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Huberman Lab
Dr. Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics for Treating Mental Disorders
Sep 20, 2021
02:49:19
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Quick takeaways
- Psychedelic compounds like psilocybin and LSD have shown potential in treating mental disorders such as depression and trauma by reshaping neural circuitry in the brain.
- Psychedelics can alter perception and expand consciousness, allowing for a deeper focus on sensory experiences and emotions.
- Psychedelic experiences can lead to profound changes in self-representation and identity, offering therapeutic benefits for conditions like depression, anxiety, and addiction.
- Integration and reflection after a psychedelic experience are crucial for processing and deriving meaning from the journey.
- Although microdosing psychedelics is popular, scientific evidence supporting its efficacy is limited, and excessive use can have cognitive and psychological side effects.
- Psychedelics have varied legal status globally, with growing interest in decriminalization and potential regulatory changes to allow for safe and controlled use.
Deep dives
Understanding the use of psychedelics for treating mental disorders
The podcast episode explores the potential use of psychedelic compounds in treating various mental disorders. It highlights the research conducted by Dr. Matthew Johnson, a psychiatrist at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, and his laboratory's understanding of how these compounds, such as psilocybin and LSD, can shape and change neural circuitry in the brain to combat diseases like depression and trauma.
Effects of psychedelics on human behavior and perception
The podcast discusses the different effects of psychedelics on human behavior and perception. It mentions that these compounds can alter the sense of reality, sense of self, and perception of time and space. The experience of taking psychedelics is described as expanding perception and allowing for a deeper focus on specific sensory experiences and emotions.
Therapeutic potential of psychedelics and self-representation
The podcast explores the therapeutic potential of psychedelics in reshaping self-representation and identity. It suggests that these experiences can lead to changes in the way individuals view themselves, their lives, and the world around them. By fostering a deeper understanding of the self and promoting a sense of agency, psychedelics may have lasting therapeutic effects in treating depression, anxiety, and addiction.
The importance of integration and reflection after a psychedelic experience
The podcast emphasizes the significance of integration and reflection after a psychedelic experience. It discusses the importance of processing the experience and writing about it as a form of reflection. Integration sessions with therapists are also highlighted, where individuals discuss their experiences and explore the potential implications and learnings from the psychedelic journey.
The potential risks of microdosing with psychedelics
Microdosing with psychedelics has gained popularity, but there is limited scientific evidence to support its efficacy. Some individuals claim that microdosing can enhance focus, creativity, and mood, but existing studies have not shown consistent or significant benefits. Moreover, these substances can have risks, especially if used frequently or at higher doses. Excessive microdosing can lead to impaired cognitive performance, heightened anxiety, and a mild sense of intoxication. Additionally, long-term effects and potential harm, especially on developing brains, have not been thoroughly studied.
Legality of psychedelics for therapeutic use and possession
The legal status of psychedelics varies depending on the country and jurisdiction. While some countries have legalized certain psychedelics for therapeutic or research purposes, most substances are still illegal. Possession, sale, and use of these compounds without a valid prescription can result in criminal charges. However, there is a growing movement to decriminalize or reschedule psychedelics, particularly for their potential therapeutic benefits.
Interest in psychedelics as investments
There is indeed increasing interest and investment in companies focused on psychedelics as potential therapeutics. Investors anticipate a shift in the legal status of these substances, which could open up new opportunities for research, development, and medical use. However, it is essential to consider the ethical and regulatory implications as the field continues to evolve.
The need for further research on psychedelics
While psychedelics show promise as potential therapeutics, more research is needed to fully understand their benefits, risks, and appropriate use. Studies on microdosing and its effects, particularly on young individuals, are scarce. The scientific community is actively exploring these areas to provide more evidence-based information and guidelines for safe and effective psychedelic use.
Decriminalization vs. Legalization of Psychedelics
There are varying levels of decriminalization and legalization when it comes to psychedelics. While some forms of decriminalization closely resemble legalization, others have minimal impact. Regardless, federally, psychedelics are classified as illegal substances, even though most drug enforcement occurs at the local and state level.
The Potential for Regulation of Psychedelics
There is a growing interest in regulating psychedelics, moving away from the current model of criminalization. However, it is unlikely to happen soon in the United States. The focus is on developing smart regulation to allow for safe and controlled use. This may involve obtaining licenses or training similar to a driver's license and providing public health information about the risks associated with various uses.
Exploring the Potential of Psychedelics in Treating Neurological Injuries
There is early exploratory research on the potential of psychedelics, specifically psilocybin, in treating neurological injuries such as traumatic brain injury and stroke. While the research is in its early stages, anecdotal evidence from individuals who have experienced cognitive improvements after using psychedelics and the neuroplasticity observed in preclinical studies suggest a potential for brain repair and recovery from these injuries.
This episode I discuss medical research on psychedelic compounds with Dr. Matthew Johnson, Professor of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine. We discuss the biology and medical clinical-trial uses of psilocybin, MDMA, ayahuasca, DMT, and LSD. Dr. Johnson teaches us what the clinical trials in his lab are revealing about the potential these compounds hold for the treatment of depression, addiction, trauma, eating disorders, ADHD, and other disorders of the mind. Dr. Johnson describes a typical psychedelic experiment in his laboratory, start to finish, including the conditions for optimal clinical outcomes. And he explains some of the potential hazards and common misconceptions and pitfalls related to psychedelic medicine. Dr. Johnson explains flashbacks, the heightened risks of certain people and age groups using psychedelics and the ever evolving legal and pharmaceutical industry landscape surrounding psychedelics. Dr. Johnson also explains how the scientific study of psychedelics is likely to set the trajectory of psychiatric medicine in the years to come. Dr. Johnson is among a small handful of researchers who have pioneered the clinical study of these powerful compounds. He has unprecedented insight into how they can be woven into other psychiatric treatments, changing ones sense of self and of reality.
For the full show notes, visit hubermanlab.com.
Thank you to our sponsors
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Timestamps
(00:00:00) Introducing Dr. Matthew Johnson
(00:02:27) Sponsors: AG1, LMNT
(00:06:40) ‘Psychedelics’ Defined
(00:14:09) Hallucinations, Synesthesia, Altered Space-Time Perception
(00:19:56) Serotonin & Dopamine
(00:23:50) Ketamine & Glutamate
(00:28:00) An Example Psychedelic Experiment
(00:37:30) ‘Letting Go’ with Psychedelics
(00:44:10) Our Mind’s Eye
(00:48:00) Redefining Your Sense of Self
(00:58:56) Exporting Psychedelic Learnings to Daily Life
(01:04:36) Flashbacks
(01:12:10) Ayahuasca, & ASMR, Kundalini Breathing
(01:15:54) MDMA, DMT
(01:26:00) Dangers of Psychedelics, Bad Trips, Long-Lasting Psychosis
(01:38:15) Micro-Dosing
(01:56:45) Risks for Kids, Adolescents & Teenagers; Future Clinical Trials
(02:03:40) Legal Status: Decriminalization vs. Legalization vs. Regulation
(02:18:35) Psychedelics for Treating Concussion & Traumatic Brain Injury
(02:27:45) Shifting Trends in Psychedelic Research, Academic Culture
(02:44:23) Participating in a Clinical Trial, Online Survey Studies, Breathwork
(02:50:38) Conclusions, Subscribing & Supporting the HLP, Supplements
Title Card Photo Credit: Mike Blabac
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