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The engineering mindset | Will Larson (Carta, Stripe, Uber, Calm, Digg)

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Jan 7, 2024

Guest

Will Larson

Will Larson, CTO at Carta and former leader at Calm, Stripe, Uber, and Digg, shares his vast experience in engineering management. He emphasizes treating engineers as peers to boost productivity and discusses the importance of systems thinking in recruitment. Larson offers practical advice for product managers on fostering collaboration with engineers. He also touches on the impact of writing on his career and the balance between writing and a demanding job while exploring how to authentically define company values through adversity.

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INSIGHT

Changing Engineering Landscape

The engineering market has shifted from constant growth to needing leaders who can handle consolidation and layoffs.
Engineering managers now need to demonstrate broader competencies beyond just hiring.

insights

INSIGHT

Treat Engineers Like Adults

Treating engineers like adults with responsibilities is better than coddling them.
This allows engineers to grow and take on senior leadership roles.

question_answer

ANECDOTE

Systems Thinking Overemphasis

At Stripe, Will Larson's team focused too much on incident analysis and not enough on improvements.
This highlights the risk of over-relying on systems thinking without taking action.

Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode

Navigating Modern Engineering Dynamics

03:47 • 13min

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Crafting Effective Engineering Strategies

16:23 • 10min

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The Power of Authentic Writing

26:49 • 3min

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The Importance of Passion in Content Creation

29:58 • 3min

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Navigating the Landscape of Content Creation

33:26 • 22min

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Defining Company Values and Lessons from Adversity

55:43 • 15min

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Navigating Engineering Leadership

01:11:07 • 6min

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Power the Future and Accelerate Your Organization to the Modern Cloud

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David Anderson

Michael O'Reilly

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Technology Strategy Patterns

Not Available

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No specific information available about this book. Evan Bottcher is associated with discussions on platform engineering and team topologies.

This book explores the role of a Staff Engineer, providing insights into leadership, career growth, and strategic thinking without following the management track. It includes interviews with experienced Staff Engineers and offers practical advice on achieving and succeeding in this role.

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This book introduces readers to systems thinking, a critical skill for 21st-century life. It explains how to understand and interact with complex systems, highlighting the importance of internal system structures and feedback loops. The book is divided into sections on system structures and behavior, the relationship between systems and humans, and strategies for creating change within systems. It aims to help readers develop a deeper understanding of systems to address global issues such as climate change, poverty, and social inequalities.

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An Elegant Puzzle is a comprehensive guide to engineering management, particularly in high-growth environments. The book, written by Will Larson, draws on his extensive experience at companies like Digg, Uber, and Stripe. It addresses specific challenges such as managing technical debt, handling migrations, and developing succession planning. Larson's approach emphasizes systems thinking, providing actionable templates and strategies for building healthy and productive engineering teams. The book is valuable not only for engineering managers but also for product managers and engineers working in similar environments.

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Nicole Forsgren

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Accelerate presents the findings from four years of research, including data from the State of DevOps reports, to identify key capabilities that drive high performance in software delivery. The book focuses on 24 practices grouped into five categories: Continuous Delivery, Architecture, Product and Process, Lean Management and Monitoring, and Cultural. It provides practical guidance on how to apply these practices to improve team performance, reduce deployment pain, and enhance overall business value. The book is ideal for management at every level involved in digital transformation and software development.

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Will Larson

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Silent Spring

Rachel Carson

Published in 1962, 'Silent Spring' by Rachel Carson is a seminal work in environmental science. The book documents the harmful effects of DDT and other pesticides on the environment, including their impact on bird populations, other wildlife, and human health. Carson argued that these substances should be called 'biocides' due to their broad impact on ecosystems. The book was serialized in 'The New Yorker' before its full publication and generated significant public and scientific debate. It led to a reversal in U.S. pesticide policy, the banning of DDT for agricultural use in 1972, and the establishment of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency in 1970. Carson's work challenged the prevailing attitudes towards scientific progress and human control over nature, advocating for responsible and careful use of pesticides and highlighting the need for environmental stewardship.

Will Larson is Chief Technology Officer at Carta. Prior to joining Carta, he was the CTO at Calm and held engineering leadership roles at Stripe, Uber, and Digg. He is the author of two foundational engineering career books, An Elegant Puzzle and Staff Engineer, and The Engineering Executive’s Primer, which will be released in February. In our conversation, we discuss:

• Systems thinking: what it is and how to apply it

• Advice for product managers on fostering productive relationships with engineering managers

• Why companies should treat engineers like adults

• How to best measure developer productivity

• Writing and its impact on his career

• How to balance writing with a demanding job

• How to develop your company values

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Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-engineering-mindset-will-larson

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Where to find Will Larson:

• X: https://twitter.com/Lethain

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/will-larson-a44b543/

• Website: https://lethain.com/

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Will’s background

(04:12) Changes in the field of engineering

(06:27) We need to stop treating engineers like children

(08:32) Systems thinking

(13:23) Implementing systems thinking in hiring

(16:32) Engineering strategy

(20:21) Examples of engineering strategies

(25:08) How to get good at strategy

(26:48) The importance of writing about things that excite you

(32:40) The biggest risk to content creation is quitting too soon

(35:24) How to make time for writing

(37:41) Tips for aspiring writers

(41:18) Building productive relationships between product managers and engineers

(43:45) Giving the same performance rating to EMs and PMs

(48:24) Measuring engineering productivity

(55:53) Defining company values

(01:02:10) Failure corner: the Digg rewrite

(01:11:05) Will’s upcoming book, The Engineering Executive’s Primer

(01:12:04) Lightning round

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Referenced:

• The end of the “free money” era: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/apr/11/techscape-zirp-tech-boom

• Work on what matters: https://lethain.com/work-on-what-matters/

• Sheryl Sandberg to Harvard Biz Grads: “Find a Rocket Ship”: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/05/24/sheryl-sandberg-to-harvard-biz-grads-find-a-rocket-ship/?sh=708c9a93b37a

• What Is Systems Thinking?: https://www.snhu.edu/about-us/newsroom/business/what-is-systems-thinking

• Introduction to systems thinking: https://lethain.com/systems-thinking/

• Thinking in Systems: https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Systems-Donella-H-Meadows/dp/1603580557

• Silent Spring: https://www.amazon.com/Silent-Spring-Rachel-Carson/dp/0618249060

• Writing an engineering strategy: https://lethain.com/eng-strategies/

• Carta: https://carta.com/

• Eric Vogl on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ericvogl/

• Good Strategy/Bad Strategy: The difference and why it matters: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Strategy-Bad-difference-matters/dp/1781256179

• The Crux: How Leaders Become Strategists: https://www.amazon.com/Crux-How-Leaders-Become-Strategists/dp/1541701240/

• How Big Things Get Done: The Surprising Factors That Determine the Fate of Every Project, from Home Renovations to Space Exploration and Everything in Between: https://www.amazon.com/How-Big-Things-Get-Done/dp/0593239512/

• Technology Strategy Patterns: Architecture as Strategy: https://www.amazon.com/Technology-Strategy-Patterns-Architecture/dp/1492040878/

• The Value Flywheel Effect: Power the Future and Accelerate Your Organization to the Modern Cloud: https://www.amazon.com/Value-Flywheel-Effect-Accelerate-Organization/dp/1950508579

• The Phoenix Project: A Novel about IT, DevOps, and Helping Your Business Win: https://www.amazon.com/Phoenix-Project-DevOps-Helping-Business/dp/1942788290

• The Engineering Executive’s Primer: Impactful Technical Leadership: https://www.amazon.com/Engineering-Executives-Primer-Impactful-Leadership/dp/1098149483

• An Elegant Puzzle: Systems of Engineering Management: https://press.stripe.com/an-elegant-puzzle

• Staff Engineer: Leadership beyond the management track: https://www.amazon.com/Staff-Engineer-Leadership-beyond-management-ebook/dp/B08RMSHYGG

• Gergely Orosz’s newsletter: https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/author/gergely/

• Leaving big tech to build the #1 technology newsletter | Gergely Orosz (The Pragmatic Engineer): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/videos/leaving-big-tech-to-build-the-1-technology-newsletter-gergely-orosz-the-pragmatic-engineer/

• The art of product management | Shreyas Doshi (Stripe, Twitter, Google, Yahoo): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/videos/the-art-of-product-management-shreyas-doshi-stripe-twitter-google-yahoo/

• Henry Ward on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heward/

• Vrushali Paunikar on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vrushali-paunikar/

• Accelerate: The Science of Lean Software and DevOps: Building and Scaling High Performing Technology Organizations: https://www.amazon.com/Accelerate-Software-Performing-Technology-Organizations/dp/1942788339

• How to measure and improve developer productivity | Nicole Forsgren (Microsoft Research, GitHub, Google): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-measure-and-improve-developer-productivity-nicole-forsgren-microsoft-research-github-goo/

• DORA: https://dora.dev/

• Setting engineering org values: https://lethain.com/setting-engineering-org-values/

• Digg: https://digg.com/

• Kevin Rose on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinrose/

• Digg’s v4 launch: an optimism born of necessity: https://lethain.com/digg-v4/

• Dash Gopinath on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dashgopinath/

• Rich Schumacher on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richschumacher/

• The ALL NEW Don’t Think of an Elephant!: Know Your Values and Frame the Debate: https://www.amazon.com/ALL-NEW-Dont-Think-Elephant-ebook/dp/B00NP9LHFA

• Top Chef on Peacock: https://www.peacocktv.com/watch-online/tv/top-chef/5172289448907967112

• Hard to work with: https://lethain.com/hard-to-work-with/

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

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