The Tim Ferriss Show

#458: The Psychedelic News Hour: New Breakthroughs, Compound Comparisons and Warnings (Psilocybin/LSD/Ayahuasca/N,N-DMT/5-MeO-DMT), Treatment of Trauma, Scalable vs. Unscalable Approaches, Making Sense of “Bad” Trips, and Much More

Sep 3, 2020

In a thought-provoking discussion, Dr. David Rabin, a board-certified psychiatrist and co-founder of Apollo Neuroscience, and Dr. Molly Maloof, a physician and Stanford lecturer, dive into the world of psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy. They explore breakthroughs in treating trauma, emphasizing the importance of a supportive environment. The duo highlights the role of diverse funding in advancing research and the ethical implications within the psychedelic community. They also address coping strategies for challenging trips and the integration of technology in mental health care.

01:38:32

Episode guests

Molly Maloof

David Rabin

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Quick takeaways

Challenges in scaling psilocybin therapy include therapist training and safety oversight.

Stigma among healthcare professionals impedes mental health support for frontline workers.

Start low and progress cautiously in psychedelic therapy for safe and controlled experiences.

Deep dives

Scaling and Impact of Psilocybin Therapy

Scaling psilocybin therapy to reach more individuals presents challenges in training therapists, supervision, and maintaining oversight to ensure safety and success. While the current model involves controlled growth, future expansion is anticipated to increase exponentially, demanding organized efforts to address adverse events, ensure supervision, and prevent backlash.

The Paradime Shift in Mental Illness

01:29

MDMA Is the Worst Medicine to Micro Dose for Treatment Resistant PTSD

03:40

Psychidal Therapy - Is It a Good Idea?

02:45

Psychiatry - Is It a New Thing?

05:00

Intro

4min

Transforming Mental Health Through Psychedelics

31min

The Vital Role of Diverse Research Funding in Psychedelic Studies

4min

Philanthropy and Psychedelics: Navigating New Frontiers

24min

Cautious Exploration of Psychedelic Therapy

14min

Harnessing Technology and Psychedelics for Health and Societal Change

2min

Navigating Psychedelic Ethics and Experiences

17min

Reflecting on Insights and Leadership Wisdom

3min

Welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is normally my job to deconstruct world-class performers of various types, of all ilks.

In this special episode, the tables are turned. Instead of interviewing someone else, I am interviewed by two experts on several topics I’ve both studied and supported, including psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy and what it can do to heal trauma and—broadly speaking—possible futures for mental health. This audio was recorded on a new show, The Psychedelic News Hour, soon to be a podcast, and I’m in conversation with two people: David Rabin, MD, PhD, (@drdavidrabin), a board-certified psychiatrist and neuroscientist, executive director of The Board of Medicine, and co-founder of Apollo Neuroscience, and Molly Maloof, MD, (@drmolly.co), a physician, Stanford lecturer, and ketamine-assisted psychotherapist.

This episode was recorded on Clubhouse, an app still in private beta and defined by their tagline: “Clubhouse is a space for casual, drop-in audio conversations—with friends and other interesting people around the world.”

One final note: I recorded this on my phone, a necessity for using the app, so the audio quality isn’t studio quality, but it was polished as much as possible. Thank you for understanding, and thanks to everyone who joined and asked thoughtful questions.

This episode is brought to you by the book How to Lead by David Rubenstein. David Rubenstein is one of the visionary founders of The Carlyle Group and host of The David Rubenstein Show, where he speaks to leaders from every walk of life about who they are, how they define "success," and what it means to lead. Jeff Bezos, Richard Branson, Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Phil Knight, Oprah — all of them and more — are featured in his new book, titled How to Lead. This comprehensive leadership playbook illustrates the principles and guiding philosophies of the world’s greatest game-changers. In its pages, you can discover the experts’ secrets to being effective and innovative leaders.

Past podcast guest Walter Isaacson had this to say: "Reading this invaluable trove of advice from the greatest leaders of our time is like sitting in an armchair and listening to the masters reveal their secrets.” Pick up a copy of How to Lead: Wisdom from the World’s Greatest CEOs, Founders, and Game Changers by David Rubinstein in hardcover, ebook, or audio anywhere books are sold.

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Past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show include Jerry Seinfeld, Hugh Jackman, Dr. Jane Goodall, LeBron James, Kevin Hart, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Jamie Foxx, Matthew McConaughey, Esther Perel, Elizabeth Gilbert, Terry Crews, Sia, Yuval Noah Harari, Malcolm Gladwell, Madeleine Albright, Cheryl Strayed, Jim Collins, Mary Karr, Maria Popova, Sam Harris, Michael Phelps, Bob Iger, Edward Norton, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Neil Strauss, Ken Burns, Maria Sharapova, Marc Andreessen, Neil Gaiman, Neil de Grasse Tyson, Jocko Willink, Daniel Ek, Kelly Slater, Dr. Peter Attia, Seth Godin, Howard Marks, Dr. Brené Brown, Eric Schmidt, Michael Lewis, Joe Gebbia, Michael Pollan, Dr. Jordan Peterson, Vince Vaughn, Brian Koppelman, Ramit Sethi, Dax Shepard, Tony Robbins, Jim Dethmer, Dan Harris, Ray Dalio, Naval Ravikant, Vitalik Buterin, Elizabeth Lesser, Amanda Palmer, Katie Haun, Sir Richard Branson, Chuck Palahniuk, Arianna Huffington, Reid Hoffman, Bill Burr, Whitney Cummings, Rick Rubin, Dr. Vivek Murthy, Darren Aronofsky, and many more.