In this transformative book, Terrence Real addresses the impact of toxic individualism on intimate relationships. He provides a science-backed skillset to help couples overcome repetitive fights and distant relationships by fostering a culture of compassion, collaboration, and closeness. Real shares stories of couples whose relationships have been saved through these skills and discusses the broader cultural context that reinforces relationship dysfunction. The book is praised for its insightful and practical advice, making it a valuable resource for those seeking true intimacy.
Terry Real's "I Don't Want to Talk About It" explores the hidden epidemic of depression in men, connecting it to societal expectations of masculinity and emotional repression. The book delves into the roots of male depression, often tracing them back to childhood experiences and the impact of traditional gender roles. Real challenges the notion of stoicism and encourages men to embrace vulnerability and emotional expression. He provides practical strategies for men to address their emotional struggles and build healthier relationships. The book's impact lies in its ability to validate the experiences of men struggling with depression and offer a path towards healing and connection.
In this book, Terrence Real presents a revolutionary approach to modern marriage, highlighting the changes in women's roles and the need for men to adapt. Real provides practical strategies and exercises to help women identify and articulate their needs, listen well, set limits, and appreciate what they have. The book aims to help couples achieve profound emotional closeness and fulfill the vision of having lifelong friends and lovers. Real draws on his extensive experience helping thousands of couples shift from despair to intimacy.
My guest on this episode of the podcast is eminent couples therapist Terry Real, who is the author of various bestselling books on relationships and a great audio-only book, Fierce Intimacy, that I recommend to people all the time if they want a highly efficient rhetorical punch to the gut to change their lives for the better.
Terry was also, briefly, my couples therapist. I wrote about this at great length in The New York Times Magazine, and then wrote a little bit more about it here on the Substack. He did eight sessions with my wife and me, all of which were recorded and shared with us, and recently dropped in on our regularly scheduled session with Desirae Ysasi, a close colleague of his to whom he referred us after our course of therapy with him was done.
You don’t have to read either of these pieces to enjoy this conversation, but reading them in advance will enrich your experience of the conversation, because you’ll have a better sense of why I lead Terry in the particular directions that I do.
I’m a skeptic of self-help literature, in general, but I suspend my skepticism in Terry’s case. I think his way of thinking about relationships, and through them about individual virtue, bypasses a lot of the traps that we’re stuck in when it comes to both politics and psychology. On issues around masculinity, in particular, he points toward a way forward for men that avoids the pitfalls of traditional right-coded masculinity and the inadequacies of feminist anti-masculinity. He gives us a way to be powerful and loving, feminist and strong, at the same time.
That’s some of what we talk about in the conversation. We also talk about politics, about different therapeutic strategies for working with “blatant” and “latent” partners in a relationship, and plenty more.
-Dan
Show notes from AI:
00:00 Introduction and Welcome
00:31 Terry Real's Background and Work
01:03 Male Depression and Boyhood Trauma
03:45 Relational Life Therapy (RLT) Origins
05:35 Therapeutic Leverage in Couples Therapy
08:56 Phases of Relational Life Therapy
12:12 Patriarchy and Its Impact on Therapy
15:46 Confronting Grandiosity in Therapy
30:22 Challenges in Addressing Male Depression
35:11 Ecological Wisdom and Relational Technology
35:40 Teaching Relationship Skills with Humility
36:05 Confronting Criticism and Gender Dynamics
40:50 Empowerment Strategies for Latents and Blatants
48:43 Political Implications of Relational Wisdom
56:43 The Balance of Power and Love in Politics
01:07:50 Sexual Dynamics and Relational Flexibility
01:10:22 The Wisdom of Knowing the Right Moment
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Eminent Americans 
