show Notes Links: For more on Mark’s Mega-Ordering Background:  https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/profiles/4t9w5sRNMnyfdT77k0Ym4v7/mark-lobel and https://www.mark-lobel.com/bio  For more on the Israeli attack on Qatar and how Mossad was against the IDF’s plan: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/call-me-back-with-dan-senor/id1539292794?i=1000725930815 For more on nationalist re-enactment theme parks in France: https://www.puydufou.com/france/en/must-see-france  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Britain has a new Foreign Secretary, Yvette Cooper, and this week’s episode dives into the UK’s foreign policy and how it could in theory transcend some of the country’s current political divides. To dig into this topic, Jane and Jason are joined by Michael Stephens, senior fellow at Global Nation and an associate fellow at RUSI. Mike’s new report, ‘Rules Britannia’ is being launched today, and is full of proposals for how Britain can help Order the Disorder. Mike and his co-authors are trying to build a broad consensus across political parties and traditions, to advance ‘a unifying vision of Britain’s role in the world that is grounded in our national values’.   Brits do generally see their country as one that can play a positive role in the world. But the recent years have lost that consensus with rival sloans: from Brexit and “Global Britain”, to the short-lived “tilt to the Indo-Pacific”, then the “NATO-first” approach of the strategic defence review. In short, recent British policy has been somewhat confused by the succession of different governments and foreign secretaries in the past few years. And as results British citizens do not feel current policy reflects their priorities.   Delving into the topic, the panel talk about opportunities for the U.K. to play a leading role in areas that it’s good at: rule of law, international finance and public health. These are the domains where there can be cross-party support rooted in a sense of Britain’s comparative advantages. We also discuss why Ukraine has - so far - been a unifying cause for Brits, with successive prime ministers committed to supporting the country’s independence with military assistance - in stark contrast to the US. And who else can Britain work with in a “global middle-power alliance” to “change the calculations of the rule-breakers that are currently upending the international order” (per the report), while also trying to persuade the US not to abandon that order wholesale? In one of the punchier moments of debate, Jason questions why migration is dominating the headlines and why no one right now in British politics seems to want to make the positive case for attracting the best talent from around the world. Producer: George McDonagh Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/ Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow Show Notes Links:  Britain rules out backing for global defence bank - Reuters https://apple.news/AjpCOumOZTFaB9wBe7VJH1w  Hassan Damluji, Michael Stephens and Anna Hope  - Rules Britannia: How a foreign policy guided by fair play can keep Britain safe and promote economic growth https://globalnation.world/publications/rules-britannia-how-a-foreign-policy-guided-by-fair-play-can-promote-economic-growth-and-keep-britain-safe/    Steve Bloomfield, International Editor of The Observer, Since when did the Foreign Office become a demotion? https://observer.co.uk/news/politics/article/since-when-did-the-foreign-office-become-a-demotio    Was this a missed opportunity for Britain to lead on financing defence for democratic allies? Britain rules out backing global defence bank - https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/britain-rules-out-backing-global-defence-bank-2025-09-04/  Background on today’s angry debate about migration in Britain: The “Boriswave” – how the Conservative government that was elected to “get Brexit done” adopted policies that massively boosted migration (from outside the EU) - https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2025/02/the-boriswave-problem  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices