

No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp
Tokens Media
What does it really mean to live a good life—in our politics, our faith, our work, and our relationships?
On No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp, we explore the ideas, practices, and public debates that shape human flourishing today. Each week you’ll hear thought-provoking conversations with bestselling authors, philosophers, neuroscientists, psychologists, theologians, artists, and political leaders—people wrestling with the biggest questions of meaning and purpose in our time.
Together we ask:
How can religion be a force for healing instead of division?
What does neuroscience reveal about happiness, habits, and productivity?
Where do politics and justice meet the pursuit of the common good?
How do truth, beauty, and goodness help us live well—personally and collectively?
If you care about faith, politics, social justice, science, or the search for meaning, you’ll find courageous, practical conversations here. Because pursuing a meaningful life is no small endeavor—and we’re with you on the road.
Learn more at nosmallendeavor.com.
On No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp, we explore the ideas, practices, and public debates that shape human flourishing today. Each week you’ll hear thought-provoking conversations with bestselling authors, philosophers, neuroscientists, psychologists, theologians, artists, and political leaders—people wrestling with the biggest questions of meaning and purpose in our time.
Together we ask:
How can religion be a force for healing instead of division?
What does neuroscience reveal about happiness, habits, and productivity?
Where do politics and justice meet the pursuit of the common good?
How do truth, beauty, and goodness help us live well—personally and collectively?
If you care about faith, politics, social justice, science, or the search for meaning, you’ll find courageous, practical conversations here. Because pursuing a meaningful life is no small endeavor—and we’re with you on the road.
Learn more at nosmallendeavor.com.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Oct 17, 2023 • 1h 11min
125: Unabridged Interview: Meghan O'Gieblyn
Meghan O'Gieblyn, an award-winning author, dives deep into the implications of AI on humanity. She tackles the fears of a robot apocalypse and questions the reliability of artificial intelligence. O'Gieblyn discusses the ethical challenges posed by opaque algorithms and the societal biases they may reflect. She examines the intersection of technology with theology, emphasizing the need for human values in shaping AI's future. The conversation unveils the intricacies of human experience versus machine intellect and urges collective responsibility in this evolving landscape.

Oct 12, 2023 • 54min
125: Meghan O’Gieblyn: Technology and Humanity
Will technology change what it means to be human?Thanks to the rise and implementation of Artificial Intelligence (AI), the common sci-fi trope of a machine-perpetuated apocalypse has taken on a new gravity in recent days. But is Chat GPT really going to rebel against humans, or even change things very much at all?“We're at the point where we do have technologies that are incredibly powerful,” says writer and commentator Meghan O’Gieblyn. “They're able to do things that they weren't programmed to do.”In this episode, Meghan discusses AI in great detail, and lays out what she believes to be the social, political, ethical, and even theological issues at stake as humanity learns to live with new technology. Show NotesSimilar episodes:The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure: Anna LembkeThe Most Polarized Issue in the United States: Katharine HayhoeBeyond Fake News: Justin McBrayerResources mentioned this episode:Meghan’s websiteGod, Human, Animal, Machine by Meghan O’GieblynPDF of Lee’s Interview NotesTranscriptJoin NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live showsSubscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.comSee Privacy Policy: Privacy PolicyAmazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Oct 10, 2023 • 1h 9min
124: Unabridged Interview: Amy Grant
Five weeks before her 16th birthday in 1976, Amy Grant was offered her first record deal. Now, after tens of millions of record sales, six Grammy awards, a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, and a receipt of Kennedy Center Honors, she is widely recognized as the “Queen of Christian Pop.”
From the outside, one might assume that Amy must be a character with a personality larger than life. But in this exclusive interview, Amy opens up about her career as a singer, her family life, and her faith, all against the backdrop of a troubling past few years which have included recovering from open-heart surgery and a severe bike accident.
Through it all, she showcases what truly makes her an anomaly. In spite of her fame, she remains undoubtedly grounded to a life of quiet, peaceful fulfillment.
Show Notes:
Similar episodes
Truth-telling, Anger, and Race: Vince Gill
“Does This Make My Butt Look Big?”: Ashley Cleveland
Fighting Dragons and Singing at Loss: Drew Holcomb
Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen
Resources mentioned this episode
Amy Grant’s website
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcript for Abridged Episode
JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows
Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube
Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter
Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com
See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy
Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Oct 5, 2023 • 54min
124: Amy Grant: Fame, Vulnerability, and Staying Grounded
Five weeks before her 16th birthday in 1976, Amy Grant was offered her first record deal. Now, after tens of millions of record sales, six Grammy awards, a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, and a receipt of Kennedy Center Honors, she is widely recognized as the “Queen of Christian Pop.”
From the outside, one might assume that Amy must be a character with a personality larger than life. But in this exclusive interview, Amy opens up about her career as a singer, her family life, and her faith, all against the backdrop of a troubling past few years which have included recovering from open-heart surgery and a severe bike accident.
Through it all, she showcases what truly makes her an anomaly. In spite of her fame, she remains undoubtedly grounded to a life of quiet, peaceful fulfillment.
Show Notes:
Similar episodes
Truth-telling, Anger, and Race: Vince Gill
“Does This Make My Butt Look Big?”: Ashley Cleveland
Fighting Dragons and Singing at Loss: Drew Holcomb
Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen
Resources mentioned this episode
Amy Grant’s website
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link
JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows
Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube
Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter
Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com
See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy
Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Oct 4, 2023 • 10min
Announcing NSE+
We’re excited to announce our new subscriber program NSE+, a $5/month subscription including a monthly bonus episode from Lee Camp, designed to give you practical steps based on the conversations we have on No Small Endeavor. PLUS, with a subscription you’ll receive ad-free listening and discounts to our live shows.
This monthly bonus conversation between Lee Camp and producer, Jakob Lewis, highlights practices and habits they have learned from the many guests on the show over the years. They also speak openly and honestly about the many hindrances and struggles they have pursuing a good life. We'll walk you through practices on the podcast and invite you in to participate and share your experiences, to be featured or discussed on NSE+.
JOIN TODAY
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Oct 3, 2023 • 50min
123: Unabridged Interview: Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz
This is our unabridged episode with Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz.
For all our modern so-called progress, global happiness levels have been consistently going down, especially in the richest and most developed countries.
So what does it really take to be happy?
Since 1938, Harvard scientists have been closely studying the lives of over 700 individuals to answer that very question. In this episode, two of the scientists who are now in charge of the study - Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz - discuss the results of what is known as the “world’s longest study on happiness,” and describe why they believe that meaningful relationships are the key to living a long, happy, flourishing life.
Show Notes:
Similar episodes
David Desteno: Can Religion Make You Happier?
The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure: Anna Lembke and John Mark Comer
The Power of Being Known: Curt Thompson
The Art of Conversation: Heather Holleman
Resources mentioned this episode
The Good Life by Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz
Robert Waldinger’s TED Talk
Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam
WISER tool for relationships: Watch, Interpret, Select, Engage, and Reflect
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link for Abridged Episode
JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows
Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube
Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter
Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com
See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy
Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sep 28, 2023 • 55min
123: Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz: The Good Life - Lessons from the World’s Longest Study on Happiness (Best of NSE)
For all our modern so-called progress, global happiness levels have been consistently going down, especially in the richest and most developed countries.
So what does it really take to be happy?
Since 1938, Harvard scientists have been closely studying the lives of over 700 individuals to answer that very question. In this episode, two of the scientists who are now in charge of the study - Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz - discuss the results of what is known as the “world’s longest study on happiness,” and describe why they believe that meaningful relationships are the key to living a long, happy, flourishing life.
Show Notes:
Similar episodes
David Desteno: Can Religion Make You Happier?
The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure: Anna Lembke and John Mark Comer
The Power of Being Known: Curt Thompson
The Art of Conversation: Heather Holleman
Resources mentioned this episode
The Good Life by Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz
Robert Waldinger’s TED Talk
Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam
WISER tool for relationships: Watch, Interpret, Select, Engage, and Reflect
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link
JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows
Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube
Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter
Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com
See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy
Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sep 26, 2023 • 1h 8min
122: Unabridged Interview: William Paul Young
This is our unabridged episode with William Paul Young.
At age 50, William Paul Young wrote the New York Times best-selling novel “The Shack” as a gift to his kids—only printing copies for his family and friends. Today, it has sold 25 million copies and been turned into a major motion picture.
11 years prior to writing “The Shack,” Paul’s wife discovered he was having an extra-marital affair. With nothing left to hide, he began a journey toward healing and wholeness: dealing with childhood abuse, religious trauma, a host of broken relationships, and a life of constant, exhausting image-management.
Subsequently, he wrote “The Shack” in an attempt to express the nature of what he calls “Divine Love”. In this episode, Paul shares how love, grace, and healing only happen in the present moment, wisdom he gleaned from seeing his own life saved from the brink of falling apart.
Show Notes:
Similar episodes
Parker Palmer: Courage, Vocation, Paradox
Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen
The Power of Being Known: Curt Thompson
Resources mentioned this episode
The Shack by William Paul Young
The Body Keeps The Score by Bessel van der Kolk
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link for Abridged Episode
JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows
Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube
Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter
Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com
See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy
Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sep 21, 2023 • 55min
122: William Paul Young: Author of The Shack (Best of NSE)
At age 50, William Paul Young wrote the New York Times best-selling novel “The Shack” as a gift to his kids—only printing copies for his family and friends. Today, it has sold 25 million copies and been turned into a major motion picture.
11 years prior to writing “The Shack,” Paul’s wife discovered he was having an extra-marital affair. With nothing left to hide, he began a journey toward healing and wholeness: dealing with childhood abuse, religious trauma, a host of broken relationships, and a life of constant, exhausting image-management.
Subsequently, he wrote “The Shack” in an attempt to express the nature of what he calls “Divine Love”. In this episode, Paul shares how love, grace, and healing only happen in the present moment, wisdom he gleaned from seeing his own life saved from the brink of falling apart.
Show Notes:
Similar episodes
Parker Palmer: Courage, Vocation, Paradox
Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen
The Power of Being Known: Curt Thompson
Resources mentioned this episode
The Shack by William Paul Young
The Body Keeps The Score by Bessel van der Kolk
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link
Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube
Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter
Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com
Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium
See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy
Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course
Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sep 19, 2023 • 1h 9min
121: Unabridged Interview: Esau McCaulley
This is our unabridged interview with Esau McCaulley.
What is it like growing up Black in the American South?
The question is too particular to answer with abstraction. Instead, Esau McCaulley answers it in the most personal, humble way available, by telling the story of his family in his new memoir, “How Far to the Promised Land: One Black Family's Story of Hope and Survival in the American South.”
When he was asked to give the eulogy at his father’s funeral, Esau was sparked to examine his own childhood and dig into his family’s past. In the process, he engaged with the complexity of US history, and its impact on some of the most important questions of our time. In this episode, Esau discusses what he uncovered, and, careful not to generalize, describes what the experience taught him about race, faith, and the culture of the South in the United States.
Show Notes:
Similar episodes
The Architect of the American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson
Doing Justice Alongside MLK and Rosa Parks: Dr. Fred Gray
Eddie Glaude: On James Baldwin’s America
Thou Shalt Not Be a Jerk: Eugene Cho
White Too Long: Robert Jones
Resources mentioned this episode
How Far to the Promised Land by Esau McCaulley
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link for Abridged Episode
JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows
Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube
Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter
Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com
See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy
Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices