This is the second part of a two-part interview with Julia Ebner -- the princess of extremist infiltration, the queen of counter radicalization, and author of Going Mainstream: Why Extreme Ideas are Spreading, and What We Can Do About It. 

Please listen to Part 1 before coming to this episode. 

In this conversation, Julia and Jason focus on how extreme ideas enter the mainstream and the implications of the concept of the ‘Overton Window’ [more on that in the links below] for how the boundaries of acceptable political discourse change as ever more extreme ideas are articulated. Jason pushes Julia to draw on her undercover work among the incel community to explain their worldview and the centrality of the concept of being red-pilled.  

And as they Order the Disorder, they discuss the importance of defending expertise in public discourse and Julia proposes an institution that could prevent people from falling into conspiracy theories. 

Producer: George McDonagh 

Executive Producer: Neil Fearn 

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Show Notes Links: 

For an explanation of the Overton window visit https://theweek.com/102517/the-overton-window-explained  

For more on Julia visit https://www.julia-ebner.com/speaker  

For a great video about her life and experiences: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y4Kv6P6VII  

Get Julia’s book ‘Going Mainstream: Why extreme ideas are spreading, and what we can do about it’ - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Going-Mainstream-extreme-ideas-spreading/dp/1804183784  

Read Jason’s article, ‘A lizard person’s guide to US election conspiracy theories’ in the New European: https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/a-lizard-persons-guide-to-us-election-conspiracy-theories/  

Listen: Episode 77 - The System is Rigged: Conspiracy theories and the revenge of the losers https://pod.link/1706818264/episode/cc41cbf3e1c05fb8a696e0faad151283 This is the second part of a two-part interview with Julia Ebner -- the princess of extremist infiltration, the queen of counter radicalization, and author of Going Mainstream: Why Extreme Ideas are Spreading, and What We Can Do About It. 

Please listen to Part 1 before coming to this episode. 

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