The discussion centers on whether systems thinking is facing a similar fate as Agile, sparked by a controversial article. The hosts react passionately to the article, arguing that it mischaracterizes the true essence of systems thinking. They explore failed high-speed rail projects as vivid examples and clarify core principles like emergent properties and Gall's Law. The episode also includes Ed Brayden's response, promoting a good-faith debate about the misconceptions surrounding these methodologies. It's a thought-provoking take on a hot topic!
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insights INSIGHT
Systems Thinking Misrepresented
Jeffrey Fredrick argues Ed Brayden misrepresents systems thinking by attacking a straw-man version of it.
Systems thinking emphasizes emergent properties and caution with complex systems, not magical fixes.
question_answer ANECDOTE
High-Speed Rail As Example
Douglas Squirrel references UK and California high-speed rail as notorious failures used in the critique.
He notes those projects show neither systems thinking nor coherent planning have prevailed.
volunteer_activism ADVICE
Avoid Sprinkling Systems Thinking
Be cautious of simplistic 'sprinkles' of systems thinking applied to huge projects like high-speed rail.
Consider emergent behavior and avoid linear extrapolation when planning complex systems.
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Is “Systems Thinking is dead” the new “Agile is dead”? In this episode, we do a summary episode on what became a 4 episode series stemming from a disparaging article about systems thinking by Ed Braden. We react to the article, get Ed’s response and then - using a little help from Google Ai - offer successful examples of implementing systems in large government projects.
Links:
- Bradon's article: worksinprogress.co/issue/magical-systems-thinking/
- Bradon's self-responses on X: x.com/EdBradon/status/1966470317288616342
- Ed's reply on Twitter: x.com/EdBradon/status/1971266284990976361
- Gall's Law: www.driverlesscrocodile.com/processes-w…-galls-law/
Shape Up episodes:
Ryan Singer on Basecamp and Shape Up, Part I
https://soundcloud.com/troubleshootingagile/ryan-singer-on-basecamp-and-shape-up-part-i
Ryan Singer on Basecamp and Shape Up, Part II
https://soundcloud.com/troubleshootingagile/ryan-singer-on-basecamp-and-shape-up-part-ii
Ryan Singer on Basecamp and Shape Up, Part II
https://soundcloud.com/troubleshootingagile/ryan-singer-on-basecamp-and-shape-up-part-iii
Full episodes on this topic:
Someone is wrong on the internet about systems thinking! https://soundcloud.com/troubleshootingagile/someone-is-wrong-on-the-internet-about-systems-thinking
Systems Thinking rant redux, Part I https://soundcloud.com/troubleshootingagile/systems-thinking-rant-redux-part-i
Systems Thinking rant redux, Part II https://soundcloud.com/troubleshootingagile/systems-thinking-rant-redux-part-ii
Systems Thinking rant redux, Part III
https://soundcloud.com/troubleshootingagile/systems-thinking-rant-redux-part-iii
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You'll find free videos and practice material, plus our book Agile Conversations, at agileconversations.com
And we'd love to hear any thoughts, ideas, or feedback you have about the show: email us at info@agileconversations.com
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About Your Hosts
Douglas Squirrel and Jeffrey Fredrick joined forces at TIM Group in 2013, where they studied and practised the art of management through difficult conversations. Over a decade later, they remain united in their passion for growing profitable organisations through better communication.
Squirrel is an advisor, author, keynote speaker, coach, and consultant, and he's helped over 300 companies of all sizes make huge, profitable improvements in their culture, skills, and processes.
You can find out more about his work here: douglassquirrel.com/index.html
Jeffrey is Vice President of Engineering at ION Analytics, Organiser at CITCON, the Continuous Integration and Testing Conference, and is an accomplished author and speaker. You can connect with him here: www.linkedin.com/in/jfredrick/
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