In this episode I am joined by Dr Nicholas Van Dam, the inaugural Director of the Contemplative Studies Centre and an Associate Professor in the Melbourne School of Psychological Sciences at the University of Melbourne, and Chelsey Fasano, a Columbia University neuroscience graduate.
Dr Van Dam discusses his 2018 paper ‘Mind the Hype: A Critical Evaluation and Prescriptive Agenda for Research on Mindfulness and Meditation’ which levels serious criticisms at his own field of mindfulness research and contemplative neuroscience, taking aim at poor methodological practices, problems with definitions, and the strong incentives in the field which can conflict with the pursuit of science.
Dr Van Dam reveals what he calls the unholy triad of mindfulness research, explores the theme of elitism in meditation, and raises questions about the studies conducted on Buddhist contemplative Matthieu Ricard, known as the ‘happiest man in the world’.
Dr Van Dam also considers the degree to which mindfulness can be meaningfully isolated apart from its traditional religious contexts, notes the adverse effects of meditation, and shares his thoughts for the individual meditator on how to practice and who to trust in todays meditation marketplace.
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Video version: https://www.guruviking.com/podcast/ep213-mind-the-hype-dr-nicholas-van-dam-chelsey-fasano
Also available on Youtube, iTunes, & Spotify – search ‘Guru Viking Podcast’.
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Topics Include:
00:00 - Intro
01:26 - Mind the Hype
03:02 - Realising something was wrong with the mindfulness field
05:30 - Has the field improved?
06:20 - Perverse incentives
08:08 - The unholy triad of mindfulness
09:53 - The definition problem
11:56 - Poor standards of evidence
14:36 - Misunderstanding of neuroplasticity
16:36 - The Matthieu Ricard problem and elitism
19:17 - Olympians of the mind
21:21 - Adverse effects of meditation
22:11 - History of elitism in Buddhist meditation
23:48 - Controversies about defining mindfulness
29:16 - The judgment trap
31:58 - Operationalising mindfulness to serve the research agenda
32:58 - Missing the traditional context
35:40 - To what extent can science be informed by traditional schema?
42:01 - Consequences of moving away from religious thinking
46:45 - Scientism as a faith position
47:41 - Profit incentives
51:17 - What motivates mindfulness researchers?
51:29 - How to we recognise authority?
52:43 - Omertà and corrupt science
59:22 - Career risks in criticising mindfulness research
01:02:33 - Mindfulness is passé
01:04:28 - Critique of psychedelic and tech interventions
01:08:56 - Why bother with meditation?
01:12:39 - Importance of practice goals
01:13:50 - Is enlightenment really worth the effort and risk?
01:16:40 - Is meditation just practicing skilful suffering?
01:18:21 - Real practice doesn’t sell
01:20:46 - Advice for meditation practitioners
01:23:22 - Recommendations for mindfulness researchers
01:23:58 - Gaslighted by religious traditions
01:24:51 - Who can we trust?
01:27:26 - Contemplative Studies Centre
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To find out more about Dr Van Dam, visit:
- https://www.nicholastvandam.com/
- https://psychologicalsciences.unimelb.edu.au/CSC
- https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29016274/
To find our more about Chelsey Fasano visit:
- www.chelseyfasano.com
For more interviews, videos, and more visit:
- https://www.guruviking.com
Music ‘Deva Dasi’ by Steve James
