Science of Reading: The Podcast

While in New Orleans at the Plain Talk About Literacy and Learning conference, Susan sat down with keynoter Zaretta Hammond. Zaretta shared her thoughts on the importance of scaffolding in literacy education. In this episode, Susan and Zaretta also look back on Zaretta’s impactful book Culturally Responsive Teaching and the Brain, and talk about mastery and the importance of learning how to learn. Show notes:Book: Culturally Responsive Teaching and The Brain: Promoting Authentic Engagement and Rigor Among Culturally and Linguistically Diverse Students by Zaretta L. HammondTwitter: @ready4rigorInstagram: @crtandthebrainNewsletter sign up: www.crtandthebrain.comQuotes:“What I have come to believe is the obstacle is the way. So what worries me becomes my research project. What worries me becomes my new mission.”  —Zaretta Hammond“For me, justice is the mastery. I'm a movie fan and so I, in this case, think of Master Yoda all the time. You know, he said there's no try or not try. You're just doing it. Either you're teaching them to read or not.” —Zaretta Hammond“When that scaffold stays [up] too long, it becomes a crutch and the child actually believes they cannot learn without it.” —Zaretta Hammond“So this idea of somehow we get overprotective and we don't want them to fall. We don't want them to fail. We don't want them, you know, their self, self-esteem, to be bruised. We are actually doing that when we delay this because the only way we learn is through error. And we have not reframed errors as information.” —Zaretta Hammond“Number one, you assign yourself, and number two, you always go for mastery. Not a grade. No one will ever ask you about your grades four years after college, ever. Go for mastery. They will ask you what you know how to do.” —Zaretta Hammond

After three years and more than 3 million downloads, Science of Reading: The Podcast recently conducted its first ever taping in front of a live audience. The recording took place on March 9, 2023, in New Orleans at the Plain Talk About Literacy and Learning conference. Susan Lambert was joined by none other than Kareem Weaver, NAACP activist, whose first appearance on this podcast remains an all-time favorite among listeners. This time around, Kareem gave Susan a behind-the-scenes look at his involvement with the new film: The Right to Read. Kareem also offered insights into his latest work with NAACP. Plus, Kareem addressed the topic of accountability: can we make the changes we need to make when it comes to literacy instruction without holding some people accountable?Show notes:More info on The Right to Read filmTrailer: The Right to Read Kareem Weaver on TwitterFULCRUM websiteKareem Weaver’s first appearance on “Science of Reading: The Podcast”Quotes:“You could look at it from every endeavor, every social sector. Literacy is at the core.” —Kareem Weaver“Hope it's not a strategy. It's great to have hope, but that can't be the strategy for our kids and our systems that serve 'em.” —Kareem Weaver“There has to be some accountability at a human level for people to open up and be willing to believe enough.” —Kareem Weaver“People often get so caught up in their own feelings and their own agenda and what they can't wait to do and they forget about the people they're supposed to be. Leadership starts with service.” —Kareem Weaver“Many of us have divested ourselves from our own values to accommodate the narratives and lies we've been told to calm the dissonance.” —Kareem Weaver“I believe in our potential to solve big problems if we're honest with each other and if we ask the right questions and push the right way.” —Kareem Weaver 

Podcast delves into the challenges of small-group instruction in literacy, with insights from Jamey Peavler. Topics include misconceptions, mastery stages in education, benefits of overlearning, Anita Archer's teachings, and prioritizing targeted instruction for academic progress.

For the second episode in our new season focused on tackling the hard stuff, we're taking on a question that listeners have asked: how can we apply the Science of Reading in a Montessori setting? To help explore that question, we're joined by the three authors of the recent book Powerful Literacy in the Montessori Classroom: Aligning Reading Research and Practice. Listen to Dr. Susan Zoll, Dr. Natasha Feinberg, and Dr. Laura Saylor as they explore the shared qualities between the Science of Reading and Montessori approach. They share tips and guidance for literacy instruction both inside and outside a Montessori setting and end with an impassioned call to educators from all approaches to come together and learn from each other for the benefit of students everywhere.Show notes:Book: Powerful Literacy in the Montessori Classroom: Aligning Reading Research and Practice, by Susan Zoll, Natasha Feinberg, and Laura SaylorBook: Explicit Instruction: Effective and Efficient Teaching, by Anita Archer and Charles HughesQuotes:“Maria Montessori was a scientist first. She developed her methods based on science.” —Laura Saylor“Reading is the human rights issue of our era in education and we want all children to be successful.”—Susan Zoll“I encourage everyone, get together with your colleagues, talk about the different pedagogy, talk about the different strategies that are out there, because that is what is going to help us become better in the field of education.”— Natasha Feinberg“For those trained in both Science of Reading and Montessori education, there were clear and undeniable parallels between them.”—Susan Zoll“Teachers want students to be good readers. That is what is underlying our instruction— whether we are Montessori, whether we're teaching in a public school.”—Natasha Feinberg“If you're a Montessori and continue to use your Montessori language, absolutely follow your philosophy and the pedagogy, but also begin to engage with this language of research because it can elevate the conversation and it can expand our reach into the greater world of education.”—Susan Zoll“Come see what we do and know that we're willing to share.” —Laura Saylor“We all want children to have access to wonderful reading instruction. We all want children to have the opportunities and life that each of them deserves. And if we are not working together and we're busy labeling and [in a] silo then we really aren't going to have the collective impact we might have otherwise.” —Laura Saylor

Claude Goldenberg and Susan Lambert discuss navigating the noise in the Science of Reading, addressing social media challenges, foundational skills, and the importance of hope. They emphasize leadership, clear communication, and efficient training in education. The episode highlights the complexities of literacy development and the significance of collaboration in tackling challenges.

We're thrilled to share that we are about to launch brand new seasons of our hit podcasts— Science of Reading: The Podcast, Science Connections, Math Teacher Lounge. Listen to this trailer to learn more about what's to come in season 7 of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Tackling the Hard Stuff; season 3 of Science Connections, Science is the Underdog; and season 5 of Math Teacher Lounge, Math Anxiety. Click here to visit the new Amplify Podcast Hub and watch the video trailer promoting all three new seasons. Show notes:Science of Reading: The Podcast pageScience Connections podcast pageMath Teacher Lounge podcast pageAmplify Podcast HubCrossover episode: The science of learning, the humility of teaching

Learning is at the center of everything in education, so understanding how the human brain processes, retains, and retrieves new information is essential to student growth. In this special crossover episode, Susan joins forces with fellow Amplify podcast hosts Eric Cross from Science Connections, and Dan Meyer and Bethany Lockhart Johnson from Math Teacher Lounge, to discuss what learning really means across subjects. Susan is also joined by Peter C. Brown, author of the book Make It Stick: The Science of Successful Learning, to dive into the cognitive science behind how our brains learn and ways you can apply that research in your classroom right now!Show notes: Amplify podcast hubPodcast: Science of Reading: The PodcastPodcast: Math Teacher LoungePodcast: Science ConnectionsBook: “Make It Stick: The Science of Successful Learning,” by Peter C. Brown, Henry L. Roediger III,, Mark A. McDanielWebsite: Retrieval PracticeQuotes: “As much as I'm into the science of learning, I really wanna be into, like, the humility of teaching” —Dan Meyer“Learning is this fluid thing. It's social, it's dynamic, it's experiential. It is the process of acquiring knowledge and understanding, and developing these behavioral skills, but it's also embedded in this bigger context of your background, your identity.” —Eric Cross“For myself as an educator, I am just a lily pad as [students] hop across the pond, but I want to be the best lily pad possible. I want to give them the strongest surface. I want to give them the most security that I can.” —Eric Cross“There's new ways to solve the problem. There's new ways to look at the problem. There's new ways to take apart the problem and put it back together. And for me, that's when learning happens.” —Bethany Lockhart Johnson“The scientists have discovered that for something to be learned and retained, you need to help the brain do that by practicing, retrieving it from memory, and practicing explaining it in your own words to somebody else asking.” —Peter C. Brown“There's really great evidence that we can then teach our students or maybe even ourselves how to be a better learner.” —Susan Lambert“Joy in the classroom is a much better context for learning than anxiety.” —Susan Lambert

Back in 2019, Natalie Wexler joined Susan Lambert as the very first guest on Science of Reading: The Podcast. Now—more than three years and three million downloads later—Science of Reading: The Podcast welcomes Natalie back on the show. She and Susan discuss what she's seen in the 3+ years since releasing her groundbreaking book The Knowledge Gap and delve into the importance of managing cognitive load, building long-term memory, writing, and the broader science of literacy. Lastly, Natalie shares what she hopes to see in the education headlines in the not-so-distant future. Show notes:Our first episode with Natalie Wexler, The Knowledge GapThe Knowledge Gap: The Hidden Cause of America's Broken Education System—And How to Fix It , by Natalie WexlerBloom's TaxonomyOne Sentence At A Time, by Judith C. Hochman and Natalie WexlerThe Writing Revolution websiteKnowledge Matters CampaignStatement from Knowledge Matters CampaignQuotes:“I'm a little worried that Science of Reading, narrowly defined, isn’t encompassing everything we need to do. And people are getting the idea that if they just add more phonics to what they're already doing, they'll have solved the problem.” —Natalie Wexler“Even if we do a great job on that foundational skills side of things, if we are not also changing current standard practice with regard to comprehension. If we don't start building kids' academic knowledge and vocabulary early, we are gonna find, at higher grade levels, kids are gonna be able to decode complex text, but they may not be able to understand it.” —Natalie Wexler“There are serious problems with how we have been approaching decoding instruction. There are equally serious problems with how we've been approaching comprehension instruction, and that's the message that I think is not getting out.” —Natalie Wexler“You can't get to the top without going through the bottom. You can't think critically about a topic that you don't have understanding or knowledge of, it's just not going to work.” —Natalie Wexler“Here's the catch about writing: It's hugely important. It can help cement knowledge and long-term memory, and deepen knowledge.” —Natalie Wexler“Even if you as a teacher have doubts about the curriculum. It's really important to give it your best shot and approach it with enthusiasm.” —Natalie Wexler“It's great to focus attention on problems with phonics instruction, but we also need to bring attention to problems with comprehension instruction and the failure to build a kind of knowledge that fuels comprehension.” —Natalie Wexler“What has amazed me is how many teachers and educators have nevertheless really embraced this message. And I think that really speaks to how much they care about their students. Change is hard, but they are undertaking it daily.” —Natalie Wexler 

Todd Collins went from education outsider to literacy expert when he joined his local school board after a career in finance and technology. When Todd saw the literacy assessment number, his data-driven mind said "this isn't good enough" and got to work. Todd went on to organize the California Reading Coalition, a movement of educators, advocates, parents, and policymakers committed to improving reading instruction and outcomes for California's six million students. In this episode, he joins Susan Lambert to discuss what it really takes to make effective change; the importance of clear, ambitious goals and strong leadership in schools; and which numbers within literacy data are most important to focus on.Show notes: California Reading Coalition California Reading Report CardCalifornia Reading Coalition on TwitterCalifornia Reading Coalition on FacebookQuotes:“We have to help everybody kind of collectively align our voices and help people who wanna find out more about this, find out more about it.” —Todd Collins“If the pieces of the system aren't all working together, then you just don't achieve sustained change.” —Todd Collins“Leaders have a critical function. They communicate to everybody in a state or in an organization what's important. You don't have to tell 'em what to do, but you need to tell 'em what the goal is.” —Todd Collins“Teachers aren't the problem. Teachers are the solution.” —Todd Collins“We simply can't call ourselves a great school district unless we get great results for our most challenged and least resourced students.” —Todd Collins“It's not a new thing to be concerned about the low achievement among low-income students but it's a relatively new thing to do something about it.” —Todd Collins

While working with students, one educator came to a realization that put her on a path to fascinating research in the Science of Reading. In this episode, Jasmine Rogers—manager and coach with the In Schools program at the DC Reading Clinic and an early literacy intervention lead at American University—shares her story and delves into her research on dialects and best practices for structured literacy instruction. She discusses Black language and how it connects with the language comprehension strand of Scarborough's Reading Rope. Jasmine also offers recommendations for classroom teachers who have bidialectal students.Show notes:DC Reading ClinicS1-22: Success using the Science of Reading: Mary ClaymanJasmine Rogers - Linkedin S4-07: Linguistic Variety and Dialects: Difference, not error: Julie Washington“Teaching Reading to African American Children,” by Julie A. Washington and Mark S. Seidenberg“Linguistic Justice: Black Language, Literacy, Identity, and Pedagogy,” by April Baker-Bell“An Informed Lens on African American English,” by Megan-Brette Hamilton“Multilingualism and Codeswitching in Education,” by Nkonko M. KamwangamaluQuotes:“As a teacher, a Black woman, who speaks Black English, who knows the language, who is very well versed in structured literacy, if I overlooked this, if that caught me off guard a little bit, then that means that could potentially catch someone else off guard.” —Jasmine Rogers“With language comprehension, and considering in your native language, there may be a word that doesn’t necessarily match up with a language that you are learning in the classroom. So you have to then use your incredible cognitive skills that speak two completely different codes, comprehend what is happening, and then tie that back into, of course, the Rope to become a fluent reader.” —Jasmine Rogers“I consider Black English to be a very complex and complicated language…but I think typically in society it has been viewed very negatively. You can see in the media and in research where people have talked about it and used negative connotations. And I think those beliefs from society have seeped into the classroom.” —Jasmine Rogers“A strength of children that are bidialectal is the similar strength to students that are bilingual—they have an ability to take language that is different from theirs and translate it. That right there is an asset.” —Jasmine Rogers“The languages that we speak and bring from home also are not wrong. They’re simply different. And we’re gonna work together so that we take what we know differently and come together with a common language so that we’re communicating with one another.” —Jasmine Rogers“We have got to give our students access to this code so that they can become literate and run our society one day.” —Jasmine Rogers