SPOS #977 – Dan Heath On How To Change What's Not Working
Mar 30, 2025
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Dan Heath, a bestselling author known for his influential books on organizational change, joins to share insights from his latest work, 'Reset.' He discusses the importance of momentum in fostering workplace progress and how focusing on employee experience is crucial for success. The conversation reveals why many leaders overlook vital feedback and the systemic issues behind the Great Resignation. With a blend of research and storytelling, Dan emphasizes the power of small changes in transforming stagnant organizations and enhancing job satisfaction.
Dan Heath emphasizes that momentum trumps speed in organizational change, highlighting the importance of steady progress over rushed action.
The podcast discusses how involving employees in decision-making processes leads to improved satisfaction and productivity within organizations.
Heath critiques traditional management practices for failing to prioritize employee engagement, stating that meaningful contributions are the best motivators in the workplace.
Deep dives
Introduction to Thinkers One
Thinkers One offers organizations a platform to purchase personalized thought leadership video experiences from top thinkers. The emphasis is on accessibility and reasonable pricing, enabling businesses to integrate insights from renowned authors, speakers, and industry leaders into their meetings. The platform provides a unique way to enhance corporate events and learning sessions by booking experts for live appearances or tailored presentations. This new approach allows companies to bring world-class thinking directly into their everyday workflows.
The Concept of Reset
Dan Heath's book 'Reset' explores the dynamics of organizational change and why certain practices become entrenched over time. He highlights that behaviors deemed inefficient today may have been judicious years ago but have since been overlooked due to habitual adherence. An example is shared from a corrugated box factory, where a shutdown routine was established due to past power instabilities, despite it being irrelevant in the present context. This illustrates how organizations often become blind to outdated processes that hinder efficiency.
The Challenge of Adaptation
Heath discusses the inherent difficulties in addressing inefficiencies that arise from adapting to past conditions. He contrasts this with modern workplace issues where policies are sometimes instituted in response to singular events, leading to confusion for the majority who do not engage in problematic behaviors. The case of long-haul truckers facing increased surveillance due to a minority's misconduct exemplifies this challenge. Such responses can misalign efforts and inefficiencies, ultimately burdening the many due to the actions of a few.
Motivation and Organizational Change
The discussion underscores the significance of motivation in driving organizational change, with Heath emphasizing the importance of engaging employees in identifying and solving systemic problems. He cites a Brazilian hospital that sought employee input on scheduling and operational improvements, showcasing the positive effects of involving team members in decision-making. By addressing their concerns through cooperative initiatives, the hospital was able to enhance employee satisfaction and operational efficiency. This collaborative approach fosters a culture of ownership and accountability, pivotal for successful change implementation.
Embracing Meaningful Work
Heath highlights that genuine progress in work environments stems from employees feeling they are making meaningful contributions. Drawing from research, he notes that the most effective motivator for professionals is not recognition or financial incentives but rather the sense of advancing valuable work. He critiques conventional management practices that overlook employee engagement, suggesting that understanding the intersection of individual aspirations and organizational demands can guide effective change. This insight reinforces the idea that meaningful engagement is critical in combating the prevalence of 'bullshit jobs' and promoting overall job satisfaction.
Welcome to episode #977 of Six Pixels of Separation - The ThinkersOne Podcast.
Dan Heath is a frequent and always welcome guest on this show, and with good reason - few people have done more to translate complex human behavior and organizational dynamics into smart, actionable insights. You probably know Dan as the co-author (with his brother Chip Heath) of some of the most beloved and bestselling business books of the past two decades, including Made To Stick, Switch, Decisive, and The Power of Moments. His work has reshaped the way leaders think about communication, decision-making, change, and the emotional beats that define experience. With his latest solo book, Reset - How To Change What’s Not Working, Dan continues this tradition - offering a practical framework for identifying leverage points that can unlock real transformation, even in systems that feel stuck or bloated by inertia. In this conversation, we dug into why momentum beats speed, how progress (not perfection) is the most powerful motivator in the workplace, and why so many leaders miss the mark by focusing on customer experience while overlooking the employee experience. We also talk about the role of self-doubt, the necessity of feedback, and how the Great Resignation isn’t just about quitting - it’s about a systemic failure to reimagine work. Dan’s signature mix of rigorous research, compelling storytelling, and approachable wisdom is on full display here. You should also check out his podcast, What It’s Like To Be…. If you’ve ever wondered why change efforts stall - or how to get unstuck with the same people and resources - this one’s for you. Enjoy the conversation...
This week's music: David Usher 'St. Lawrence River'.
Chapters:
(00:00) - Introduction to Reset and Its Themes. (02:54) - Understanding Inefficiencies in Organizations. (05:58) - The Role of Technology in Problem Solving. (09:01) - Team Dynamics and Collaborative Change. (12:08) - Leverage Points for Effective Change. (15:10) - Motivation and Employee Engagement. (17:56) - Cultural Differences in Organizational Success. (21:03) - The Shift from Customer to Employee Experience. (32:06) - The Great Resignation and Management Challenges. (34:02) - Management by Walking Around: A Timeless Approach. (36:19) - Inertia and the Challenge of Change. (38:34) - Momentum vs. Speed: The Key to Progress. (40:08) - The Progress Principle: Motivation Through Meaningful Work. (41:56) - The Reality of Modern Work. (43:53) - Defining Waste: A New Perspective on Efficiency. (45:53) - The Role of Government in Efficiency and Change. (52:40) - Self-Doubt and Openness to Feedback.
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