Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler

My friend Emma Westwood (married mother of 5, nurse at Primary Children's Hospital, Latter-day Saint) joins us to talk about her gay little brother Collin Russell who died of an accidental overdose at the age of 23 in 2018. Emma talks about Collin coming out to her while a junior in high school and the difficult road he faced full of shame—which led to addictions to cope with the pain/shame—which led to his death by an accidental overdose on December 26th, 2018. Emma talks about her immensely gifted brother—full of light and hope—but how the shame/self-loathing of his sexual orientation dimmed his feelings about himself/his future. Emma talks about the decision that she and her husband Isaac made to name the Encircle Home in Heber City after Collin—now called The Collin Russell Home—and the positive role of Encircle to provide hope, connection, and a safe place for LGBTQ+ youth. And a wish that Collin has something like Encircle in his life. Emma (and her mother Laurie in an Instagram message) talk about the importance of helping our LGBTQ friends to have no shame for their sexual orientation and/or gender identity and how we should view every child of Heavenly Parents created as intended, with great worth, and needed members of society. Thank you, Emma, for being on the podcast and continuing to honor the good name and memory of your brother Collin. I am so sorry he is gone. I hope your story helps LGBTQ+ youth have more hope in their future and helps the rest of us to a better job of loving and supporting. Links: Emma’s Encircle Tribute to Collin: encircletogether.org/heber/collin-russell Collin Russell Encircle Tribute Video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMi1VwVHLdo Encircle: encircletogether.org/ Collin's Obituary: www.serenityfhs.com/obituaries/Collin-Russell-2/#!/Obituary Emma Westwood on Instagram: @emmathejoy

**This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988** My friend Chloe Siegfried (she/her, gay, age 27, Salt Lake City native, deep belief in God/prayer) joins us to share her story of growing up LDS, coming out as gay, and then turning to alcohol and being in unhealthy relationships—partly to deal with her pain. Chloe talks about multiple suicide attempts, inpatient stays, and dark days. Chloe talks about prayer—one of the constants in her life and how she was finally able to stay sober on January 1st, 2023. It is a beautiful story of courage, prayer, family support and learning self-love. Chloe also talks about finding Ashlon and the beauty and health of that relationship and decided to get marriage in October of 2024. Chloe talks about her family support-including her younger brother Cole (the first person she came out to) officiating at the wedding. Chloe talks about her current work in a recover center helping others. Chloe is doing the podcast to talk to her younger self—and anyone else who is considering suicide who is full of pain, unable to love themselves and/or seeing no light at the end of the tunnel. Chloe is able to authentically say “it does get better”. In join with Chloe and plead with you to stay. If you are in a tough place or looking for a story to help others, please listen to Chloe’s story and share with others. Thank you for being on the podcast Chloe. You are a remarkable and brave woman. Honored to have you on the podcast. Links: Chloe’s Instagram: @chlo.siegfried Picture mentioned in the podcast of man considering jumping: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ts7u8ilxoh2f6kyhiw6h9/Man-Considering-Jumping.jpg?rlkey=uijx4mlrqz8oe0m9re5w39z66&dl=0

Our son Jake Ostler (Undergraduate Degree in Psychology, Master’s Degree in Social Work, Certificate in anti-human trafficking, LCSW, working with sexual violence survivors in over 10 different countries since 2016) joins us to talk about his new non-profit called International Protection Alliance (protectall.org/). Jacob also serves on the Board of the Utah Social Work Association. Jake, who is looking for donations and supporters for his new non-profit, talks about why he co-founded it, its mission (to stop online sexual exploitation and support survivors), and how you can help. Jake also talks about the myths and facts of sex trafficking and what parents can do to better help their kids to be safe. While you can’t donate to our podcast, I am inviting you to listen to this podcast and consider donating to Jake’s non-profit International Protection Alliance. I deeply believe in the work Jake is doing and his skills (clinical, organizational, financial) to run an effective non-profit with a mission to combat online sexual exploitation and help survivors heal—something that is so needed in our world. Thank you, Jake, for being on the podcast. Your parents deeply believe in you and the work you are doing. Honored that more can hear of your efforts. Jake welcomes any ideas for how you'd like to support the mission. Please reach out if you have ideas or want to be updated as they continue working and growing Links: Jake’s e-mail: jacob@protectall.org International Protection Alliance web stie: protectall.org International Protection Alliance Instagram: @intl.protect.all Facebook: www.facebook.com/ipa.protectall Jake’s Utah Clinical Practice: healingandhopeutah.com Jake’s LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jacob-ostler-492716116

My friend Oliver Black (RM, UVU student, grew up in Utah County) joins us to share his story with gender dysphoria and how we can help trans/non-binary Latter-day Saints feel more welcome. Oliver delayed his transition so he could serve a mission (Montana—great experience—wanted to serve to help others), but has now been fully transitioned for over three years. He talks about the positive experiences in his mission and the role of spiritual promptings when coming out while in the field. Oliver then talks about the love/support he's received from his parents and local wards—and the spiritual peace he feels. He also discusses the difficult road transgender Latter-day Saints walk and what we can do to better support them. In this regard, Oliver has written “7 Ways Local Church Leaders Can Make Church Safe for Transgender Members” (link in show notes). This labor of love suggests ways (given the new handbook changes in Aug 2024) to help transgender members feel more safe, accepted, loved, and needed. He answers tender questions I felt impressed to ask him, giving answers that were deeply insightful and moving. Thank you, Oliver, for being on the podcast and helping us better understand that our Heavenly Parents' love all Their children. You are a good man with immense emotional/spiritual/intellectual maturity—gifts that you are using to help us create Zion and bless others. Honored to have you on the podcast. Links: Oliver’s “7 Ways Local Church Leaders Can Make Church Safe for Transgender Members” document: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/j2r794h1v7zoodghc9h8x/Supporting-Trans-Members-Oliver-Black-Nov-2024.pdf?rlkey=exlksuqeqbux4hxwk9xi1bgwx&dl=0 Oliver’s editing website/writing portfolio: https://oliveraeblack.wixsite.com/about

My friend and mentor Pastor Stan Mitchell (familiar with and friend to Latter-day Saints) joins us to share his story of his changed heart/perspective about LGBTQ people that occurred during his ministry at Grace Point Church in Nashville. Stan (who attended Latter-day Saint services as a youth causing him to reframe his view of Jesus from vengeful to loving) talks about teachings of Jesus to love/support/accept LGBTQ folks—accept/validate their pain—and be open to what we can do better to support these good folks. Stan talks about his work with Christian parents who deeply love their queer kids, their Christian beliefs, and want what is best for their kids. He offers suggestions on how to navigate this road. Stan also talks directly to our queer friends to help them feel more love, acceptance, and hope for their future—and a plea for those considering suicide to stay. Stan brings his strong theological insights, soft heart, and 1000’s of visits with people walking this road to help others. Thank you, Stan, for your work in many faith traditions to help us better love and support our queer friends. You work has helped me. Thank you for being on the podcast. Links: Stan Mitchell’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/stan.mitchell.58

My friend Ben Higinbotham (mid-30s, BYU grad, non-binary, gay, active LDS, RM, they/he/she) joins us to share their story of self-acceptance and personal growth. Ben talks about their lifelong journey on this road of being gay and not feeling like they fit as a girl—including personal revelation, coming out to others, their strong relationship with God and finding peace/hope in their life. Ben also talks about shame—and how rather than curing them of their queerness, God is curing them of their shame. They talk about using the new name of Ben—including the backstory of the importance of that name. Ben talks about how being gay and/or non-binary is not a sin—but transitioning (even social transitioning) removes some church privileges, which can be difficult. Ben talks about how they are navigating that road and still participating in the Church. Ben loves Jesus and is trying to be more like Him—they strongly believe that it is possible to be both queer and Christian. Ben shares their love and musical testimony of Jesus through their arrangement of the hymn Amazing Grace. Thank you, Ben, for being on the podcast. I was so impressed with your spiritual maturity, deep acceptance, and love for all people. I loved hearing some of the personal revelation you are receiving included how much God loves all his children. Thank you for the courage to share your story and help us better create Zion. You are awesome and our church community is better with you part of it. Links where people can find connection with LGBTQ+ people and allies: https://www.liftandlove.org https://www.liftandlove.org/gatherings

Tyler Johnson, an oncologist and former YSA bishop, discusses his book 'When Church is Hard'. He emphasizes the value of different types of testimonies and the importance of community inclusivity. Tyler highlights how pain in church experiences can lead to deeper understanding and empathy, advocating for critical listening and support for those in distress. He shares personal anecdotes illustrating the harmony of struggle and beauty in faith, encouraging listeners to embrace both elements in their spiritual journeys.

*Trigger warning: This episode mentions suicide. If you are experiencing suicidal thoughts and are in need of support, please reach out for help by calling 988. We care and we want you to be safe.* My friend, Colette Dalton (she/her) is a queer licensed clinical social worker and certified sex therapist. Colette was my guest on an episode in 2021, so she catches us up on her journey in healing from trauma and living with depression and describes her more recent experiences with finding what she terms as "Queer Joy." Colette also talks about her work with clients at Hearten House in downtown Salt Lake City; she specializes in experiential therapy, reuniting the mind and body, which is particularly important for many queer individuals with LDS backgrounds, due to high rates of internalized homophobia. Colette also meets with clients virtually throughout Utah, Arizona, and Idaho. Colette teaches us about a fantastic, free, resource for queer individuals and allies that she has recently developed, called The Queer Joy Summit (Nov 17-19). The Queer Joy Summit brings together over 20 speakers over 3 days to talk about how they experience queer joy and how you can experience more queer joy in your life, as well. Details for how you can register for the summit are included below. I am grateful to Colette for her courage, and for the important role that her experience and expertise bring to many who are in need of support and kindness at vulnerable times in their lives. Links: Queer Joy Summit: queerjoysummit.com Hearten House: heartenhouse.com Trevor Project and the study they did about queer kids not thinking they'll make it to 35: www.thetrevorproject.org/research-briefs/perceived-life-expectancy-and-life-purpose-in-lgbtq-young-people/ Dr. Brené Brown on Joy: It's Terrifying | SuperSoul Sunday | Oprah Winfrey Network: www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKV0BWSPfOw The power of vulnerability | Brené Brown | TED: www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCvmsMzlF7o

My friend Laurie Lee Hall (convert, former Director of LDS Temple Design and Construction, former Stake President, in her early 60s) joins us to share her story. Laurie Lee talks about her lifelong journey to manage her gender dysphoria and eventually “live as the woman I am”. Laurie Lee talks about the impossible choices she faced in this journey as a successful 20-year Church employee (the last part in the physical facilities department—one of her last projects being the expanded Provo MTC) and serving as a Stake President. That led to Laurie Lee’s Church employment ending and losing her Church membership. Laurie Lee talks about continuing (for a time) to participate in a new ward and being accepted in Relief Society—and the joy/belonging she felt. She talks about “living as Laurie Lee and the peace it brings me”, the new August 2024 handbook changes restricting transgender members, concerns about a “surveillance culture”—all of which are covered (and more) in her new book. Laurie Lee also talks about two meetings she and I shared around 2016/17 when I was trying to become a better ally by listening to my LGBTQ friends. Thank you, Laurie Lee, for being on the podcast, writing your book, bringing beauty to Latter-day Saint buildings/temples, choosing to stay alive, continuing to make the world a better place, and doing the best you can with impossible choices. This world is a better place because of Laurie Lee Hall. If you are looking to better understand/support our transgender friends, please listen to this episode and read her book. Thank you, Laurie Lee, for being on the podcast. You are awesome! Links: Amazon (kindle and book): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DHY2YJ6C Signature Books: https://www.signaturebooks.com/books/p/dictates-of-conscience

*** This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat *988 *** My friend Hunter Howell (Bio Medical Science Major, New Mexico/Farmington RM, Suicide Survivor) joins us to share his story. Hunter talks about his pre-mission years navigating his same-sex attraction, completing a mission (including falling in love with a companion), and being a BYU-Idaho student. At BYU-Idaho, Hunter faced the most difficult chapter in his life recognizing he wasn’t going to be able to marry a woman—leading to a suicide attempt—which led to a therapist that gave tools for Hunter to find hope in his future. Hunter talks about his deep relationship with his Heavenly Father and Savior and their love of/support for Hunter. Hunter gives honest advice to queer Latter-day Saints considering a mission and/or attending BYU-Idaho. If you are looking for hope, please listen to Hunter story. Thank you, Hunter, for being on the podcast, for how you are, and for your ability to bless/help others. This world is a better place with you part of it. Links: Hunter’s e-mail: Hdmhowell@gmail.com The Trevor Project: www.thetrevorproject.org Facebook Group to Minister to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143