

No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp
Tokens Media
What does it really mean to live a good life—in our politics, our faith, our work, and our relationships?
On No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp, we explore the ideas, practices, and public debates that shape human flourishing today. Each week you’ll hear thought-provoking conversations with bestselling authors, philosophers, neuroscientists, psychologists, theologians, artists, and political leaders—people wrestling with the biggest questions of meaning and purpose in our time.
Together we ask:
How can religion be a force for healing instead of division?
What does neuroscience reveal about happiness, habits, and productivity?
Where do politics and justice meet the pursuit of the common good?
How do truth, beauty, and goodness help us live well—personally and collectively?
If you care about faith, politics, social justice, science, or the search for meaning, you’ll find courageous, practical conversations here. Because pursuing a meaningful life is no small endeavor—and we’re with you on the road.
Learn more at nosmallendeavor.com.
On No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp, we explore the ideas, practices, and public debates that shape human flourishing today. Each week you’ll hear thought-provoking conversations with bestselling authors, philosophers, neuroscientists, psychologists, theologians, artists, and political leaders—people wrestling with the biggest questions of meaning and purpose in our time.
Together we ask:
How can religion be a force for healing instead of division?
What does neuroscience reveal about happiness, habits, and productivity?
Where do politics and justice meet the pursuit of the common good?
How do truth, beauty, and goodness help us live well—personally and collectively?
If you care about faith, politics, social justice, science, or the search for meaning, you’ll find courageous, practical conversations here. Because pursuing a meaningful life is no small endeavor—and we’re with you on the road.
Learn more at nosmallendeavor.com.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Sep 14, 2023 • 54min
121: Esau McCaulley: How Far to the Promised Land?
What is it like growing up Black in the American South?
The question is too particular to answer with abstraction. Instead, Esau McCaulley answers it in the most personal, humble way available, by telling the story of his family in his new memoir, “How Far to the Promised Land: One Black Family's Story of Hope and Survival in the American South.”
When he was asked to give the eulogy at his father’s funeral, Esau was sparked to examine his own childhood and dig into his family’s past. In the process, he engaged with the complexity of US history, and its impact on some of the most important questions of our time. In this episode, Esau discusses what he uncovered, and, careful not to generalize, describes what the experience taught him about race, faith, and the culture of the South in the United States.
Show Notes:
Similar episodes
The Architect of the American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson
Doing Justice Alongside MLK and Rosa Parks: Dr. Fred Gray
Eddie Glaude: On James Baldwin’s America
Thou Shalt Not Be a Jerk: Eugene Cho
White Too Long: Robert Jones
Resources mentioned this episode
How Far to the Promised Land by Esau McCaulley
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link
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Sep 12, 2023 • 51min
120: Unabridged Interview: Eddie Glaude
This is our unabridged interview with Eddie Glaude.
Why are there different narratives around race in the United States?
Some believe that the US is a “shining city on a hill” which stands as a beacon of truth and justice in the world. But those paying attention to the country’s inner conflicts - most notably its violent, graphic history of deep-seated racism - sense some major contradictions in such a narrative. To use the famous words of James Baldwin, such idealism is “The Lie” that the country has been trying to preserve since its inception.
In this episode, Dr. Eddie Glaude discusses his book Begin Again: James Baldwin's America and Its Urgent Lessons for Our Own, which calls for a reckoning for the people and institutions responsible for perpetuating “The Lie,” and offers hopeful counter-truth that he believes can help us reform and reset after the wrongs that have been done.
Show Notes
Similar episodes:
The Architect of the American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson
Doing Justice Alongside MLK and Rosa Parks: Dr. Fred Gray
Tuskegee, Healthcare, Justice: Quincy Byrdsong
Resources mentioned this episode:
Begin Again: James Baldwin’s America and Its Urgent Lessons for Our Own by Eddie Glaude
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link
Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube
Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter
Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com
Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium
See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy
Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course
Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sep 7, 2023 • 54min
120: Eddie Glaude: On James Baldwin's America (Best of NSE)
Why are there different narratives around race in the United States?
Some believe that the US is a “shining city on a hill” which stands as a beacon of truth and justice in the world. But those paying attention to the country’s inner conflicts - most notably its violent, graphic history of deep-seated racism - sense some major contradictions in such a narrative. To use the famous words of James Baldwin, such idealism is “The Lie” that the country has been trying to preserve since its inception.
In this episode, Dr. Eddie Glaude discusses his book Begin Again: James Baldwin's America and Its Urgent Lessons for Our Own, which calls for a reckoning for the people and institutions responsible for perpetuating “The Lie,” and offers hopeful counter-truth that he believes can help us reform and reset after the wrongs that have been done.
Show Notes
Similar episodes:
The Architect of the American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson
Doing Justice Alongside MLK and Rosa Parks: Dr. Fred Gray
Tuskegee, Healthcare, Justice: Quincy Byrdsong
Resources mentioned this episode:
Begin Again: James Baldwin’s America and Its Urgent Lessons for Our Own by Eddie Glaude
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link
Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube
Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter
Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com
Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium
See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy
Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course
Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sep 5, 2023 • 1h
119: Unabridged Interview: David DeSteno
This is our unabridged interview with David Desteno.
Does religion make you happier?
These days, many of us are prone to see religion as an artifact of pre-scientific humanity, full of non-scientific claims. For that reason, religion often gets written off as having no measurable value for everyday life. But what if the so-called goods of religion could be studied?
In his most recent book How God Works, psychologist David DeSteno, suggests that religion has indeed been studied in this way, and that the results could change the way religion is viewed in the public sphere. In this episode, we hear from David as he discusses the ways the world’s great religious traditions line up with cutting-edge psychological and neuroscientific findings - in other words, the ways in which religion leads to a longer, happier, healthier life.
Show Notes:
Similar episodes
The Power of Being Known: Curt Thompson
What Hath Christianity to do with Psychology?: Mark McMinn
The Power of Sabbath Rest: Judith Shulevitz
Seven Ways to Ruin Your Life: Rebecca DeYoung
Resources mentioned this episode
How God Works by David Desteno
How God Works Podcast
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link
Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube
Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter
Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com
Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium
See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy
Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course
Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Aug 31, 2023 • 55min
119: David DeSteno: Can Religion Make You Happier? The Surprising Scientific Findings of Ancient Religious Practice (Best of NSE)
Does religion make you happier?
These days, many of us are prone to see religion as an artifact of pre-scientific humanity, full of non-scientific claims. For that reason, religion often gets written off as having no measurable value for everyday life. But what if the so-called goods of religion could be studied?
In his most recent book How God Works, psychologist David DeSteno, suggests that religion has indeed been studied in this way, and that the results could change the way religion is viewed in the public sphere. In this episode, we hear from David as he discusses the ways the world’s great religious traditions line up with cutting-edge psychological and neuroscientific findings - in other words, the ways in which religion leads to a longer, happier, healthier life.
Show Notes:
Similar episodes
The Power of Being Known: Curt Thompson
What Hath Christianity to do with Psychology?: Mark McMinn
The Power of Sabbath Rest: Judith Shulevitz
Seven Ways to Ruin Your Life: Rebecca DeYoung
Resources mentioned this episode
How God Works by David Desteno
How God Works Podcast
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link
Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube
Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter
Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com
Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium
See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy
Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course
Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Aug 29, 2023 • 1h
118: Unabridged Interview: Johnnyswim
This is our unabridged interview with Johnnyswim.
What is it like to be a famous musical duo, on the road all the time, and married with kids?
That’s the life of Amanda Sudano and Abner Ramirez, more widely known as folk-pop band Johnnyswim, whose eclectic life is put on full display in their two reality television shows, “The Johnnyswim Show” and “In the Kitchen with Abner + Amanda.” Amanda's mother was the legendary Disco Queen Donna Summer; meanwhile, Abner's family experienced the intense political turmoil of 20th century Cuba, emigrating to the United States in the Mariel Boatlift in 1980.
In this exclusive interview, they discuss everything from family history, to touring life, to activism and faith. Plus, we include their musical performance from a No Small Endeavor show at the Ryman Auditorium in Nashville.
Show Notes:
Similar episodes
Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen
Why The New Respects Ain’t Goin’ Nowhere
Thou Shalt Not Be a Jerk: Eugene Cho
Resources mentioned this episode
Johnnyswim’s Website
“Ring the Bells” live performance at the Ryman
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Aug 24, 2023 • 54min
118: Johnnyswim: Reality TV, The Cuban Revolution, and a Disco Queen Mother (Best of NSE)
What is it like to be a famous musical duo, on the road all the time, and married with kids?
That’s the life of Amanda Sudano and Abner Ramirez, more widely known as folk-pop band Johnnyswim, whose eclectic life is put on full display in their two reality television shows, “The Johnnyswim Show” and “In the Kitchen with Abner + Amanda.” Amanda's mother was the legendary Disco Queen Donna Summer; meanwhile, Abner's family experienced the intense political turmoil of 20th century Cuba, emigrating to the United States in the Mariel Boatlift in 1980.
In this exclusive interview, they discuss everything from family history, to touring life, to activism and faith. Plus, we include their musical performance from a No Small Endeavor show at the Ryman Auditorium in Nashville.
Show Notes:
Similar episodes
Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen
Why The New Respects Ain’t Goin’ Nowhere
Thou Shalt Not Be a Jerk: Eugene Cho
Resources mentioned this episode
Johnnyswim’s Website
“Ring the Bells” live performance at the Ryman
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Aug 22, 2023 • 1h 9min
117: Unabridged Interview: Oliver Burkeman
This is our unabridged interview with Oliver Burkeman.
In an age full of life hacks, self-help books, and productivity gurus, many of us only end up busier and more stressed than we were before. What if there’s a better way to live a full, fruitful life?
"The world is bursting with wonder,” says Oliver Burkeman, “and yet it's the rare productivity guru who seems to have considered the possibility that the ultimate point of all our frenetic doing might be to experience more of that wonder."
In this episode, he discusses his New York Times Bestselling book 4000 Weeks: Time Management for Mortals, dispelling many contemporary ideas about productivity, and instead suggesting a wonder-fueled, counterintuitive method for flourishing in the world.
Show Notes:
Similar episodes:
Seven Ways to Ruin Your Life: Rebecca DeYoung
The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry: John Mark Comer
The Power of Sabbath Rest: Judith Shulevitz
Resources mentioned in this episode
A Testament of Devotion by Thomas Raymond Kelly
Catherine Andrews, "Why You're Going About Recovering from Perfectionism All Wrong"
Man’s Search for Meaning by Victor Frankl
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link
Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube
Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter
Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com
Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium
See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy
Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course
Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

10 snips
Aug 17, 2023 • 55min
117: Oliver Burkeman: Time Management for Mortals (Best of NSE)
In an age full of life hacks, self-help books, and productivity gurus, many of us only end up busier and more stressed than we were before. What if there’s a better way to live a full, fruitful life?
"The world is bursting with wonder,” says Oliver Burkeman, “and yet it's the rare productivity guru who seems to have considered the possibility that the ultimate point of all our frenetic doing might be to experience more of that wonder."
In this episode, he discusses his New York Times Bestselling book 4000 Weeks: Time Management for Mortals, dispelling many contemporary ideas about productivity, and instead suggesting a wonder-fueled, counterintuitive method for flourishing in the world.
Show Notes:
Similar episodes:
Seven Ways to Ruin Your Life: Rebecca DeYoung
The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry: John Mark Comer
The Power of Sabbath Rest: Judith Shulevitz
Resources mentioned in this episode
A Testament of Devotion by Thomas Raymond Kelly
Catherine Andrews, "Why You're Going About Recovering from Perfectionism All Wrong"
Man’s Search for Meaning by Victor Frankl
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link
Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube
Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter
Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com
Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium
See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy
Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course
Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Aug 15, 2023 • 1h 39min
116: Unabridged Interview: Charlie Strobel
This is our unabridged interview with Charles Strobel.
On August 6th, 2023, at the age of 80, Charles Strobel, affectionately known as Charlie, left us. Today, we revisit our 2020 interview with him. A true Nashville icon, he was once hailed as "Tennesseean of the Year." As a Catholic priest and the visionary behind Room In The Inn, a Nashville-based non-profit dedicated to offering hospitality, education, community, and employment to those experiencing homelessness, Charlie's impact was immeasurable.
Join us in this special episode where he shares captivating anecdotes from his life, recounting his journey from living among the homeless to founding a shelter for them. He candidly discusses his battles with depression and the transformative power of therapy. Incredibly, he opens up about his journey to forgive the individual who took his mother's life.
Charlie's existence epitomized the essence of a well-lived life, making him an extraordinary example to us all. As we mourn his passing, let's celebrate the legacy he leaves behind.
Show Notes:
Similar episodes
Ending Violence Through Forgiveness: Azim Khamisa
Burying 250 Friends: Greg Boyle on Community Amidst Gang Violence
Resources mentioned this episode
Room In The Inn
Charlie’s Obituary
Transcription Link for Abridged Episode
PDF of Lee's Interview Notes
Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube
Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter
Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com
Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium
See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy
Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course
Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices