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Rutger Bregman’s utopias, and mine

Jul 22, 2019

Guest

Rutger Bregman

Join Rutger Bregman, a Dutch historian and journalist acclaimed for his work on utopian ideas, as he dives into radical concepts like universal basic income and a 15-hour work week. He challenges the notion of human selfishness, advocating for a shift towards optimism and trust in our societal systems. Bregman explores how these utopian visions can redefine the essence of work, elevate care value, and reshape perspectives on immigration. His insightful provocations encourage us to think boldly about a better future and what it truly means to be human.

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ANECDOTE

Bregman's Boring Life

Rutger Bregman lives in a boring place by choice to have a more exciting public life.
He believes millennials have exciting private lives, leading to less exciting public lives.

insights

INSIGHT

Historical Perspective on Change

Historically, most of humanity lived in poor conditions.
Bregman uses this to argue for a radical change, unlike Pinker who supports the current system.

insights

INSIGHT

Utopian Thinking

Utopian thinking helps unlock the future and is crucial for progress.
Every societal milestone was once a utopian fantasy.

Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode

Envisioning Utopia: The Power of Hope and Trust

01:37 • 20min

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Reimagining Work with Universal Basic Income

21:33 • 22min

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Exploring Keynes's Vision of a Shorter Work Week

43:20 • 4min

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Exploring Meaning and Creativity in a Future Art Landscape

47:32 • 2min

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Reimagining Work and Public Art

The Art of Immigration and Society

01:10:01 • 18min

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Influential Books Shaping Thought on Society and Innovation

01:27:50 • 2min

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Imagining a Broader Utopia

In 'Bullshit Jobs: A Theory', David Graeber argues that a significant portion of jobs in modern society are meaningless and contribute little to no value. He categorizes these jobs into five types: flunkies, goons, duct tapers, box tickers, and taskmasters. Graeber contends that these jobs are not only inefficient but also psychologically destructive, leading to chronic misery and social divisions. The book is based on his 2013 essay 'On the Phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs' and includes testimonials from workers who feel their jobs are pointless. Graeber suggests solutions such as unions and universal basic income to address the issue of meaningless work.

Utopia for Realists

The Case for a Universal Basic Income, Open Borders, and a 15-hour Workweek

Rutger Bregman

In *Utopia for Realists*, Rutger Bregman argues that visionary ideas, often considered utopian, can be implemented to create a more equitable and productive society. He advocates for a universal basic income, a shorter workweek of 15 hours, and open borders. Bregman supports these ideas with historical examples, such as Richard Nixon's proposed basic income and the successful Mincome project in Canada, as well as current data and academic studies. The book challenges conventional wisdom and encourages readers to dream big and strive for a better future.

How to Change

The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be

Katy Milkman

In this ground-breaking book, Katy Milkman reveals a proven path to help readers move from where they are to where they want to be. Drawing on her original research and the work of her world-renowned scientific collaborators, Milkman shares strategic methods for identifying and overcoming common barriers to change, such as impulsivity, procrastination, and forgetfulness. The book offers innovative approaches like 'temptation bundling,' using timely reminders, and creating 'set-it-and-forget-it systems' to make change more achievable. It emphasizes the importance of tailoring solutions to specific roadblocks and using science to stack the deck in favor of successful change.

Debt

The First 5,000 Years

David Graeber

In this book, David Graeber argues that debt has a much longer history than money and that it has played a central role in shaping human societies. He debunks the myth of barter as the precursor to money, instead proposing that credit systems and debt were the primary means of trade. Graeber examines how debt has been used as a tool for social control, influenced law, religion, and politics, and has led to periodic crises and debtor revolts throughout history. The book also discusses the moral and social implications of debt, suggesting that the concept of debt is more complex than a simple economic transaction.

GDP: A Brief but Affectionate History

Diane Coyle

The Lost Boys

Gina Perry

Gina Perry's book, 'The Lost Boys: Inside Muzafer Sherif's Robbers Cave Experiment', delves into the history and implications of Sherif's study. It critiques the experiment's methodology and ethics, highlighting how Sherif's personal biases influenced the results. The book also explores the long-term effects on the boys who participated, many of whom were unaware they were part of a psychological study until decades later.

Give People Money

Annie Lowrey

A paradise built in hell

the extraordinary communities and strange joys that arise in disasters

Emily Beresford

Rebecca Solnit

David Muñoz Mateos

In 'A Paradise Built in Hell', Rebecca Solnit examines how people respond to disasters and crises, often forming strong, resilient communities. The book delves into the human capacity for cooperation, altruism, and mutual aid during times of catastrophe, challenging the common narrative that disasters bring out the worst in people. Solnit draws on historical examples such as the 1906 San Francisco earthquake, the 1985 Mexico City earthquake, and Hurricane Katrina to illustrate these phenomena.

The entrepreneurial state

Debunking Public vs. Private Sector Myths

Mariana Mazzucato

, Sanjulián, Javier / Solé del Barrio

The Entrepreneurial State challenges the conventional wisdom that innovation is best left to the private sector. Mariana Mazzucato argues that the public sector has been the primary risk-taker in many significant technological innovations, from the Internet and GPS to touch-screen displays and voice recognition. She provides case studies to show how government investments have driven economic growth and suggests policies to ensure that both the public and private sectors share the risks and rewards of innovation. The book emphasizes the state's role in shaping and creating markets, rather than just fixing market failures.

The History of a Lie

Thibault Leclercq

No information available about this book.

Universal basic income. A 15-hour work week. Open borders.

These ideas may strike you as crazy, fantastical, maybe even utopian... but that’s exactly the point.

My guest today is Dutch historian Rutger Bregman, whose book Utopia for Realists is not only about utopian visions but about the importance of utopian thinking. Imagining utopia, he writes, “isn’t an attempt to predict the future. It’s an attempt to unlock the future. To fling open the windows of our minds.”

He’s right. And so this isn’t just a conversation about his utopia, or mine. It’s a conversation about how to think like a utopian, and why doing so matter most when the days feel particularly dystopic.

Citations:

The Lost Boys by Gina Perry

"Socially Useless Jobs" by Robert Dur and Max van Lent

"Economic Possibilities for our Grandchildren" by John Maynard Keynes

"I was a fast-food worker. Let me tell you about burnout." by Emily Guendelsberger

Book Recommendations:

Bullshit Jobs and Debt by David Graeber

A Paradise Built in Hell by Rebecca Solnit

The Entrepreneurial State by Mariana Mazzucato

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