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The woman behind Canva shares how she built a $42B company from nothing | Melanie Perkins

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Nov 2, 2025

Guest

Melanie Perkins

Melanie Perkins, Co-CEO and co-founder of Canva, transformed a dream into a $42 billion reality despite facing over 100 investor rejections and a challenging two-year technical rewrite. She discusses her unique 'column B' thinking, which focuses on bold visions rather than limitations. Listeners learn about the importance of setting 'crazy big goals,' maintaining team morale during tough times, and her strategic approach to fundraising. Melanie’s forward-looking vision for 2050 emphasizes the power of imagination to inspire positive change.

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Episode notes

00:00 / 00:00

Build From A Moonshot Vision

Column B thinking means imagining a radical future and working backward to build it rather than optimizing with today's constraints.
Start with a moonshot vision and climb a ladder of tiny, compounding steps toward it.

00:00 / 00:00

Start With A 10-Year Vision

Spend dedicated time imagining wild success and terrible failure for a 10-year horizon to clarify the future you want.
Then pick the smallest first step and keep taking tiny, aligned steps that compound over time.

00:00 / 00:00

Chaos To Clarity Process

Move ideas from "chaos to clarity" by writing them down, pitching, prototyping, and iterating until others can see them.
Visual artifacts (decks, prototypes) turn private imagination into shared reality.

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What is column B thinking and how it shaped Canva

04:49 • 3min

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How to practically build a 'column B' company

08:17 • 4min

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From chaos to clarity: using vision decks to start projects

12:05 • 3min

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Why 'crazy big goals' power long-term focus

15:01 • 4min

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Breaking big goals into annual, measurable steps

18:32 • 2min

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Celebrating milestones to sustain momentum

20:19 • 2min

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When growth breaks systems: scaling challenges and rituals

21:53 • 2min

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Surviving a two-year rewrite without shipping product

23:39 • 2min

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How Canva managed team morale during long technical work

25:17 • 1min

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Pitching investors: iterating through 100 rejections

26:31 • 3min

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How feedback shaped Canva's fundraising narrative

29:10 • 38sec

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Fundraising advice: control what you can and find your tribe

29:48 • 1min

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Leadership evolution: giving away hats and staying authentic

31:11 • 4min

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Canva's mission-driven structure and goal-driven culture

34:48 • 60sec

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Why slowing down and protecting focus matters

35:48 • 2min

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Closing the loop with community-driven product ideas

38:17 • 2min

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Tactics for user testing and gathering actionable feedback

40:32 • 12sec

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Canva's two-step plan: build value then do good

40:44 • 3min

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How Canva channels wealth into poverty relief and education

43:17 • 2min

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Major product expansions and the 'design anything' vision

45:11 • 2min

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Canva's product footprint: creativity and productivity convergence

47:13 • 3min

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Finding an early wedge: solving real, recurring pain points

50:39 • 2min

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Philosophy for integrating AI into product

52:43 • 1min

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Practical personal uses of AI and 'AI walks'

54:03 • 1min

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Creating a 2050 vision board to steer decisions

55:30 • 5min

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Why collective imagination matters for large societal goals

How listeners can help: use, teach, and pledge 1%

Designing the Obvious

Hoekman, Robert, Jr.

Designing the Obvious explores the character traits of great web applications and uses them as guiding principles for application design to ensure customer satisfaction and loyalty. The book emphasizes building only what is necessary, helping users get up to speed quickly, preventing and handling errors, and designing for the activity. It does not prescribe a fixed development process but offers practical advice to consistently achieve high-quality web-based applications. The second edition updates examples for modern web design and adds chapters on strategy and persuasion.

#106

• Mentioned in 129 episodes

The Lean Startup

Eric Ries

The Lean Startup introduces a revolutionary approach to building and scaling businesses, emphasizing continuous innovation, customer feedback, and scientific experimentation. Eric Ries defines a startup as an organization dedicated to creating something new under conditions of extreme uncertainty. The book advocates for 'validated learning,' rapid experimentation, and the Build-Measure-Learn feedback loop to shorten product development cycles and measure actual progress. It also stresses the importance of pivoting or persevering based on data and customer needs, making it an essential read for anyone involved in starting or growing a business.

#698

• Mentioned in 35 episodes

The Power of Moments

Chip Heath

Dan Heath

In this book, Chip and Dan Heath explore why certain brief experiences can have a profound impact on our lives. They argue that our most memorable positive moments are dominated by four elements: elevation, insight, pride, and connection. The authors provide practical advice and numerous examples on how to engineer these moments, whether in professional settings, educational environments, or personal life. The book delves into the psychology behind why we remember certain experiences and how we can intentionally create more meaningful moments rather than leaving them to chance.

#185

• Mentioned in 89 episodes

Creativity, Inc.

Overcoming the Unseen Forces That Stand in the Way of True Inspiration

Amy Wallace

Ed Catmull

Ed Catmull and Edwin E. Catmull and Amy Wallace

In this book, Ed Catmull shares insights on how to build and maintain a creative culture within an organization. Drawing from his experiences at Pixar, Catmull discusses the importance of open communication, risk-taking, and protecting the creative process. The book includes candid discussions, anecdotes about Pixar's film development, and lessons on managing innovation and creativity. It emphasizes the need for a nurturing work environment and the importance of storytelling in business.

Melanie Perkins is CEO and co-founder of Canva, currently valued at over $42 billion, generating over $3 billion in annual revenue, with more than 240 million monthly active users and, incredibly, eight consecutive years of profitability. But the journey was far from smooth. Melanie was rejected by over 100 investors during her first fundraising round, her team spent two years without being able to ship a new feature during a technical rewrite, and the company pivoted early from a yearbook publishing platform to become the design powerhouse it is today. Through it all, she maintained what she calls “column B” thinking: building toward a dream future rather than just using the bricks around you.

We discuss:

1. How “column B” thinking helped Melanie build Canva, by starting with an impossible vision rather than existing constraints

2. The power of setting “crazy big goals”

3. How Canva survived a painful two-year period without shipping any new features while rewriting their codebase

4. How Melanie pushed through 100 investor rejections, and how she used each rejection to strengthen her pitch

5. Canva’s “two-step plan”: build one of the world’s most valuable companies, then do the most good possible

6. Melanie’s vision for 2050 and why she believes imagination is the first step toward a better world

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Transcript: ⁠https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-making-of-canva⁠⁠

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My biggest takeaways (for paid newsletter subscribers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/176082995/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversation

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Where to find Melanie Perkins:

• X: https://x.com/melaniecanva

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melanieperkins/

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Introduction to Melanie Perkins and Canva

(04:44) Building a “column B” company

(06:36) Operationalizing big visions

(13:13) Crazy big goals and celebrations

(22:00) Challenges and setbacks in Canva’s journey

(26:30) Fundraising and investor rejections

(29:36) Leadership and growth lessons

(34:38) Canva’s goal-driven structure

(35:46) Balancing work and personal life

(38:02) Community-driven product development

(40:37) The two-step plan for global impact

(45:04) Canva’s biggest launch yet

(48:10) How Canva approaches product expansion

(52:37) AI integration in Canva

(53:56) AI corner

(55:22) Melanie’s vision for 2050 and beyond

(01:00:07) Lightning round and final thoughts

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Referenced:

• Canva: https://www.canva.com/

• Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach

• Building high-performing teams | Melissa Tan (Webflow, Dropbox, Canva): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-high-performing-teams-melissa

• UserTesting: https://www.usertesting.com/

• Figma: https://www.figma.com/

• Adobe: https://www.adobe.com/

• Calm: https://www.calm.com/

• Gandhi’s quote about happiness: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/mahatma_gandhi_105593

• Help us improve Canva: https://www.canva.com/help/get-in-touch/general-feedback/

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Recommended books:

• Creativity, Inc.: Overcoming the Unseen Forces That Stand in the Way of True Inspiration: https://www.amazon.com/Creativity-Inc-Expanded-Overcoming-Inspiration/dp/0593594649/

• The Lean Startup: How Today’s Entrepreneurs Use Continuous Innovation to Create Radically Successful Businesses: https://www.amazon.com/Lean-Startup-Entrepreneurs-Continuous-Innovation/dp/0307887898/

• The Power of Moments: Why Certain Experiences Have Extraordinary Impact: https://www.amazon.com/Power-Moments-Certain-Experiences-Extraordinary/dp/1501147765

• Designing the Obvious: A Common Sense Approach to Web and Mobile Application Design: https://www.amazon.com/Designing-Obvious-Common-Approach-Application/dp/0321749855

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

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