Grit

#228 Co-Founder Alinea & Tock: Selling Experience

Feb 3, 2025

Nick Kokonas, co-founder of the Alinea Group and former CEO of Tock, shares his innovative culinary journey. He discusses his transition from a Michelin-starred restaurant to exploring a new restaurant concept that combines dining with magical experiences. Nick reflects on personal challenges, including a family member's cancer diagnosis, and how fear has driven his entrepreneurial choices. He emphasizes the importance of creating memorable moments for diners while revealing insights into effective communication and the complexities of running a unique business.

01:20:07

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Episode guests

Nick Kokonas

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Episode notes

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Quick takeaways

Nick Kokonas emphasizes the importance of thorough planning and calculated risk-taking as motivators for entrepreneurial success in the restaurant industry.

He reflects on the personal identity aspect tied to restaurant ownership, stressing the value of hospitality and connections over seeking fame.

Kokonas discusses his innovative vision for a new dining concept that blends magic and storytelling to create immersive customer experiences.

Deep dives

The Role of Fear in Entrepreneurship

Fear acts as a powerful motivator for taking risks in entrepreneurship. The speaker emphasizes that when pursuing unconventional ideas, it’s essential to conduct thorough planning and analysis, using spreadsheets and first principles thinking. This careful preparation helps distinguish between valid concerns and excuses made by others who may be reluctant to embrace new ventures. Ultimately, the decision to leap into the unknown is bolstered by a mix of calculated risk and a willingness to learn from both successes and failures.

Intro

2min

Navigating Culinary Identity and Change

20min

Navigating Cancer and Culinary Connections

24min

From Culinary Arts to Trading Floors: Navigating Integrity and Chaos

3min

Navigating the Emotional Turmoil of Transitioning from a Long-Term Business

2min

The Magic of Experience: Blending Illusion and Engagement

11min

Entrepreneurial Mindsets and Communication

9min

The Delicate Dance of Criticism

8min

Guest: Nick Kokonas, co-founder of the Alinea Group and former CEO of Tock

As of October 1, 2024, Nick Kokonas is no longer an owner of the Alinea restaurant group, which he co-founded and ran for almost 20 years. When he bought a vineyard in Napa Valley prior to the exit, one of his sons remarked, “He's given up. Time to go out to pasture.”

Nick admits that the work ahead of him is “not the same” as the high-pressure world of a Michelin-starred restaurant in Chicago. But he’s started working with the magician Nate Staniforth on a new restaurant concept that will present diners with illusions and surprises over the course of a two-hour experience.

“If you want to feel wonder and feel childlike again, go see a magician,” Nick says. “[But] there’s so much bad cultural baggage ... what we wanted to do was create an experience that is not really about magic.”

Chapters:

(02:29) - Celebrity restauranteurs
(07:14) - The next act
(12:30) - Buying the vineyard
(15:37) - Fear is motivating
(17:59) - Opening night
(22:03) - Tongue cancer
(27:56) - “OK, let’s fix this”
(31:10) - Selling experience
(38:32) - The table plate
(42:40) - Feeling full
(44:14) - Next Restaurant and Tock
(49:33) - Being still
(51:19) - Nate Staniforth’s lottery illusion
(56:57) - The magic restaurant
(01:02:29) - Being misunderstood
(01:07:44) - Working via email
(01:11:43) - “Enemies”
(01:18:23) - Who Nick is hiring and what “grit” means to him

Mentioned in this episode: Mike Gamson, Shaquille O’Neal, Jeff Kaplan, Steve Bernacki, Robin Anil, Grant Achatz, OpenTable, American Express, The Big Lebowski, The New York Times, eGullet, Gourmet Magazine, Roger Ebert, Eddie van Halen, Goodfellas, The Devil Wears Prada, Batman, the Chicago Bears, Madonna, Taylor Swift, Bavette’s and Brendan Sodikoff, Pablo Picasso, Chef’s Table, Google, Brian Fitzpatrick, Finding Real Magic, David Blaine, Mark Cuban, Mark Caro, Chicago Magazine, John Mariani, Cat Cora, Homaro Cantu, Dave Portnoy, Pete Wells, and Eric Asimov.

Links:

Connect with Nick

Connect with Joubin

Learn more about Kleiner Perkins

This episode was edited by Eric Johnson from LightningPod.fm

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