The Gray Area with Sean Illing

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Malcolm Gladwell’s Stranger Things

Oct 3, 2019

Guest

Malcolm Gladwell

Malcolm Gladwell, bestselling author and host of Revisionist History, explores a range of profound themes. He discusses the bold choices we make in life-or-death situations, using hockey as a metaphor for critical decision-making. Gladwell dives into the narrative complexities of police violence, particularly the Sandra Bland case, and the societal impact of trust and deception. He reflects on personal identity shaped through sports and storytelling while contrasting American and Canadian attitudes towards strangers. Prepare for an enlightening ride!

01:37:22

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ADVICE

Pull the Goalie

Malcolm Gladwell's overriding life rule is "pull the goalie."
This means taking extreme measures when all seems lost, especially with low probability, high-stakes events.

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ANECDOTE

Gladwell's Upbringing

Gladwell grew up in 1970s Ontario, a place he describes as idyllic and uneventful.
This upbringing contrasts with his "pull the goalie" philosophy, as his life lacked high-stakes situations.

insights

INSIGHT

Engaging with Sports

Sean Illing struggles to connect with sports due to perceived low stakes and length.
Gladwell suggests focusing on reading and learning about sports rather than just watching.

Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode

Exploring Identity Through Sports and Storytelling

04:49 • 23min

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Narratives of Trust and Deception

27:19 • 10min

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Racial Dynamics and Policing: The Sandra Bland Case

37:29 • 22min

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Unpacking Personal Narratives

59:29 • 8min

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Navigating Trust and Accountability in Leadership

01:07:29 • 11min

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Trust and Strangers: Cultural Dynamics in America and Canada

01:18:40 • 15min

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Book Recommendations and Final Thoughts

01:33:24 • 2min

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How to Change

The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be

Katy Milkman

In this ground-breaking book, Katy Milkman reveals a proven path to help readers move from where they are to where they want to be. Drawing on her original research and the work of her world-renowned scientific collaborators, Milkman shares strategic methods for identifying and overcoming common barriers to change, such as impulsivity, procrastination, and forgetfulness. The book offers innovative approaches like 'temptation bundling,' using timely reminders, and creating 'set-it-and-forget-it systems' to make change more achievable. It emphasizes the importance of tailoring solutions to specific roadblocks and using science to stack the deck in favor of successful change.

Talking to Strangers

What We Should Know about the People We Don't Know

Malcolm Gladwell

In 'Talking to Strangers', Malcolm Gladwell delves into the challenges and misunderstandings that occur when we interact with people we do not know. The book explores various high-profile cases, such as the death of Sandra Bland, the deceptions of Bernie Madoff, and the interactions between Neville Chamberlain and Adolf Hitler. Gladwell argues that our default assumption to trust strangers until proven otherwise often leads to disastrous outcomes. He discusses the 'default to truth' theory and how our perceptions of strangers can be skewed by preconceived notions and stereotypes. The book provides insights into human psychology and communication, highlighting the importance of being aware of our assumptions when dealing with strangers.

Exit, Voice, and Loyalty

Responses to Decline in Firms, Organizations, and States

Albert O. Hirschman

In this influential book, Albert O. Hirschman explores how individuals and groups respond to decline in various organizations. He introduces the concepts of 'exit' (withdrawing from the organization), 'voice' (attempting to improve the organization through complaint or protest), and 'loyalty' (the factor that can influence the choice between exit and voice). Hirschman argues that these responses are interdependent and that understanding their interaction is crucial for addressing organizational decline. The book applies these concepts to a wide range of economic, social, and political phenomena, including consumer behavior, political parties, and personal relationships.

When police kill

Franklin E. Zimring

In *When Police Kill*, Franklin E. Zimring provides a detailed examination of police violence in America, using data from federal records and investigative journalism to understand the circumstances and consequences of police killings. The book highlights racial disparities and offers policy suggestions to reduce civilian deaths without compromising officer safety.

They Thought They Were Free

The Germans, 1933-45

Milton Sanford Mayer

In 'They Thought They Were Free,' Milton Sanford Mayer explores the lives of ten ordinary Germans during the Nazi regime, revealing how decent people became complicit in atrocities. The book examines the mechanisms of persuasion, conformity, and denial that allowed fascism to entwine itself with the German populace, serving as a timeless warning about the fragility of freedom and the dangers of complacency.

The Increasingly United States

How and Why American Political Behavior Nationalized

Daniel J. Hopkins

In *The Increasingly United States*, Daniel J. Hopkins examines how American political behavior has become more nationalized, contrasting with the federalist system's assumption that citizens would prioritize state and local allegiances. This shift profoundly affects voter representation and political polarization. Hopkins uses extensive quantitative and qualitative evidence to illustrate these changes and their impact on democracy.

The journalist and the murderer

Janet Malcolm

The book delves into the relationship between journalists and their subjects, using the case of Joe McGinniss and Dr. Jeffrey R. MacDonald as a central example. Malcolm argues that journalists often engage in a form of seduction and betrayal, gaining the trust of their subjects only to betray them in their writings. The case involves McGinniss's book 'Fatal Vision,' which portrayed MacDonald as a pathological liar and cold-blooded killer, despite McGinniss's initial pretense of supporting MacDonald's innocence. The book explores the broader implications of journalistic ethics and the power dynamics between journalists and their subjects.

The fall of heaven

Andrew Scott Cooper

The Fall of Heaven by Andrew Scott Cooper provides a detailed narrative of the events leading to the downfall of the Shah of Iran, focusing on the Pahlavi family and their role in modern Iranian history. The book offers a nuanced portrayal of the Shah and his reign, drawing from declassified documents and interviews with key figures from the period.

Malcolm Gladwell’s work is nothing short of an intellectual adventure.

Sometimes, as in his podcast Revisionist History, he takes something small and mundane — a hockey statistic, a semicolon, a verbal tic — and draws a broad, sweeping conclusion that shatters your worldview.

Other times, as in his new book Talking to Strangers, he takes something big and contentious — the death of Sandra Bland, the wrongful conviction of Amanda Knox, the ponzi scheme of Bernie Madoff — and produces insights that challenge conventional wisdom, leaving you wondering how you missed what he saw all along.

In either case, once you’ve experienced what Gladwell has to say, you can never see things in quite the same way again.

This conversation is an adventure of its own. We cover everything from the secrets behind Gladwell’s creative process to the basic social ingredient that undergirds all of modern society to the story of how an entire field office of the CIA got infiltrated by Cuban spies — and what that teaches us about human nature.

So, tune in and be a part of this adventure with us.

Books recommendations:

Exit, Voice, and Loyalty by Albert Hirschman

The Journalist and the Murderer by Janet Malcolm

The Fall of Heaven: The Pahlavis and the Final Days of Imperial Iran by Andrew Scott Cooper

Want to contact the show? Reach out at ezrakleinshow@vox.com

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