How I Made it in Marketing

The How I Made It In Marketing podcast is underwritten by MECLABS Institute, the parent organization of MarketingSherpa. To learn how MECLABS Services can help you get better business results from deeper customer understanding, visit MECLABS.com/results.In a recent LiveClass of the MECLABS SuperFunnel Research Cohort (https://meclabs.com/MEC200-RSVP/), I was asked, “should you look to your competitors to determine the appeal and exclusivity of possible elements that could make up your value proposition?”I said no. You learn exclusivity from your competitors, but appeal you learn from your customers.To form truly powerful value props, to truly create value in the marketplace, we need to stop being so focused on our competition, and focus more on our customers, and how we can serve them with unique value.Which is scary, of course. To break away from the pack. So I love this lesson from my next guest, “Don’t be afraid to be the first. While not every innovative idea will be a success, it’s often the most adventurous ideas that end up being the biggest successes.”We’ll learn the story behind that lesson, and many more lesson-filled stories, from our guest on Episode #55 of the How I Made It In Marketing podcast – SM Lahti, Head of Marketing, TSM (https://tsm.gg/).Lahti leads a team of 20 at TSM, and shared the challenges and opportunities of managing a team in the esports industry in this episode.TSM (Team SoloMid) is the Most Valuable Esports Company, according to Forbes magazines, with an estimated value of $540 million and estimated revenue of $56 million in 2021, which is 32% growth over 2020. Stories (with lessons) about what she made in marketingSome lessons from Lahti that emerged in our discussion:Don’t be afraid to be the first. While not every innovative idea will be a success, it’s often the most adventurous ideas that end up being the biggest successes.Influencers of all sizes can drive product adoption.Work-life balance is important. This isn’t stressed enough to people entering the gaming industry.Good ideas can come from anywhere.Content creation is truly a business that requires creativity, an entrepreneurial spirit, planning, adaptation, and so much more.Always consult other perspectives, and value your own perspective as well.Related content mentioned in this episodeExploring Value Proposition and AI Technology: How to create unique ideas that you can execute with artificial intelligence (https://sherpablog.marketingsherpa.com/value-proposition/value-prop/)Healthcare IT Marketing: Branding a new service line within Stericycle, getting ONC certification, finding your joy, & more (https://www.marketingsherpa.com/article/interview/healthcare)Customer Experience: Take risks, fail early, and learn fast (episode #32) (https://www.marketingsherpa.com/article/interview/customer-experience)Consumer Financial Services Marketing: Your customer is your most important stakeholder (episode #39) (https://www.marketingsherpa.com/article/interview/consumer)Apply to be a guestIf you would like to apply to be a guest on How I Made It In Marketing, here is the podcast guest application – https://www.marketingsherpa.com/page/podcast-guest-application

The How I Made It In Marketing podcast is underwritten by MECLABS Institute, the parent organization of MarketingSherpa. To learn how MECLABS Services can help you get better business results from deeper customer understanding, visit MECLABS.com/results (https://meclabs.com/results).I think this one of the biggest challenges for when you grow in your career…When you get into a certain role, you – and others as well – have a general idea of how someone should be in that role. Let’s call the it ‘central casting version of a CMO.’And yet, in my life I’ve been more successful when I’ve been able to drop the mask and be as much of my true authentic self in my life – even in my work life – as possible.Our next guests is here to talk about that overcoming imposter syndrome by valuing your experience – he words the lesson as “There is a big difference between 10 years of experience and 10 years of experiences.”Our guest on Episode #54 of the How I Made It In Marketing podcast told us the story behind that lesson, along with many more lesson-filled stories – David Apple, Chief Marketing Officer, Intuitive Health.Intuitive Health treated 467,000 patients in 2022. Apple manages a $10 million marketing budget, including joint ventures.Stories (with lessons) about what he made in marketingSome lessons from Apple that emerged in our discussion:There is a big difference between 10 years of experience and 10 years of experiences. Fancy terms can lead to bigger missed expectations.Make “it” work.Partner with a true visionaryWe are only as good as how we handle humbling moments.Leadership is not measured in years, but in character.Related content mentioned in this episodeThe Radical Idea: Customer-first marketing prioritizes customer experience over upsells (https://sherpablog.marketingsherpa.com/consumer-marketing/the-radical-idea-customer-experience-over-upsells/)World-Class Consumer & Retail Brands: What right do we have as a brand to be in that business? (Podcast Episode #15) (https://www.marketingsherpa.com/article/interview/consumer-retail-brands)Public Sector Marketing and Communication Leadership: Multi-directional learners, multi-colored spiky hair, and wearing multiple hats (podcast episode #31) (https://www.marketingsherpa.com/article/interview/public-sector-marketing)Copywriting Contest: Write the best-performing subject line and win (https://marketingexperiments.com/copywriting/subject-line-reader-contest)About this podcastThis podcast is not about marketing – it is about the marketer. It draws its inspiration from the Flint McGlaughlin quote, “The key to transformative marketing is a transformed marketer” from the Become a Marketer-Philosopher: Create and optimize high-converting webpages (https://meclabs.com/course/) free digital marketing course.Apply to be a guestIf you would like to apply to be a guest on How I Made It In Marketing, here is the podcast guest application – https://www.marketingsherpa.com/page/podcast-guest-application

The How I Made It In Marketing podcast is underwritten by MECLABS Institute, the parent organization of MarketingSherpa. To learn how MECLABS Services can help you get better business results from deeper customer understanding, visit MECLABS.com/results (https://meclabs.com/results).Change does not want to happen. The status quo is tenacious. To quote Isaac Newton, “An object at rest stays at rest…yadda, yadda, yadda…unless acted upon by an unbalancing force.”In your career, in your company, you are that unbalancing force. You tenaciously swim upstream against the status quo, and make change happen.And yet…even as hard as that is… we can’t stop there. Not if we want to be good marketers. Not if we want to be good leaders. We need to use our communication and collaboration skills, and bring our internal team, and our customers, along for the ride.I love how our latest guest put it in one of her lessons – “Change (even good change) is hard, and everyone wants to be able to control, or at least influence, the change in their lives.”That’s true for your employees. That’s true for your customers.Our guest on Episode #53 of the How I Made It In Marketing podcast told us the story behind that lesson, along with many more lesson-filled stories – Onaisa Landis, Vice President of Marketing, Octane (https://www.octane.co/).Octane has grown from $350M in loans on an annual basis to $1.2B in the 2 years Landis has worked there. Landis has built her team from 3 to 10+.Stories (with lessons) about what she made in marketingSome lessons that emerged in our discussion:It’s not about you ,and when you make it about you, you're never going to succeedImperfect action today is better than perfect action tomorrowTo market effectively, you have to think beyond what your product does, you have to understand the role it plays in your customers’ livesBeing an effective manager is as much about driving business impact as it is about growing your team membersNo matter how important you are, make the people you interact with feel specialChange (even good change) is hard, and everyone wants to be able to control, or at least influence, the change in their livesRelated content mentioned in this episodeCustomer-First Objectives: Discover a 3-part formula for focusing your webpage message https://meclabs.com/course/sessions/customer-first-objectives/SaaS Marketing: Always bring the customer story forward (episode #42) https://www.marketingsherpa.com/article/interview/SaaS-marketingB2B Marketing: Marketing shouldn't be about driving demand; it's about driving value episode #40) https://www.marketingsherpa.com/article/interview/B2BContent and Communications: Tenacity, keep it simple, authenticity works (episode #33) https://www.marketingsherpa.com/article/interview/contentBlog Optimization: Button change leads to 34% increase in comments https://marketingexperiments.com/a-b-testing/blog-comment-testApply to be a guestIf you would like to apply to be a guest on How I Made It In Marketing, here is the podcast guest application – https://www.marketingsherpa.com/page/podcast-guest-application

We’ve been thinking long and hard about community lately, working with the MECLABS SuperFunnel Cohorts (https://meclabs.com/MEC200-RSVP). I’m sure many of you are as well. It is certainly a popular topic right now for marketers.And here’s one way I could know our community was working – when we could step back and not solve a community member’s problem. When members were helping each other, collaborating, solving each other’s problems. Making those valuable connections. That is a key inflection point to me.So when I read this lesson in a recent podcast guest application, it really stuck out to me – “You don’t ‘build’ community, you ‘facilitate’ community.”It’s not all about us, right? It’s not all about the brand. It’s all about them. Joining me for a dynamic discussion to share the lesson behind that story, along with many more lesson-filled stories, is  Dr. Marcus Collins, Head of Strategy, Wieden+Kennedy New York (WKNY) (https://www.wk.com/), and Clinical Assistant Professor of Marketing, University of Michigan’s Ross School of Business (https://michiganross.umich.edu/).Wieden + Kennedy had $413.5 million in 2021 revenue, according to Campaign.Collins is in charge of the strategy department and leads a team of 70 at WKNY.Listen to our conversation using this embedded player or click through to your preferred audio streaming service using the links below it.Stories (with lessons) about what he made in marketingSome lessons from Collins that emerged in our discussion:Identity is more important than value propositionsYou don’t “build" community, you “facilitate” communityWhen people feel seen, they also feel heard.If you have an idea and it’s logical but people don’t get it, then you’re probably on to something even if people make you feel like you’re wrongThe most powerful skill you can have is the ability to communicate—clearly and evocativelyExecution without good theory is a practice of luck, not strategyRelated content mentioned in this episodeValue Proposition Definition: Optimize your conversion rate with this powerful question (https://meclabs.com/course/sessions/value-proposition-definition/)PR, Writing, and Marketing Agency Corporate Culture: Think big (podcast episode #49) (https://www.marketingsherpa.com/article/interview/PR)Customer-First Marketing: A conversation with Wharton, MarketingSherpa, and MECLABS Institute (https://sherpablog.marketingsherpa.com/consumer-marketing/wharton-interview-customer-first-marketing/)Evidence-based Marketing: How to overcome the overconfidence bias (https://marketingexperiments.com/conversion-marketing/evidence-based-overconfidence)About this podcastThis podcast is not about marketing – it is about the marketer. It draws its inspiration from the Flint McGlaughlin quote, “The key to transformative marketing is a transformed marketer” from the Become a Marketer-Philosopher: Create and optimize high-converting webpages (https://meclabs.com/course/) free marketing course.Apply to be a guestIf you would like to apply to be a guest on How I Made It In Marketing, here is the podcast guest application – https://www.marketingsherpa.com/page/podcast-guest-application

We’ve been exploring AI in the MECLABS SuperFunnel Research Cohort LiveClasses (https://sherpablog.marketingsherpa.com/website-and-landing-page-design/marketer/). But I’ve mostly been thinking of artificial intelligence in a very practical sense.So when our latest guest shared the lesson, “use artificial intelligence and your marketing budget to make your customers’ lives more fun and interesting” I was all ears to learn a new perspective on using AI…and really, a unique perspective on how to approach marketing in general.You can hear the story behind that lesson, and many more lesson-filled stories, from Stacie Grissom, Director of Content & Communications, BARK (https://bark.co/), the maker of BarkBox.BARK has grown from 2,000 subscribers to over 2 million during Grissom’s tenure, where she was employee number three (now there are over 600). Over the last decade, she has hired 40 writers, comedians, and content creators.BARK is a public company traded on the New York Stock Exchange. In its most recent full-year results, the company earned $507.4 million in revenue, a 34% increase year-over-year.Stories (with lessons) about what she made in marketingA viral moment can tie into a PR sprint.You don't need a Super Bowl ad to make a huge impact on social media around the Super Bowl.Contests can hit it big with an audience (even if, or especially if, they are weird and off-putting)React to something that happens online and use it to explode a momentIf you aren't hitting huge moments of growth, rethink the metrics you're targeting so that you can make an impact.Use artificial intelligence and your marketing budget to make your customers’ lives more fun and interestingMove forward and get sh*t doneRelated content mentioned in this episodeNot Enough Lobster In The Ocean: Trusting their gut leads to 90,000% revenue growth at Mint Mobile (podcast episode #11) (https://www.marketingsherpa.com/article/interview/revenue-growth-podcast)SaaS Marketing: Always bring the customer story forward (podcast episode #42) (https://www.marketingsherpa.com/article/interview/SaaS-marketing)About this podcastThis podcast is not about marketing – it is about the marketer. It draws its inspiration from the Flint McGlaughlin quote, “The key to transformative marketing is a transformed marketer” from the Become a Marketer-Philosopher: Create and optimize high-converting webpages (https://meclabs.com/course/) free digital marketing course.Apply to be a guestIf you would like to apply to be a guest on How I Made It In Marketing, here is the podcast guest application – https://www.marketingsherpa.com/page/podcast-guest-application

We had a recent SuperFunnel LiveClass (https://sherpablog.marketingsherpa.com/website-and-landing-page-design/lpo/), and I was giving conversion optimization advice to a participant – it’s live optimization, we see the landing page for a few moments, and then give advice. And the page seemed off to me, so I had specific thoughts on the design and wording and such.And then Flint McGlaughlin went next, and he took a very different approach then I did. He didn’t talk about the page, he talked about the entrepreneur behind this page. Why this offer? Why this product? How many books have you read about this topic in the past 24 months?He hit the underlying problem with the landing page. Not what was on it, per se. It’s what wasn’t beneath it. It didn’t tie into the entrepreneur’s personal value proposition. This person was not tapping into his passion, he was trying to get an offer out into the world and just make money.Who can blame him, you might say. Isn’t that our job?Pushing pixels on a page is not enough – when you don’t truly believe in what you’re selling, it will hurt your marketing effectiveness. Our latest guest tapped into that caution as well. She said, “If you don’t believe in the company or the product, your job as a marketer is going to suck.”So true. And I would add – your marketing is going to suck as well.You can here the story behind that lesson, and many more lesson-filled stories, from Melissa-Ann Chan, Head of Marketing, Arta Finance (https://artafinance.com/).Chan helped take a product from 0 to 100 million users, has worked on many lean teams at Google, and currently works on a team of three, along with a “bunch of contractors,” at the Series A startup.While in stealth mode, Arta Finance raised more than $90 million from Sequoia Capital India, Ribbit Capital, Coatue, and more than 140 tech and finance luminaries.Some lessons from Chan that emerged in our discussion:If you don’t believe in the company or the product, your job as a marketer is going to suck. Put the most effort into figuring out what’s the magic ‘a-ha!’ moment of your customer, and relentlessly drive all your marketing efforts towards that.     Putting the user first doesn’t always mean doing whatever users want.High-performing teams don’t happen serendipitously Creativity and technology is a killer combo Cross-functional Power: Bring together product, engineering, UX, and marketing – and watch the sparks fly – in a good way!   Related content mentioned in this episodeContent Marketing: Harvard Business School’s Michael Norton discusses surprising consumer behavior research (https://sherpablog.marketingsherpa.com/marketing/content-marketing-consumer-behavior-research/)Customer-First Marketing: A conversation with Wharton, MarketingSherpa, and MECLABS Institute (https://sherpablog.marketingsherpa.com/consumer-marketing/wharton-interview-customer-first-marketing/)Above-the-Fold Psychology: How to optimize the top 4 inches of your webpage (https://meclabs.com/course/sessions/above-the-fold-psychology/)Apply to be a guestIf you would like to apply to be a guest on How I Made It In Marketing, here is the podcast guest application – https://www.marketingsherpa.com/page/podcast-guest-application

“Position the customer’s ‘gain’ as the direct object of the sentence,” Flint McGlaughlin taught in Headline Examples: 3 ways to load your predicate with value (https://meclabs.com/course/sessions/headline-examples/).I thought of this lesson when I heard a lesson from this episode’s guest – “charge what it is worth, not what it costs.”You can only charge what it is worth if the customer perceives that value. To help them perceive the value, your messaging must emphasize the customer’s gain.So I asked our guest about this, specifically in regards to his story about using a celebrity endorser for a B2B event.You can hear the answer to that question, along with many more lesson-filled stories, from Jeff Bradford, President, Dalton Nashville (https://daltonagency.com/), on this episode of the How I Made It In Marketing podcast.Dalton is a $12 million agency that was founded in 1989 and has 100 employees.Bradford is the only seven-time winner of the Nashville Business Journal’s Most Admired CEO Award. He manages a team of 12 on five accounts at Dalton. He is author of the book The Joy of Propaganda: The How and Why of Public Relations and Marketing (https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-joy-of-propaganda-jeff-bradford/1142922872).Stories (with lessons) about what he made in marketingHarness word-of-mouth marketing by making influential people feel special.Handling a media crisis begins long before the crisis.Charge what is it worth, not what it costs.The most important thing when merging companies is the two owners should understand and trust each other.Think big.Well-crafted video can shape perceptions by connecting emotionally with your audience.The manner in which you present your message, and the environment in which it is presented, is just as important (if not more so) than the content of your message.Related content mentioned in this episodeThe Prospect’s Perception Gap: How to bridge the gap between the results we want and the results we have (https://meclabs.com/education/Flint-prospects-perception-gap)About this podcastThis podcast is not about marketing – it is about the marketer. It draws its inspiration from the Flint McGlaughlin quote, “The key to transformative marketing is a transformed marketer” from the Become a Marketer-Philosopher: Create and optimize high-converting webpages (https://meclabs.com/course/) free digital marketing course.Apply to be a guestIf you would like to apply to be a guest on How I Made It In Marketing, here is the podcast guest application – https://www.marketingsherpa.com/page/podcast-guest-application

Differentiation is key in marketing. And now with the rise of AI, I can’t help but think – how can I differentiate from generative artificial intelligence?One way – our unique backgrounds.An example. Our CEO’s book – The Marketer as Philosopher: 40 Brief Reflections on the Power of Your Value Proposition (https://meclabs.com/course/the-marketer-as-philosopher/). This book is wildly different than what an AI would write. And just as different from most business books you’ll see – which sometimes seem as formulaic as an AI writer. There are reflections, not directions. There are da Vinci-style illustrations illuminating the core concepts. The book is bound in leather. I think Flint McGlaughlin was able to create it because of his unique background – theology and philosophy combined with marketing bound all together in one human being.I thought of the importance of our unique backgrounds while talking to our latest guest on How I Made It In Marketing. His background was no less unique – West Texas, childhood illness, art school, world travel, Hollywood, and now – marketing.One of the lessons he shared was “make the work you would like to see.” So, I asked him about how one’s unique background affects and informs that ethos. While we can all learn the same marketing skills, they are powered by this fingerprint that no one else has – our lived experienced.You can hear his answer to my question, along with many more lesson-filled stories from a colorful career, in the latest episode of the How I Made It In Marketing podcast. Our guest is Justin Herber, CMO and Chief Brand Officer, Tractor Beverage Company (https://drinktractor.com/).Tractor is the first and only Certified Organic, Non-GMO, full-line beverage solution in food service. It is #216 on the Inc. 5000 list of fastest-growing companies, having grown 2,520% in the past year.Herber manages a team of 11, along with three agency partners.Stories (with lessons) about what he made in marketingSome lessons from Herber that emerged in our discussion:Create your own wayDon't pay for experiences, let experiences pay for youMake the work you would like to seePursue the best version of what an idea could beEmbrace healthy frictionOwn your role in the relationshipCarefully cultivate and curateDon't be a dickRelated content mentioned in this episodeHard To Stay In Business Against Us: Raising the barrier to entry in the escape room industry (Podcast Episode #12) (https://www.marketingsherpa.com/article/interview/escape-room)Copywriting: 8 examples of successful marketing copy (https://www.marketingsherpa.com/article/other/8-examples-of-successful-marketing-copy)Team Building: Loyalty, relationships, pre-selling, and other keys to marketing management success (Podcast Episode #16) (https://www.marketingsherpa.com/article/interview/team-building)Apply to be a guestIf you would like to apply to be a guest on How I Made It In Marketing, here is the podcast guest application – https://www.marketingsherpa.com/page/podcast-guest-application

“Refine your value prop until it becomes a reason…the summation of a rational/emotional argument,” Flint McGlaughlin teaches in Value Proposition Power: 3 ways to intensify the force of your value proposition (https://meclabs.com/course/sessions/value-proposition-power/) (McGlaughlin is CEO of MarketingSherpa and MECLABS Institute).I thought of this lesson while reading through the podcast guest application for the latest guest on the How I Made It In Marketing podcast. She markets to physicians, a perfect example of an ideal customer that needs to hear a rational (there is scientific evidence that this works) and emotional (the human beings in your care will be helped by this) argument.You can hear how she responded to that question, along with lesson-filled stories from her career, in this episode with Laura Ayala, Vice President of Marketing and Customer Experience, Karius (https://kariusdx.com/).Karius has most recently raised $165 million from a Series B funding round led by Softbank’s Vision Fund 2 and $255 million funding in total. Its liquid biopsy for infections diseases got the company named to the Forbes AI 50, a list of the most promising artificial intelligence companies. Ayala manages a team of 12 marketing and customer success professionals, along with five agencies.Stories (with lessons) about what she made in marketingSome lessons from Ayala that emerged in our discussion:No room for error in healthcare marketing (exciting terms like “new product” and “novel” actually scare doctors)Strike a balance between thoroughness and effectiveness.There is value in persistence, grit, and sticking to your convictions.The power of the story and the importance of repetition.Grit and resilience.Understand your customer and how to deliver your message effectively.Related content mentioned in this episodeE-commerce: Testing value proposition leads to 220% increase in total conversions (https://www.marketingsherpa.com/video/testing-value-proposition-conversion-increase)How I Made It In Marketing podcast (https://www.marketingsherpa.com/podcast)Healthcare Marketing Leadership: Build communities…not a customer list, walk your own path, take care of yourself (podcast episode #30) (https://www.marketingsherpa.com/article/interview/healthcare-marketing-leadership)5 mini case studies about understanding and serving the customer (https://www.marketingsherpa.com/article/case-study/understanding-what-customers-want-5-mini-case-studies)About this podcastThis podcast is not about marketing – it is about the marketer. It draws its inspiration from the Flint McGlaughlin quote, “The key to transformative marketing is a transformed marketer” from the Become a Marketer-Philosopher: Create and optimize high-converting webpages (https://meclabs.com/course/) free digital marketing course.Apply to be a guestIf you would like to apply to be a guest on How I Made It In Marketing, here is the podcast guest application – https://www.marketingsherpa.com/page/podcast-guest-application

“Remember that the customer is the subject and your offer is the object,” Flint McGlaughlin taught in Effective Headlines: How to write the first 4 words for maximum conversion (https://meclabs.com/course/sessions/effective-headlines/) (McGlaughlin is the CEO of MECLABS and MarketingSherpa).I thought of this quote when our latest guest talked about essentialism. One place I see scope creep and bloat is in messaging – we get so focused on our own product and company we forget that our customer doesn’t know (or care) about our product…they care about themselves. Our guest said his job is simplification, and keeps his message about complex health care products simple by using this litmus test – “if I explained this to my mother or father, how could I message it so they could clearly understand it?”Learn more about the mental model our guest uses to keep his brand’s marketing communication as simple and easy-to-digest as possible in this episode of the How I Made It In Marketing podcast. I sat down with Jake Watts, Vice President of Marketing, PDI (https://wearepdi.com/en-us/).PDI is a privately held, third-generation, family-owned company. It currently has 1,000 employees. Over 75% of US hospitals trust PDI for surface disinfection. As head of Healthcare Marketing for PDI, Watts oversees a team of eight marketing professionals.Stories (with lessons) about what he made in marketingSome lessons from Watts that emerged in our discussion:You never have the right answers, to begin with.You should almost always do less than you think.You don’t need to go looking for good ideas, they’re already in your org.Boldness, and clarity, of vision are what motivates teams to sign up for the previously unthinkable.Radical simplicity plus alignment is key to leading large and challenging organizations towards new business models.Leadership Happens Outside the Boardroom – Why empathy is the greatest, hidden competitive advantage in organizations.Related content mentioned in this episodeThe Behind-the-scenes Story of How We Optimized Outdoor Advertising That Was Featured in a USA Today Article (https://marketingexperiments.com/value-proposition/optimized-outdoor-advertising-bairfind)The Compounding ROI of Sequential Conversion Increases: How one company took a small gain and multiplied it tenfold (https://marketingexperiments.com/journals/3rd%20Quarter%20(2010)%20-%20MEx%20Research%20Journal.pdf#page=6) (instant PDF download)Don’t Give Clients What They Want: “That’s also the name of a convention for adults who dress as toddlers” – Podcast Episode #6 (https://www.marketingsherpa.com/article/interview/client-management)About this podcastThis podcast is not about marketing – it is about the marketer. It draws its inspiration from the Flint McGlaughlin quote, “The key to transformative marketing is a transformed marketer” from the Become a Marketer-Philosopher: Create and optimize high-converting webpages (https://meclabs.com/course/) free digital marketing course.Apply to be a guestIf you would like to apply to be a guest on How I Made It In Marketing, here is the podcast guest application – https://www.marketingsherpa.com/page/podcast-guest-application