#119 - Terry Real: Breaking the cycle of shame, anger, and depression
Jul 13, 2020
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Terry Real, a renowned family therapist and best-selling author, shares insights from his journey shaped by an abusive upbringing. He connects childhood trauma to deep-seated shame and anger, emphasizing the urgent need for emotional healing. Real discusses the transformative power of his Relational Life Therapy, explaining how to confront and break the cycle of pain. He highlights the importance of understanding familial dynamics, empowers emotional vulnerability in men, and challenges patriarchal structures for healthier relationships.
The negative impact of traditional gender roles on both men and women contributes to dysfunctional relationships and prevents healthy emotional connections.
Male depression is often hidden and underdiagnosed, with covert depression manifesting as anger, addiction, or sexual acting out; overcoming shame and seeking support is crucial.
Narcissism is a disorder of too little self-love rather than too much, leading to a lack of empathy and negative impact on relationships; healthy self-esteem based on compassion and connection is essential.
Deep dives
Recognizing the harmful effects of patriarchal gender roles
The podcast episode discusses the negative impact of traditional gender roles on both men and women. Men are taught to deny vulnerability and adopt a delusion of dominance, leading to shame and grandiocity. Women, on the other hand, are expected to be accommodating and resentful, losing their voice and resorting to manipulative behavior. These gender roles contribute to dysfunctional relationships and prevent healthy emotional connections.
Understanding the hidden epidemic of male depression
The episode sheds light on the hidden nature of male depression. Men are often ashamed to seek help and suffer silently, resulting in the underdiagnosis and undertreatment of depression in men. Covert depression manifests as anger, addiction, or sexual acting out as a defense mechanism. The link between shame and depression is explored, highlighting the importance of overcoming shame and seeking support.
Exploring the destructive nature of narcissism
The podcast delves into the misconceptions surrounding narcissism, highlighting that it is a disorder of too little self-love rather than too much. Narcissists are addicted to their self-image rather than their true selves and often lack empathy. The negative impact of narcissism on relationships is discussed, as well as the need for individuals to move away from grandiosity and towards healthy self-esteem based on compassion and connection.
Learning to deconstruct patriarchy and live relationally
The importance of deconstructing patriarchal norms and living relationally is emphasized in the episode. It is revealed that traditional masculinity promotes shame, the denial of vulnerability, and the delusion of dominance. The narrative of power with rather than power over is advocated, fostering empathy, compassion, and healthier emotional connections. The process of recognizing and overcoming harmful ingrained beliefs and behaviors is highlighted as a way to lead a more fulfilling and satisfying life.
The Three Phases of Relational Therapy
Relational therapy, as described by the speaker, involves three phases. The first phase is loving confrontation, where individuals are confronted with their negative behavior and its consequences. The second phase is family of origin, exploring where these behaviors were learned or experienced in childhood. The third phase is teaching, where individuals learn and practice new, healthier skills for relationships.
Transformation through Relational Therapy
The speaker draws a parallel between the transformation of the character Scrooge in the story 'A Christmas Carol' and the transformation that individuals experience through relational therapy. By facing the negative consequences of their actions, understanding the root causes in their family of origin, and learning new relationship skills, individuals can undergo profound change. The process of transformation in therapy takes time and commitment, but can lead to significant personal growth and healthier relationships.
Terry Real, a renowned family therapist and best-selling author, helps people create the connections they desire in their relationships. In this episode, Terry describes how his upbringing with an abusive father forged his path to become a therapist, develop his Relational Life Therapy (RLT) framework, and write I Don't Want to Talk About It—a book that reveals the hidden legacy of male depression. Terry discusses the link between childhood trauma and the deep-rooted shame, anger, and depression, which can result in feeling disconnected. Using real-life examples, Terry explains how he implements RLT to confront trauma, discover its origin, and teach the skills to break the cycle of pain, in order to live a satisfying life.
We discuss:
Terry’s upbringing with a depressed and abusive father [3:15];
The importance of the repair process, after relational disharmony, to break the trauma cycle [15:15];
The impact of a patriarchal society, and relational growth as the next step for feminism [19:00];
Origins of deep-rooted shame, and the difference between feeling ashamed and feeling guilty [27:15];
Preventing the propagation of trauma without over-coddling kids [35:30];
The one-up/one-down cycle from grandiosity to shame [37:30];
Covert depression—Steps to fixing the secret legacy of male depression [40:00];
Three forms of false self-esteem [50:00];
Narcissism—A misunderstood concept [51:45];
The interplay of shame, anger, and grandiosity, and how to break the cycle [54:15];
The Relational Life Therapy framework [1:06:30];
How the adaptive child becomes the maladaptive adult [1:15:30];
Speaking the language of social relationships [1:21:45];
When does it make sense for a couple to separate? [1:26:30];
Witness abuse—Consequences of screaming at your partner in the presence of children [1:28:15];
Cases of instantaneous change, and other behavioral changes that may take more time [1:30:45];
Reconciling with his father—Terry’s final conversation with his dad [1:33:45]; and
