Sean Illing talks with psychologist Paul Bloom about his new book The Sweet Spot, and whether it's necessary to experience suffering in order to live a fulfilling, meaningful life. They discuss the rich philosophical history of the question: what does it mean to be happy? They also talk about why some people are drawn to scary movies, whether or not to plug in to the Matrix, and why a good paradigm for a well-lived life might be found in the example of... a stand-up comedian.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Paul Bloom (@paulbloomatyale), psychologist; author

References: 

• The Sweet Spot: The Pleasures of Suffering and the Search for Meaning by Paul Bloom (Ecco; 2021)
• The Twilight Zone, season 1, episode 28: "A Nice Place to Visit" (1960)
• "Masochism as escape from self" by Roy Baumeister (Journal of Sex Research, 25 (1); 1988)
• Anarchy, State, and Utopia by Robert Nozick (Basic Books; 1974); an excerpt on the "experience machine"
• "If you like it, does it matter if it's real?" by Felipe de Brigard (Philosophical Psychology, 23 (1); 2010)
• "High income improves evaluation of life but not emotional well-being" by Daniel Kahneman and Angus Deaton (PNAS; 2010)
• Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi (Harper Perennial Modern Classics; 1990)
• "What Becoming a Parent Really Does to Your Happiness" by Paul Bloom (Atlantic; Nov. 2)
• "A psychologically rich Life: Beyond happiness and meaning" by Shigehiro Oishi and Erin C. Westgate (Psychological Review; 2021)
• "Happiness: The Three Traditional Theories" by Martin E.P. Seligman and Ed Royzman (2003)
• Trying Not to Try: Ancient China, Modern Science, and the Power of Spontaneity by Edward Slingerland (Crown; 2015)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
• Vox Audio Fellow: Victoria Dominguez

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