The Tim Ferriss Show
#711: Andrew Rosener — Becoming The Hokkaido Scallop King, Leasing Blue Chip URLs, Life Tenets from Charlie Tuna, Selling 8-Figure Domains, and More
Episode guests
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Quick takeaways
- Media Options, founded in 2008, became the #1 domain broker in the world.
- Valuing domains requires instinct and data-driven research, aided by tools and forums.
- Building connections with domain investors and selling their domains led to success.
- Moving to Panama provided a favorable environment for starting the business.
- Contentment is prioritized over constant happiness, emphasizing uniqueness and greatness.
- Domain names remain crucial despite emerging technologies like AI and decentralized internet.
Deep dives
Starting a Domain Brokerage Business
In 2008, the speaker started a domain brokerage business called Media Options. The business aimed to connect domain investors with potential buyers and educate the broader business market about the value of domain names. They focused on selling domains registered prior to 2000 and had an influx of people looking to sell their domains. They used commissions from these sales to fund the acquisition of better domain names. Forums and industry news outlets were key in connecting with both buyers and sellers in the domain industry.
Determining Domain Value
Valuing domains can be challenging, but the speaker relied on his instinct and data-driven research to determine a fair price. There were tools available to gauge the total addressable market for domains and forums played a role in building connections. Domains with type-in traffic or keyword-rich domains often drew interest. While there were still some bad actors squatting on domains, the industry had mechanisms like UDRP to prevent trademark infringement. The speaker's success in selling domains, including pizza.net, gave him confidence in building Media Options as a domain brokerage business.
Growing the Business and Finding Clients
The speaker started the business during a time when most low-hanging fruit had been taken, but he found success in connecting with domain investors and selling their domains. Most people looking to sell their domains actively reached out to the speaker, recognizing his expertise and ability to connect them with potential buyers. Forums, social media, and industry news outlets played a role in building visibility for Media Options. The speaker had a daily mantra of making $250 profit to sustain the business financially during the early years.
Moving to Panama and Business Strategy
The decision to move to Panama was influenced by a desire to escape negative news and create a more positive environment for launching the business. The speaker and his wife wanted to avoid the recession and thought Germany would be similar to the US. They wanted to escape the bitter cold and sought a change of scenery. Panama provided a more favorable environment for starting their business and finding new opportunities.
Contentment as the Pursuit of Happiness
Andrew Rosen believes in pursuing contentment rather than happiness. He sees contentment as wanting what you have and being grateful. For him, contentment is about being a generally content person, focusing on novelty and pursuing unique characteristics that make you you. He emphasizes the importance of pursuing greatness, standing out, and avoiding the norm. Andrew acknowledges that life involves friction, pain, and suffering, but through these challenges, one can achieve love, build successful businesses, and create meaningful art.
The Significance of Domain Names
Andrew Rosen recognizes the continued importance of domain names in the digital world. He believes that domain names are the foundational layer upon which everything else is built. Despite the emergence of new technologies like AI and decentralized internet, Andrew argues that domain names remain crucial for identity verification, finance, and as a unique identifier for individuals and organizations. He predicts that in the future, people may have multiple domain names, and he highlights the significance of semantically meaningful domain names and the ability to use domain names as wallets.
The Impact of AI on the Internet
Andrew Rosen discusses the potential impact of AI on the internet. While AI tools like ChatGPT and BART can provide different search results and summaries compared to traditional search engines like Google, Andrew believes that their use will not replace the need for domain names. He suggests that AI tools will affect the SEO game, but domain names will remain essential for identifying people and businesses online. He also raises concerns about the potential confusion and fragmentation that can arise from the proliferation of different blockchain-based domain name services.
The Pursuit of Novelty and Overcoming Challenges
Andrew Rosen advocates for pursuing novelty and embracing challenges. He believes that the purpose of individual lives is to explore new ideas, engage with the world in unique ways, and create novelty. Andrew highlights the significance of pain, suffering, and hard work in achieving meaningful outcomes, such as building successful businesses, maintaining relationships, and creating art. He argues that avoiding pain and seeking constant happiness can hinder personal and creative growth, and emphasizes the importance of leaning into challenges and embracing the idea of contentment rather than constant happiness.
The Value of Sitting with Pain and Embracing Novelty
The podcast episode explores the concept of embracing pain and the value of novelty in achieving success. The speaker emphasizes the importance of facing challenges and doing things that others are afraid or unwilling to do. He suggests that greatness is achieved through novelty and that all successful individuals have achieved their goals by going beyond their comfort zones. The episode mentions examples such as going through ridicule, enduring suffering, and facing heartache as the dark aspects that often separate success from mediocrity.
Balancing Pain Tolerance and Pursuing Worthwhile Goals
The episode delves into the topic of balancing pain tolerance and pursuing worthwhile goals. The speaker shares personal experiences and discusses the fine line between embracing pain as a necessary cost for achieving novelty and pursuing painful endeavors that are not worth the effort. He emphasizes the importance of having a clear North Star and optimizing for one's desired lifestyle and freedom. The episode mentions the speaker's own decision to abandon a potentially lucrative business venture because it did not align with his definition of success and freedom.
Understanding the Value of Domain Names for Business Success
The episode shifts to a discussion about the value of domain names for business success. The speaker explains a valuation methodology for domain names based on their ability to reduce the cost of customer acquisition. He highlights the importance of owning a domain name that matches the brand or has clear intent, as it increases click-through rates and conversion rates, ultimately reducing customer acquisition costs. The episode includes examples of successful businesses and entrepreneurs who have recognized the power of domain names, including Jeff Bezos' strategic purchase of prime.com.
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Andrew Rosener (@andrewrosener) is the founder and CEO of MediaOptions, which has been the #1 domain broker in the world for the last six consecutive years. Since 2008, Andrew has been involved in more than $600 million dollars in domain sales and has played a pivotal role in numerous high-profile domain-name transactions, including X.com to Elon Musk, Zoom.com to Zoom, and Prime.com and Podcast.com to Amazon, as well as thousands of others.
Andrew is an inductee of the Domain Name Hall of Fame; he was named Domain Investor of the Year by TRAFFIC; and he is the creator of the Rosener Equation, a formula for objectively valuing domain names, widely adopted by the industry.
Andrew is also the owner of DomainSherpa.com, the industry’s leading educational podcast.
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[00:00] Start
[07:06] Who is Charlie Tuna, and what are his tenets?
[30:11] Presidential ham and the value of owning coveted domains.
[34:35] Tess Diaz enters the picture.
[39:25] A domain industry overview.
[43:14] Domain investors vs. domain squatters.
[46:21] Getting a late start in the game.
[50:16] Brokering the sale of pizza.net.
[56:50] Why relocate to Panama in the midst of building a business that needed to make $250 per day?
[1:00:40] Leasing vs. buying a domain as a startup.
[1:10:36] Leasing vs. selling a domain as a holder.
[1:13:42] How important is securing your brand as a .com?
[1:15:50] Negotiating equity in lieu of cash.
[1:19:35] Are we in the early stages of a digital real estate boom?
[1:22:03] Why did Andrew buy Fuckyourself.com?
[1:25:29] Anger management.
[1:31:18] Email management.
[1:33:57] How will AI affect the domain industry and SEO business?
[1:39:53] Alternative uses for domains.
[1:48:35] Finding Andrew and his projects online.
[1:49:28] Pursuit of happiness.
[1:55:08] Avoiding attraction to unnecessary pain.
[2:03:13] Three most important influences.
[2:06:05] Parting thoughts.
[2:08:15] Hunting bigger fish.
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