The Great Simplification with Nate Hagens
Deep(er) Ecology: William Rees, Nora Bateson & Rex Weyler | Reality Roundtable #02
Episode guests
Podcast summary created with Snipd AI
Quick takeaways
- Ecology challenges societal constructs and belief in human exceptionalism.
- Understanding ecological systems requires recognizing complex relationships and communication.
- Contraction of human enterprises and a shift in mindset are necessary for long-term sustainability.
Deep dives
Ecology in a Nutshell
Ecology is the study of the relationships and interactions between organisms and their habitats, with a focus on energy and material flows. It encompasses principles like emergence, self-organization, dissipative structures, and evolution. Ecological systems are dynamic and rely on the constant flow of solar energy for their functioning. Humans are part of this energy system and need to recognize their place within it. The concept of ecology challenges our societal constructs and the belief in human exceptionalism.
Communication and Relationships in Ecology
Ecological processes involve complex relationships and communication between organisms. All organisms, from plants to animals, are interconnected and communicate in various ways. Communication is essential in understanding ecological systems. We must recognize that relationships do not stand still and that ecological processes involve simultaneous implicating, where organisms are constantly changing and influencing each other in multiple realms. This understanding challenges our linear and control-oriented thinking patterns and calls for humility and openness to complex relationships and emerging possibilities.
Contraction, Population, and Sustainability
Contraction of human enterprises is inevitable for a sustainable future, as our current energy and material consumption is not viable in the long term. This involves reevaluating our use of fossil fuels and transitioning to renewable energy sources. Population control is a taboo topic, but discussions about supporting families and addressing women's rights and reproductive health are important. Reducing unwanted pregnancies and gently shrinking the human population growth rate can have positive ecological impacts. Sustainability requires a shift in mindset, valuing diversity, recognizing the value of all life forms, and expanding our sense of self to include the interconnectedness of all organisms.
The Overgrowth of Human Society
The podcast discusses the issue of the overgrowth of human society, emphasizing that it is a result of the exponential growth tendencies of all species. Humans, like any other species, tend to grow exponentially in favorable environments and expand into all available habitats. With the availability of fossil fuels, humans were able to exploit the planet and experience exponential growth. However, this growth has led to resource depletion and ecological degradation, setting us up for a population boom-bust cycle.
The Need for an Ecological Civilization
The podcast explores the concept of an ecological civilization and the need to shift away from the current growth-oriented system. The guests highlight the importance of accepting our animal nature and acknowledging that we are part of the interconnected web of life. They emphasize the need to recognize ecological limits and overcome the arrogance of human exceptionalism. Rather than imposing preconceived models or solutions, they advocate for nurturing unintentional communities and embracing the complexity and emergence of possibilities. The guests also emphasize the importance of changing the narratives and beliefs that are contrary to ecological reality and working towards a more balanced and sustainable future.
On this segment of Reality Roundtable, Nate is joined by William Rees, Nora Bateson, and Rex Weyler to discuss the purpose of ecology and what it might look like to have a civilization centered around it. Despite our tendency to think of ourselves as separate from the biosphere, humans are a part of it, just like any other animal. What sets us apart now is our outsized impact on the world around us, as we and our societies take up more space and resources, degrading the ecosystems that support ourselves, our descendants, and other species. How can an understanding of systems and relationships help us rethink how we interact with the planet? Could ecologically literate governments and citizens create wider boundaries across time and space in which decisions are made? What might the parameters be for a civilization centered around ecology, and how can we navigate there through declining energy and resource availability? Most of all, how can we as individuals and communities root ourselves into a deep(er) ecological knowledge and way of being?
About Nora Bateson
Nora Bateson is an award-winning filmmaker, writer and educator, as well as President of the International Bateson Institute, based in Sweden. Her work asks the question “How can we improve our perception of the complexity we live within, so we may improve our interaction with the world?”.
An international lecturer, researcher and writer, Nora wrote, directed and produced the award-winning documentary, An Ecology of Mind, a portrait of her father, Gregory Bateson. Her work brings the fields of biology, cognition, art, anthropology, psychology, and information technology together into a study of the patterns in ecology of living systems. Her book, Small Arcs of Larger Circles, released by Triarchy Press, UK, 2016 is a revolutionary personal approach to the study of systems and complexity.
About William Rees
William Rees is a population ecologist, ecological economist, Professor Emeritus and former Director of the University of British Columbia’s School of Community and Regional Planning in Vancouver, Canada. He researches the implications of global ecological trends for the longevity of civilization, with special focus on urban (un)sustainability and cultural/cognitive barriers to rational public policy. Prof Rees is best known as the originator and co-developer with Dr Mathis Wackernagel of ‘ecological footprint analysis’ (EFA), a quantitative tool that estimates human demands on ecosystems and the extent to which humanity is in ‘ecological overshoot.’ Dr Rees is a founding member and former President of the Canadian Society for Ecological Economics; a founding Director of the OneEarth Living Initiative; a Fellow of the Post-Carbon Institute and an Associate Fellow of the Great Transition Initiative.
About Rex Weyler
Rex Weyler is a writer and ecologist. His books include Blood of the Land; the Government and Corporate War Against First Nations, nominated for a Pulitzer Prize; Greenpeace: The Inside Story, a finalist for the BC Book Award and the Shaughnessy-Cohen Award for Political Writing; and The Jesus Sayings, a deconstruction of first century history, a finalist for the BC Book Award.
In the 1970s, Weyler was a cofounder of Greenpeace International and editor of the Greenpeace Chronicles. He served on campaigns to preserve rivers and forests and to stop whaling, sealing, and toxic dumping.
He currently posts the “Deep Green” column at the Greenpeace International website. He lives on Cortes Island in British Columbia, with his wife, artist Lisa Gibbons.
Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/GE39xfNRRyw
For Show Notes and More visit: https://www.thegreatsimplification.com/episode/rr02-bateson-rees-weyler
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