Rutger Bregman, a Dutch historian and author, joins Scott to discuss his research from his book, “Humankind: A Hopeful History.” We learn about human nature, power dynamics, and his thoughts on Universal Basic Income. Follow Rutger on Twitter, @rcbregman. P.S. Scott is on holiday, so we’ll be back with our business analysis and Algebra of Happiness in September!  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dutch historian and De Correspondent writer Rutger Bregman got famous for the lashings he gave Tucker Carlson and the assembled plutocrats of Davos. But his work is far more utopian than polemical. The conversation we had on this show almost a year ago on his previous book Utopia for Realists is still one of my favorites.Bregman's new book, Humankind: A Hopeful History, is even more ambitious: it's an effort to establish that human beings, human nature, is kinder, friendlier, more decent, than we are given credit for. And that a new world could be built atop that understanding.I'm not convinced by everything in this book, to be honest. But that tension makes this conversation unusually generative. We discuss the deeply social, egalitarian lives of hunter-gatherers, whether the advent of human civilization was a huge mistake, and how our views toward religious faith have changed radically since our early 20s; and we debate whether humans have a nature at all, the implications of the Holocaust, whether we can build a society without CEOs, politicians, and bureaucrats, and moreBy the end, I'm still not sure I believe there is one human nature. But, I do think that if we believed Bregman's view of our nature, rather than, say, Donald Trump's view of our nature, maybe we could build something much more beautiful.Book recommendations:Affluence without Abundance by James SuzmanBehind the Shock Machine by Gina PerryThe Lost Boys by Gina PerryHow to Tame a Fox (and Build a Dog) by Lee Alan Dugatkin and Lyudmila TrutWant to contact the show? Reach out at ezrakleinshow@vox.comPlease consider making a contribution to Vox to support this show: bit.ly/givepodcasts Your support will help us keep having ambitious conversations about big ideas.New to the show? Want to check out Ezra’s favorite episodes? Check out the Ezra Klein Show beginner’s guide (http://bit.ly/EKSbeginhere)Credits:Producer/Editor - Jeff GeldResearcher - Roge Karma Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Historicus en auteur Rutger Bregman praat over morele ambitie, het oplossen van wereldproblemen, en het belang van collectieve actie. Hij benadrukt de impact van kleine groepen en het streven naar een zinvolle nalatenschap. Ook bespreekt hij het belang van duurzame alternatieven en een evenwicht tussen ouderschap en carrièredoelen.

Dutch historian Rutger Bregman argues that humans are wired for happiness, challenging prevailing views on human nature. He discusses the shift in scientific perspectives from cynicism to optimism, debunking the veneer theory and exploring our inherent decency. Bregman also examines the impact of beliefs on society, the trauma experienced by soldiers who resist aggression, and the importance of creating institutions based on trust and autonomy.

Historian and "Utopia for Realists" author Rutger Bregman makes the case for improving society by taxing the rich and providing a universal basic income. Originally aired March 2019. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.