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Jane Chen On Collapse, Extreme Self-Help, and Healing Yourself

Jan 27, 2026

Guest

Jane Chen

Jane Chen, founder of Embrace and author of Like a Wave We Break, shares how building a life-saving startup nearly broke her and why collapse catalyzed radical healing. She discusses burnout, how trauma can drive social entrepreneurship, extreme self-help as escapism, and transformative practices like IFS, therapy, psychedelics, and surfing.

01:20:49

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ANECDOTE

From Consulting To AIDS Orphans

Jane Chen left a high-paying consulting job to volunteer with AIDS orphans in China and felt a deep, unexplained pull to help powerless people.
That early experience later connected to childhood feelings of powerlessness and shaped her drive to serve vulnerable infants.

insights

INSIGHT

Pain Often Drives Purpose

Jane Chen observes many changemakers are driven by unresolved pain where "our pain becomes our purpose" and fuels unsustainable burnout.
That intertwining of trauma and mission can make caring work dangerously unsustainable without addressing underlying wounds.

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ANECDOTE

Designing A Low-Cost Infant Warmer

At Stanford's Design for Extreme Affordability class Jane's team built a portable infant warmer using phase change material to keep babies at 98 degrees without continuous electricity.
They designed it for village use where donated incubators failed due to power outages and misuse.

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Healing as Another Achievement Quest

02:18 • 1min

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Driving Forces Behind Extreme Healing Retreats

03:40 • 1min

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Childhood, Immigrant Roots, and Violence

04:57 • 2min

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From Consulting to AIDS Orphan Work

06:58 • 2min

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Why Vulnerability Drives Her Work

08:51 • 2min

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Trauma Fuels Social Entrepreneurs

10:54 • 1min

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Graduate School Decisions and Impostor Feelings

12:20 • 2min

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Early Public Speaking Panic and Long-Term Impact

14:30 • 2min

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Debate Over Her CEO Role

16:20 • 7min

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Design Class to Life-Saving Infant Warmer

23:22 • 2min

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Choosing Mission Over Money

25:48 • 2min

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Building Embrace in India: Triumphs and Costs

28:12 • 4min

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Visibility and the TED Turning Point

32:41 • 2min

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Anxiety Behind Public Success

34:52 • 2min

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Relentless Drive and Personal Neglect

36:31 • 49sec

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Deal Collapse, Cash Crunch, and Emotional Collapse

Should She Have Shut It Down?

44:24 • 4min

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Feeling Trapped and Physical Breakdown

48:16 • 2min

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Shutting Down and Seeking Closure

50:21 • 1min

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Surfing, Surrender, and Indonesia

51:25 • 3min

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Psychedelics, Retreats, and Hitting Real Trauma

54:03 • 3min

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Working with Bessel van der Kolk

56:53 • 4min

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Therapy: Feeling, Not Just Thinking

01:01:20 • 4min

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Introduction to Internal Family Systems

How IFS Reframes Protective Parts

Young Parts and Self-Compassion

01:11:51 • 2min

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Finding Worth From Within

01:13:55 • 5min

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Why Self-Relationship Determines Leadership

01:18:35 • 5min

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Publishing the Memoir and Continuing Work

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Eat, Pray, Love

Elizabeth Gilbert

In 'Eat, Pray, Love', Elizabeth Gilbert chronicles her journey as she leaves behind her outwardly successful but inwardly unfulfilling life in the United States. The book is divided into three parts, each set in a different country: Italy, where she seeks pleasure and indulges in the local culture; India, where she delves into spiritual practices and meditation; and Bali, Indonesia, where she aims to find a balance between worldly enjoyment and divine transcendence. The memoir is a personal and introspective account of Gilbert's struggles, growth, and self-discovery during her travels.

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Mary Shelley

Written in epistolary form, the novel tells the story of Victor Frankenstein, a brilliant and ambitious scientist who, driven by Enlightenment-era ideas of progress and science, creates a living being from dead body parts. However, upon seeing the creature come to life, Frankenstein is horrified and abandons it. The creature, shunned by society due to its appearance, seeks revenge against its creator, leading to a series of tragic events. The novel explores themes of guilt, loss, and the emotional and moral consequences of scientific hubris, blending elements of Gothic and Romantic literature.

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• Mentioned in 120 episodes

The Five Dysfunctions of a Team

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Patrick Lencioni

This book explores the fundamental causes of team failure and organizational politics through a narrative about a fictional company, DecisionTech, Inc. It outlines five dysfunctions: absence of trust, fear of conflict, lack of commitment, avoidance of accountability, and inattention to results. The book provides practical advice and real-world examples to help teams overcome these dysfunctions and become high-performing teams.

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• Mentioned in 2 episodes

Like a Wave We Break

a Memoir of Falling Apart and Finding Myself

Jane Chen

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• Mentioned in 19 episodes

The Anxious Achiever

Turn Your Biggest Fears into Your Leadership Superpower

Morra Aarons-Mele

This book aims to normalize anxiety and leadership, arguing that anxiety is inherent in leadership and can be harnessed for good. It provides practical advice on recognizing and managing anxiety, confronting bad habits, resisting perfectionism, dealing with feedback and criticism, and modeling healthy behavior as a leader. The book is inspired by Aarons-Mele's popular podcast of the same name and is designed to help readers turn their stress and worries into strengths for themselves, their careers, and their teams.

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• Mentioned in 374 episodes

The Body Keeps the Score

Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma

Bessel van der Kolk

In this book, Dr. Bessel van der Kolk uses recent scientific advances to show how trauma reshapes both the body and brain, compromising sufferers’ capacities for pleasure, engagement, self-control, and trust. He explores various treatments, including neurofeedback, meditation, sports, drama, and yoga, which activate the brain’s natural neuroplasticity to aid in recovery. The book emphasizes the power of relationships in both causing and healing trauma and offers hope through descriptions of novel approaches to treatment. It is based on Dr. van der Kolk’s own research and that of other leading specialists in the field.

Work becomes the place where we pour everything we can’t face elsewhere. In this episode, I’m joined by Jane Chen, founder of Embrace, to talk about burnout, identity, and what happens when your worth becomes tied to what you produce. Jane shares how building a world-changing company nearly broke her, why healing can become another form of overachievement, and how childhood trauma shapes your drive to succeed. Tune in to rethink ambition, resilience, and what it really means to choose yourself.

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In this Episode, You Will Learn

00:00 What happens when your dream company starts destroying you?

03:00 Why “self-work” can become a form of escapism.

06:15 How childhood trauma fuels the need to succeed.

10:45 Why so many changemakers are driven by unresolved pain.

14:30 Why you never give yourself credit for your own resilience.

20:15 How Embrace was born in a Stanford classroom.

27:00 The country where 40% of the world’s premature babies are born.

34:30 When identity collapses with your company.

38:00 Hitting rock bottom after 10 years of overwork.

49:00 How does trauma live in your body?

52:00 How achievement becomes a way to earn love.

56:30 Why you can’t think your way out of pain.

1:00:45 What Internal Family Systems teaches about your “parts.”

1:05:00 Why achievement becomes a survival strategy.

1:13:45 Why your worth can’t live outside you.

Resources + Links

Get your copy of Jane’s book, Like a Wave We Break HERE

Get a copy of my book - The Anxious Achiever

Watch the podcast on YouTube

Find more resources on our website morraam.com

Follow

Follow me: on LinkedIn @morraaronsmele + Instagram @morraam

Follow Jane on Instagram @janemarie.chen

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