Marriage After God - Biblical advice, practical tips, and inspiring stories to strengthen your relationship and deepen your spiritual connection

January 6th, 2023, will be our 16th Wedding Anniversary. And with that, we wanted to share 16 of the best pieces of marriage advice and marriage tips we have learned along the way. These pieces of marriage advice have revolutionized our marriage in many ways, and some of them even played a large part in saving our marriage from divorce.Please let us know which piece of advice was your favorite by leaving us a podcast review. A summary of our marriage tips.Pray, A lot!Most likely, you are the one who is wrong.We are finite, limited creatures.Take the next right stepYou and your spouse are on the same teamYour spouse is your type.We are both sinners, and we both need JesusThe Gospel heals allNever talk badly about your spouse in front of others, especially to family. They don't forgetYou and your spouse are on the inside, and everyone else is on the outside. (boundaries0Have fun MORE with each other.Schedule a consistent date night.Have close married friendsNever stop learning about your spouseLearn to forgive quicklyHave children together or adopt!PRAYER FOR YOUR MARRIAGEDear Lord, Thank You for our marriage. Thank You for the opportunities you give us every day to love each other well. We pray we would be wise couples who cling to truth. We pray we would listen to sound marriage advice and apply it. We pray you would continue to mature us and shape our marriage relationship. Increase our ability to love and be known by each other. When fear or doubt creeps into our minds, we pray Your truth will cover us with peace. Please use our marriage to bless each other and use us as a team to bring you glory as we support and encourage other marriages around us.In Jesus’ name AMEN! READ TRANSCRIPTJennifer (00:09):Hi, and welcome to the Marriage After God podcast. Aaron (00:12):We're your hosts Aaron Jennifer Smith. Jennifer (00:13):We have been married 15 years and have five sweet children who are growing up way too fast. Aaron (00:18):We love God and we love marriage, Jennifer (00:20):And we love to be honest about it Aaron (00:21):All. Marriage is not always a walk in the park, but we do believe it has a powerful purpose. So Jennifer (00:26):Our goal here is to open up the conversation to talk about our faith and our marriage, Aaron (00:30):Especially in light of the gospel. Jennifer (00:32):We certainly don't have all the answers, but if you stick around, we may just make you Aaron (00:35):Laugh. But our hope is to encourage you to chase boldly after God's purpose for your life together. Jennifer (00:39):This is after God. Aaron (00:47):Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Marriage After God podcast. I'm Aaron Smith. I'm Jennifer (00:52):Jennifer . I'm Jennifer. Aaron (00:55):I'm Jennifer (00:56):Jennifer. I'm Jennifer. Now. I don't know what my regular is at calling. I'm Jennifer. Aaron (01:01):And we're back for another episode. Episode 12. This is the last episode of season six. Jennifer (01:05):We made it Aaron (01:08):Thinking Made what? . Well, it's not Jennifer (01:10):Easy. This is a big deal for Aaron and I jumping back into podcasting. But we love it and we were already starting to talk about what's up for next season, which will come out early spring. Aaron (01:21):And I'm always like, babe, I wanna get all new equipment. I want to redo our push. She's like, the content's more important. I'm like, . You're right. It's Jennifer (01:28):True though. They're all agreeing with me right now. They are. Okay. So in today's episode, we are going to share our top 10, just kidding, 16 bits of advice we have learned over the 16 years we've been married. Aaron (01:42):One, I did one for each Jennifer (01:43):Year. No, it's great. Okay. It makes sense. I don't know why I said 10. I think it's Cuz most things are like a top 10 Yeah. Thing. But Aaron (01:51):This is 16. It's even, it's six better, Jennifer (01:54):Yeah. Aaron (01:54):16 years. Jennifer (01:55):I think I added one at the bottom. So maybe 17.  Aaron (01:59): a bonus. Jennifer (02:00):It's really how to do all of them. Okay. You'll see. Okay. But before we do that, we must give you our sponsor update. So Aaron and I have written many books, Marriage Resources for You, actually, not even just marriage prayer resources for your son and daughter, for your husband and wife. We have devotionals. We Aaron (02:25):Are praying for your future husband and future wife, Jennifer (02:28):For anyone listening that might Aaron (02:29):Be engaged or know someone engaged. Jennifer (02:32):We also have some traditionally published books, including The Unveiled Wife, which is the beginning of our marriage story and what God walked us through and marriage after God, which is all about your purpose for your marriage. And the reason I'm telling you all of this is because 2023 is right around the corner. And some people like to start off with a bang and start off with something in their hands to encourage them every day to grow closer to God or grow close, closer to their spouse or to their children. And start off the new year. Right? Start off the new year with something tangible to encourage and inspire and move you forward. Right? So move you forward. Move you forward. No, I said it right. So yeah, I just wanted to let you guys know that there are a handful of resources out there for you, from us. Aaron, why don't you tell them where they can get them. Aaron (03:23):You can go to shop dot marriage after god.com and you can get all those books that we wrote. These books. Because when we started this ministry started this business, our thought was we didn't want to just create any old product, something to support ourselves. We wanted to actually produce something Jennifer (03:39):That met a need Aaron (03:40):That and was meaningful and transformative and purposeful. And that's what we did with these books is we wanted to inspire your prayer life. We wanted to get you into a daily devotional. And we used marriage for the most part as the focus of all that to draw you closer to God and to your spouse. And so if you wanna support this ministry, if you wanna support this podcast go pick up a book and tell someone about it. If you already have our books, we just wanna say thank you because you've there. There's so many people that have gotten our books and have told us what they've meant to them. And we just wanna thank you for that. So if you already do have the book or one of our books, get another one of our books maybe. Or tell someone about 'em a big way to support the ministry as well, Jennifer (04:23):Or to go another step grab husband and wife after God and tell another couple to get husband and wife after God or get it for them. And then you guys go through it together. And then once a week or once every other week, talk about it. We've Aaron (04:38):Actually had a lot of marriages start small home groups with our devotionals. And I think that would be an amazing thing to do. Last episode, we talked a lot about getting close with other believers, getting in community. This is a great way to start that. Yeah. Jennifer (04:54):Because you have a purpose. You have something to work with. To align Aaron (04:57):With. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, that was it. Topic today, 16, Jennifer (05:03):Moving right along Aaron (05:04):16 years and 16 little bits of advice. Jennifer (05:10):Although when I was going through this list that we've made there was one that came very early on in the marriage that you did not put on here. It's the one that stands out to me. Should we one of these? No, I don't wanna replace any of 'em because it's kind of funny doesn't, not real advice, but maybe it is for some. Oh, what is Aaron (05:27):It? Just, we'll start off with this. Jennifer (05:29):It was a newlywed piece of advice. Someone says to us, if you're going to fight naked, oh yeah. Do you remember that? Yes. Somebody really told us this. And Aaron (05:39):We've had many fights. , naked. I was going to say it. You, Jennifer (05:44):You're like, don't do it. But is it too much to say that there was a time in the beginning of our marriage where it became a joke? It was a joke. I Aaron (05:53):Know. It was also serious. So whoever came up with that advice, didn't know how stubborn someone could be. It didn't matter how naked you are, you could be holding on. You're like, no. Okay. Not Jennifer (06:05):Giving in. Anyways. Hopefully some of you are Aaron (06:07):Fight naked. Yeah, right now. That's the only advice we got for all of our 16 years. Jennifer (06:15):It's not what it's It's brought us this far. Aaron (06:16):It's brought us this far. Guys, . Jennifer (06:19):All right. On a serious note coming in. Oh yep. Coming in at number one, Aaron (06:25): number one. And if you have been following us for any length of time, you should know this one. And the first tip, it is Jennifer (06:35):The most important one. Aaron (06:37):It is the most important Jennifer (06:38):One. Aaron (06:39):Now I beg, should we have put it at the end? Nope. Nope. We're going to just start right off with it. Pray Jennifer (06:45):A lot, A lot. Exclamation mark. Aaron (06:48):Yeah. This is not like, thank you Lord for the food, which you should pray for your food. You should thank Lord for your food. I'm saying pray for everything. It should be so common in your marriage that it is not an awkward, weird thing for you. Would you agree? Jennifer (07:02):Yeah, of course. We have friends of ours who they live outta state, not in our state. And whenever we are in conversation with them, they talk about how they in that week we're knelt down on the floor, face down, crying before the Lord in prayer for each other or for their family. And they had a lot of challenges with just their family and they went through a lot of adoption and stuff with their kids. That was just hard. But I was always encouraged when I heard that their response to it all is prayer, was not just prayer, but they're on their knees, they're face down, praying to the Lord, plea petitioning for his help and support. And then they'd have these wild stories of how God spoke to them or used someone else to encourage them or sent something that they needed and covered things. And it was just, I don't know why that just came to my mind and really inspired me. So I wanted to share Aaron (08:02):It and not just praying when it's hard. I think that's often where we end up in prayer is we're in a hard thing. But pray for everything. Pray with your kids for the good things. Be vocal in front of your wife and in front of your spouse about the things that are on your heart before the Lord. Some notes I have here is regularly going before God with your spouse, for your spouse helps grow you and your spouse. You get to communicate with each other to God. And something that's really neat about that is when you're pla praying out loud, often your spouse gets to hear things that are in inside your heart that have not come out yet. Things that you're concerned about, things that you care about, things that you wanna lift to the Lord. Jennifer (08:54):So there's a revealing, a knowing, proc Aaron (08:57):It. It's exactly what it is. The Bible talks a lot about this being known by God or rather or says knowing God or rather being known by God. It's a powerful thing. So when you're doing this with your spouse, it adds a immensely deep spiritual layer to the knowledge you have of your spouse and with your spouse. Jennifer (09:18):And the more consistent you do it, the easier it becomes. And I just wanted say that because I think sometimes our flesh gets in the way or it feels uncomfortable to pray together. But the more you practice, the more you do, the easier it does become. And I was just thinking as we were talking about prayer, I was thinking about Edie lately. She's just been jumping on the tail end of anyone's prayer. Thank you God for everything. Aaron (09:41):Yeah. She wants to pray every time. And I love it. So prayer, pray a lot make it easier. And I don't wanna put another ad, but I'm one of the reasons we wrote 31 prayers for my Husband through one prayers for my wife is to help in this area, is to be a catalyst and inspiration for your prayer life. To inspire the types of things that you could, should be desired to be praying about. Which Jennifer (10:04):I really like. I really like the subtitle for those books. It's seeing God move in his heart, seeing God move in her heart. Aaron (10:11):Because you're intentionally looking for God to move. You're like, okay, God, which I love. Yeah, I love that. What's number two? Jennifer (10:17):Number two, Aaron (10:18):Tip two, advice two, little snippet. Jennifer (10:21):Most likely always no . Most likely you are the one who is wrong. Aaron (10:27):Okay, let me reiterate that. So this only goes for those that are listening. Most likely you are the one who is wrong. Okay. Ouch. Think about it. But both of you're looking at each other right now. No, I'm talking to you when you fight, when you're in an argument whether or not you think you're Jennifer (10:48):Right. Okay. Even if it's not a fight or an argument, maybe it's a way of doing something like loading the dishwasher. Aaron (10:54):No, don't throw Jennifer (10:56):That in. No, no. I'm just saying cuz it's funny because Aaron (10:58):Usually I'm right when it comes to the Jennifer (11:00):Dishwasher. Aaron thinks I lo the dishwasher wrong and he comes behind me and fixes it. But I'm being completely honest, I'm not, what I'm saying is Aaron (11:06):I'm being completely honest. That's an objective thing I can bring, bring someone in and we'll evaluate or ways of, I'm Jennifer (11:12):Just kidding. I'm just saying it's not always a fighter an argument. Sometimes it's just a way of being or a thought pattern or a habit. You Aaron (11:18):Know what I mean? Yeah. The advice is specifically in a fight or an argument when there's strife. Strife, yeah. When you're walking in strife, it doesn't even matter if you are right. We're called not to walk in strife. Strife is a flesh response. Jennifer (11:35):We're called to be peacemakers. Aaron (11:36):It's sin. So I often, Jennifer and I will be, if we're having a disagreement and I could just feel the Holy Spirit telling me, why are you fighting? Why are you disagree? Why are you filled? Why are you all browed up, Aaron? And I'm like, I'm wrong. I'm wrong. Jennifer (11:55):Then why does it take you so long to tell me that ? I don't know, Jennifer. I don't know. Aaron (12:01):But most likely you're the wrong one who's wrong? And here's the benefit of knowing this. If you both think this man, there'll be much less fights. And if there is a argument, it'll be way shorter. Cuz it'll be so much quicker to be like, Hey, I'm so sorry. I'm wrong. Which is a pretty good way to diffuse any bite. True. I'm wrong. Yeah. That's what I've been trying to say, Jennifer (12:26):. All right. Number three, we are finite limited creatures. Yes we are. Aaron (12:31):We did a podcast about this, I think in season one. Jennifer (12:35):I think we've hit it in every season actually in different ways Aaron (12:38):Because it matters. We forget so quickly how incapable we are of doing everything we want to do. Jennifer, do you have 50 things currently always running through you? The list of your mind always that you wanna do right now? Yes. That you can't do? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Always. We're finite. And the reason this is a good bit of advice for you in your marriage is twofold. If you wife or husband, I'm not going to say who more regularly. They're Jennifer (13:07):Both wrong. So Aaron (13:08):Yeah, they're both wrong than better. Have this list of things that you want to do. It doesn't matter what they are. And you don't realize that you can't possibly do all of it either right now or in the near fu future, but yet you pursue 'em. You're going to push your family and your spouse burnout in a way that's unhealthy and impossible to deal with. Jennifer (13:34):And then you will also meet the devastating effect of unmet expectation and disappointment Aaron (13:44):Every time. But if you recognize, so a piece of advice that gets attached to this device is if you want something, let's say you wanna learn a new skill. I want to play guitar. Jennifer, you want, you're learning guitar Jennifer (13:58):When you get a chance, I want to learn guitar. It's one of the things on the list. Aaron (14:02):It's going to take a sacrifice somewhere else because you can't do that. And everything else you have on your list currently. Jennifer (14:08):That's true. Aaron (14:09):Now that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. And that doesn't mean there's not something on your list that you should get rid of . Because often we fill our time with things that we want to be doing. So if there is something that we wanna do, if there's something that you wanna do with your spouse, then you gotta be real. And you gotta evaluate the things that you're currently doing, the things that you currently fill your time with. And you gotta pick and choose. And that's just a reality is you're a finite limited creature that if you wanna do something over here, then something over there has to give. Yeah. And that's just the reality of Jennifer (14:42):Life. I watched something and they were talking about how we have all these things that we wanna do and because it's our desire to do them, we do pieces of them here, here, but then we start, we'll never do anything. But we never actually do the things that we want. We never, same thing. It's never completed or brought to, there's no closure in it because we didn't ever do it fully. We just did a piece of it. And then we run ourselves into the ground and we're tired and emotionally spent because we're trying to do a million things at once. And the encouragement was if there's something that you can do everything, maybe not. So just do one everything time as long as you do one thing at a time. And so take the first thing that you really wanna accomplish and just focus on that one thing until it's done. And so maybe that also will help bring perspective into this. Aaron (15:31):Yeah. Jennifer (15:32):Point. Good. Yeah. Aaron (15:34):Okay, number four, tip number four. Something that we learned and currently still have to learn all the time. It's Jennifer (15:41):Like an everyday thing. Aaron (15:42):Take the next right step. And what that means is we make a mistake. We said the wrong thing again, we dropped the ball in this area of our marriage, whatever it is, you fill in the blank, you mistepped, right? There's lots of things, what the enemy wants to do, what our flesh wants to do. Sometimes what our spouse says even is like, well you're never going to change. You're just never, you're always going to be at the same. This is who you are. Jennifer (16:17):Or shut down or run away. Aaron (16:20):And instead of doing the next right thing, we do another wrong thing. And the advice is when we fall, we stand up and we say, okay, I may not be able to take back that thing that I just did that misstep, but I can at least try and take the next right step. And what it does is it, it's how the believers believers should walk is that we just keep moving forward. Jennifer (16:49):Is that next right step? Even if we know that it's right, going to feel hard. Aaron (16:54):Yes. Yeah. Cuz sometimes we have some pretty serious consequences to decisions we make, but we don't want, back when I used to be addicted to certain things and had certain sin habits, one thing would happen and I say, well, I might as well do the next thing because I did that one thing and I convinced myself that I should just keep going. That's taking the next wrong step. Jennifer (17:21):Justification for Aaron (17:23):What you do to continuing and sin. So the point is the advice. Don't take that thing you did wrong and make it as an excuse to do another wrong thing. Jennifer (17:33):So how do you filter through your choices and say, okay, this is the next right step. Aaron (17:39):So let's say I lied to you, which I don't, but let's say I did. I don't lie again. I say, okay, I lied. I can't take the lie back. I can reveal that I lied. That's the next right thing. I can repent of that lie. That's the next right thing. I can let my wife know that I'm going to not lie to her again. That's the next right thing. I'm going to continue to pray about why I lied and what led me to that lie. That's the next right thing. But not saying something, that's not the next right thing. That's the next wrong thing. Trying to cover it up. That's the next wrong thing. Trying to justify it. That's the next wrong thing. Trying to minimize it. That's the next wrong thing. So just doing the next right thing, even no matter how hard. Jennifer (18:25):So I feel like you kind of simplified a very intense internal dialogue that one would have after sinning. And so I guess to back it up even further, what place spiritually does a person need to be in to even fill those convictions or understand that process of thought of how you just went through it? Aaron (18:45):I don't know. Jennifer (18:46):Because isn't that the most important thing? I think that to know what the right step is, Aaron (18:50):Well being in the word of God and listening to the Holy Spirit and feeling that conviction from the Lord and just not compounding the wrong things. Because we're going to make mistakes and just know that we're going to make mistakes. But let's not want to make more mistakes because we made right mistakes. Jennifer (19:10):And allow yourself to enter into that place where you're having a conversation with yourself. Oh man, I just messed up. This is the trajectory I wanna go. This is how to get there instead of avoiding that whole thing because it feels hard. Yeah. Yeah. Aaron (19:26):What's piece of advice? Number five? Jennifer (19:28):Number five, you and your spouse are on the same team. This is a good one. And you actually say this out loud, especially when we're going through a hard time or if we are not on the same page about something or mm-hmm. Strife. Yep. They're strife. You're very quick to call out, Hey remember we're on the same team. I've always appreciated that about you. Aaron (19:49):Sometimes I say it with an attitude. Jennifer (19:51):Yeah. But you believe it. and it's con, I believe, and it's convincing. Aaron (19:54):But the power of remembering you're on the same team is, I mean you, everyone's heard the adage divided and conquer. And the Bible even says that a city divided against itself cannot stand a marriage that's divided, cannot stand. If you're constantly thinking, I'm against her, she could. She's against me. We're not on the same page. We're not on the same team. Not going to No, you're not going to win. Yeah. You, you've already lost. Yeah. But you remind yourselves, you're on a team man, that that'll motivate and change every decision you make in your life when you're having, you are having strife, you'll remember, man, I'm angry, but I need to work on how angry I am right now. Cause I don't wanna be angry with my teammate. Yeah. She's my partner, she's my friend, she's my wife. Jennifer (20:40):And to know that you'll be so ineffective. Aaron (20:42):Oh yeah. So knowing you're on the same team, it keeps you it safe in spiritual attack. It's a so much a safer place to be. Even when it comes from the attacks from the world, maybe outside relationships who knows? You name it. Being on the same team makes life so much safer, better Jennifer (21:02):And funner and more powerful, emotionally more stable. Just encouraged. Aaron (21:06):Yeah. You name it all around. Jennifer (21:08):All benefit. Good. Aaron (21:09):Yeah. Oh, especially in parenting. Oh yeah. Oh man. Team, you Jennifer (21:13):Have to be on Aaron (21:14):Team. You have to have the same team. Team. Oh man. Okay. Number six, your spouse. Okay, I have to build this up. Your spouse is your type. Jennifer (21:29):This Aaron (21:29):Seems Jennifer (21:29):Obvious. Who you're attracted to. Aaron (21:31):Yeah. Just, okay Jennifer (21:35):Explain. Aaron (21:35):A friend of mine, Ryan Frederick from fierce marriage.com, he wrote an article about this years ago just talking about how your spouse, he talked about his wife being his standard of beauty. Okay. But that goes both ways. Not just attractiveness, but everything. The kind of man that I am, my hobbies, my things that I enjoy, that's your type. There is no other person out. There's not another man out there that is going to fit your type better than I me. And what I'm saying by this is that's how we should see ourselves. There is no other girl out there for me. There is no other type of woman. There is no other standard of beauty. But you are my standard. There is no, so what that does is if I see a beautiful woman out in public, it doesn't matter. I'll be like, oh, that's not my wife. My wife is beautiful. Jennifer (22:28):Okay. I was just, my question was going to be, is this advice for the person who is thinking, Aaron (22:37):Well, many Jennifer (22:38):Different, well, I guess Aaron (22:39):It's for both many different levels. There could be a lot of discontentment in a marriage of why can't my husband be more like so and Jennifer (22:46):So? Okay, so comparison. Aaron (22:48):Why can't my wife be more like, yeah. Jennifer (22:50):But then there's also the insecurity of one person and how they think their spouse views them. So it's for Aaron (22:57):Both. And then on a deeper, more sinful level, someone who's unsatisfied in their relationship and is looking mm-hmm. Right. For something else like, oh, I'm not satisfied with this person. They should be something else because there's this other person over here that does this and looks like this and sounds like this and that. But our spouse, Jennifer, are my standard of beauty and everything that a woman is to me and vice versa. I am your standard. Jennifer (23:24):This which, okay, go ahead. No, you go ahead. I was going to say continually changes because we're changing. We're constantly changing. And so your standard of beauty for me is increases as I increase with mm-hmm. age and knowledge and Oh, Aaron (23:40):I saw the beauty, speaking of what you just said, sorry, I, my Jennifer (23:43):Body. Yeah. Aaron (23:44):I saw the sweetest. It was a post someone did on Insta on Instagram. And it showed this vile person saying how if their wife ever let their themselves go after marriage, he would leave her. But then it goes from that statement to a guy saying, I'm a photographer. And my wife asked me one time that, why don't I edit her pictures of pictures of her, the way I edit other people's pictures. And I was so confused by it. And she says, well, you get rid of all their flaws and you make them look perfect. And he said, and he, he's thinking, he's thinking. He's like, then I realized I don't edit. I don't do that with her because I don't see those flaws. Everything I see in her I see is our history as everything that's happened to her, all the changes are because we have children together and be because, so it's all those things that she sees as flaws I see as symbols of my love for her. (24:36):Mm-hmm. Is everything that she means to me. Good. And he was crying and I was so good. And that's what made me think of this is that over time we do change. And we don't have a previous standard of like, well you once were this way and you've just lost it. No, you currently are my standard abuse and I love you and I love everything about you. And that doesn't mean that we can't in desire transformation for each other or better men in any areas. But all that to say your spouse is your standard. And as long as we keep that in mind, it actually protects us from a lot of temptations. And also and feeling inadequate. And it goes back to what we talked about last episode, of constantly wanting to affirm our spouse in their beauty, in their character, and all of those things that are good and beautiful and that we love. So Jennifer (25:25):Good. Yeah. What number are we on? Oh seven. We are both sinners and we both need Jesus every Aaron (25:33):Day. No, some of us need more Jesus than others. No, that's the point of this is we're both sinners and we both need Jesus. I think a lot of the times we might calculate, I should say, or evaluate our own shortcomings, our own sins. Much more different than we evaluate our spouses. So like, oh yeah, sure, I've done this, but you did this and this and this. Hold Jennifer (26:02):On, they're going to think I talked to you like that. Aaron (26:04):No, I'm mimicking some other family, not you at all. So no, I'm not mimicking you, I'm just, but that's kind of what we do. We have this dialogue with ourselves of well sure, cuz no one's going to say they're perfect. Maybe someone does. But sure I have this thing over here. But that thing you do, that's the thing that is more important to focus on. And we're going to pick at that. And again, this doesn't mean that we can't call out sin each other and that we shouldn't do that. But it's seeing clearly, Jennifer (26:35):I think there's a reality too that of knowing that you are going to mess up, you're going to make mistakes, you're going to fail, you are going to hurt me at times and I'm going to do that too. And there's going to be times that we walk down some hard roads because of choices that we make. And we need to be able to give each other grace. And we can only do do that if we have received grace from Jesus. Aaron (26:59):And also realizing, man, my wife needs Jesus. I love you and I'm going to pray for you and I wanna give you that grace and mercy that you need cuz that's what I want. And then it goes back to that scripture that where Jesus talks about the plank eye, often we feel like we can see so clearly in our spouse's eyes, the sin that they have without clearly looking inward at our own. And so it helps shape our perspectives of our spouse , when we see clearly of our own. What happened? Jennifer (27:33):What did I say? No, if I wasn't listening, I'm sorry. Oh, I had this Aaron (27:39):Man, it must have been real good what I was sharing. I'm just kidding. Jennifer (27:42):No, but that picture of Oprah where she says you're a winner and they're a winner. We're all winners car for you A coffee . Okay. But I'm like, you're a sinner. I'm a sinner. We're all sinner . Sorry. Aaron (27:52):It's pretty true. Okay. Jennifer (27:54):I'm really sorry. Aaron (27:55):Essentially, it's just No, it's good. It's just shaping our perspectives of each other. Seeing clearly that I am fully capable of working on my own sin and singing inwardly and having a good evaluation and judge so that I can with love and patience, do that for you as well. And that we both knowing, just always remembering we both need Jesus. Jennifer (28:15):I feel like number eight's kind of the same Aaron (28:18):Kind of, well we gave a 17th anyway. So this goes into number eight. The gospel heals all Jennifer (28:29):And always and all the times. Aaron (28:31):Yes, we need Jesus. I know we were talking about that. But this goes into how we do it. This idea of that we become a gospel centric marriage. That we recognize that in every aspect. So if it comes to our parenting, we need more gospel. We need to know that God's transforming us and we need him to work in us so that we can be good parents. Jennifer (28:55):And same with our kids. He's transforming them. Aaron (28:57):They need the gospel also. They need to know that Jesus loves them, that he died for them, that their sins are forgiven and washed away by hit the blood of the cross of Christ. And that we're to belief. And what that means is, so the gospel hills all is that if we operate in our marriage with a workspace mentality, that's not a gospel based mentality. What that means is, until you've done X, until you've done Y, until you've done Z, Jennifer (29:28):Then I'll love you. Or then I'll do this, then I'll do that. Aaron (29:31):Well, yeah, whatever it is or yeah, until you've done this, until you've earned it. But that's not how the gospel works. The gospel believe Jennifer (29:38):Gospel unconditional. Aaron (29:40):So if we go into our relationships with that mentality, if we go into our marriage with the gospel at the center of it, then we realize what our spouse needs more of as the gospel. What we need more of is the gospel. The reason we have this disagreement is because one of us, or both of us are not believing the gospel. We're believing a lie about something or believing we we're owed something. And so it goes back to like, man, I'm not owed anything. Christ gave everything and I can give nothing. Jennifer (30:10):We've experienced a lot of situations in our marriage where there's fi, fighting or disagreement and we're just kind of at each other. And then it takes hours of processing and dialogue and well, what about this? And then you said that. But always when it comes back down to the root cause of whatever the thing is, it's always some thing we're wrestling with some lie that we've believed, some insecurity that we have or a sin problem that Aaron (30:45):We've let Jennifer (30:47):Permeate into our way of being that came out and disrupted life. And that we've had so many moments where we both have encouraged each other to look toward the gospel. Hey, remember? And part of the reconciliation is believing again, what is true? Aaron (31:08):So the gospel, number nine, Jennifer (31:11):Never talk bad about your spouse in front of others, especially to family. Because they don't forget. Aaron (31:17):They don't, Jennifer (31:18):I think we forget that in marriage we're constantly having these interactions and things happening and then we get over them. Or we have a moment of reconciliation and things are fleeting and we're with each other. We chose each other. We are in the day, day out of it all. And when we sidestep and have conversations with others, whether it be family or friends or whoever, and we talk about each other in a negative light that forms an opinion in those other people, those listeners, and they don't get the same process of reconciliation of what happened. They're not a part of that intimacy. So then they're just left with it. Aaron (32:06):Well, and it paints a picture for the person you're talking to. It doesn't portray your spouse as Christ would portray them. And Jennifer (32:19):It's maybe not even how you see them because it's done in emotional distress. Aaron (32:25):An example would be like, man, my wife's always nagging me. That's a very negative thing. Let's say your wife is nagging you. This is not how you're going to fix that. Going and talking is telling someone that all you've done is made your wife an enemy and made your person you're talking to think of them as an enemy, Jennifer (32:44):Left a reputation Aaron (32:45):Mark. Yeah. You're trying and this is what's, what's so destructive about it. You go do that. Going back to a few tips ago where we're on the same team, all you're doing is tearing your own team apart. All you're doing is making your own team weaker. It doesn't make you look any better. It doesn't make you any stronger. Nothing. All it does is make you weaker. Talking about this. And I wanna make one little caveat. This is not to say that you should never go seek counsel on hard things in your marriage when you go to someone that you trust and that lets Jennifer (33:17):You, I think people know the difference between how you're talking about someone. Yes, Aaron (33:21):Yeah, I'm struggling. Yes, this thing happened. I feel like my wife was being mean. Or I feel like my husband said this thing. That's not the same thing as, man, I really don't like so-and-so. Or they always do this y z or I mean, if you've done it, you've done it. And you know what? It sounds like Jennifer (33:36):There's a very respectful way to talk about a situation that you need help with or prayer for Aaron (33:41):Versus Yeah. One is, I love my spouse and I want this situation reconciled. The other is, I hate my spouse and I'm going to say this mean thing about them. Those are the two perspectives. So never talk bad about your spouse in front of others, especially to family, which that trickles into number 10. This was a big one. We had to learn early on. It was very difficult. And I know a lot of marriages, this is, people deal with this. This is a big deal to a Jennifer (34:07):Lot of marriages. This is about boundaries. Aaron (34:08):This is about boundaries. You and your spouse, this is the advice. You and your spouse are on the inside and everyone else is on the outside. Jennifer (34:17):Meaning when it comes to friends, anyone who's not your spouse, Aaron (34:25):That even your kids, Jennifer (34:27):Your spouse comes first. Aaron (34:29):Well, you and your spouse are the ones who dictate how your home operates Jennifer (34:35):Home. No one else. Life, all of it. Aaron (34:37):My mom does not get to come in and say, you should do this, you should do this, you should do this. She can give advice all she wants. That's all it is. Jennifer (34:43):I feel like you're saying it kind Aaron (34:45):Of harsh. I'm sorry, nothing's happened recently. I'm just saying, I'm just trying to be strong with this because there are some people that have allowed other extramarital human beings to Jennifer (34:55):Have way too much influence in not Aaron (34:57):Just influence what's going on. They have more say than their spouse does. And it has been, it's destructive. It's completely, utterly destructive. Remember going back to your team, that's not a team. What you've done is you've, you say you're a team and you're bringing in this outsource outside source Jennifer (35:14):To defend your point or Aaron (35:16):To be on your side. And that is so destructive. No one, no one, but you and your spouse are in charge of what go with the say that happens in your home and how it Jennifer (35:28):Operates. So what Aaron's trying to say is it's good to have wise counsel. Absolutely. Advice, encouragement, people sharing things. I mean, we talk about this all the time, how good it is to be in community and have family and friends who can see what's going on in your life and marriage and parenting and to speak into that. But what he's saying is, when it comes to you and your spouse making decisions for your family, that comes from you two being on the same page. Aaron (35:56):No one else. And so everything else is in unified invited. Yes. Like, hey, we we're going to take your advice that you just gave us and and my wife will evaluate that. So that's number Jennifer (36:09):10. All right. Number 11. Have fun more with each other. . Have fun. Have lots of fun. Be silly. Play, laugh, dance. Why? Aaron (36:20):Because we need fun. Jennifer (36:23):Our bodies were biologically made to respond to humor. Well and memes. No, Aaron (36:31):It's so important. If we're not having fun, I think something's wrong. If we're irritable all the time, bored all the time with each other, we don't get excited around each other. There's gotta be changed. Jennifer (36:46):It sounds like someone needs to play the tortilla game. Aaron (36:48):We need to do the tortilla slap game. I'm going to do that. But number 11, that's a simple one. We don't have much to go with it. But be playful and go. Going back to what I said a little while ago about don't punish the things you not repeated. Don't punish Jennifer (37:03):If your spouse is repeat. If your spouse is trying to be fun with you, don't reject it. Aaron (37:07):Yeah. Be fun back with them. Be more fun back with them. Surprise them. That I would surprise you probably if I played with you cuz you go play with me. That would surprise me. I usually am Jennifer (37:17):Actually, there have been times where you come up and you're trying to dance with me or be romantic cuz that kind of thing. But I'm so caught off guard. I'm like, what are you doing? Aaron (37:25):Well you need to work. Workout it too. Yeah, let's have more fun. Jennifer (37:28):Okay, number 12, I'll do this one. I beat. Yeah, Aaron (37:31):I will do it. 12. Schedule a consistent date night. This is a big deal. Now this doesn't mean if you aren't even capable of getting a couple dates in a row and that that's not the end of the world. Jennifer (37:44):Well it's really how you define a date. Cuz you don't have to go out and spend money or do something. Aaron (37:49):Well, it's an intentional, it's Jennifer (37:50):Being Aaron (37:50):Intentional. A long time with your spouse outside of the home. I would say. Yeah, sometimes you can for a walk. Yeah, you can for a walk. But having it consistent, so the moment we put it on the calendar, Jennifer (37:59):It Aaron (38:00):Happens. It happens way more than it did when we didn't have it on the calendar. Jennifer (38:03):It's definitely a game changer when you have kids, when you start having kids, Aaron (38:07):You gotta schedule that man. Jennifer (38:08):You Aaron (38:08):Got to . Like if it ain't scheduled, it ain't happen on. So it also because it's on the calendar, because it's on the front of your mind. Because we know, oh on this day we're going to have day. It actually heightens your excitement. Jennifer (38:22):You look forward to Aaron (38:23):It. Yeah. You're like, oh, you have something to look forward to. Midweek or whatever it is. So scheduling it, making it consistent. What it does is it means that, let's say you have a season where you can't be going on those dates, sickness, traveling, whatever it is, Jennifer (38:38):It's still going to happen. Aaron (38:39):It's still going to happen. And you're not thinking, I don't remember the last time we went on a date was you're thinking like, oh, I can't wait for the next time we go on a Jennifer (38:46):Date. Some things we love to utilize dates for, especially cuz we have five kids at home and they're getting older and paying attention to every conversation we have is we like to check in with each other. We like to ask how we're doing. We like to dream together and talk about plans for the future and what's working and what's not working and what goals we Aaron (39:04):Have. Almost all of the big things we've done in our life were planned over a date. The house we're in Al almost, I'm pretty sure every single book for the most part was planned over some form of date Jennifer (39:18):Probably. Yeah. I don't know. So Aaron (39:20):I wasn't keeping track. It's pretty amazing. I know number Jennifer (39:22):13, what he is trying to say is amazing. Things happen on date night. Aaron (39:25):Number 13 is probably going to be a hard one for some people. And I don't know why cuz I'm an extrovert, but have, get, grab, make, cultivate, close, married friends Jennifer (39:43):In friendship, Aaron (39:44):Preferably ones who love Jesus. Yeah. This is a non-negotiable people. I can't say it enough. And I know enough people that they will say, I don't have any friends. They will say that almost like it's a trophy. I'm like, that's not a trophy. You need friends. You need people in your life that can come to you and not just you enjoy their company, but they can also tell you when you're being a jerk, they can tell you when, Hey, here's an area in your life you can grow in. And that you could do the same for them. It's such a big deal. I'm not going to, in no small part, in no small way did friends play a role in saving our marriage Jennifer (40:32):Is true. Aaron (40:34):Wasn't the only thing, but it was not the small thing. It was the largest portion of the redemption and restoration of our marriage was close. Christian friends. The benefits of it is you're not alone. And again, some introverts are like, what's wrong with being alone? You're not alone. They remind you, you're not alone. They reach Jennifer (41:04):Out. They support you. Aaron (41:05):They support you. Jennifer (41:07):They give you meals when you're sick, Aaron (41:09):But almost more valuable than those things that they do for you. It makes, it's the ability for you to be a friend, for you to reach out, for you to practice the fruits of the spirit in another person's life. Because often people will say, we've tried and no one will x, Y, z. I'm like, well, are you being the X, y, Z that you want? And a friend the radio station air one always says there's plenty of good nice people or kind people in the world. And if you can't find one, be one. Like be a friend. Be the person you want others to be to you. It's that. That's the golden rule that Jesus teaches is treat others as you'd like to be treated. Have close married friends. This is a non-negotiable you. Your life and marriage will be so much more fruitful and beautiful and powerful and all these good things with good close married Christian friends. Jennifer (42:14):And then what you wanna do is number 12 and 11. So you wanna take, have more Aaron (42:19):Fun? Jennifer (42:20):Do you wanna take those friends? You wanna go on double dates and have more fun together? Yes. Those are some of our favorite dates and memorable moments Aaron (42:28):Together. 13, 12, 11. Yep. Jennifer (42:30):All right. Number 14, never stop learning about your spouse. Never stop studying your spouse. Never stop looking into what they're interested in and get to know them. And Aaron (42:41):This is something that hard for me because I can get so caught up in, not caught up. I'll just say it. Comfortable, lazy. Comfortable. Comfortable. That's so much nicer. Familiar. You familiar? Jennifer (42:52):You Aaron (42:53):Know me. I think I know you are. I I almost more just, I forget to ask how are you doing? What are you learning? But the other day I asked you, I said, what are you learning in the word right now? And you're like, you looked at me. Jennifer (43:06):Well, thank you. I can't. Aaron (43:09):Wow. Jennifer (43:09):I think it had been a while. Aaron (43:10):It had been a while. But you had told me and I trying to remember and I'm trying to, you're growing too. You're even though we're one, you're still a unique individual human being that God's imparting wisdom to and growing and maturing and you're you, you're going through things and you're learning things and you're becoming a older woman. You're not old, but you're becoming an older woman. I'm an older man. You just call me old. No, I said you're not old Jennifer (43:36):Getting Aaron (43:37):Old. But that we would practice. This is a skill that we get to learn over the decades. Jennifer (43:43):Why is it important to know each other in that way? To study each other and to know each other. I'll tell you. Okay. It comes in it handy when you wanna purchase a gift or spoil one another because you already know what that person likes or is interested in. It comes in handy when you're planning date nights or date days because you already know what they've been looking forward to, what they absolutely won't go near. And Aaron (44:11):It gives you ways of encouraging knowing them. So you're like, man, I wanna be growing in this area. It's something I found out about you. I can be like, Hey, you said you wanna be growing this area. How can I help with that? What's ways I can encourage you? Jennifer (44:25):I was going to say prayer. If you know them and you're studying them and you can see without them even explaining to you what they're struggling with or where they're finding success in, you can be praying for those areas. Aaron (44:37):That's real good. Yeah. Keep learning. All right, number 15. All right. This is also a hard one. Could be hard. Learn to forgive quickly. Seriously, Jennifer (44:52):Go. This one took Aaron years to figure out years and I told him every day, can you Aaron (44:58):Forgive me? Is something, it's something we're Jennifer (45:00):All, oh no, I'm sorry. It was saying I'm sorry that that was hard for Aaron (45:05):You. That's the saying. I'm sorry is hard for, do Jennifer (45:07):You remember Aaron (45:07):You forgiving me is what's hard. Jennifer (45:09):Yeah. I totally messed that one up. Aaron, it took you years to say I'm sorry. Even on the silliest of things, man, I do not miss that. Aaron (45:19):Well, yeah, that's another podcast episode Jennifer (45:22):We can talk about. You've grown a lot. Aaron (45:24):So learning to forgive quickly, I just wanna encourage all you listening to go read everything in the New Testament about forgiveness because the Bible is pretty serious about it. We've done some episodes on it, but the quicker you forgive man, the quicker you're back to being on the same page, the quicker you're back to being on the team Jennifer (45:42):And don't do what I did. Don't fool yourself by just saying, I forgive. I forgive you. And because when you don't, because then it just kind of buries itself. I Aaron (45:49):Said, I Jennifer (45:50):Forgive you. It varies itself. You have to stop talking like that. Like me, you guys. I don't talk to him with attitude like Aaron (45:55):That. What's funny is they can hear your voice. Your voice is so much prettier than mine. They know that that's not how you sound. Jennifer (46:01):I hope not. Oh anyways, forgive quickly because it's better for your soul. And there's Aaron (46:07):Last, but definitely not least. And it's also, this is not an extensive list of all of the wisdom that we might have somehow gained over the years. But last one for us. Jennifer (46:19):Well, I'm going to share one at the very end, but go Aaron (46:23):Ahead. We're like at 20. We're not even 20 now. It's like 20. I'm just kidding. Okay, number 16, I'm going to say it and then I'm Jennifer (46:32):Explain. Aaron (46:33):I'm going to explain it Jennifer (46:34):, because it's not straightforward at all. Aaron (46:36):Have children together. . Okay. Someone's like what? Jennifer (46:43):Excuse me. What? . Aaron (46:44):Just listen. Jennifer (46:45):Have children ra raise children together. Aaron (46:48):First of all, children are literally the physical manifestation of two becoming one. Okay? It's both our DNAs, both our images, both our personalities and characters. Both our histories becoming into a new creature, a new creation, a new little person. And I just think that's beautiful and I think that's amazing. Okay. Now, if you can't physically have a baby, cuz I know there are people that this has been a long time prayer and a painful area of their life, that they would love to have children, but they can't. I wanna encourage you to pray about adoption. And to be honest, I'm sure you already are, but this doesn't mean you have to have only biological children have children. One of the most powerful and beautiful things about marriage is that it is between a man and woman. The way God designed it, it's a s, it's the word. (47:47):It's a beautiful, safe Petri dish cultivating little humans that love God. One of the main ministries of a marriage is to when you have children, to raise them to know God, to raise them, to be children who understand the word. And of course trusting the Lord with their salvation, but raising them to know him. Children refine us in a huge way. They refine us. They challenge every aspect of our personality. And faith. And faith. They show us just how selfish we are and make us not be selfish. Children are amazing. They give us an opportunity. This is something that, this was a huge thing. Jennifer mentioned a little bit earlier about how early on in our marriage, we were in this weird place with this idea of having children. But one of the things that God used to capture my heart on this idea of becoming a dad, I prayed and I said, God, I want to be a better teacher and I wanna be able to teach these other marriages about you. (48:59):I need to know you more. And God pointed out to me, he is like, if you want to know me more, there's a sight of me you'll never know unless you become a father. And that was it. I was like, oh, I need to be a dad. If I wanna know more about God, I need to be a father. That wasn't the only thing, but that was it. That was the thing that just went from me being as selfish. I don't wanna have kids because whatever, to like, no, I want children. No, I didn't know how many or whatever just my heart changed in that moment because I wanted to know more of God. And children give you the opportunity to become more like God the Father, the one who has children and treats us as children. They also give us deep and meaningful ministry like Jennifer (49:47):Life purpose, Aaron (49:48):Life purpose. Every Jennifer (49:49):Day I wake up, I know for a matter of fact I've got little ones that rely on me and I have a purpose to serve Aaron (49:56):Them. Yeah. You mothers and fathers out there. I'm just going to say this one. The most important ministry you'll ever have in your entire life is your children. Your first ministry is your spouse, your second, and most important is your children. It you're raising, like we can go across the ocean and preach the gospel to people we don't know. That's good. But we have little people living right here in our home that we're with every day. Are we showing them the gospel with our life and the decisions we make and the way we repent and the like. That's amazing. That's huge. And last but not least, about this idea of having children. The Bible, God tells us that children are a blessing from him. They're a blessing. So Jennifer and I, we want you to be blessed. So if you're contemplating having children, if you are desiring to have children, if it's something that's the, you haven't have any yet, but you're thinking about it, we wanna encourage you to be praying that direction because we want you to be blessed. So I wanted to make that thing. I know that there's some people that can't, but there's always adoption. There's also just your heart to be a mother. Your heart to be a mother is such a huge good thing. So we want to encourage you in that and say, God bless you for that. So that's our 16 ish Jennifer (51:23): Aaron (51:24):Bits Jennifer (51:24):Of advice. The last one that I was going to share is really simple, and you can do it with all of these as you implement them, these forms. It's just be nice. Just be nice, be a nice person, be a nice person be kind. Aaron (51:37):Sorry. Don't be all grumpy all Jennifer (51:38):The time. Be kind. Yeah, I can hear my, every once in a while my mom comes out to visit and there's moments that Aaron and I have a little bickering or whatever, and I could hear her voice after all these years still say, oh, Jennifer, be nice. She does do, but she says it about my relationship toward you. Like, yeah. Oh, Jennifer, be nice. Sometimes you're not even in the room. She'll whisper it. Oh, Jennifer, be nice. And so it's just a good reminder that we need to be nice to each other in all ways. The way that we communicate the thoughts that we have toward one another all our intention be nice. Aaron (52:15):Yep. Let's get a little free bonus for you. We won't charge you on that one. Okay. Jennifer (52:20):Wow, this week's chilling. Oh, go ahead. Just I, it's our last time before the next season and I just wanted to say thank you guys so much for joining us and following along and just supporting this podcast. We love marriage after God. We love the community. We love knowing that there's couples out there who desire to grow and mature and chase boldly after God together. And we just wanted to say we love you guys and we hope that you have an incredible New year and just, I don't know, we we're praying for your marriage and we love you guys. Aaron (52:56):While you wait for the next season, will you please take some time and go back through the last episodes that maybe you haven't cut up on yet? Check 'em out. We have a lot of episodes now. But also, would you please share our podcast with a friend? Let someone know, someone that you know has a good commute, that likes to listen to the podcast, share with them. Jennifer (53:16):Lastly, if you feel inspired to share with us some thoughts on topics for next season, you can reach out to us on Instagram at Marriage after God and just shoot us a DM with your topic ideas and we'll be sure to look over those before we start the next season. Start the next season. Aaron (53:37):Awesome. So weekly challenge. This week, your challenge is to read the Bible together at least three times. Challenge accepted. Yes. Good? Yes. Okay. All right. I'm going to pray. Dear Lord, thank you for our marriage. Thank you for the opportunities you give us every day to love each other. Well, we pray we would be wise couples who clinging to truth. We pray we would listen to sound marriage advice and apply it. We pray you would continue to mature us and shape our marriage relationship, increase our ability to love and be known by each other when fear or doubt creeps into our marriage, we pray your truth will cover us with peace. Please use our marriage to bless each other and use us as a team to bring your glory as we support and encourage other marriages around us. In Jesus' name, amen. Jennifer (54:27):Thank you for joining us for another episode of the Marriage After God podcast. Aaron (54:30):If you found today's episode fun and encouraging, please take a moment to share it on social media or in an email to some of your married friends. Jennifer (54:36):Also, would you please take a moment and leave us a review, reviews help to spread the word about our podcast? Aaron (54:41):Be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode, and you can always check out more of our resources@marriageaftergod.com. Jennifer (54:46):You can follow us on social media for more marriage encouragement on Facebook and Instagram at Marriage after God at Husband Revolution, and at Unveiled Wife. Aaron (54:55):We hope you have an incredible week and look forward to sharing more with you next week on The Marriage After God podcast.   Connect With UsInstagram | @marriageaftergodInstagram | @unveiledwifeInstagram | @husbandrevolutionCheck out our marriage resources!SponsorsGet our new book The Marriage Gift - 365 prayers for your marriage!Our Sponsors:* Check out Mr. Pen and use my code MAG10 for a great deal: https://mrpen.comSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/marriage-after-god-biblical-advice-practical-tips-and-inspiring-/donations

This world is full fo discouragement, and we personally are really good at feeling shameful, weak, useless, and unworthy. Fill in the blank with all the negative things we think and say about ourselves daily. We all can use more words of encouragement and affirmation. So let this episode be an encouragement and reminder for you to practice finding things to affirm your spouse with on a daily basis.--This episode is sponsored by our newest book, Marriage After God. In this book, we have laid out for you a treasure map that leads your marriage to the greatest treasure of all, which is to know beyond a shadow of a doubt exactly why God has brought you and your spouse together.This book is meant to take you on a journey of discovering the unique, deep and powerful purpose God has for your marriage. The world and your flesh will tell you that the greatest end to be reached is happily ever after, but we believe that that is in fact not at all the end to which we are to pursue. Instead, God intends for you to pursue His end and for your marriage to be a powerful tool in His mighty hand to bring about glory for His Son and to grow His kingdom. If you are ready to say yes to this journey, then please head over to Shop.marriageaftergod.com or amazon.com and grab your copy today. --HERE IS THE LIST OF AFFIRMATIONS I TOLD MY WIFE IN THIS EPISODEYou are one of the most thoughtful and caring people I know. You are always considering how other people feel and what they might be going through. Your heart is always to comfort and include. Your heart is easily burdened for those of our friends who are burdened. These traits that God has given you are a powerful spiritual gift that our church, friends and anyone else that comes into our life get to be blessed by.You are an incredible mother who desires to be the best mother she can be. You teach our children diligently and with determination. You are creative with them and desire that they have many different outlets for growing in knowledge and skill and giftings. You are constantly growing in your patience and love for our children and you desire to be the best you can be for them.We are going to be married for 16 years on January 6th 2023. And I want you to know that I am thankful that i have had the privilege of having you as my bride, my friend and my lover for not only the last 16 years but also for the rest of our lives. And just like the bible says. You are a blessing and a gift to me and I am excited to continue to discover who you are each and every day of our lives together.You are my favorite person to spend alone time with. Going to a movie, dinner, fishing, hiking, bike ride. Whatever it is it will always be better when you are with me. You are my best friend.Just as i said when i asked you to be my wife, “whatever we do I want to do it with you and for God. I love building our life, business and family together.You are a godly woman who desires to grow and mature in your walk with Christ and your love for God is an inspiration not only to me but also to our children and to all our friends.Lest one! You may not believe me, but I think you are one of the bravest and strongest women i know. Following me to africa, starting businesses with me, doing our own marriage retreat, writing not just one book but 12. Having 5 children with me, and doing any of countless other things we have done in our life together. You are brave. And strong. And i admire you for that bravery and strength. Phil 4:8 Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. Ephesians 4:29 “Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.” READ TRANSCRIPTJennifer (00:09):Hi, and welcome to the Marriage After God podcast. Aaron (00:12):We're your hosts Aaron, Jennifer Smith. We Jennifer (00:14):Have been married 15 years and have five sweet children who are growing up way too fast. Aaron (00:18):We love God and we love marriage Jennifer (00:20):And we love to be honest about it all. Aaron (00:22):Marriage is not always a walk in the park, but we do believe it has a powerful purpose. Jennifer (00:25):So our goal here is to open up the conversation to talk about our faith and our marriage, Aaron (00:30):Especially in light of the gospel. Jennifer (00:32):We certainly don't have all the answers, but if you stick around, we may just make you Aaron (00:35):Laugh. But our hope is to encourage you to chase boldly after God's purpose for your life together. Jennifer (00:39):This is after God. Hi, and welcome back to another episode of Marriage After God. We're back Warrior Host. I'm Jennifer. Aaron (00:54):I'm Aaron. Jennifer (00:54):And we're happy to be here. We took another little break, unexpected, spontaneous break. We Aaron (01:00):Did not do it on purpose. Jennifer (01:01): life happens and for getting back into podcasting this season, I felt like we did really great. We were really strong. And then we had the break cuz you left. And then we came back and then we had to take another break because we were working on edits of the book and which Aaron (01:19):Turned out really well. Jennifer (01:20):And then there was Thanksgiving and then we got hit with sickness like bad Aaron (01:25):For over a week. Jennifer (01:26):It was rough. Aaron (01:27):It was like we had Thanksgiving and then boom, we're sick. So we had to take the time out. We couldn't do anything. Yeah, it was, we were, oh man, it was horrible. But we are back and we're going to do, we have two more episodes Jennifer (01:38):In this season. This is number 11. And then we have one more. So Aaron (01:41):We're going Jennifer (01:42):To do this. That wraps up the season crazy. Aaron (01:44):And then we get to practice and be better at next season because we have time Jennifer (01:50):To plan. excited about it. But in today's episode, I actually don't know what we're going to talk about cuz for some reason Aaron wanted it to be a surprise secret or maybe, I don't know why Aaron (02:01):I'm surprised that you're letting me do this , because you don't like to be surprised. That's true. And you don't like to not know what's going on. But this episode you listening, you know what the episode's about because the title, Jennifer hasn't seen the title yet. Jennifer (02:17):He's kept everything Aaron (02:17):From me so she doesn't know what it's about. And so we'll get to that soon and I hope it's good help. See. So before we get into that, this episode is sponsored by our newest book. When I say newest book, this book came out in 2020. Jennifer (02:34):2019 I think. 19. Yeah. 2019. Aaron (02:37):Oh, I think you're right. Okay. It's still our news book. We have one coming out next year, which will be our newest, newest book. But this one, marriage After God. This is one of the pinnacle works that we've done. It doesn't just incorporate our life, but it incorporates so much of what God has shown us and taught us about the purpose in marriage and why he created it. In this book we've laid out for you a treasure map that leads you your marriage to the greatest treasure of all, which is to know beyond a shadow of a doubt exactly why God has brought you and your spouse together. This book is meant to take you on a journey of discovering the unique, deep and powerful powerful purpose God has for your marriage. The world in your flesh will tell you that the greatest end to be reached is happily ever after. But we believe that this is in fact not at all the end to which we are to pursue. Instead, God intends for you to pursue his end and for your marriage to be a powerful tool in his mighty hand to bring about glory for His son and to grow his kingdom. If you're ready to say yes to this journey, then please head over to shop dot marriage after god.com or amazon.com and grab your copy today. Jennifer (03:43):Well babe, that was a really great ad for our book. I feel like you could just read a snippet from the book and then wrap it. Wrap it up. Call it an episode. Aaron (03:52):I could. I was going to do that actually. I was actually going to read some of the book, but I didn't. You gotta go get the book yourself. Jennifer (03:58):I'm also just nervous about today's topic cuz I don't know what it is so well Aaron (04:02):Here. Before we Jennifer (04:03):Just giving you another idea, Aaron (04:04):Get you warmed up. Before we get into today's secret topic why don't we talk about a little bit, I know we kind of went into it just a second ago, but what's been going on the last couple weeks? We had a few big things. One was a sad wound. We lost one of our chickens. I mean, we have a lot of chickens and so it's kind of makes sense that there's so much nutrition, Jennifer (04:26):Very new at this. And so everything's a learning curve. Everything's a process of trying to understand what it means to be a chicken mama and Aaron (04:34):Papa . And we have 20 plus chickens. Yeah, I think we're down to 20 now. Yeah. But we, so we tried everything we could actually with this little girl. And I even took her to the vet just cause I wanted to learn. I was like, okay, what? What's going on? What can I look for? It was too late. But you did learn tis. I did. And I got some useful tidbits that now I can go actually check all of our other chickens and be like, oh, these ones are healthy. This one's not healthy. Yeah, I know it looks like now. So that was actually really valuable for me. But sad. Sad nonetheless. But we're learning and it's actually been fun having chickens. Our kids are going out there feeding 'em, taking care of Jennifer (05:09):'em. Lots of Aaron (05:09):Responsibility. We're sitting down as family guys, we have animals we're responsible for, we need to make sure they stay alive so they have to have water and food and lots of other things. So that's actually been really good for our family. Jennifer (05:22):On top of that, we had family out, which was really great for Thanksgiving. It was such a joy just to see them. That was nice. And then we got sick, which we already mentioned that was not nice. I mean, hammered sick. I was usually, Aaron (05:34):I you're in bed for a whole Jennifer (05:35):Week, four or five days. Usually I don't get sick. Usually I help everybody else while they're sick. Aaron (05:40):Well and all more usually we, if we do get sick, we'll get it lightly. Jennifer (05:45):Or a tag team where I get sick first and then you get sick. Aaron (05:48):But this one you got sick and then I was sick and then the kids were sick and we were all sick at the same time. I don't think we've ever experienced that before. It was miserable. That was hard. Just doing anything. But Jennifer (05:57):We survived it. But we survived it because we had help too. That's true. We had friends nonstop. Hey, can I pick anything up from the store? Hey, how are you guys feeling? How can we come for you? Can I drop dinner off several times? We got dinners that Aaron (06:11):Week. We have lots of dinners, lots of Jennifer (06:12):Leftovers. So thank you everybody who helped. We love you. Aaron (06:15):And we were just so blessed and I all that to be said, there's huge power in close Christian community. And this has been true from Pentecost till today, that this is how God intends it. He intends the people of God to be in unity and together and helping each other. Jennifer (06:35):Plus it just feels good to be used too. I've been on the other end where someone's sick and I get to bring their family a meal. And I love being utilized in that way. I feel like it's me. Aaron (06:45):So quick off the topic encouragement for you for listening. If you don't have close Christian friends, we just wanna encourage you to go get some . And we know that could be hard for some people, but pray, ask God, say God, bring us some Christian relationships, Christian friends that we can get close to. You have to be in community. What God has for us. I think it's his God. It is God's plan for his people that we're all in community together. So I mean, we're going to be in eternity forever each other. That's true. So might as well practice it now. . Okay. That's all we have. Jennifer (07:19):Come on, tell me what it is. Aaron (07:21):Intro. Intro. Intro. So I have my phone here because I have my own private notes. Jennifer (07:26):I know I was really confused, Aaron (07:27):But she was looking through these. She was like, so did you write anything down? I'm like, yes. Where I'm like, I'm not telling you. Right. And if you would've looked just one filter back, you probably would've found it. Ah. Did you find an action? No. Okay. Just checking. . All right. So I'm going to share with you some statements, Jennifer (07:48):Oh gosh. Aaron (07:49):Okay. Statements that I've written down. And I want you to let us know me and the listeners, your honest thoughts and feelings about it. Jennifer (07:59):Can I just say true or false? Aaron (08:02):You might wanna say that but I want you to be real and honest. And the reason I didn't want you to know Jennifer (08:08):Is because you're mean. I'm just kidding. Aaron (08:11):Yes. Conniving and no, I think this is hard for a lot of people and it's hard for me, but it's hard to like, okay, you're going to get it Jennifer (08:24):Extra hard on me. Aaron (08:25):Yeah, I don't know. Maybe. Okay. So first of all, what are you thinking about before I go into this? Jennifer (08:31):The first thing that popped in my head was ice cream. Cuz I think it would make me feel better right now. Aaron (08:36):This is not an episode about ice cream and I think we have some, so if you do good, let you have a cup. Ice cream. Yeah. Do you surprises like this? Jennifer (08:45):I like some surprises sometimes. Aaron (08:48):Not Jennifer (08:49):Always this one. No. Because we're podcasting and recording and I just wanna You feel unprepared. I feel like I'm going to trip over my words or say something not so well. Aaron (08:58):To be honest, most of it's probably going to be me, but I do want to hear to engage with you on these things. Okay? Okay. All right. Okay. You don't know what I'm going to say. We're going to start, I think you'll get this after the first or second one. Listening's. Like just do it. Jennifer (09:15):Seriously. Stop Aaron (09:16):Smelling. All right. Okay. Jennifer, Jennifer (09:20):What? Aaron (09:21):You are one of the most thoughtful Jennifer (09:23): Aaron (09:24):In caring people. I know you are always considering how other people feel and what they might be going through. Your heart is always to comfort and include, your heart is easily burdened for those of our friends who are burdened. These traits that God has given you are a powerful spiritual gift that our church friends and anyone else that comes into our life get to be blessed by. That's the first one. Jennifer (09:50):Did you copy and paste that from somewhere? You get Aaron (09:52):That from? I wrote all of these. Jennifer (09:55):That was really beautiful. Aaron (09:57):Oh, is that's your natural first gut response. Jennifer (10:01):Yeah. Was it made me Aaron (10:02):Feel good? Did it? What else do you think about that? Oh, let's go. True or false? Jennifer (10:09):. True. I think that I would also pick it apart to show, but that's a challenge for me. It's hard for me. That's not in my nature. Aaron (10:21):What part of it? Jennifer (10:23):You would have to read it back to me. Aaron (10:25):, most thoughtful, caring people I know considering how people feel and what they might be going through. Jennifer (10:32):So even sometimes I think too much about myself and what I'm going through that I do feel like I miss what others are going through. But then there's times that I actually overthink how people might be feeling to where I start answering for them. Or I overthink what I said to them and it just gets really messy from there. So . Aaron (10:55):Okay, but what about your heart is always to comfort and include? Jennifer (11:01):I think that's true. And I think it comes from a place of always wanting to be included. Aaron (11:06):Love how you wanna be loved type thing. Your heart is easily burdened for those that our friends, the burdens that our friends have. Jennifer (11:16):That's true. And I think it's going back to what you said earlier about being in community. We've lived this way pretty much our whole marriage, where wherever we're at, we immerse ourselves into that community and we build friendships. And we're so close with people that I feel like they're family and I feel like if they're going through a hard time, I don't want them to be suffering. I don't want them to be uncomfortable. And so I do feel that weight. Mm-hmm. True. Aaron (11:43):, the last piece of this anyone who comes into our life is blessed by this from you. Jennifer (11:54):I don't know. Aaron (11:55):What do you think others would say? Jennifer (11:59):Do Jen ? Of course. I don't know. Aaron (12:03):Do you think that they actually feel blessed by you? Jennifer (12:06):I think that I have a handful of friends that I would believe them saying that. Okay, that's hard. Thinking about myself in that way. I don't Aaron (12:18):Know. Okay. Onto number two. You ready? Okay. Jennifer (12:25):, Aaron (12:26):You These might be harder. Jennifer (12:28):I don't know. Aaron (12:30):Okay. You are an incredible mother who desires to be the best mother she can be. You teach our children diligently and with determination. You are creative with them and desire that they have many different outlets for growing in knowledge and skill and giftings. You are consistently, you're constantly growing in your patience and love for our children. And you desire to be the best you can before them. Jennifer (12:54):Who told you all that? So as you're reading it, Aaron (13:02):What was your first thought you had when I said, you are an incredible mother. Jennifer (13:07):No, no, no, no. And then I heard God say, yes you are. Yes you are. Yes you are . But it's weird, the tension I have to battle in my own mind and heart because no matter how good of a day we have, no matter how much I try and pour into my children or being a mom, a good mom, I wrestle with doubt and failure and insecurities and wondering if I'm doing it right or when I'm doing it wrong, how to fix it. Being a mother is pain painful in a way, an emotional way because you just never know. I do. I don't know. Well, Aaron (13:52):True or false, Jennifer (13:55):I'm not going to Sure. False that I think that my heart and my heart intention is to be a good mom. I don't think I'm perfect. I think I struggle a lot. Aaron (14:08):Yeah. I don't think I use the word perfect in any of these by way. Jennifer (14:10):Oh, Aaron (14:11):. Good, Jennifer (14:12):Fine, fair. Aaron (14:15):Okay. Constantly growing in your patience and love for our children. That's true. And your desire to be the best you can before them. Jennifer (14:24):That's true. Yeah. Aaron (14:26):Are you creative with them and desire that they have many different outlets for growing in knowledge? Jennifer (14:31):Yes, that's true. Aaron (14:33):Do you teach them diligently with determination? Jennifer (14:36):Yes. Aaron (14:37):Yeah. Okay. Everyone can't see, but she's got a little bit of tears in her eyes. I did when Jennifer (14:45):You first started reading for sure. Aaron (14:47):Number three. I have a few of these. Okay. I have seven actually. Jennifer (14:51):I feel like this isn't really fair cuz now I have nothing to offer you. And now it has nothing to do with me right now. I know. But Aaron (14:56):This is for you. Okay. Okay. We are going to be married for 16 years on January 6th. Jennifer (15:02):That's right around the Aaron (15:03):Corner. That's less than a month away. It's actually exactly a month away. right now know. And I want you to know that I'm thankful that I've had the privilege of having you as my bride, my friend, and my lover for not only the last 16 years, but also for the rest of our lives. And just like the Bible says, you are a blessing and a gift to me. And I'm excited to continue to discover who you are each and every day of our lives together. Jennifer (15:30):That's beautiful. I love it. Is Aaron (15:33):That your only Jennifer (15:34):Response? Do you wanna know my honest response? Aaron (15:36):Yes. Jennifer (15:38):I immediately thought, well I'm really glad we didn't give up. Aaron (15:42):True. Jennifer (15:43):There were several times in the beginning that we almost gave up. And to look back now after almost 16 years of marriage, it's like, wow, what an incredible journey. Aaron (15:54):I know it's weird to think that we've been married for 16 years. Jennifer (15:57):It's a long time. And you had mentioned the other day, we were talking about something and you said, yeah we've, we've had more good years than hard years because the first beginning we thought, man, this is overtaking everything. And this is, it just felt like a lifetime already in those first four years. Aaron (16:14):And now we've had two lifetimes since then. Jennifer (16:16):Yeah. Crazy. Aaron (16:17):Yeah. Jennifer (16:18):Everyone's like, what? Do your math. Aaron (16:20):Yeah, the math doesn't make sense, but we've how you feel. We've had more good years now than we had bad years leading up to big changes in our marriage. But I just think it's interesting. The reason I wanted your natural responses to these is because we'll get there actually. Okay. Number four, Jennifer (16:42):Keep her in the dark. Aaron (16:44):You are my favorite person to spend a long time with. Going to a movie, dinner, fishing, hiking, bike ride, whatever it is, it will always be better. When you are with me, you are my best friend. Jennifer (16:58):Ditto. Aaron (17:01):Is that your first response? That's Jennifer (17:03):My only response. Yeah. Dito is like, you are my best friend. And same. Well, Aaron (17:07):You never want me Jennifer (17:07):Gone. I never want you gone. Don't ever leave my side. That's true. But seriously, even when I'm out with a girlfriend or whatever, I always think like, oh Aaron would enjoy this. I want you to be there. Aaron (17:19):Yeah. We were out. We just had that men's retreat a month or so ago and the whole time just thinking this would be so much more fun with all the wives here. Jennifer (17:27):It would've been fun with Aaron (17:28):All of Elvis. It would've been. But you know how perfect this stars have to be aligned today. I know. We get all of our friends together without kids. I know. Jennifer (17:36):That's cool. We have a lot of kids. Between us all, Aaron (17:37):It's like there's 60 or so. It's Jennifer (17:40):Say impossible. Many. Aaron (17:41):I think we've done it once for an evening. Jennifer (17:43):We're going to do it again for an evening cuz we have a Christmas party Aaron (17:45):Coming up. Oh. So pray for us. Jennifer (17:47):Pray for, we're going to dress up  Aaron (17:49):Number five. I hope these are good. Jennifer (17:53):These are really good. Aaron (17:54):Okay, Jess. As I said when I asked you to be my wife, whatever we do, I wanna do it with you. And for God, I love building our life, business and family together. Jennifer (18:05):Yes. Yeah. Always . Aaron (18:08):Okay. See a couple of these aren't that hard. Anything you wanna add to that? Jennifer (18:14):Well, we've been talking a lot lately about what's next? What's in the coming year going to look like? What are we moving towards? What are we going to mm-hmm. Trying to accomplish? What do we wanna build next? What do we wanna build or be a part of? What our legacy or what direction are we going? What we always have these at the end of the year where we talk about what the following year, gold casting. Gold casting, which Aaron (18:34):We talked about Jennifer (18:34):Mary God, I think it's chapter 13, dreaming together. Which I love doing with you by the way. It's one of my favorite. Is it a pastime? I don't know. F favorite things to do with you. And so as you're saying that I thought you were going to lead up to and what I wanna do with you this next year, . Nope. But it's more like a dot, dot dot. It's just always Aaron (18:54):Because we haven't figured it out yet. But yeah, you can't write that good. Number six, you are a godly woman who desires to grow and mature in your walk with Christ and your love for God as an inspiration, not only to me but also to our children and to all our friends. Jennifer (19:12):All I heard in the back of my head is I can do better. I can do better. I can. Aaron (19:19):Makes sense. Why does it feel like you have to? Why not have to? But why is that your first response? Jennifer (19:30):I think I go through seasons where I fit seasons where I feel closer to God, chasing after him. Getting in the word constantly and having a very strong prayer life. And then there's other seasons where I'm, I feel farther. I haven't picked up the Bible in a couple of days. And things just feel a little bit more uncertain is not the word, but distant, so to speak. And then there's all the seasons in between that where you're fluctuating back and forth between those. So I think just right now in my current state of life, the things that we've been walking through and life just has felt kind of busy. And I think I've been more sporadic in spending time with the Lord and really chasing after him. Aaron (20:20):Do you believe that all the people in your life see that? Or do you think that they see something else? Jennifer (20:30):I think that, I don't know. It'd be a good question to ask and maybe get feedback on maybe. But I think that they probably just see me and my love for the Lord. Aaron (20:45):So Jennifer (20:46):Do you believe as a general? Yeah. Aaron (20:47):Do you believe though that your relationship and your walk is an inspiration to be able to know you? Jennifer (20:57):I don't know. I hope so, but I don't know. Aaron (21:00):Do you really not know? Jennifer (21:02):I don't know. Or do you just I don't like talking about me. Aaron (21:03):I know. I just wanna know. Do you really not know? You have no idea. Jennifer (21:08):I think that I'm an encouragement to others. I think. Aaron (21:12):Have people told you that they look to you and they they're inspired by you? Yeah. Yeah. So it's not that you don't know . Okay. Jennifer (21:22):I think it, yeah, Aaron (21:25):Say it. Jennifer (21:26):I don't know. I think it's digested , Aaron (21:30):Unwrap it. Peel Jennifer (21:31):Back the onion layers. I was just going to say, going back to how I feel in and out of seasons where I feel either really close to God or a little bit more distant. But when I'm more consistent in the word, it comes out in my responses towards others. Whether it's a girlfriend or a text. And so I get more, get more inspired by the Lord's word being drawn out of me in those ways more frequently when I'm more consistent. And I just feel like lately, maybe it's cuz we were sick, I don't know. But lately it's just felt like off. Yeah. Aaron (22:08):But do you think that offness changes everyone's perspective? Jennifer (22:13):Maybe not. Maybe just mine. Okay. Speaker 3 (22:16):Okay. Aaron (22:17):All right. You ready for the last one? Jennifer (22:19):Maybe? Aaron (22:22):What do you think so far, Jennifer (22:24):The parenting one was probably the hardest, more, most emotional one. Aaron (22:28):And how do you feel overall? Do you feel? Jennifer (22:32):I feel really encouraged. And I don't know why you picked on me for this. Aaron (22:36):Well, you're my closest neighbor, so yeah, I just, yeah, this is the last one. You ready? Yep. Okay. You may not believe me, but I think you're one of the bravest and strongest women I know. Following me to Africa, starting businesses with me doing our own marriage retreat. Remember that? That was crazy. Writing. Not just one but 12 books. Having five children with me and doing any of the countless other things we have done in our life together. You are brave and strong and I admire you for that bravery and strength. Jennifer (23:23):Why are you crying? Aaron (23:24):I'm not. What are you talking about? Jennifer (23:27):I don't know if Aaron (23:28):He's, I'm still getting over my cold. Jennifer (23:30):Yeah. I don't know if you've ever told me I was brave before. Aaron (23:38):Well that's a shame. Oh, sorry. Jennifer (23:42):You've encouraged me a lot in that direction. I'm just saying using the word brave. I don't know. I don't think I've ever seen myself as someone that's brave. Maybe I am. Aaron (23:54):Do you feel like you might be brave more now than you did a moment ago? Jennifer (24:04):It makes me wanna be brave. Aaron (24:06):Well, like you said, you've never heard that. You wouldn't think of yourself that way. But now that it's been said, does it it give a leg to that thought? Jennifer (24:20):Yeah. Yeah. And you giving examples of the things that I've walked with you in, it's almost like in the moment they're easy yeses. Cause I trust you and I am like all Aaron (24:37):Four. They were not easy yeses. Jennifer (24:38):Yeses. They weren't easy yeses and they weren't easy to walk through. But I'm just saying, it's interesting looking at them in hindsight and saying, I was brave. But because in the midst of it I wasn't thinking, oh, I'm so brave, I'm going to do this thing. I was actually terrified and I was nervous and I, but I was with you. And so there was a comfortability in an element of believing that we could, Aaron (25:08):What's that song? You make me brave that. How does Jennifer (25:13):Yes. I just feel encouraged. And I think if we were able to do all of that, what could we do next? Aaron (25:21):What could we, I mean crazy. Almost anything. I think , what else? Jennifer (25:31):I don't know. My heart just feels light. I didn't expect that. Any of it. Aaron (25:38):Well you are pretty brave for having five kids. Jennifer (25:42):I do feel brave for that. Or crazy Both. I'm really, really happy that we had kids early in our marriage. I wasn't like eager to even think about kids. And I didn't know how to wrap my brain around it. Even when we found out we were pregnant with the first one. So to now look back and say, man, we have five kids. And that they're all growing up. They're getting old Aaron (26:07):People with ideas. Jennifer (26:09):It's wild stuff. It's so crazy. Aaron (26:12):It is. They can Jennifer (26:15):Do things, talk back. Speaker 3 (26:16):Yeah, Jennifer (26:17):That's true. Aaron (26:22):So I wanted to affirm you first and foremost cuz you deserve it. You're my wife and I love you. And (26:33):Telling you these things are not fake. They're not to embellish. They're purely to say what's fact and truth, which is what an affirmation should be. True, good things like that. Verse, whatever is good. Whatever is noble. Noble. And so I also wanted to do it for the listeners to hear what it sounds like to affirm your spouse. And also I wanted them to hear your responses to the affirmations because I think they're natural for us. It's hard for us to receive things like this because we have all sorts of thoughts for about ourselves. And rarely are those thoughts affirming. That's why there's this huge self-love movement of self-care and take care of yourself and speak good things to yourself and all these things. Because we don't naturally do that because we see ourselves, we think the clearest like, oh, look at that other thing I messed up on. I'll look at that. How I just did that. Oh, I yelled at the crazy critical I did. Oh, I was angry over here. Oh, I dropped the ball on this plan. I Jennifer (27:52):Feel like we never forget, either we're friends or spouse, they could easily forget that you said that thing or did something that you shouldn't have, but we never forget. And so we carry that around with us. Aaron (28:07):And so what do you think happens when we go out throughout our lives and the affirmations are far and fewer between? Yeah, we say we love each other, we enjoy company. We are nice to each other. All the things that you should be, but you don't intentionally go out of your way. I don't intentionally go out of my way to say and call out the good things in you. What do you end up hearing the most in your life? Jennifer (28:43):My own voice, Aaron (28:46):Which again, are rarely the good things. I have my own voices. I have my own sins that I know full well and the things that come up in my head and the things I say about myself and believe about myself. And then on top of that, we have an enemy who proclaims lies to us and points out things to us. And then we have not just that, but we also have all of the other things that we see in life that we can quickly, instantly compare ourselves to. None of those things affirm us. And so not that it needs to be what I just did. And I just went through seven things with you. We could be that. But if what would happen if everyone listening, every spouse just tried to make it a point to affirm their spouse every day in something. Say, man, you're such a good mom man. I love how you take care of the kids. Oh I love seeing you play and rolling around on the floor with the kids like it. What would happen if we began to speak better words out loud intentionally in front of our kids, in front of our spouse more regularly? What do you think would happen? Jennifer (30:05):I think it would positively reinforce the things that we do and will make us wanna keep doing those Aaron (30:14):Things well. And the true things that actually are there that we may be thinking lies about. Think about, I said you were brave and you're like, I don't think you've ever said that before. And then you said, I wouldn't see myself as brave. But now that you said it, now that you said all the things that I was brave in, I could see it just that one thing, that one phrase can give life to a part of you that you never had life before. And how powerful it is to speak these good words. Affirming words, encouraging words. (30:49):And what's interesting is it hard for us to hear our flesh is against it because we have a hard time believing them because of what we hear most of the time. We hear all the other things, I'm not brave, I'm not strong, I'm not a good mom, I'm not a good dad. So that's where our baseline is. So when we hear the affirm affirmation, which contradicts what we believe in our heads that we've heard and operated in, it stops us. And we're like, wait, what? And so what could happen if we just keep doing it and keep pushing through that? And will the voices in our heads change? Will the words that we hear in our heads change? I could do this. I messed up. I'm going to come back and I'm going to do it better. I'm going to change how I respond. I'm going to actually go and cuz I can do this. That's not who I am. Jennifer (31:47):I know we're recording this episode for our listeners, but I just feel really encouraged and inspired myself to wanna try this. And I'm thinking about our relationship, which I wanna share about in a second, but also just how important and vital this is to bring it to our children. And it makes me think, we just did something kind of similar with Wyatt for his birthday where we all went around and said one thing we love about Wyatt, and I love that kind of exercise or experience. And I think it really does pump them up in an encouraging way. But I'm thinking even just what you did with seven affirmations, but for each child, just making sure that they know without a shadow of a doubt, my love for them and what I think of them and what I perceive to be true in their life and their abilities. (32:42):I just think that's really powerful. And then on the note about our relationship, again, I know we're recording this so that those listening are encouraged, but I just wanna apologize to you for not being one who chooses to affirm as often as I choose to critique or call out things that I justify in my heart as well. This thing needs to be said. He needs to know he will be better. He will grow. If I tell him this thing he's messing up on or doing wrong and I'm very quick to point out the negative instead of saying the positive. And I'm sorry for that. Aaron (33:30):I Jennifer (33:30):Forgive you. And I wanna work on being an affirming wife. I do struggle with Aaron (33:34):That. And that's a good opposite to point out is the opposite of affirmations as critique is just constantly pointing out how we fail or how we didn't line up just right or how we didn't live up to an expectation. And that does the very opposite. That reinforces the negative thoughts, the mm-hmm. damaging thoughts. The lies. Which leads me to my final thought on this world is full of discouragement and we were just talking about we know full well, how shall I say crappy? We are right? Yeah. We know it really well. Mm-hmm. Better than most. We know we're really good at feeling shameful. We're really good at feeling weak. We're really good at believing we're useless or unworthy. These are we. This is not the hard stuff. This is the easy stuff. You fill in the blank of negative things that we think and say about ourselves daily or that other people say to us. Or like you said, that we say to each other when we are critical, overly critical when we're negative. (34:49):And so we have a lot of it like an abundance of accusations against us. It's literally what the devil does. He's the accuser. He accuses us of our failings and weaknesses. And that's that in reality, that is who we are with a sin nature that we have. But Christ has done something different. Christ has given us something more. Christ has made us one with himself. I was reading that devotional from Spurgeon this morning to the kids and it says that the body and the members are of the same substance as the head. And he brought up Nene's dream of the statue where there's the head of gold and then the silver and the bronze and the clay and the iron and all these different parts. And he is, none of those were the same. They were all mixed. The head was the best part and everything else below it was worse. And Spurgeon was saying, but not so with Christ. We are the same as the head. So if the head be righteous, we are righteous. If the had be pure, we are pure. If they had be gold, we are gold. And so that's the difference is there's, there's plenty of the hurtful, hateful, negative lies and destructive words in the world that we say to ourselves, that we hear from others, that we hear from every media outlet everywhere all the time nonstop. And the enemy himself, we can use a little bit more encouragement. Amen. Jennifer (36:22):Yep. Feels really good too. Aaron (36:24):It feels way better than critique. I can tell you that much. Yeah. And so I just, there's a couple of verses. Do you wanna add anything to that by the way? Yeah, it was really good. Okay. Philippians four, eight. It's very well known finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there's any excellence, if there's anything worthy of praise, think about these things. It's easy to see all the other things. It actually takes spiritual work to see these things. To look at someone and be like, well, where's their praiseworthy things in this person's life even though they've done this, this and this and this. How can I praise this person? How, what's honorable about this person even though they have failed here and have been honorable in this area. (37:15):Ephesians 4 29, let no crypting talk come out of your mouth, but only such as is good for building up as fits the occasion that it may give grace to those who hear, did you feel like you were giving grace tonight? Because that's what words of affirmation do they build up. The Bible tells us that the power of life and death is in the tongue. It just is. We can bring life with our words or we can bring death with our words. And I wanted to bring you life tonight. I appreciate it. And I want everyone listening to practice this week and moving forward that they would see where areas in their spouse's life that they could just speak life like, man, I love how you said that to our son. That was so beautiful. I love how you just calling out the things that we love in someone. (38:12):Jor. Jordan Peterson says something recently that I was really encouraged by and it said, don't punish an action you want repeated. And it makes so much sense. How often do we punish someone's doing something, they're like, oh, you're bothering me. Stop doing that. When you're being playful with me and I get annoyed and I shouldn't, like I want you to be playful with me. Why would I punish you being playful with me? I shouldn't do that. So let's reward. Let's reward and make known and make visible and highlight and do everything we can to elevate the things that are worthy to elevate. And what will happen, I believe will, it'll actually minimize the things that we don't want elevated. Like we will. We'll see them less and they'll probably actually happened less. So that was the super secret episode. It was to affirm you and it was, Jennifer (39:02):I'll never do one of those again. Yes Aaron (39:04):You will. I hope you do one with me. Jennifer (39:07):That would be Aaron (39:08):Cool. Not the exact same one of course next season, but you could just trick me or Jennifer (39:13):Surprise me or something. Aaron (39:13):All right. Jennifer (39:15):But you like that kind of stuff? Aaron (39:16):Yeah, I do like the impromptu, who knows what's going on. But I Jennifer (39:21):Do, go ahead. No. Oh when you were talking, I wanted to share an experience I had recently. You were talking when you were talking about the lies that we say to ourselves and the things that we hear the critiques and the criticalness that we wrestle with in our internal dialogue. And I just wanted to share, a friend of mine was having a hard day and reached out and said, would you pray for me? And then left this note of the things that she was struggling with, including lies that she was believing about just how difficult parenting is and whether or not she was failing and other areas marriage was on their friendships having a life that's too busy and wanting to slow down and just Aaron (40:12):All the normal things. Jennifer (40:13):It was a lot. And with every word that I read I could relate to and say, yeah, me too. But I just wanna share that because one, I got to pray right away. Two, I got to send a response and encourage my friend and tell her what the truth was. And so I think to your point of we should be people who initiate affirmation. I think that's really important and really good. And it really does feel good on the receiving end to do that. But if you're in a place where you are suffering under the burden of thought of who you are and the things that you are trying to do day in and day out, reach out to a friend, tell your spouse, tell Aaron (40:55):Us. I'm giving it back to the beginning of the episode. I like it. What Jennifer (40:58):Community? Oh yeah, exactly. See I got this. I was just thinking how important it is to say something. Even if you don't wanna expose those lies that you're believing about yourself, it's so important to you because then the truth is revealed. And your friend or your spouse or your parents, whoever you tell, can encourage you in the truth and pray for you. Aaron (41:20):And the truth shall set you free. Jennifer (41:22):Seriously. Sometimes just getting those things out of your mind and helps. And I hope my friend was encouraged by what I shared with her. Aaron (41:32):Well she probably was Sure Jennifer (41:33):I know. , low view of Aaron (41:35):Self. Well I just thank you for letting me do that and indulging me. And I feel like it was really nice and I meant all of it. Jennifer (41:43):You almost got a tear outta me. Aaron (41:44):You teared up pretty good. . Not me at all. You did though. And I just, you listeners, I want you guys to do this week. Ask God to show you. And also I want you to recognize how much you need affirmation yourself, that you need to be reminded that you are loved by God and that you have His spirit and that you you're good. Even though we're bad , you're good cuz you have Christ and he's good. So babe, would you pray for us? Yeah. Jennifer (42:20):Dear Lord, thank you for giving us our spouse and for using them as a tool to grow us and mature us. Help us to encourage and affirm each other more often. Help us to be the tool you use to strengthen our spouse each day. Lord, show us how to see the good and noble and true and praiseworthy in each other every day. I pray that we would not be used by the enemy to speak destruction and death to each other, but rather we would fight against the lies of the enemy and continually believe the truth about ourselves. That you dwell in us and that you have fearfully and wonderfully made us in Christ Jesus. In Jesus name, amen. Thank you for joining us for another episode of the Marriage After God podcast. Aaron (43:01):If you found today's episode fun and encouraging, please take a moment to share it on social media or in an email to some of your married friends. Jennifer (43:07):Also, would you please take a moment and leave us a review, reviews help to spread the word about our podcast. Aaron (43:12):Be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode, and you can always check out more of our resources @ marriageaftergod.com. Jennifer (43:18):You can follow us on social media from more marriage encouragement on Facebook and Instagram at marriage after God at Husband Revolution and at Unveiled Wife. Aaron (43:26):We hope you have an incredible week and look forward to sharing more with you next week on The Marriage After God podcast.   Connect With UsInstagram | @marriageaftergodInstagram | @unveiledwifeInstagram | @husbandrevolutionCheck out our marriage resources!SponsorsGet our new book The Marriage Gift - 365 prayers for your marriage!Our Sponsors:* Check out Mr. Pen and use my code MAG10 for a great deal: https://mrpen.comSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/marriage-after-god-biblical-advice-practical-tips-and-inspiring-/donations

This week's episode is brought to you by our 30-day marriage devotionals. Husband and wife after god. These devotionals were written to help you grow closer to your spouse and closer to God. We invite you to join the thousands of other marriages that have already taken the journey toward a deeper and more purposeful marriage.Also, with the holidays coming up, these devotionals will make a powerful and meaningful gift for the other married couples in your life. Get them today at shop.marriageaftergod.com or amazon.com  Forgiveness is the relief of tension in a relationship that has endured offense or conflict. Like holding a band and stretching it across your chest. Eventually, your muscles start to ache When I was thinking of this analogy I also thought…..If someone - we will say the person who caused the offense) is watching me hold this band and I release it to relax my arms. Their state or being is not affected like mine is. I get relief from letting go. I bring this up because forgiveness in a relationship - although powerful to also be on the receiving end - has a powerful effect on the one who is forgiving. Now consider how Christ our Lord felt when He forgave all for sins. Whoa! We all have had countless opportunities to forgive others - especially our spouse - so let's talk more about it and how to do it when we don't feel like. Why should I forgive when I feel like they are wrong?Why does it feel hard to forgive?Why do I have to forgive?Why don't I want to forgive?How can I forgive if they have not repented?What if I forgive them and they do it again?Why should I forgive if they have not changed yet?If I forgive them then what they did just get overlooked and if it happens again?These are good questions and many we have all wrestled to answer. Let's take a look at one more important question…..Why does Jesus command us to forgive?[Mat 6:12-15 ESV] 12 and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. 14 For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, 15 but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.If forgiveness was a naturally occurring response to being wronged or hurt then there would be no need for the command. But the fact is that forgiveness is a very unnatural phenomenon. It goes against all our natural responses and desires. Forgiveness goes against our natural defense mechanisms and responses. Justice is a more natural response. No, forgiveness isn't something that comes from us at all. It is something we must do in the power of the Holy Spirit. It is something we must do out of obedience to God’s word.True forgiveness can only happen when we understand the miracle that we ourselves have received forgiveness for trespassing against a perfect and Holy God.When we realize what it is that Christ did for us on that cross, we begin to see why we must also forgive others.To withhold forgiveness puts us in the place of God. READ TRANSCRIPTJennifer (00:09):Hi and welcome to the Marriage After God podcast. Aaron (00:12):We're your hosts Aaron, Jennifer Smith. Jennifer (00:13):We have been married 15 years and have five sweet children who are growing up way too fast. Aaron (00:18):We love God and we love marriage Jennifer (00:20):And we love to be honest about it all. Aaron (00:22):Marriage is not always a walk in the park, but we do believe it has a powerful purpose. Jennifer (00:25):So our goal here is to open up the conversation to talk about our faith and our marriage, Aaron (00:30):Especially in light of the gospel. Jennifer (00:32):We certainly don't have all the answers, but if you stick around we may just make you laugh. Aaron (00:36):But our hope is to encourage you to chase boldly after God's purpose for your life together. Jennifer (00:39):This is after God. Aaron (00:49):All right. We are back. Aaron Jennifer Smith with the Marriage After God podcast. Jennifer (00:55):It's been like two weeks. Aaron (00:57):Yes. Jennifer (00:57):People were probably wondAarong are they done? Aaron (01:00):No, we intentionally took off a couple Jennifer (01:03):Weeks. We unintentionally. Intentionally. Yeah. Aaron told me the week before, Hey, by the way, don't stress out, but I am. We're taking a break. And I was like, what? We've never done that. Aaron (01:13):Well, you were in like deep edit mode on our book and I was going on a trip with Elliot and so I was like, you know what? We're just not going to even deal with Jennifer (01:23):It. And normally I would argue that and say, no, we made this commitment. Let's just follow through with that. Aaron (01:28):But I think you felt relieved. Jennifer (01:29):I did Aaron (01:30):Actually. Because you were doing a lot. Yeah. You were crushing it. And I was about to leave and all I thought was like I just, there's no, this plate is full, so we're going to be good. But we love you and we missed you guys and we have a really good episode for you guys today. I hope. And just real quick, I wanna talk about my trip with Elliot, cuz I know we mentioned it. I went to Florida with Elliot for his 10th birthday. It was just me and him and it was awesome. We show up and my friend who lives there texts me and says, you made it just some time for the hurricane. Jennifer (01:58):Literally like you coming in from the west, the hurricane coming in from the east, you guys met there per in perfect. Aaron (02:05):It was a nothing burger for sure. There was a little bit of wind, a little bit of rain. I know that there's been worse tornado or worse hurricanes in the area, but I think it just died down to a tropical storm. And it was actually a lot of fun being there and El Elliot's thinking a tornado not a tornado. He kept wanting to call it a tornado because they, they're supposed to swirl in the middle when you look on the map. But it was fun. It was raining. We went to the Everglades got to see some old friends that live there still. And my favorite part was just having time with Elliot talking about him growing up. I was asked him questions, what does he see? What do you think? What does he think God has for him over this next year? And as he's getting older, and it was awesome. And I think he's going to remember it for the rest of his life, Jennifer (02:52):So Very cool. Aaron (02:53):Did you miss Jennifer (02:54):Us? Of course I did. That was, I was going to jump in and say, there's one thing I Aaron (02:57):Did. You wish you were there because I wish Jennifer (03:00):You were there. Well, of course everybody likes adventure. But I was going to jump in and say, one thing I learned and realized when you were gone is how codependent I am on you. But I already know that I don't like it when you leave. You did learn that. Aaron (03:10):Yeah. That's a given. Yeah. All that to say, we are back and we're excited. And today's episode we're going to be talking about something that's very challenging to do in your marriage and life. And it's how to forgive even when you don't feel like it. Ooh, Jennifer (03:26):Ooh, Aaron (03:27):Ooh. Yeah. That's good. That's Jennifer (03:28):A hard one. All right. Before we jump into today's topic, we are going to share today's sponsor, which is our 30 day marriage devotionals, husband and wife after God. These devotionals were written to help you draw closer to each other and to God and we invite you to join thousands of other marriages who have already taken the journey toward a deeper, more purposeful marriage by using these devotionals. Also, with the holidays coming up, you can easily give these devotionals to other married couples in your life as a powerful and meaningful gift. So you can check that out at shop dot marriage after god.com or amazon.com. Again, they're called husband after God and wife after God. Aaron (04:08):Awesome. So forgiveness. Sure. There's people right now Jennifer (04:14):Listening. E every single person right now. Yeah. Is that what you meant? Every Aaron (04:18):Single person We've been faced with this many, many, many, many times. Jennifer (04:24):So everyone can relate. Aaron (04:26):Yeah. Well it's not just relate. I think it's experience, it's a thing. It's ties all of humanity together and we'll see why. But this is a big topic, Jennifer (04:35):So hopefully we can all gain some insight or be encouraged by us bringing it up today. Aaron (04:40):Yeah. Why don't you give the definition real quick of what is forgiveness? Jennifer (04:45):So it actually means to stop feeling angry or resentful towards someone for an offense flaw or mistake. In other words, to cancel a debt. Aaron (04:54):I like that. In that definition, resentful. So getting rid of the resentment and changing that. And then the biggest one that cancel a debt. So unforgiveness is holding a debt over someone. They've done something that's withdrawn something from you and they owe you. They owe repentance or an apology or to change or to stop doing whatever that is. But to forgive is to cancel it. That debt's gone. So that's the basis of what we're going to be talking Jennifer (05:26):About. When I grabbed the definition for this, I thought to myself, it's so easy for it to be defined as just stop feeling angry. Yeah, that's easy. Just stop. Aaron (05:35):I Jennifer (05:35):Know. Where's Aaron (05:36):The easy, but I was reading that. I was turning my head. Just stop feeling angry. Okay, Jennifer (05:40):Just stop it. Aaron (05:41):an easy Jennifer (05:43):Button. So how do you do it? You just stop. Aaron (05:45):I'm not angry anymore. It's just easy. Jennifer (05:47):All right. There's a little bit more to, it's Aaron (05:48):Definitely more difficult than that. Jennifer (05:51):Laughing, but I know it's not easy. Okay. Forgiveness. When I was thinking about forgiveness, I was thinking it's that relief of tension in a relationship that has endured a fence or conflict or something hard. And the picture that I got is those bands when you're working out, the bands that go like, oh yeah, Aaron (06:11):Okay. The rubber bands. Jennifer (06:13):So stretching it out across your chest, stretching it tighter, stretching it, stretching. It's getting harder and harder and harder. And then just holding it there until your muscles start shaking and you can't do it anymore. Aaron (06:26):So it's the unforgiveness. Jennifer (06:29):Yeah. That would be holding that tension. Yes. And could you imagine us all walking around with that kind of physical tension on us? That's crazy to think about, but spiritual. But forgiveness would be the release of that and bringing it out of that state of tension to a more relaxed state. And then as your mind gets these pictures, I kept following the image, I kept thinking, okay, so let's say someone was standing there watching me with my hands holding up the tension of this band. And someone is someone who say was the offender or You don't hurt me or whatever you, I don't know. So in the act of me releasing that tension and forgiving, I'm hoping everyone's following along. You're looking at me like bands forgiveness. Okay, are you guys following me here? What I'm saying is the effect of me releasing the tension in that band really powerfully affects me. Aaron (07:30):Yeah. The other person's not holding the band You are. Yeah. They may have done something that makes you feel like that you need to hold of that. Jennifer (07:38):And they might have empathy even for watching this thing occur and take place. They may have feelings about it. Yeah, I have no idea or I have no idea. But what I'm getting at is forgiveness is a really powerful thing for the person who's holding onto whatever that thing is. Aaron (07:53):Isn't there a quote that unforgiveness is drinking poison and expecting the other person to die? This idea of it's something that is happening within you. Jennifer (08:04):Cause I heard another one about being at a prison. Unforgiveness is being in a prison that you put yourself into Aaron (08:11):And all these analogies, all these pictures that we're giving it, it does show that often we think that forgiveness is something that requires the other person, but it doesn't always. And we want to that this actually brings a freedom to forgiveness. But we're going to get through some of this a little bit more and dig into this a little bit, a little more. But we're just trying to give this premise of what does this look like? What does this feel like? There's some questions that we can often probably ask ourselves and we just wanted to bring some of those up. Same out loud so that we can dig into this idea of forgiveness. Jennifer (08:48):Real quick, can I wrap up my little picture for everyone? Yeah. So imagine the outstretched arms holding the band and the weight of okay, totally exhausted muscles shaking pain. It's excruciating. But you're trying with all your might to hold on to all this unforgiveness. Now consider how Christ felt when he took on all of that, everything the Aaron (09:11):Sin of the world Jennifer (09:12):And forgave and release that tension. How beautiful. How's, how Aaron (09:17):Cool? And now you're bringing up the crux, the cross, the crux of this whole idea of forgiveness. Yeah. I like your analogy cuz your arms are stretched out and his arms were stretched out and held out by sin. He was, it's what nailed him there in analogy. So we have countless opportunities to forgive others, especially our spouse. I feel like actually the person that most often that needs our forgiveness in our life will be our spouse Jennifer (09:50):Most opportunity. Because of the interactions constantly Aaron (09:53):Happening, there's constantly offenses happening, there's constantly, and hopefully not always intentional. A lot of this is unintentional. Yeah, Jennifer (10:00):Close proximity. Aaron (10:02):But we spend so much time together, there's just tons of opportunity for things to happen. And I think it's, but not just in our marriage, I didn't want this just to be about marriage. It's actually just in life in general. Because we can easily say, well your spouse deserves it because they're your spouse. But that's not enough for us to be able to forgive. Jennifer (10:24):And for those listening, we wanna be an encouragement to you in your marriage, but also to your other relationship. So if you're listening to this and you're like, well I'm forgiving my spouse for everything and so there's no issue there, but are you holding onto something with an in-law or a friend or someone else in your life that you can forgive? So we want you to think about all your relationships. Aaron (10:47):And so this is something that, here's some questions. I'm just going to say 'em out loud cuz I think we say these to ourselves, we ask these questions when it comes to forgiveness, Jennifer (11:00):Say them slowly so they really hear 'em. Aaron (11:02):Okay, why should I forgive when I feel like they're wrong? I feel like this is probably what I ask myself the most. . Like we're in a situation and Jennifer, you've said this, I'm never wrong. You just say you're sorry. And I'm like, I don't want to say I'm sorry. And at the same time I'm like, why should I like you? You did this. Why am I on the, you get confused. Yeah, I do. And so next question. Why does it feel hard to forgive? Why do I have to forgive? That's a question I think some people ask of like, no, this is something I wanna hold onto. I'm not going to, I'm going to afford this person the benefit of my forgiveness. Why don't I want to forgive? Jennifer (11:47):That's digging a little deeper. Aaron (11:48):Yeah. It's like, wait a minute, I desi, I wish I did. I wish I could, but I feel like I can't. How can I forgive if they have not repented Jennifer (11:59):Or apologized Aaron (12:00):Or apologized? What if I forgive them and they do it again? (12:06):Have you ever asked that before? J babe? Yeah. Yeah. Why should I forgive if they have not changed yet? These are big questions we ask. I think all of these in some form or fashion pop up on our heads in the midst of when forgiveness is needed. And then this last one, again, this is not an extensive list. Probably I would hope you're listening to your own heart and the spirit of God and say, trying to hear these questions yourself. The last one, if I forgive them, then what they do just gets overlooked. And what if it happens again? And I think that's even mentioned this in the past, is this fear of truly forgiving. Does that mean they just get a pass that I just get a pass to do it again? Jennifer (12:52):Essentially you brought up the word cr crux. When you have been offended or hurt, you are at the crux of do I believe that that person will change, will ever change is actually sorry. And so that's kind of why we're bringing up all these questions because what happens inside of us, our hearts, it's like turmoil Aaron (13:17):And that. And that's exactly that. And I think the reason we ask these questions is because we believe the answer to them gives us justification to or not to forgive. Mm-hmm. Jennifer (13:32):I would even argue that we avoid answAarong them. I mean often I wrestle with the questioning, but I don't lead my heart to the answer . Right. Maybe because I know where it will lead Aaron (13:44):Me. Well, and here's my point I'm getting at okay with this is so whether we want to answer it or not, we think that the answer has to do with the response when in reality forgiveness has nothing to do with any of these questions. What doesn't matter what the answer to any of these questions are, in essence of if they aren't going to change, should I forgive the answer to the question of should you forgive has nothing to do with if they change or not. And so Jennifer (14:19):Do you think that by walking in forgiveness, the answer to these or questions get resolved? Aaron (14:26):They do. Yeah. They get answered. The only way they can is I should forgive . And here's the next question I have. Why Jennifer (14:35):You mean the most important question? The most important question. The most significant question. Aaron (14:38):Why does Jesus command us to forgive? Okay. Cuz we have all these other questions that we do ask ourselves trying to justify whether we should or should not, can or cannot, will or will not forgive. So my question to everyone listening and to myself, to me and to you is why does Jesus command us to forgive? You wanna read that verse in Matthew six? Jennifer (15:04):Yeah. It's Matthew six 12 through 15. And forgive us our debts as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your father forgive your trespasses. Aaron (15:25):So Jesus is asked by his disciples cuz they watch him pray and he must have prayed so drastically different than they've ever seen because they come to him and they say, teach us how to pray. They were raised Jews, they understood praying three times a day and pray all the things that they learned in Torah. But they go to Jesus and they're like, teach us. And he takes the opportunity not only to teach them how to pray, but also to teach them about forgiveness. And he tells them in the prayer, we pray to God forgive us as we forgive our debtors. But then afterwards he highlights for if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your father forgive your trespasses. And it's this idea that Jesus is, he's attacking this core thought of if someone's done something against me, then I can withhold against them. This was a tooth for tooth, eye for an eye mentality. And Jesus is saying, he's like, well if you want forgiveness, then you should forgive. Which lines up exactly what the golden rule do unto others as you'd have to do unto you. So he, he's purely saying, do you want God to forgive you? Of course, then forgive others. Jennifer (16:44):It's the difference between justice and mercy. Aaron (16:47):Yeah, Jennifer (16:47):Justice is what's deserved. But mercy is, is transformative and amazing and beautiful and different. Aaron (16:57):Well, and I'll eventually argue the fact that what we think is justice isn't just at all. Because I'll get there in a second. Okay. So this is why, this is what I think the answer is to Des, why does Jesus command us to forgive if forgiveness was a natural occurring response, meaning someone wrongs us, someone hurts us, I get slapped in the face, I get tripped and fall my fall down. Someone steals from me. Who knows you. You can name the plethora of ways someone going to wrong me. My is my natural response going to be, oh you, you know I forgive you. Sure. No. My natural response is going to be hurt defense. It's something that's na, the natural response in us is to protect ourselves, protect our pride, protect our flesh, protect our things. That's natural. But the fact is that forgiveness is a very unnatural phenomenon. Jennifer (17:57):Miracle. Aaron (17:59):It's a miraculous thing. It's, it's totally antithesis to human nature to nature in general. It goes against all natural responses and Desi desires, forgiveness goes against our natural defense mechanisms and responses. Justice or fairness is more natural. So you took from me, I'm going to take from you. This is the In the Greek. In the Greek or Yeah, I think it's Greek lex tele and Jennifer (18:29):It's, oh, I've never heard you Aaron (18:30):Say that before. It's this idea of it's the law of I for an I tooth. For tooth. If you steal, we take your hand. That was a thing that you would have your hand cut off. If you poked someone's eye out, then you would have your eye poked out. This was actually law. And Jesus is saying, well if that's the case then what we've done to God, what's the recourse for that? What's the punishment for that? So Jesus is showing what he intends to do through all of this. But that's our natural response is trying to balance the scales. Quote. Right? Cancel not canceling debt but making sure that debt gets paid right. So you did this wrong, you owe me, you're going to pay it. That's where I like we get the idea of payback. Yeah. Oh you paid me this, I'm going to pay you that you stole from me. I'm going to steal from you. So that's the natural response. The unnatural, like you said, miraculous and spiritual and supernatural. This is the word, is forgiveness. No. Forgiveness isn't something that comes from us at all. I think it's something that we must do in the power of the Holy Spirit. Something that we must do out of obedience to God's word, which is where it comes from. True forgiveness can only happen when we understand the miracle that we ourselves have received forgiveness for trespassing against the perfect and holy God. How does that make you feel? Jennifer (19:57):small. Yeah. In a really beautiful way. I just keep going. You're doing great. Okay. Aaron (20:05):So when we realize what it is that Christ did for us on the cross, we begin to see why we must also forgive that keyword must, we must also forgive. It's not whether they've repented, it's not whether they're going to change. It's not whether they, we can a answer all those questions however we want. But the answer is, I must forgive because I have been forgiven. That's the answer. So which Jennifer (20:36):You would only know, sorry to cut you off. Yeah, it's okay. You would only know if you're abiding in his word and reading his word to come up into verses like what you shared earlier, to know that the Father will only forgive you if you forgive others. Because if you claim to be a Christian and you're not in the word and you're not paying attention to those kinds of verses, then you won't walk in those ways. Yeah, correct. Aaron (21:04):Well and I'll highlight, so when Jesus is teaching about forgiveness, this is pre resurrection. This is pre him standing at the right hand of the Father. He has actually, and we'll learn this in a bit, there's so much scripture specifically on this concept of forgiveness. And I wanna encourage everyone listening to do a little study on it. Go in the word and learn about forgiveness. See where it shows up from the beginning of the book to the end of the book because it shows up a lot. It's a main theme of the gospel and we'll read this in a little bit, is the sins of the whole world have been forgiven. But if we're not forgiving, if we can't forgive, if we're holding withholding forgiveness, we're not actually operating or acting or walking in or as you said, believing that we ourselves have received forgiveness. Because if we understood it, if we believed it, if we knew it, if we meditated and if we recognize, wow, I can't believe that I can be forgiven by a holy God, then I'm not, that I'm not being forgiven by God cuz I'm forgiven in Christ already. I'm not receiving it. So here's the big thing, Jennifer (22:21):Okay, wait, there's Aaron (22:21):Bigger things. Well this concept is what helped me, forgive you, forgive us, forgive me. Helped our marriage not fall apart into little pieces. Was recognizing this one truth. If I withhold forgiveness, I put myself in the place of God. Jennifer (22:46):Okay, share more about what you mean. Aaron (22:49):If I withhold forgiveness, I put myself in place of God. So God's holy, perfect cannot dwell in with sin. Right? And yet we deserve judgment because we have sin against him. We deserve his wrath because he is righteous and jest and yet he has forgotten our sins. They have been cast as far as the east is from the west. They're at the bottom of the ocean in Jesus Christ. All our sins have been forgiven. But if you wrong me, you've done something, you said something mean you, whatever, anyone, and I say I'm not going to forgive you or I can't forgive you, then what I'm saying is what you've done to me is more than what I or the world has done to God. (23:49):God can forgive but not me. That's why Jesus makes such a big point about this. And we're going to read, and Matthew read it in a second, just how important this is. And this will make much more sense. So if God has forgiven me, all my sin paid, all my debt, overlooked all my choices that were against him, and then I go and withhold forgiveness, require the outstanding emotional and spiritual debt to be paid in full with interest and choose to only see the bad in others while requiring perfection before I offer forgiveness, then I, I'm no better than this wicked servant. We're going to learn about that Jesus shares about I'm no better and this doesn't just go for my wife or my kids or my parents. It goes for anyone in the world. And so babe, would you read Matthew 18? It's a handful of verses, but this parable shows so specifically and it comes on the heels of Peter asking Jesus how many times he should forgive. This is what he's exactly about. Yeah. Jennifer (25:05):Then Peter came up and said to him, Lord, how often will my brother sin against me? And I forgive him as many as seven times. Jesus said to him, I do not say to you seven times, but 77 times, therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants. When he began to settle, one was brought to him who owed him 10,000 talents. And since he could not pay his master ordered him to be sold with his wife and children and all that he had and payment to be made. So the servant fell on his knees, imploring him, have patience with me and I will pay you everything. And out of pity for him, the master of the servant released him and forgave him his debt. But when the same servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denari and se and seizing him. (25:53):He began to choke him saying, pay what you owe. So his fellow servant fell down and pleaded with him, have patience with me and I will pay you. He refused and went and put him in prison until he should pay the debt. When his fellow servants saw what had taken place, they were greatly distressed and they went and reported to their master all that had taken place. Then his master summoned him and said to him, you wicked servant. I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me and should not, you have had mercy on your fellow servant as I had mercy on you. And in his anger his master delivered him to the jailers until he should pay all of his debt. So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you if you do not forgive your brother from your heart. Aaron (26:40):So I got a question for everyone. Do, do you think that God cares about how we forgive? Jennifer (26:47):Yes, Aaron (26:48):I think so. If you think about this story in Matthew that Jesus gives to Peter, Peter comes, how many times should we forgive our someone who sins against us? There's there's a king or master and then there's two servants. No, not one was over the other. Cuz it says that he went to his fellow servant. There were peers, there's a master, two servants. Jennifer (27:10):Well also real quick, that question that he had for him goes back to that list of questions that you asked all of us. It's just part of that Aaron (27:18):Wrestling times. He did it again. Should I forgive him again? Jennifer (27:20):Just wanna point that out. Yeah. Aaron (27:22):And I just wanna point out in the SV it says 77 times. So he says, should I forgive him seven times? And Jesus says, no, you should forgive him 77 times. But the other way that's translated is 70 times seven, 70 sevens is more accurate and that's 490 if you multiply it the right way. So I'll get to that in a second. So we have the master, we have two servants. The one servant owes the master cuz that master or God, cuz I'm going to break this down, wants to settle accounts. So he is like, Hey, you owe me 10,000 talents. That's 20 years of today's wages, 20 years. He's like, I need you right now, pay up. No one could do that. , Jennifer (28:07):No one. Especially after being thrown in jail. I Aaron (28:09):Mean, yeah. He's like, well, he's like if you don't pay up, I'm going to throw you in jail. And he pleads, please, I'll pay you. And instead of the king saying, okay, I'll give you more time to pay me, he says, I forgive you. He wipes the debt clean cuz he can. Cuz he's the king. It's his debt, the money he's owed. He said, okay, wiped away. I wrote it off. That servant goes outside, grabs a fellow servant by the neck, , give me what you owe me. And he owes him a hundred and denari, which is a hundred days wages. It's a third of the year of wages, which is still a lot of money, but nothing in comparison to 20 years of wages. And he doesn't give the same mercy when pleaded against that the master or God gave him that. This right here is the exact picture of every situation in our life where we have an opportunity to forgive. We were forgiven a great debt. Every single one of us, you listening, every one of you, 10,000 talents, 20 years wages, an impossible debt that you would never be able to pay in a lifetime because you still have to live, you still have to eat, you still have to pay for things, you'll never be able to pay that. (29:28):And then we go to our fellow servants, our brothers, our sisters, our friends, our family, our spouse. Jennifer (29:33):Not even in the same manner that the master first approached his servant but harshly and aggressively. Aaron (29:41):So when you look at this picture, was the servant who was owed the a hundred denari acting in a position of the master. Yes, he was taking the place. He was not acting like a good one. And we go to our fellow brother and sister and our spouse and demand repayment of this a hundred Dari. Now I wanna ask you a question, Jennifer. Jennifer (30:05):You're asking a lot of questions in this episode. Aaron (30:07):Who was hundred Dari? Was it it? The fellow servants, Jennifer (30:14):The masters? Aaron (30:16):Yeah. So how much did the servant owe the master? 20 years wages. So the hundred denari that this servant wanted wasn't even his and he's demanding it. And so I take that to this idea of that when someone sins against us, we have to remember that that sin that was done against us was actually done against Christ and it was forgiven on the cross. Think about that. But we demand forgive. We demand something before we will forgive that sin. Yeah, Christ has already forgiven it. Jennifer (30:57):That's powerful. Aaron (30:59):So we could end just right there. Boom. Jennifer (31:02):So how do you do it? You just stop. Aaron (31:04):Yeah, just stop being angry. Jennifer (31:06):Oh man. Aaron (31:08):So why don't you read that next verse and first John, and we'll we'll Jennifer (31:12):Move forward. First John two, one through two, my little children. I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin, but if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father Jesus Christ, the righteous. He is the prop propitiation for our sins and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world Aaron (31:31):Whose sins, Jennifer (31:34):Everyone's Aaron (31:35):The whole world. The whole world. He says, not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. When Jesus said it's done, it is finished, he meant it. He is forgiven the sins of the whole world. Now this is a hard concept to understand because that doesn't mean that every single person's going to be in heaven because there's a difference between being forgiven and receiving forgiveness. Jesus has forgiven the sins of the whole world because his blood is 100% perfectly capable of forgiving the sins of the whole world. That's amazing. That's why we're asked commanded to forgive because Christ has forgiven. It's a simple complex thing. Jennifer (32:29):So when there is an offense, let's just bring it back to marriage really quick. When there is an offense, when there's hurt, when there's pain, when there's frustration, when there's anger, when there's all these emotions tied up to an event or a situation or a circumstance that happens and an interaction between a husband and wife, are we really unwilling to forgive someone else? Something that Christ chose to die for so that that person can be forgiven? Aaron (32:59):Which is why I go back to that statement of when we withhold forgiveness, we put ourself in place of God. We say, yeah, yeah, God forgives you, but I don't, and that's simple to be sitting here, not in this position where I feel like I'm frustrated or angry to realize how silly that sounds. Jennifer (33:22):But we've been in situations where we both feel really deeply about the things that we're struggling with. And it's hard to bring yourself to a place of true forgiveness. But I don't. But when in the middle of that, I'm not thinking that even the offense that you mm-hmm. Brought on was covered by Christ on the cross. I'm not thinking about that. I'm thinking about myself. Aaron (33:43):We're thinking about how our flesh was hurt. Yeah. But this is important. I wanna make a note. We've mentioned, I think we've touched on this topic in the past, forgiveness and reconciliation are not the same thing. And this is where going back to yes, the sins of the whole world, but that doesn't mean the whole world is reconciled. God desires the whole world to be reconciled in Christ. Jennifer (34:06):And it, it's a part of reconciliation. Aaron (34:09):It's the first step in reconciliation. There can be no reconciliation without forgiveness. But reconciliation requires two. Forgiveness requires one. Mm-hmm. So Jennifer (34:22):We have to, the bands remember the bands, Aaron (34:24):So Christ forgave, but reconciliation is the other party that is being forgiven, receiving it, receiving, recognizing, changing what repentance is. But that doesn't mean that happens. Just because we forgive doesn't mean the other person receives repent changes. (34:44):So forgiveness takes one, reconciliation takes two because that's both people being back in the same page right back and right relationship, which doesn't always happen. This, that's not what this subject's about today, this topic. But I just wanted to point that out that I think that's good. Just because you can forgive your spouse or your friend or your mom or whoever it is in your life, does not necessarily mean that boom, you're reconciled and relationships just made perfect again. But you can be walking in that forgiveness and in freedom and in obedience without the other person. But that hopefully the end result is reconciliation. The goal. That's the heart. So we got a few more scriptures here. Okay, Matthew 26, 28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for the forgiveness of sins. This is Jesus teaching at the last supper of what the cup and the bread meant. Acts 10 43 to him, all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness. Now this is showing that reconciliation part, they are forgiven, but everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name, the reconciliation of man to God. Ephesians one, seven. In him, we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses according to the riches of his grace. So we can forgive because we've B been forgiven. Jennifer (36:16):Sorry to interrupt you again. You kind of read through those pretty quickly. But as you read the Acts 10 43 1, something came to my mind, so I wanted to bring it up. So just to basically say it again, it says to him, all the prophets bear witness, that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name. And it made me think about the story in Matthew that we read. So did the servant who turned to his other fellow servant harshly and said, pay me. Did he not believe that his master covered his debt? Did he still feel like he was in bondage to that debt, that his master cleared him off and that's why he went Aaron (36:53):After? Well, he was clearly acting like that Hunter Dari was Jennifer (36:56):Mattered Aaron (36:56):To him enough to put this brother in prison. Interesting. He definitely didn't receive that grace, that mercy from his master in a grateful way. I mean, he's even called ungrateful and wicked. Jennifer (37:09):Maybe he, he didn't believe and he thought that maybe his master was going to come back after him. I don't know. I'm just trying to understand. Aaron (37:15):Well I'm glad that you brought Matthew 18 back up because I wanted to, there was something I wanted to bring up in that Oh perfect. About how many times we should forgive. And he tells it's 7 7, 7 77 or 70 sevens or 70 times seven, which is 490. And 490 is the exact number of Daniels 70 week prophecy. Mm-hmm. So 70 sevens. And it means to the end of time, the how hold. Right. Even that four 90 years, that 70 sevens, that 70 week prophecy is to the end of time, to the end of all things, to the reconciliation of all things. If you go back and read Daniel, I believe it's chapter nine, it talks about this 70 week prophecy, which leads up to Christ the second coming of Christ, not his first coming and his second coming. That's the whole prophecy. And so he's essentially telling his Peter like, well you're going to forgive forever because I've forgiven you all things. There is no end to the forgiveness because you've been forgiven so you can forgive. So thank you for bringing that back up. I wanted to bring that Jennifer (38:24):Up. That's why I did it. No, we're good. Yep. So this is all really good heart stuff. I mean, these are the things, God's word and recognition of what forgiveness means and where it comes from that needs to lead us when our emotions are feeling those frustrations when our flesh is being reminded of our hurt or pain when the enemy sees us and our weakness or tempts us to withhold pride. And I'm just thinking with those listening, what's the practical in that moment of feeling that flood, flood of emotion and concern and pain and anger Aaron (39:09):And just that unwilling, like I can't Jennifer (39:12):Like Yeah. How do you flip that switch from being offended to stop to stopping and saying, I forgive you and meaning it? Aaron (39:20):Well I think meditating in the gospel, because remembAarong what we've been forgiven of, remembAarong that we are forgiven is the beginning of all. This is the gospel. It's the good news of Jesus Christ, the forgiveness of sins. But that doesn't negate all of the hormones our body is feeling and all the chemical reactions in our Jennifer (39:44):Brains and all of that. Because it is biological too. No, yeah, this is, please feel it. Yeah. Aaron (39:48):It's hard. But I know that the Bible promises, God promises that with every temptation he provides a way of escape Corinthians. And that's what this is, is in those moments, there's a physical fleshly temptation that boils up within us to withhold and say, I'm not going to give it until you have done this or done that. Jennifer (40:12):Being contingent on their response. Aaron (40:15):And I believe God by His Holy Spirit speaks to us every one of his children, everyone who claims the name of Christ, those listening, you hear from God when you're in that moment that you're reminded that you should forgive, you're reminded that you're getting angry, that still small voice, that prick. And you could either push it away and say no, and keep fighting. Or you could listen to it. And it takes, sometimes it could take practice, practicing, listening, practicing and forgiving even when you don't feel like it. Maybe it starts with forgiving internally. You say it in your, I forgive 'em, I forgive 'em, I forgive her, I forgive her. They don't mean it. I love them repeating truths. They're my spouse. We're one on the same team. This is temporary. Trying to say that stuff to you that could A help your biological response, this chemical thing that's going on, the positive thinking helps it. But it also is reminding your spirit of the truth and helps you to navigate that. Jennifer (41:26):I think those are really good. And I just wanna point out, when you said physical response or biological, I also wanna say the positive to forgiveness is that it's healthy forgiveness brings mm-hmm. Peace to our bodies and our minds. And when we're dealing with all kinds of different stresses in life, it's like if we can control the stress in our relationship of being able to offer forgiveness, that is going to change what's happening inside of our bodies. And I think it's good for us, it's healthy for us. And I just wanted to bring that out cuz there are negative effects to things like anger when they get built up inside of us. So that's good. And then also, I think it's really, really a good practical advice, what you just said about acknowledging and remembAarong the truths that we are one, that we're on the same team and that not one is perfect. I'm not perfect, you are not perfect. And there's going to be times that I fail and I want you to forgive me. And so that going back and forth, going Aaron (42:25):That golden roll Jennifer (42:25):Again, sharing mercy and sharing grace. And so I think those are really good, really good answer to what I asked about practical in the moment. Aaron (42:34):And like I said, it can sound, it sounds very easy in this moment when there's no turmoil, no emotional response, it's just talking about it. So when we fail, we recognize it and we say, oh, I'm really sorry I didn't forgive you quicker. Yeah. I wanna forgive you my, I love you. But also when outside of the marriage, when it comes to other relationships, you may not ever be able to tell the person that you forgive them. This is a reality. Jennifer (43:04):I was going to ask you this. Is it true forgiveness if you can't say I forgive you. Aaron (43:09):Absolutely. I go back to forgiveness takes one, reconciliation takes two. And a part of the forgiveness process, let's say there's a broken relationship and they're distant, you know, haven't spoken in a long time. I, I've known people that have walked through this. It starts with first forgiving. Like, okay, they're also human, they make mistakes. It's Jennifer (43:32):Having compassion. God, you love them for them. Yeah, Aaron (43:35):I know that I'm hurt, I know that this was wrong. I pray that the way that this happened gets dealt with appropriately well. And God, if it's your will allow reconciliation work in their hearts, that's good. Also, sometimes reconciliation isn't possible. I would say that's more rare. Not going to bring up the times that happens, but that is a real thing. But God still wants us to be able to walk in forgiveness and freedom of that forgiveness. Jennifer (44:06):Totally. And I would just encourage those listening that if you're ever in a situation where you do truly forgive, but you don't have that opportunity to say the words I forgive you, which leads to that reconciliation, even just telling a friend or your spouse about the situation and how you forgave them is so powerful. I had a situation in my own life where, remember this? Yeah. I couldn't actually reconcile with someone about something. And the moment I realized I truly forgave that person, I went straight to my best friend and I told her, Hey, this thing just happened. I feel like God really helped me process everything. And I just wanted to tell someone I forgive them. Aaron (44:53):It also drastically changed you. Jennifer (44:55):It's healing. It's really beautiful. And if you can't tell someone or you maybe don't feel comfortable telling someone, just write it down in a journal and Aaron (45:03):Write Jennifer (45:04):It in a letter. God. And just, I don't know, for some reason, getting it out of your heart and mind and just, I don't know, sharing it with someone or writing it down, it does help kind of in that sharing process. Aaron (45:19):Absolutely. Well and there's something about writing something down and speaking something out loud that makes it real. And that's a powerful thing. It sticks with you. Yeah, for sure. Well, and just it's evidence of, in something that happened internally. Yeah. It's saying, oh, I'm going to say this Jennifer (45:37):Recognition, Aaron (45:39):The last thing I wanna say about forgiveness, especially when in the situation of where you may be reconciliation may not be feasible, maybe you can't reconnect with this person or whatever, forgiveness. A big part of it is saying, God, I'm going to trust you with the other person. I'm going to trust you with me. Help me navigate how I think about this person. How I pray for them, how I love them. Even if it's from a distance. And then trusting God with the other person saying, God, I trust you that you are going to work in that person's life. That you are going to deal with their sin, that you're going to deal with their heart and how they see me and what they've done wrong. And cuz here's the best judge of all of this. Jennifer (46:28):I was going to say, it releases you from that fleshy part of us that is justice, or this is what you need to do to teach them a lesson, or whatever the thing is. And you're saying trust and you're saying God, you mm-hmm. Are the one who teaches and convicts and corrects and loves and he does it all. And we can trust him to do Aaron (46:51):That. He does it by his spirit. And so as we've said many times, we don't have to be other people's. Holy Spirit. The holy spirit's plenty good at that. Yeah. So we back off and we say, okay, spirit of God, you do your thing. Yeah. Do it in me. Do it in them. And then man, you step out of that prison we talked about. Yep. You let go of that band. You're Jennifer (47:15):Feeling healthy, you Aaron (47:16):Yeah. You're you. That poisons you've, you've taken the antidote. Yeah. You, you're going to be able to stand with God and be like, okay, I trust you. Figure this stuff out. Yeah. Because Jennifer (47:29):We were kind of switching back and forth between other relationships and marriage. And just to bring it back to marriage real quick, reconciliation is the goal. So yes, being able to say, I forgive you is really powerful. We've experienced this in our own marriage from the beginning saying, I forgive you, helps move things forward. And so be willing, ready to forgive and to say, I forgive you and mean it for the sake of reconciliation. And then you said something else twice that I wanted to bring up for a part of that practical, what can I do? And it's prayer. When you feel offended, when you feel hurt, when you feel angry, we should pray. We should pray for ourselves. We should pray for understanding, we should pray for the other person. I think that that's really important. And I didn't wanna that to be overlooked. Aaron (48:22):Often you brought a prayer. When I'm in these heated, again, they're rare, but when I'm heated and I feel like icky. Yeah. And I don't know what to do, I say, God, I literally don't know what to do. Yeah. Help. That's all. And often that's the only thing I can get out because I just don't know what to do. And I'm like, okay, I help me please. And often he does. Yeah. Not often. Every time he does when I ask. Jennifer (48:52):So when we've struggled with unforgiveness in our marriage, even if it's for a short time and it's withheld, it affects every part of our relationship. I know Aaron (49:04):Our kids are our relationship, Jennifer (49:06):But even just my desire to be close to you, our ability to engage with one another. We've had date nights where we're pretty quiet and it's like, mm-hmm man, we really need to fix what's going on here. But just being able to enjoy one another. Every aspect of our relationship, the friendship, the intimacy, the the partnership, all of it gets affected. And so we wanted to bring this to you guys today because we know how important forgiveness is to marriage. In order to build a healthy, strong, thriving and spiritual, spiritually thriving marriage, we have to be willing to forgive. And so our encouragement to you today is hopefully you've been hope, hopefully you've been encouraged by what we've shared today to consider is there any unforgiveness in my heart toward my spouse or towards anyone? And God, how can you lead me through it your way? Aaron (50:06):Yeah. All right. That's really good. Why don't you do the weekly challenge? Jennifer (50:12):Okay, so switching gears here. This is yay . Go on a fun date night together. I threw some examples out there, but you know what? The snow seasons upon us here in Oregon. And so I just wanna encourage everyone to be willing to go outside, even when it's cold. go ice skating if you don't wanna for a walk, Aaron (50:35):Whatever. If you don't wanna go outside and do something cold. We just did a date night with some friends and we bought a new game. Jennifer (50:39):We went to, there was a game store. We went to a game store, picked out a game. We couldn't stay there because they were having some tournament thing. Yeah. But we went somewhere else and we played a game and it was Aaron (50:49):Fun and it was a lot of fun. And now we have a new game in our arsenal of games. Jennifer (50:53):Should we tell 'em what it is? Aaron (50:54):Yeah, yeah. Jennifer (50:55):You like it? It's a small white box. It's a card game. And it's called Aaron (51:00):I think it's called the Coup. Jennifer (51:01):Coup. Yeah. Aaron (51:02):Yeah. It's very simple, but it's a very fun. All right. Will you pray for us? Jennifer (51:06):Yes. Dear Lord, thank you for the gift of forgiveness. Thank you for dying for our sins, that we may be forgiven and receive eternal life. We pray our hearts and minds would understand the depths of your forgiveness and be ready and willing to forgive others, especially our spouse. When our flesh is fighting for justice and it feels hard to forgive, and our emotions overwhelm us, please lead us to faithfully trust you and walk in your ways. We pray we would stop being angry. We pray we would not let frustration have a foothold in our marriage. Please help us to be quick to forgive, but also to be quick to reconcile in our marriage. May we pursue peace as we remind each other of the peace you have brought us through salvation. In Jesus' name, amen. Thank you for joining us for another episode of the Marriage After God podcast. Aaron (51:51):If you found today's episode fun and encouraging, please take a moment to share it on social media or in an email to some of your married friends. Jennifer (51:57):Also, would you please take a moment and leave us a review, reviews help to spread the word about our podcast? Aaron (52:02):Be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode, and you can always check out more of our resources@marriageaftergod.com. Jennifer (52:07):You can follow us on social media for more marriage encouragement on Facebook and Instagram at Marriage after God at Husband Revolution, and at Unveiled Wife. Aaron (52:16):We hope you have an incredible week and look forward to sharing more with you next week on The Marriage After God podcast.  Connect With UsInstagram | @marriageaftergodInstagram | @unveiledwifeInstagram | @husbandrevolutionCheck out our marriage resources!SponsorsGet our new book The Marriage Gift - 365 prayers for your marriage!Our Sponsors:* Check out Mr. Pen and use my code MAG10 for a great deal: https://mrpen.comSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/marriage-after-god-biblical-advice-practical-tips-and-inspiring-/donations

In Today's episode, we are going to dive into talking about chicken coops - okay, not a KNOW-HOW, but more so what we learned about working together to finish a hard thing.Today's episode is brought to you by our book set 31 Prayers For My Future Husband / WifeNow, most of our listeners are probably already married, so you won't need this set. But you do know someone who could benefit from it. A teenager, niece or nephew, a friend. These books include 31 days of prayers for a person desiring to get married one day, maybe they are currently single or maybe they are already engaged. This book set will be a blessing to read and pray through. So if you are single or in a serious relationship but not yet married, or if you know someone who would be excited to know more about these books, please go to Shop.marriageaftergod.Com or even amazon.com!  We hope that by sharing our little story you can apply any wisdom we gained in hindsight to be a blessing in your marriage. Because we all know we do hard things together. It will inevitably come up…..a DIY project, a job, a ministry opportunity, or just raising kids. READ TRANSCRIPTJennifer (00:09):Hi, and welcome to the Marriage After God podcast. Aaron (00:12):We're your hosts Aaron Jennifer Smith. We Jennifer (00:14):Have been married 15 years and have five sweet children who are growing up way too fast. Aaron (00:18):We love God and we love marriage Jennifer (00:20):And we love to be honest about it Aaron (00:21):All. Marriage is not always a walk in the park, but we do believe it has a powerful purpose. Jennifer (00:25):So our goal here is to open up the conversation to talk about our faith and our marriage, Aaron (00:30):Especially in light of the gospel. Jennifer (00:32):We certainly don't have all the answers, but if you stick around, we may just make you laugh. Aaron (00:35):But our hope is to encourage you to chase boldly after God's purpose for your life together. Jennifer (00:39):This is Marriage after God. Aaron (00:47):Hey, welcome back to another episode of the Marriage After God podcast. We're your hosts, Aaron Jennifer (00:52):And Jen. Jennifer, Jen. Jen, Jen Aaron (00:54):. So glad you're here. In today's episode, we're going to be diving into a talk about our chicken coop. Jennifer (01:02):I told you not to be weird. I told you Aaron (01:04):Guys the problem is you need tell me not to be. Jennifer (01:07):When we went to go start, I said, please don't be weird, but we're not just talking about chicken coops like a know-how. More so what we learned about working together and finishing something hard Aaron (01:17):Because it was very difficult. This chicken coop, Jennifer (01:22):Today's episode is brought to you by our book set, 31 Prayers for My Future Husband and Wife. Well, there's the 31 prayers for my Future husband and the 31 prayers for my Future Wife. Now, most of you listening are probably already married, so you won't need this set, but you probably know someone who would benefit from it like a teenager in your life. Niece, nephew, a friend. These books include 31 Prayer Days of Prayer for a person desiring to get married one day. So maybe they're currently single or maybe they're already engaged. This book set will be a blessing to them to read and pray through. So if you are single listening right now or in a serious relationship but not yet married or if someone who'll be excited about these books, please go to shop dot marriage after god.com or Amazon to check it out. Aaron (02:06):Awesome. So Jennifer (02:09):I feel like I'm getting better at those Aaron (02:11):By the way. You are getting better at those a little bit. A little bit, yeah. But there's something that's coming up that's pretty important. Jennifer (02:20):I know I haven't cried about it yet, but there's something very significant about our oldest son turning 10. Aaron (02:27):Yeah. He's no longer in the second or the single digits Jennifer (02:31):And he never will be double digits again. Yeah, this is a huge deal. Can you believe Aaron (02:35):It? Yeah. And as he said, he, he'll be in triple digits when he is turns a hundred, so that's awesome. He's going to be in the double digits for quite a while. Jennifer (02:43):So I don't know if we already mentioned this, but 10 years ago we read Love Does by Bob Goff. It came out the same year that he was born and so he was a baby and I remember specifically getting so excited about the part of the book where he talks about taking his kids on these 10 year year old adventures. So if you've read the book, you know exactly what Aaron (03:01):You're talking about. Probably my favorite part of the book Jennifer (03:03):Actually. Yeah, it's what stuck with us. Sometimes you read something and it just totally sticks. Well, we've talked about it every year with every kid's birthday and we remind each other how great this will be and we've prepared ourselves for Aaron (03:13):It. until it comes up and you're like oh Jennifer (03:15):Wow, that's kind of a big deal. So we know that. We know Elliot, and we've talked to him enough to know that his ultimate dream excursion would probably be to South America. South America, right. Aaron (03:27):South America. Tropical snakes, po deadly, poisonous things. Jennifer (03:32):Some birds. Something is stuck with that kid that South America is like dream world for him. I Aaron (03:37):Don't know Jennifer (03:38):The rainforest Aaron (03:39):And I would love to take him to Brazil. Jennifer (03:40):Well, what it probably is is he, Aaron has shared stories with him from Brazil when you went on your trip. So he probably connects to you with that, Aaron (03:47):But he wants it. Jennifer (03:48):Okay. But we're not taking him to South America. Aaron (03:50):No. We thought about him, we're like, I'm not taking sun out of the country right Jennifer (03:54):Now. Not yet. But we were like, well what's comparable? What's like, where is there somewhere kind of gives you that tropical filling? Maybe not in this season, but  Aaron (04:04):Most seasons Jennifer (04:05):What we thought about was Florida Aaron (04:08):And he's actually mentioned he wants to go there. Also, his ideal would be of course South America, but I think Florida, in his mind, it matches all those things. There's palm, he has this thing about palm trees. Jennifer (04:18):So real quick, where do dreams like that come from? Because when you're a kid you have, well, he's been learning over the years, but I mean what does the basis for something like that kind of stem up from? I'm kidding. Aaron (04:29):I have no idea. But something, there's something in his heart that he desires. Maybe it's because we live in a place that gets cold. He deserves, Jennifer (04:35):He's the complete opposite. He wants, Aaron (04:37):Yeah, whatever's the opposite I guess. But that's funny is he also loves the snow and all this stuff, but there's something about him. He wants to go see some poisonous snakes and he wants to go see these Jennifer (04:47):Colorful birds. I'm saying kids have preferences and I just always get curious on what sets them on that, that path or that thing that Aaron (04:54):We should mention to everyone listening just in case they ever mention to our son. This is a surprise. Jennifer (04:59):Like friends of ours Aaron (05:00):Listening and they can't tell him. He doesn't know. So Jennifer (05:02):Until it happens, what's going to happen is he's going to wake up him up early on his birthday and surprise him with a few days in Florida and you guys are going to go explore and where are you going to take him? Aaron (05:14):It's going to be fun. We're going to do some things. We're going to eat some alligator and we're going to go, okay, we're going to go. What are those airboat rides? Jennifer (05:20):Like the swamp rides? Yeah. Aaron (05:21):I don't know if it's going to be beach weather necessarily, but it might be beach weather for us. Cuz we're like, I have no idea in cold weather. And if it's 70 we'll probably go out to the beach Jennifer (05:31):And we're like a national Park family. It's like we always try and hit 'em up wherever we go. We have the game, the national park game. What national park are you going to take 'em to? Aaron (05:38):The Everglades. Cool. Jennifer (05:40):I really have, that Aaron (05:40):Works out. I've never been that far south. We lived in Florida for a little bit. We never went this far south. Yeah, why not? I Jennifer (05:45):Don't know. Oh, we were broke. Aaron (05:46):That's what it was. Jennifer (05:47):Yeah. Gas, gas money. Aaron (05:48):We were Jennifer (05:49):Broke. We should have explored Florida while we were Aaron (05:51):Leaving, but we're, I'm going to take him there and it's going to be fun a few days. Jennifer (05:54):So it's not a cost effective type birthday. He Aaron (05:59):Only Jennifer (05:59):Gets one. It's in a Aaron (06:01):Splurge. He only gets one. Jennifer (06:02):Yeah, one 10 year old birthday. Yeah, that's it. Aaron (06:04):But then when he's like 20, he gets to take me on a trip. So we'll talk about that on the trip. What Jennifer (06:09):Are you most excited to do? Because I'm jealous. I'm over here going, man, I should have been Aaron (06:12):The one now. I'm excited about all the stuff of course. But I'm mostly excited about having a few days just alone with Elliot. I think he's what he's going to be most excited about because Jennifer (06:23):We always do stuff as a family and there's five kids and so it's a constant loud, busy Aaron (06:29):Well and trying to split attentions and all the things and our kids feel it and I think it's going to be a really awesome thing. No breakup, just have a few days and where he knows it's just me and him. I'm not going to bring my computer. I'm not going to. I'll have my phone phone of course, but it's not going to be a work trip. Nothing like that. Just me and him. Cool. So I'm mostly excited just about the hours with him. Jennifer (06:49):What kind of questions are you going to ask him or do you know? I don't know. Gosh, Aaron (06:52):I don't know man. Jennifer (06:53):Maybe ask him if he has any questions. Aaron (06:55):Actually really good at questions. Jennifer (06:56):He's a good conversation. Aaron (06:58):So I'll ask him a lot to ask me questions. But I do, I kinda wanna know who he is becoming, what kind of man he is becoming. Cool. I wanna explore that with him. So awesome. I'm excited for that. But on some more important topics, chicken Jennifer (07:13):Coops. Aaron (07:13):Chicken coops. Jennifer (07:14):Do you guys even wanna hear about chicken coops? Aaron (07:17):Yeah. It's funny that people are probably like, what are they talking about? But why? We do normal things in this life and sometimes not nor so normal things, but all things we know God can use and God does. And it used these things in our life and turns Jennifer (07:33):Them into podcasts, Aaron (07:33):Turns 'em into podcast episodes and that's most important here. Jennifer (07:36):Okay. How did we tie chicken coops into this idea of encouragement for finishing a hard thing? Because that's really what we're getting at is as a married couple, how do you do hard things? Well, Aaron (07:48):And that's the good question. That's the question to ask because all of us, everyone listening, we have, there's things that just pop up in life. They're pretty extraordinary things, but they have real effects on us, emotionally, spiritually, mentally, Jennifer (08:03):Challenges, they're difficult. Aaron (08:05):And as we always talk about how do we deal with these things? What is God using these things to drop in us and pull out of us. And I think that's what we're trying to talk about. What is God? What was God showing us? Well, when of this chicken Jennifer (08:19):Coop and when we were talking about drawing this into an episode I think the hardest part, just right off the bat about this whole process was we didn't know exactly what we were doing. It wasn't like we had plans, we were, Aaron (08:32):I've never built a chicken coop before. Jennifer (08:33):We've never built it before. We've never had chickens before. And we had this space in our backyard that we were kind of stuck in a box to use and so to speak. We wanted to, Aaron (08:43):Wanted to. Yeah. And we'll get into that a little bit. But this thing is not your ordinary run of the mill chicken Jennifer (08:49):Coop. Why can't we just do ordinary things sometimes Aaron (08:52):We don't do ordinary things. Everything we do is extraordinary. Jennifer (08:55):Jennifer, I had a friend call it the Chicken Taj Mahal. Aaron (08:59):This thing is not small Jennifer (09:00):So big, but I told a friend of mine while you were out there building it one day I took a snapshot and I sent it to a friend and I said, if Aaron just ran plumbing out there, we could rent it out on Airbnb for chicken lovers. Aaron (09:13):I made the same joke without knowing you made that joke serious to the guys because it's funny, this thing is 400 square feet and I'm only saying that because that's to show the scale of what we're doing. Yeah, I didn't realize. Jennifer (09:25):But we also don't have four chickens. We have Aaron (09:27):A lot of chicken. We have 23 currently. Yeah, yeah. Jennifer (09:29):We've been watching a lot of YouTube on how to, well even just had basic chicken Aaron (09:34):D, iy chicken, Jennifer (09:35):How do you do chickens and how do you build coops and how do you take care of 'em? And Aaron (09:39):Apparently there's a lot of videos Jennifer (09:40):And there's this thing called chicken math and everyone who owns chickens I guess knows that you can't just start out with one two. Well Aaron (09:47):You tell you yourself if you're going to get three and you're like, but you know what Jennifer (09:49):You end up with 30. Yeah. Aaron (09:51):And that's where we're at right now. Jennifer (09:53):Apparently some people in our family really like the chickens. Aaron (09:55):Well let's start off with me wanting zero chickens and now we have 23, so don't give away the Jennifer (10:00):How does that No, we're not there Aaron (10:01):Yet. How does that work? Jennifer (10:03):Okay, so do you wanna explain real quick the shed and the post ordeal now what it was and what happened? Aaron (10:08):Okay. Yeah. So lemme give you some back story. Set. The scene, we bought this property and on the property was a shop. It had all these, it's a, what do you call, pole barn. Yeah. It's got eight poles on the ground, concreted in, and then all this sheet metal around it. And it was already here, Jennifer (10:24):But we had to take it down. Aaron (10:25):We had to take it down. It was a part of our permitting to get the house, to build the house. And so when we were getting towards the end of building the house, I literally spent two weeks taking every piece of it apart, unscrewing every screw, taking every piece of sheet metal down taking every piece of wood down ke and w the whole time. We're trying to recover every bit of material we can Jennifer (10:48):Because we knew we had projects around the house that we wanted to use it Aaron (10:51):For. Lots of things we're like, oh, tree houses and chicken coops and bunk beds and bunk beds and all these things. And if anyone out there has been doing any projects, lumber is just crazy expensive. And so I'm thinking I'm just going to keep all of this as I can. And I took the whole thing apart, stacked it all up next to our garage and waited to use it. And we had all these posts in the ground, concreted in just sitting there waiting for us to do something with. And my thought was, I don't wanna waste these posts. They're already here. They're already kind of shaped out. Why don't we just build our coop Jennifer (11:23):Into us? The ground was level and clear so it made the most sense. And Aaron (11:27):Originally we were going to kind of split this shop in half and say half of it was going to be chicken coop, half would be maybe a greenhouse. And as we're going to talk about it, we Jennifer (11:35):Got really excited about the space we could provide for our chickens. Aaron (11:38):We're like, we can give this chickens the best life ever. So that's kind of the backstory of why this thing is so big. The size of the shop. was the shop. Jennifer (11:50):It's smaller than the shop, it Aaron (11:52):Was going to be 40 by 20 cuz that's how deep it was. It was 20 ish feet deep, but now it's 40 by 10. Cuz we took some of the posts and moved them, Jennifer (12:02):Which a large portion of it is the run Aaron (12:03):Is most of it is this chicken run. And then a small part is this is the coop. And so that's kind of the backstory on our little chicken coop. Jennifer (12:11):And we wanted to share that. We hope that by sharing our story, we're not just talking about how we did this thing but Aaron (12:18):We're not giving DIY tips. Jennifer (12:20):I mean if they hear any that they wanna use, that's fine. Aaron (12:23):Our next podcast I DIY projects are in Jennifer (12:25):The house. No, but the importance of this episode is that you guys can apply any wisdom that we gained in building this project but we gained it. In hindsight, Aaron (12:36):We look back and I'm like, how could we have done that Jennifer (12:39):Anyways, as we should share it with you, we just hope that it blesses your marriage because we all know that we do hard things in marriage, Aaron (12:45):Aaron. Well, just in life, just in life, there's lots of hard things. So Jennifer (12:49):It will inevitably come up like a D R Y project, a job, a ministry opportunity or just raising our kids, Aaron (12:56):Just raising our kids. The hardest project we got going on as our kids. Jennifer (13:00):But we do hard things Aaron (13:02):And that's something that we tell our kids. And so that's something that is, it's like a unintended bonus phrase that we doing this Jennifer (13:09):That's like a phrase that we Aaron (13:11):Our Jennifer (13:12):Tell our kids, Aaron (13:12):We tell our kids we do hard things. Jennifer (13:14):No, we say we're the dismiss. We do hard things. Aaron (13:17):We make a whole over and over again statement about it Jennifer (13:18):Because we want them to do hard things when they're older. Aaron (13:20):And so lesson number one that we learned from this pretty large project, larger than we thought, bigger than we expected, harder than we thought. Cuz I actually, in my mind, I tend to you minimize, I'm very positive thi thinker. I'm like, oh, this is going to be so easy. It was not is we do hard things and that's okay because there's lots of hard things in life and they're good and can be good Jennifer (13:47):I should say. And the reason we embrace doing hard things as a couple is because we give our children the opportunity to witness and sometimes participate in seeing that and in seeing how a marriage can work it out Aaron (14:02):Together. Not only did my kids see me sweating and bleeding and all the things of taking all the metal in the wood and Jennifer (14:09):Helping you take screws Aaron (14:10):Out of things and helping me take screws out and recovAarong all of that material and spending weeks doing that, they also experienced us taking all of that thing we did Jennifer (14:18):And building something beneficial and Aaron (14:20):True. Turning it into something new that we wanted that's actually kinda beautiful and functional too, which is actually most important. Jennifer (14:26):So lesson number one, we do hard things. So I get this text from my friend Midsummer and she's got these extra chickens and she needs to find them a home mind. Our house is not finished at this point, but there we're living in our trailer. But there is electric, there is electricity and we've always talked about getting chickens. So I'm thinking why not now? Yeah, Aaron (14:45):Well part of the idea of the property is like, hey, we'll have some chickens and we'll use it and make, Jennifer (14:49):We were in dream mode up until this point. But then it became a reality of it was all time an opportunity. So Aaron says to me, no, no, this Aaron (15:00):Is pretty much was like, this is Jennifer (15:01):Not Aaron (15:01):A good time, the right time to get some chickens. Jennifer (15:04):So that was back in July today and it's Aaron (15:07):Still not a good time to have chickens Jennifer (15:10):Because I'm being serious because we were talking about this because the learning curve for us never owning chickens before, the finances that goes into taking care of them and building this, Aaron (15:20):All of the projects that we need to get done on the house. Jennifer (15:21):Just everything else that we functional, the requirement of doing the coop and just Aaron (15:26):The money to spend on the chickens and just, you Jennifer (15:30):Had insight into all of this and you warned Aaron (15:32):Me. I did Jennifer (15:33):Warn, but warned didn't listen and I twisted your arm and I convinced you against Aaron (15:37):And it was supposed to be 12 chickens. Jennifer (15:40):Yeah, I'm really sorry. So lesson number two here now it is, it's Aaron (15:45):23. Jennifer (15:46):Lesson number two here. Moving on in the story is that the things that are important up front get pushed to the back burner when you make a rash decision or when you make a decision that's not fully thought through Aaron (16:01):When they're based on impulses, impulses, emotions, which Jennifer (16:05):My decision was based on impulse where you kind of just said, okay, you leaned into my desire for Aaron (16:11):I doing, it's my usual Jennifer (16:14):Stance with you . Aaron (16:15):Just so everyone's listening, my usual stance is to give you what you want. Jennifer (16:18):So what's your lesson number two here? I think it's a little bit different than Aaron (16:21):Everyone else. My lesson number two is I should stand my ground sometimes when it comes to chickens. Jennifer (16:27):All right. So I guess the point here is that Aaron (16:32):What things have we had to push off that are genuinely, I wouldn't say most important, but you don't have 'em now? Because I've been working on this chicken Jennifer (16:43):Goop. There was a couple things inside the house once it was built that we were like, we're going to add later a linen closet in going into my bathroom. There was going to be these awesome shelves and I was going to put my towels, Aaron (16:51):All her towels sit on our hutch. Jennifer (16:53):Yeah, just like, but I'm a place to go. Okay, so we, I'll give Aaron (16:58):About the thing that you Jennifer (17:00):Have to wait for. You have to weigh out the necessities is what you're saying. Yes. Okay. Aaron (17:05):So going into lesson three but also talking about lesson two, this idea of me standing my ground and saying, no, we're not going to do chickens. I think it's more important is to be better at calculating the cost as the word says that the builder counts the cost that we look at what does this mean if we're going to get these chickens? Because it's easy to glamorize it and say, oh it's going to be fun, it's going to easy. We just feed 'em and we put 'em in the little metal tin thing. And then my thought of, well the chicken coop's not going to be that hard. Which is also not true is going into lesson three is that we should be more heed, more wisdom and be respectful of insight. So I brought up like, hey, this is not the right time Jennifer (17:48):And I should difficult have let pride or desire cloud my judgment and listening to you. Aaron (17:53):Because we could have looked at it and been like, well we have all these other things that are important. Why don't we wait until those things are done? Which if we really wanted the chickens and waited, it would've pushed us. We could've been like, oh, let's get these other things done so that we can get the Jennifer (18:08):Chickens. We're in my backwards thinking. I thought if we get the chickens now, it'll push us. There was a lot more stress involved on my Aaron (18:14):Life. Kind of true. But then it actually, it stops us from doing the other things that were also necessity important, Jennifer (18:21):True learn from us. Aaron (18:22):And we weren't ready. That's another thing. We weren't ready for them. Which was the wisdom I gave. Jennifer (18:28):Yeah. Okay. So we get the chickens as babies and immediately the kids fall in love with them. And if I Aaron (18:34):Would've thought our kids would chickens so Jennifer (18:36):Much, Aaron (18:37):No. And Wyatts out there all the time, he's just holding the chickens. I always ask 'em like, how's your girls doing? And he just smiles at me. Jennifer (18:43):So if there's any redemption to this story at all, it's that the kids love the chickens and have a responsible, have a responsibility in caring for them. Aaron (18:51):See how could it be so wrong when it's so right. Jennifer (18:54):Yeah. I never grew up with animals like that. Aaron (18:57):I know Jennifer (18:59):That's Aaron (18:59):Another thing to consider actually is what we're capable , what we're capable of. You. You'd never grew up around many animals. You said you had a few animals but they weren't even yours. There were someone else's, right. Your sisters or your mom's. I grew up with tons of animals. My mom took it. We were just talking to the kids about this. Jennifer (19:18):So you really knew Aaron (19:20):I did what it would take. I literally did. Cuz it's never as easy as it sounds. My mom took it. Everything she found injured squirrels and injured birds and rabbits and Lisa, my mom, we had every kind of animal ferrets and parrots and rats and you just name it, we had it. Squirrels. My mom nursed a squirrel back to life once , nothing think was cute. I, I have much more experience on my side, but that's also tainted my view. And that's something we're going to talk about is this ability to transition and be able to embrace new things. But it did change my view on animals. You would think I'd be an animal lover. My mom, I do love animals much more than you do, I would say. Or I should. Are Jennifer (20:01):You learning? Aaron (20:02):I'm more prone to enjoy animals but at the same time I'm a little lazy now. I'm like that's a lot of work, those animals. So I understand it. But you Jennifer (20:11):Haven't been lazy with the chickens. Aaron (20:13):No, I'm, that's what I'm saying. I'm growing back into this. Oh I could handle animals again, Jennifer (20:18):Someone's gotta show the kids how to handle the animals. Aaron (20:20):No, they're better at it than I am. Like they go love on those animals so much. Jennifer (20:25):Okay, so you kind of already mentioned this, but lesson four is being careful when you're not prepared. We weren't prepared to build the main coop at the time that we got everything, all the chickens. And so we wasted some of our time cuz we ended up having to build a temporary coop before the main coup Aaron (20:43):Because they were little and living in these little metal tints Jennifer (20:46):And then they outg that and then we weren't, Aaron (20:47):They grow really fast. Jennifer (20:49):So if you don't wanna waste your time and you don't wanna waste your resources or anything, just be prepared. , be more prepared when you make the decision. Aaron (20:58):Yeah, it would've been better if we could've had the thing done before we got the chickens, but at the end of the day we also can't know. Yeah we were, we're learning. We're learning. And you know what, chickens are really resilient. They did. They've done great. Now Jennifer (21:12):They, I'm not so much they, Aaron (21:13):They're having a hard time going in the coop cuz they've lived out of a coop. So that's Jennifer (21:17):Not what I was going to mention. I was going to mention that they were free range for a little bit because the temporary cos were small. And so we let them out in the yard during the day. Aaron (21:24):They only stayed at night in these little temporary coops just to protect them. And then we would let 'em out. Free range. Jennifer (21:30):They pooped everywhere. And every once in a while if the slider, the sliding door got left open, we'd hear a kid yell, there's a chicken in the house, Aaron (21:36):Not ate chicken. There were several times that there was a flock no in the kitchen. Oh yeah. I'm not kidding. Jennifer (21:43):You guys did not know that I Aaron (21:44):Had to wipe up the poop. I had Jennifer (21:45):To, you guys did not tell me that. I'm glad you didn't tell me Aaron (21:48):That. All. When they're out, they come up to the sliding glass door and it's like they want to, they're like, what are you guys doing? Heck of the glass. Jennifer (21:54):They're very friendly chickens, they're follow us around. They just wanna play. Aaron (21:59):We think they're hungry but really they just wanna be near us and wanna be held. It's so f I like it a lot but at the same time I'm really the biggest motivation to finish the chicken coop was the poop on my patio because I don't mind the poop in the grass cuz it's good for the grass. But there was poop all over. They don't want to be on the grass. I don't get it. There's nothing on the patio for them but they cut all of them. Jennifer (22:20):So this isn't one of our lessons Aaron (22:21):Live on our patio. Jennifer (22:22):This isn't one of our lessons. Try and Aaron (22:23):Get in the house. Jennifer (22:24):If you don't wanna deal with animal poop, just say no to animals. Aaron (22:27):That's true. Cuz animals poop and shed, those are realities. Jennifer (22:34):So we couldn't get the main coop built until a few things got checked off of our list cuz we moved into the house. We had some inside projects like building the boys bunk beds and getting the beds off the floor. We had a deadline for our next book due. So that took a lot of our time and focus work life, starting a new season of homeschool, Aaron (22:53):Moving in, Jennifer (22:54):Starting the podcast. Aaron (22:55):We had a lot of stuff going Jennifer (22:56):On. I feel like every minute of the day was accounted for the whole next year. Aaron (23:00):It totally feels like that sometimes. But what finally motivated us to get moving and just do the chicken coop was knowing that winter was coming. Where we live now gets snow earlier than where we used to live gets. And so it was like this now there's like a deadline we see on the calendar. It's like snow's coming. We're like, oh, we should probably give them a place to stay. And that pushed us to move forward and start doing it. Jennifer (23:27):So when you started out to build a chicken coop, like I said earlier, you didn't have plans that you were going by. So you basically, no plans looked at this situation and you said, okay, this is where I should start. Aaron (23:39):Here's a post and here's a post and here's a post. Jennifer (23:41):You started measuring and then you had to go back to our scrap pile and see if pretty much piece by piece if we had what you needed as you went. Aaron (23:48):Yeah. The benefit of recycled wood is that I didn't have to pay for it. The downfall is that I literally have no idea what I have. And Jennifer (23:55):You had to check through all of it, make sure it's straight. Aaron (23:57):Yeah, well and then I would put a board up and then it's split in half cuz it was not good wood and I'd have to pull thing off. And so that's where the difficulty of this comes in is never doing this before. No plans. The wood is not new. And so I'm just dealing with literally hacked pieces of wood, old pieces of wood, twisted pieces of wood. Jennifer (24:19):And then every once in a while I'd catch you just kind of mid projects. Staring, staring, staring up at not Aaron (24:24):Every Jennifer (24:24):Once in a while, something and I'm standing behind you with my gloves on, ready to help going, what is the holdup? What are Aaron (24:29):You doing? Well you would constantly say, just do the next thing. I'm just go on, what's the next thing? Jennifer (24:33):I've got 800 things behind me needing my attention. Aaron (24:35):And I would look at you and I'd be like, I literally have no idea what I'm doing. Jennifer (24:38):So the next lesson is encouragement from a spouse goes a long way and I cut on pretty quick. So I use my words to remind you what you're capable of previous pro projects that you've accomplished. Aaron (24:48):Just keep going. Aaron, Jennifer (24:49):I pushed you to keep going and I told you remember how good you'll feel when you can say I did that . Kinda like how after I give birth and Aaron (25:00):It's like the encouragement was good. Hey because there was just did that, there was many times I genuinely wanted to quit because I would do a lot and be like, oh I'm awesome and this feels good and it looks great. And then I'd look at it and be like, oh but I didn't do that and I didn't do that or I did that wrong. Or my friend would come over who is a contractor and I'd be like, Hey you really should put some post between cuz that's not going to hold up the roof. And I'm like, oh Jennifer (25:23):That was divine timely encouragement for you. It Aaron (25:26):Was great. Sure. I, I'm so appreciative. But it was those little moments that I would do all that work and it would feel so hard and then I would realize I probably didn't do it right that I'd want to give up. Jennifer (25:38):Okay, but how did my encouragement help you push through and progress? Aaron (25:41):Well we finished. Jennifer (25:42):See, so Aaron (25:43):Your encouragement did something you was, I was trying to find someone to finish it for me and then you would be like, Aaron, you're almost done. Do you really want someone to cut? You're going to pay someone to just finish the last few steps of it. I'm so much, I don't know, clip two week. Oh it was hard actually cause I've never done anything like this before. Framing out walls and I Jennifer (26:04):Think you did a really great job. I can't see Aaron (26:06):If you saw it, you'd think I was a Jennifer (26:08):That's what I was just going to say. I can't wait to see what you build next. I'm really excited for you moving on the Aaron (26:13):List next. I mean you have a list. Jennifer (26:15):I do have a list actually on it right now. So the next lesson I learned that was kind of hard for me was don't be a distraction to your spouse and don't be demanding. So what happened was , about a week and a half after some of the chick chicken coop building was going on Aaron (26:33):I'm working hard on this thing. Jennifer (26:35):I know you were working really hard it sweating dirty. I was just standing there with gloves on going, here's another screw here. What do you need? Water? Okay, yeah I didn't do much. Aaron (26:42):Lots of time on your hands. Jennifer (26:44):So I was a little bored and I'm out there standing over by where the kids area's going to be and there's all these, it's this brush weed stuff. I don't even know what it's called. Aaron (26:53):It's just the natural whatever this vine weed thing is. And Jennifer (26:56):It's all over in the ground. It's Aaron (26:58):Like three to six inches underneath the and Jennifer (27:00):You can't just pull it out. And so my great light bulb goes on and says over the weekend, let's change things up. Instead of building the chicken coop, let's do a landscape escape. Let's go work on the yard. And so I rented for Aaron, I went out of my way to make a phone call and rented a mini skid Aaron (27:18):Steer. You know what a blessing it is that you, you just did this on your own and I didn't have to do nothing about it. Jennifer (27:23):And I asked him to rip up. It's probably less than a quarter acre. Right? Well Aaron (27:27):What happened is, what is that? I woke up in the morning and you're like, Hey by the way you need to go to pick up this thing so that we Jennifer (27:33):Can You're right. I should have asked you. That isn't the lesson but that should be part of it for sure. I was very eager to get this done and Aaron (27:39):And all I'm thinking is what, Jennifer (27:41):This is what happened when you were building the chicken coop. I kept looking over in the corner and I couldn't stand looking at it any longer. So something just got to me. But I couldn't use the skid steer. It was too big and bulky for me. And so I needed you to do it. We ripped up. It took us three full days but we Aaron (27:58):Ripped three full days. Yeah. Friday, Saturday. Well three and a half, two and a half days. It was Friday, Saturday, half day Sunday that I had to, I was digging, I was literally digging six inches beneath the one more entire surface or more of probably a, but I was almost a quarter acre of our property. Jennifer (28:17):But I was helping you cuz I was going behind you ripping up all the stuff and making a good pile for you take away. So Aaron (28:21):Thankful you were there to help me. Jennifer (28:23):I heard more than one time in your kind request to ask that I don't request anything of you until the chicken coop's done. I heard your frustration but you were very patient with me and I appreciate that. Aaron (28:38):Well, the whole time I thought to Jennifer (28:39):Myself, but I do wanna apologize. I'm sorry for this. Aaron (28:41):Why am I doing this right now? I know. And this other thing, sitting three quarters or no, I know. Half done. Barely. Barely half done. Yeah. I know. Jennifer (28:49):Lesson learned. In hindsight, I think I should have re-listened to our episode about pacing ourselves again Aaron (28:56): because that did not feel paste. Now I'm look, looking back, I'm happy that we did that also because we got rid. It's done probably 75% of those vines. Yeah. But man, the chicken coop would've been done a week sooner probably. I know, I know. So, Jennifer (29:14):Okay, well Aaron (29:16):I think this is a common thing. We get in the midst of something and f starting something is easy. But finishing that thing, Jennifer (29:23):This is true. I have a pattern in my Aaron (29:25):Mind. This is very difficult Jennifer (29:26):Of having a hard time finishing or following through. I do too. I know that about myself. Aaron (29:30):A and so the new thing feels fresh. Exciting. Yeah. Oh let's not going as it's not done yet. It's not exciting anymore. It's looks difficult. It's hard. Yeah. Let's do this other thing and this will feel better. This will be more exciting. And what all that does is it just throws a wrench in the gears. Jennifer (29:48):So don't throw a wrench in the gears. Aaron (29:50):Well for you people out there that have the ideas of the projects, not going to point the finger at who that might be in the family. Just know if you want that thing done. Jennifer (30:02):Time is everything. Aaron (30:03):Don't throw other things on top of it. Okay. Encourage 'em to do the one thing and finish it. So cool. That's just, that's one my little input if anyone wants to heat at the kit. Jennifer (30:13):Well moving on in the project, we are working really well together. I do wanna acknowledge that. Well at least I feel like when it came to the chicken coop, I did help and you did great. Was there present? Only Aaron (30:25):I wanted frustrations that there was not against you. It was just my frustration with the project. Yeah. Cuz I felt inadequate. Jennifer (30:32):But he had some help come Aaron (30:32):Out. Yeah, my dad came out, which if he wouldn't have come out, I probably wouldn't have finished the, Jennifer (30:38):Because he helped you with the most challenging part too. Aaron (30:41):The part that was Jennifer (30:42):Done. But you didn't know what to do. Aaron (30:43):Yeah. Yeah. So my dad came out and I, I've worked with my dad my whole life ever since I was a kid. Every, my dad's done everything himself. He had a motto, if someone could do it, I could do it. And he's just always, he's always What Jennifer (30:55):A lucky woman your mother was. Aaron (30:57):Yeah, my mom was that kind of person that had the list of projects and it was like before he finished she got Jennifer (31:04):A man Aaron (31:04):You could do it. And she always was adding the next project. But he came and he helped me do the roof and that was a pretty daunting part. And so that was a huge, huge blessing cuz I feel like it launched me two weeks ahead on the project. Cause if I had to do it by myself, I would take seriously if I had to do that roof by myself, it would not have been done in one day. We did it with my dad. Wow. That's cool. It would've been cool cuz we literally were doing it together. He was on one end, I was on the other putting these boards up. First of all, I wouldn't have known what I was doing. So it would taken me just a long time just to figure it out. But I'm just thankful that he came and helped me with that. It was a huge blessing. One thing that was funny that we kept saying to each other, because we would be making these, would put a board up and it would be like crooked. Jennifer (31:49):Nothing was Aaron (31:50):Square. Nothing square, nothing lined up. And we would just keep saying to ourselves, it's just a chicken coop. . Like, I'm not building a house. I'm not building something that we're going to be living in. It's a chicken coop. Chickens are living in it. Jennifer (32:01):So we can't rent it out on Airbnb. Nope. Aaron (32:03):I think we still could make some good money. There's someone out there that loves chickens enough that would live in a chicken coop. . Especially this one. All right. No, I just think this idea that just having a healthy perspective of what it is we're doing to have a good attitude about it. Jennifer (32:17):Keep expectations low. It Aaron (32:19):Really well it helped me because I was getting stressed because I was like, I'm, I'm thinking I need to be framing this. I would a house or something that needs to be totally perfect, but it's a chicken coop. Yeah. I don't need to be overwhelming myself with perfection. I just need to finish and do a decent job. And I did Jennifer (32:38):Make the chickens happy Aaron (32:39):And I'm sure they're happy. We need to get them to live in that coop still. But they're pretty happy being in the run at least. Jennifer (32:45):So here's the big question is did you prefer my help or your dad's help? Aaron (32:49):No question. I preferred all the help. Oh, so , any help was welcome. And so I was happy that you helped me cuz there's plenty of times that I couldn't have done it without you either. Aw see Jennifer (33:02):That Aaron (33:02):Sounds good to hear. I was super blessed that my dad came too cuz I don't think I would've been able to do the roof. I probably could have done it by myself, but it would've been not easy. Jennifer (33:11):So we finished the coop, which is amazing and awesome. And offer plate that. I'll Aaron (33:15):99%. There's a few things I need to do Jennifer (33:18):On it. Fun things like the run? Aaron (33:20):No. Well yeah, that's a part of it. The fun stuff. You wanna talk about toys for the chickens? People are probably toys for the chickens. Jennifer (33:27):They're chickens? No. Like a dust bath area? Aaron (33:29):No. There's like some things I need to do to seal it up a little bit better but oh it's not the other world. Okay, I'll figure that out later. Jennifer (33:36):Cool. Well how do you like it? Aaron (33:38):I think it looks really good. I was just, Jennifer (33:40):You drove Aaron (33:40):Up tonight, I just told you, I was like babe, I was just driving up and I saw the coop through the trees and it really looks like it fits with the house. Jennifer (33:47):You did a really good job. It looks Aaron (33:49):Good. It does fit. You would never know that. Jennifer (33:50):And the little ladies are Aaron (33:51):Happy. Scrapped it together with scrap wood. So Jennifer (33:52):They're laying eggs already for us and the kids. I can't tell you how in love they are with just the idea of going out there to get the Aaron (33:59):Eggs. They're like, mom, this one's still warm. And we're like, Jennifer (34:01):Thanks. That's awesome. Well actually made scrambled eggs with them. They taste really good. Aaron (34:06):They are really good eggs. One of the chickens keeps laying these double yolk eggs. The only eggs she lays is double yolk eggs. They're these, they're twice the size of the rest them. I wonder Jennifer (34:15):If that means something. Aaron (34:16):I don't know. But I'm pretty stuck. I feel Jennifer (34:17):Like we have so much to learn about chickens, Aaron (34:20):But we have them and they got a place to live. Winning currently. Jennifer (34:24):So why they've heard the story here we are wrapping things up. Why is it good to do hard things together in marriage? What Aaron (34:31):Does this have to do with marriage? Yeah, Jennifer (34:32):Because it's a marriage podcast. We can't just talk about chickens, guys. Well Aaron (34:38):Doing projects, it gives you the opportunity to grow and doing these things. This was a way bigger than I thought it was going to be, but we did it. And that feels good at it forces us. Jennifer (34:50):Look at what we did to communicate. Aaron (34:52):We had to communicate a Jennifer (34:52):Lot to be a team to hand each other things and also participate. Aaron (34:57):Prioritization and timing of things. We had to put time to it. So we had to sacrifice time for other things. Jennifer (35:05):I like being with you Aaron (35:06):While we were out there. It was a lot of family time cuz we had to have the kids out there with us and it wasn't like, we can just go do something else. We were like, well we gotta finish this chicken coop. We're here today. We're Jennifer (35:16):Also, and the kids got to help on it. We also get to see each other's abilities. I got to see that you were capable of doing something like this. You Aaron (35:22):Do. Seeing me nail wood together Jennifer (35:25):And love I do. I think it's resourceful and Aaron (35:26):Cutting wood with a saw. It's Jennifer (35:28):Cool. I like it. We get to encourage each other along the way and that feels good. Aaron (35:35):I think a big thing that happens, we talked about this a little bit with what our kids see us doing and I think there's a huge value in our children watching us do these things. And also being invited into them like hey, you can come. And a lot of our time that our kids are just playing with a hammer and nails while we were working, Jennifer (35:54):Stealing our tools. Aaron (35:56):Does anyone have my hammer . And why would Redn go get it? Because they just wanna do that stuff. I remember being a kid, I did, I wanted to do the same thing. So they Jennifer (36:04):Have different ideas, Aaron (36:06):Loving them, watching us do this hard thing, build this thing and then at the end of the day be like, wow, look what we did. Yeah. Because I'm sure they feel like they're a part of it. I think that's a huge benefit to our children. Totally. Jennifer (36:20):I think also them seeing us do something start to finish and for us it brings that sense of accomplishment. We did that together. Aaron (36:27):They're not just giving up in the Jennifer (36:28):Middle. It gives us courage to do other things together and to say yes to them when they come and accepting hard things for the good that comes out of them. Just having chickens, we're receiving eggs. That's good Aaron (36:40):And fun and fun and responsibility and building something that protects them and takes care of them and it's ours. I also think because there were times in the middle of it that I did want to quit and I'm sure my kids heard me say that, but then not quitting. Yeah. It's cuz that what that shows our kids is so those feelings do arise. Jennifer (37:00):So it's an opportunity that tests our hearts and our stamina for when things get tough. And that to me is refinement. Aaron (37:07):And it's something our kids are growing in and learning. They're like, man, I don't want to clean up after myself or I don't want to finish this thing. But then seeing us follow through is something that we also don't want to finish. It teaches them that they can too. Yeah. Jennifer (37:24):Do you feel like doing things together with me gives our marriage a sense of purpose, even though it's not necessarily kingdom work or ministry, it's still Aaron (37:32):Purposeful. Well I, I'd call it kingdom work and ministry work. I wouldn't put this on probably top of the list, but a part of our kingdom work, and we mentioned this in a lot of our podcasts, is our ministry to our children. Them watching us work together, create things, build things, work hard, finish projects. Even when we want to quit is ministry to them. It's showing them that's true. How to do the same thing. Not with a chicken coop, but with anything. Starting a business, being married, they see us go through hard times and we don't give up. They see us struggle and then we thrive. And this coop is a coop. But to them and to us, it's just a part of our life that shows them how to be grown up and how to be faithful and how to continue on and how to do things that are hard. Jennifer (38:24):One of my favorite things about working together with you is that we're not doing it alone. There are times that we have a alone time that a hobby or something that we enjoy doing alone. But when we work together and we need help and we are doing something hard, we're there together. And we're not just isolated and feeling discouraged because we're alone. We're doing it together. And I appreciate that about marriage and its purpose that it serves there. Aaron (38:47):So we got some scripture here that just kind of ties into some of these concepts. Why don't you read the first Jennifer (38:52):One, the first one's, Colossians 3 23, whatever you do, work hardily as for the Lord and not for men. So basically, no matter what we choose to do or work on, if we have a posture of our hearts to do it for the Lord, that's a good Aaron (39:07):Thing. And that's, what Jennifer (39:08):Else does it mean? What Aaron (39:10):It means? Everything. Whatever it says. Whatever you do. So if I'm going to be putting my hand to writing a book as we're doing right now, if I'm going to be putting my hand to making a chicken coop, building a home, raising my children, homeschooling, whatever, homeschooling, whatever our work is, whatever we put our hands to, he wants us to work hardly. It reminds me, Anna, we brought this up in several, several seasons ago about the workers at the temple and this desire that it was put in them and also the creativity and the skill to create something beautiful for God. But that's what we do in life. Doesn't necessarily mean it's a piece of art, Jennifer (39:47):But we get to express ourselves through our work. Aaron (39:50):The attitude we have is how we paint that beauty. That's really cool. Jennifer (39:53):I like Aaron (39:54):That. So whatever we do, we're doing it Jennifer (39:56):For the Lord. And what benefit does that have to our marriage when we have that perspective or posture? Aaron (40:02):Well, if I would've had it more often, I probably would've had a better attitude at most sometimes when I was doing it to Jennifer (40:08):Be more enjoyable. Aaron (40:09):And I mean enjoy the process more, enjoy just work. This is hard and I'm enjoying it. It's good to work hard and do hard things. So I think it's beneficial to just recognize that the things we do are more than what the thing is. They're more, does Jennifer (40:31):That make sense? And our attitude towards it influences or impacts kind of the atmosphere of mm-hmm. What you're Aaron (40:39):Sprinting. Yeah, I was watching, which is a big deal. (40:43):So the next verse is Galatians six, nine and it says, let us not grow weary of doing good for induced season. We will reap if we do not give up. So what's beautiful about that is in this thing, there were times that I felt like giving up like I've mentioned, but it's good not to give up. It's good to complete something that you start to dedicate the energy and the efforts and to show, hey, I'm going to finish this thing. I began just like God does in us. He finishes the work, he begins in us. Jennifer (41:23):When I heard you read that verse, something that came up into my mind is sometimes when you're working together with your spouse and you don't agree on a certain part of the project, sometimes you let pride frustrate you or offenses build up. And so when I hear, don't let us grow weary of doing good, I'm thinking in the marriage itself, it doesn't matter what you're doing together, but how is your marriage being maintained while you're doing those things? And don't grow weary of doing good there. Just for the sake of your perspective of how the project should Aaron (41:53):Result. Well a good example I was at various times, discouraged, bad attitude, frustrated. It was hard cuz there I would get and then I would be, I'll get to a problem with this building and I'm like, I literally dunno what to do cuz I've never done this before. I don't have the tool for it. Whatever it was, you could have gone grown weary in encouraging me and could have got just fed up with me and said, fine, don't finish it. But you didn't. You kept encouraging me, which was a good thing. Yeah. Loving me, reminding me that it's a good thing. Reminding me that it's okay. Also reminding me that like, Hey, why don't you take a break if you can't figure it out, it's okay. Hey Jennifer (42:31):Go do some landscape. Aaron (42:33):Let's take a break and do something else for three days. Jennifer (42:34):Something else that frustrates you. Aaron (42:36):But that's a part of that idea of not growing where and doing good to the others. So in me and how I speak to my children about the project, reminding 'em like, Hey this is a good thing. Hey this is an exciting thing. What Jennifer (42:49):You can't say if you don't believe Aaron (42:51):You gotta believe it. Yeah. It's Jennifer (42:52):Good. Right. So is there a time one should quit? Is that a good question to ask or, Aaron (42:58):Yeah. When we were discussing this tonight, I brought this up cuz I think it would be wrong for us to say, Hey, never give up on a project you started. I think there's probably some time that we've endeavored in something and we've actually done this ourselves. There's been projects we've pursued that in the midst of it, we realized this isn't aligned with where we want to go. This isn't healthy, Jennifer (43:20):Conducive, Aaron (43:21):Healthy, our marriage, it's a healthy firm marriage. It's not conducive to our ministry. And we have to make the hard decision of like, hey, we're going to pull the plug. And so I would say Jennifer (43:32):Communicate, communicate, communicate. Aaron (43:34):Yeah. And also be discerning and prayerful and Jennifer (43:37):Yields the spirit. . Because he will tell you Aaron (43:40):And walk in wisdom. Jennifer (43:41):So the thing that we're basically saying here, don't give up on each other. Aaron (43:46):Yeah, that's true. Don't. Don't go wearing doing the good thing. The good thing. That doesn't mean that the thing you're doing is good . Right. Jennifer (43:53):Which you might have different opinions about. Aaron (43:55):Right. Because there could be something that we endeavor to work on that could actually be unhealthy or unwise. Yeah. Or financially destructive. Yeah, that's true. That's a big deal. So good points. I think we're just, we want to give that rounded out view that we should be aware of is the thing we're doing. Something that we should be pursuing. And I actually genuinely thought that several times with this chicken. I was like, we could just get rid of the chickens. This would be so much easier. Jennifer (44:24):The last verse, Aaron (44:24):We wanna, I'm glad we have the chickens. I love chickens. Jennifer (44:27):The last thing I wanna share, the last verse we wanna share is Proverbs 1423. It says, in all toil there is profit, but mere talk tends only to poverty. And what stood out to me about this is that there's benefit to marriage when we help each other accomplish desired tasks. So you've got to-do lists, I've got to-do lists. We work together, we mm-hmm chomp at 'em and boom, we're happy, we're satisfied. Aaron (44:50):We talk about this on marriage after God a lot actually about this idea of coming together and using our energies and our powers Jennifer (44:56):And our talents. Combining resources. Yeah. Everything. Aaron (44:59):And Jennifer (44:59):Was that captain Aaron (45:00):Planet, I've almost said it and hate us and moving that ball forward is much more powerful than both of us trying to tug at each other and do our own thing. Jennifer (45:10):Now here's the warning and I'm sure we can all raise our hand and say we've done it. So this is just for everyone when we just say, yeah, we're going to do that. Yeah, I'm going to help you with that. Yeah. Would that Aaron (45:21):Be nice if we, okay, Jennifer (45:23):But don't follow through with it. It causes a lack of trust with words and a frustration to build up that nothing's getting done because we've become talkers and not doers. Right? Am I wrong here? Aaron (45:35):Well if it's something that's worth doing, then it's worth not just talking about it should be done. Jennifer (45:42):And if there's something that someone's ask your spouse is asking you and you don't think that it's a priority or you don't think it should be done, then you need to say that too. You can't just say Yeah honey, because that's destructive if you don't intend to do it or if you do intend to do it. But not right now. Aaron (45:58):If I say I'm going to fix that thing, it's going to be done in the next six months. So just know that Jennifer (46:04):As long as you communicate that there's six months that I'm waiting, then we're good. But if you don't communicate that part, it becomes hard Aaron (46:11):Six. Jennifer (46:12):I think everybody agrees right now for sure. Everybody's experienced. The frustration of hearing someone say, yeah, we'll do that thing and then it not comes. So that's all I'm saying is let's be encouraging to one another by being careful of our words. Aaron (46:25):So I think that's important. I think the point is, is not being just talkers but doers. Yeah. So we now have a chicken coop cuz we did it. Did Jennifer (46:31):It do okay. So is there a thing you listening, this is not for Aaron and I, our to-do list is completely done now. Aaron (46:39):It's not. It's so funny that you said that. Jennifer (46:42):Okay. Is there anything in your marriage or Aaron (46:45):I'm, I'm putting that at the refrigerator. What to-do list. We're done is done. Jennifer (46:49):So is there anything in your marriage, anything on your to-do list that feels hard that you've been avoiding that probably should be done, that that should be done? Or is a priority that we can encourage you to go take the next step towards it? Even if it's just a conversation of, Hey, should we do this? Aaron (47:04):Hey we, there's been a handful of books I've read on habits and productivity and they all say something, grace to say, do the hard thing first. This is a big deal because often we push the hard thing off until last, but we don't ever get to that thing. Jennifer (47:21):I just had a really random example pop in my head and it's probably not a very great one, but I think people will understand. Okay, so I was watching a movie and it had ads playing on Amazon, and the first ad started out at 130 seconds and I was like, bummer. The second ad was like 170 something seconds, and I was like longer, and I was like, this is not, if it keeps increasing, the third one was like 30 seconds, and it kept going in small increments back up, but it didn't feel like anything because as long as I avoided that hundred and whatever it was, I was okay. Does Aaron (48:00):That make sense? Yeah. I think Pandora or someone, another one of these apps has a, it says, listen ad free. If you click and watch this first ad and the ad is three minutes longer, and Jennifer (48:14):You're like, oh, are you kidding me? But all it is, but if you were, do that ads broken up, right? Aaron (48:18):If you would, yeah, if you were to do that, you would get the whole thing. You would have no more ads for the rest of the time. But that's the kind of idea. It's Jennifer (48:24):Like a psychological thing. Aaron (48:25):Do that hard thing up front because Jennifer (48:26):Then everything else feels easy. Aaron (48:28):Everything else will fit. Jennifer (48:29):Sorry for wasting your time with that one. I know Aaron (48:31):, everyone's like, oh, Jen. Jennifer (48:33):Okay, moving on. Oh, Jen. Anyways, guys, we just wanna encourage you to take that next step towards whatever that hard thing is in your life and when the opportunity comes and you can say yes to say yes to it, obviously in wisdom, and consider the opportunity you have to work together beside your spouse to do something Aaron (48:51):Hard. Or most importantly, if your husband says, no, we shouldn't do that thing, maybe you should just not do it. There might be, it might avoid some stress Jennifer (49:00):And some tension. Okay? Aaron (49:02):Yeah. But if you're going to do it, I think you should do it with a good heart. Jennifer (49:05):All right? Right. Moving on. Okay. Weekly challenge, by the way, we hope you guys enjoyed that episode. . Aaron (49:12):So many people are going to be building cheese shoes. Jennifer (49:14):Don't get chickens. So last week's challenge was to do something fun, quirky, silly, cranky. Aaron (49:20):Jennifer just shot me in the face with a silly string. Jennifer (49:22):I tried, he Aaron (49:23):Caught me. I saw her coming Jennifer (49:24):Though. He caught me in the reflection so I didn't have to do it again. Some of the time. Hopefully you guys are enjoying these challenges and this week's challenge is to write a letter of affirmation and share it with each other. So Aaron, you must write me a letter of affirmation and I'll do the same to you. Yes, dear. Thank you. I wanted to share some encouraging phrases, phrases of affirmation for those of you who might need a jumpstart of encouragement. I like it when you, I love your, I appreciate it When you, I value your, I hope we, I envision, I can't wait to, Aaron (50:03):So all you gotta do is answer all those questions. Jennifer (50:05):I mean, if you want to do that, Aaron, Aaron (50:07):You got a letter. This is exactly what I'm going to do. You're going to get one of each of those. Jennifer (50:12):All right. Why don't you close this out with the prayer. Aaron (50:14):Dear Lord, thank you for equipping us with strength and diligence to work together in marriage to do good works. Thank you for helping us to follow through with projects and do the hard things. We pray we continue to walk beside each other to do good work, kingdom work, and work that benefits our lives along the way. As we encounter tensions or misunderstandings, please fill us with the wisdom and self-control and our responses toward each other. We pray we would not let our pride get in the way of enjoying the process of doing hard things together. We also ask your Holy Spirit to remind us of the truth of your word. When we feel discouraged or disappointed, we pray we would not be a distraction to each other, but rather an encouragement to finishing Shing strong. Please help us to have lots of fun as we work side by side in any endeavor we pursue. In Jesus' name, amen. Jennifer (51:01):Thank you for joining us for another episode of the Marriage After God podcast. If Aaron (51:04):You found today's episode fun and encouraging, please take a moment to share it on social media or in an email to some of your married friends. Jennifer (51:10):Also, would you please take a moment and leave us a review, reviews help to spread the word about our podcast? Aaron (51:15):Be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode, and you can always check out more of our resources@marriageaftergod.com. Jennifer (51:20):You can follow us on social media from more marriage encouragement on Facebook and Instagram at Marriage after God at Husband Revolution, and at Unveiled Wife. Aaron (51:29):We hope you have an incredible week and look forward to sharing more with you next week on The Marriage After God Podcast.     Connect With UsInstagram | @marriageaftergodInstagram | @unveiledwifeInstagram | @husbandrevolutionCheck out our marriage resources!SponsorsGet our new book The Marriage Gift - 365 prayers for your marriage!Our Sponsors:* Check out Mr. Pen and use my code MAG10 for a great deal: https://mrpen.comSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/marriage-after-god-biblical-advice-practical-tips-and-inspiring-/donations

This episode is brought to you by our 31 prayers for my son and daughter devotionals.Click here to get "31 Prayers For My Son"Click here to get "31 Prayers For My Daughter"-----2 Corinthians 5:17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.Ephesians 5:8 for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of lightRomans 12:2Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfectAre we choosing to hold onto ways of being because of the past? Often these things can be subconscious, but for the believer, eventually, God will work these things to the surface.We tend to believe we see our spouse and their faults and sins so clearly but have such a hard time identifying areas we need to repent of and mature in.Once you recognize something in you that needs to be cleaned out, transformed. What are actionable steps to do next? Humble yourself to hear and receive the truthConfess it and acknowledge how it is could be tripping you upPray and ask God to sculpt youRequest accountability - ask your spouse or friends for help when they see it in you to call it out2 Corinthians 3:17-18[Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.Weekly Challenge:Take each other by surprise. Sweet or sneaky. Prank, scare, or silly. A friend of mine surprised her husband over the weekend and cleaned the garage and got him a toolbox to organize everything Do something for your spouse they haven't had time for - clean out the car or garage, organize a closet, paint that dresser, shred those papers, clean out the fridge, do the lawns. PRAYERDear Lord, Thank You for the way Your truth transforms our lives. Thank you for not giving up on us. Our hearts ache over the sin in our lives that cost you everything. We pray we would honor you by acknowledging and confessing our sin. We pray we would not hold onto anything that we shouldn’t. If we are hoarding anything from our past that is having a negative effect on us we pray we would be diligent and courageous to take that step to reconcile with you and restore any parts of our marriage we broke down because of things we hold onto or ways we believed about ourselves or each other. We pray we would be willing to surrender to you every day. In Jesus’ name AMEN! READ TRANSCRIPTJennifer (00:09):Hi, and welcome to the Marriage After God podcast. Aaron (00:12):We're your hosts Aaron Jennifer Smith. We Jennifer (00:14):Have been married 15 years and have five sweet children who are growing up way too fast. Aaron (00:18):We love God and we love marriage Jennifer (00:20):And we love to be honest about it Aaron (00:21):All. Marriage is not always a walk in the park, but we do believe it has a powerful purpose. So Jennifer (00:26):Our goal here is to open up the conversation to talk about our faith and our marriage, Aaron (00:30):Especially in light of the gospel. Jennifer (00:32):We certainly don't have all the answers, but if you stick around, we may just make you Aaron (00:35):Laugh. But our hope is to encourage you to chase boldly after God's purpose for your life together. Jennifer (00:39):This is after God. Aaron (00:47):Ready, set, go. Jennifer (00:49):Welcome back to another episode of Marriage After God. I'm your host, Jennifer Smith. Aaron (00:54):I'm Aaron Smith. Jennifer (00:55):No, I said I'm your host. I was kidding. Oh, Aaron (00:57):Aaron's here too. We are. It's we. Jennifer (01:00):I know, but you let me do the intro so Aaron (01:02):You can change however you want. Jennifer (01:05):Well seriously, welcome back. Thank you for being here today. We hope that today's episode blesses you and encourages you. And yeah, Aaron (01:13):What's today's episode about? Jennifer (01:15):Today we are going to Aaron (01:18):, Jennifer (01:20):We're going to discuss how our past AKA baggage, so people say it's nevermind. Aaron (01:27):. What do people say? I dunno. You got baggage. Jennifer (01:30):How it may be affecting your present. Aaron (01:33):Right. So we're going to be talking about those past things that kind of crept into our present. Nows. Jennifer (01:41):Okay. Aaron (01:41):We should just move on. Okay. Jennifer (01:44):Sponsor is Aaron (01:45):. Jennifer (01:46):Oh, Aaron (01:47):Can you do? The sponsor Jennifer (01:49):Episode is brought to you by our 31 prayers for my son and daughter devotionals next to our marriage. Our children are the greatest ministry that we have been given. They truly are a gift from God and he desires us to not only take care of their physical needs, but also their emotional and spiritual ones. And so Aaron and I created these devotionals for all parents to be able to pray for their son and daughter or sons and daughters. And so yeah, we just wanted to encourage you guys to build a daily habit of praying for our little ones. Praying for your little ones. Aaron (02:21):After this episode, please pick up your copy and begin a lifelong journey of interceding for your children. You can get yours today@amazon.com or shop dot marriage after god.com. Jennifer (02:33):So I'm going to set up the scene here as we intro into today's topic. I don't know if you guys remember when I told you we signed up for CC this year. It's called Classical Conversations and once a week you go to community day, which is just, I don't know why I feel like I'm stuttAarong or something. It's community day and we get to meet up with our class and our friends and we go through what we're learning about, which is really fun. But every day, every time when we come back home, I get out of the car and I'm telling the kids, you know what we're doing the rest of the day. And they kind of just fly. They're like, Aaron (03:13):They're gone and everything gets dumped at the front door. Jennifer (03:16):Well, half of it at least. And so the other half is still stuck in the car in the van. Aaron (03:20):That's also Jennifer (03:20):True. And they're overflowing with their schoolwork or Ziploc baggies or whatever they had that day. So yeah, like Aaron said, the others are just left in front of the doorway to trip over or be in my way. So that's kind of just how it's been every Wednesday working on things. This is our first year actually having backpacks and there's five of 'em. And so the kids are just like, we're homeschooled. We don't know what to do with backpacks. I dunno. Aaron (03:48):Well they don't have a place to put. Yeah. But also we have this thing in our home where every flat surface is stuff gets put stuff, it's a place to put stuff on. Jennifer (03:56):What's really funny about that is I spent all day trying to clean off countertops and the laundry room has been kind of an eyesore for me cuz it sits behind the kitchen and we've just been stockpiling a bunch of stuff back there that needs to go out to the garage or be put away. And so today I was like, I'm going to do this. And so I get it all clean, I wipe it down, I'm so happy. The laundry room's looking sparkly clean. And then we had to clean out the van and there was bike helmets and stuff from Home Depot and I'm like four Aaron (04:25):Months of Jennifer (04:25):Clothes. So I'm taking all this stuff out and I'm realizing I'm just putting it on the laundry counter and I'm mad at myself Aaron (04:32):Flat surface. Why am I doing this? It's right there. We do it. Yeah. Jennifer (04:35):It's not my kids' fault. their backpack situation. It's totally mine. Aaron (04:39):Maybe it's all that baggage. Yeah. Jennifer (04:41):Well why ? Thank you. I brought this up for a reason. I was painting a picture for you guys. So the point is that it's a process of learning and then the need is that ev by every Wednesday we need the backpacks cleaned out and ready to go and prepared for the following week. Aaron (05:03):So it could be used again. So Jennifer (05:05):It could be used again the right way. Aaron (05:06):Yeah, the right way. Jennifer (05:08):Anyways, I'll move on. Today we want to find those bags in our lives that have been left to collect dust or the ones that we kind of leave right there to consistently trip us up and be in our way. And we want to encourage you to take an intentional moment to sift through it and clean it out and put it away, Aaron (05:24):Or at minimum at least let the Holy Spirit point out stuff to us that we've been holding onto and that we were, you actually were just talking about this book you're reading and this idea of going on family hikes. Yeah. And they were discussing having the kids have a backpack and you were saying, well, Jennifer (05:43):I was laughing because as I'm reading it, she's put a couple small snacks in there, which is a great idea. Aaron (05:48):I know we put water Jennifer (05:49):Bottles in. Yeah. I'm like, no, I'm only bringing three backpacks, not five or seven. And I load 'em up and then they're two heavy Aaron (05:55):Parts and we always end up, we're carrying all the Jennifer (05:57):Backpacks. Yeah. I've got two kids and five Aaron (05:59):Members. The backpack, the baggage, the reason that term is used is because it's things that we carry with us Jennifer (06:07):And weigh us down and make things Aaron (06:09):Hard. And sometimes we don't even know those things are there. And so hopefully in this episode, Jennifer (06:14):But other times it's things that we don't wanna let go Aaron (06:16):Of. Yeah. We're like hoarders of our past stuff. So hopefully, first of all, you're encouraged as always. That's what we want to also make you laugh a little bit. But are we just going to be allow the Holy Spirit to make us aware and open our eyes and point things out to us for the purpose of being better, growing, mature, maturing being free from those things. So mm-hmm What the zips about? Jennifer (06:48):So I think the first thing that needs to happen in order for anyone to be able to start unloading the past or being able to move forward from it is to recognize that we're multifaceted creatures complex. Well, we're a little bit complex. Aaron (07:05):I think we oversimplify ourselves and we think, oh, this is who I am. And we forget that there's a plethora of variables in our life that affect us. And so not only do we have our flesh, our biology, how our brain works, the things that we like, the things that hurt us and our pain thresholds and all these things about our biology, but we also have a heart. Or in other words our will like things that we desire, things that we want ways of thinking. We also have our spirit, which is our eternal identity. We're eternal creatures. And all of those things can and are affected in by many different things. This whole idea of nature and nurture, what was it your environment or was it your D n a or both outside influences and situations as well as personal choices and beliefs, things that, all of these things. And each one of us can just look at the whole of our life, how we were raised, relationships, we've had ways of thinking things. Things that we had no control of that have happened to us and how those things have affected us and have crept into our today and how we respond and act and think. And so I think at least for me, it's hard sometimes to recognize certain things about myself to see ourselves objectively. Jennifer (08:37):But you say it's hard for me, I'm resistant , like I'm not going to Aaron (08:40):Look. But it's also hard, it's even when it's stuff's presented like wait a minute, that's not real. But things that exist. And so I think it'd be foolish for us to continue in life and just believe that we are who we are and that's it. Jennifer (09:01):Well it's a process that needs to be learned, just like how I was talking about our kids. They need to be told by someone, Hey go put your backpack away cuz they don't know the consequence yet of tripping over a backpack or how mom feels when it's stuck in the car. Aaron (09:15):Or the worst one of them getting in a bad habit their whole life. Jennifer (09:18): bad habit, their not putting stuff away, not being prepared or ready for the next one. So, so just, they need the direction and the guidance and the know-how. Sometimes we maybe always we need someone telling us, Hey, maybe you should do this. So that's what we are here for today. Hey, so we're going to tell you, hey, maybe you should do this. Aaron (09:39):And there's a term that we've used throughout our marriage, this idea of self-awareness. Yeah, it's something that we should get better at and just grow in. And it's not just a self-awareness that we kind of only look from our own eyes, but we look through God's eyes, we look through his word and we say, okay, who are we? And that's the beauty of God's word, is that it is always a true reflection of us, of who we are without Christ and of who we are with him. Jennifer (10:12):That's good. Explain that real quick. Aaron (10:14):Well we can have a self-evaluation and we look at ourselves, no, who I am is who I am. And you can't say nothing about it. But all that is is just saying, this is my view, my position. Jennifer (10:26):When you have a cute offer on and you look in the mirror and you're like, man, I look good today, but you never turned around to see, Aaron (10:30):Yeah, you're Jennifer (10:31):Dresses, it's going on back there, Aaron (10:33):Mullet. It's got mullet back there. But when we look at the word, it's not it. It's not going to take into account how you see you, but it will tell you how you see you. And whether that's right or wrong, but what it's going to, what it really is, what the word of God is doing is it's telling us who we are and that it either way, whether we're with Christ or not, it's saying, oh here's, here's who you are without Christ. Here's who you are with Christ and who Christ is making you to be. And so second Corinthians, just like a handful of verses I want to just throw out here, just kind of start this conversation off. Cuz if we don't believe these things then it doesn't matter what we say today, you're just going to always remain where you're at cuz that's what you believe. But if we believe these things, then a whole new world gets opened up for us and there's some awesome things. Jennifer (11:26):So you're about to hold up a mirror. Aaron (11:28):Yeah. Here's the mirror, second Corinthians five 17. This is who we are in Christ. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The oldest passed away, behold the new has come. This is a hard verse for a lot of believers to we read it, we're like, yeah, that sounds great. But I personally and I, I'm sure other people have felt this way on many different things because of different ways of being different sin in my life. I look at this, I'm like, that sounds great, but not for me because it doesn't seem to be working for me. Jennifer (12:01):In which times that you Aaron (12:03):Couldn't Jennifer (12:03):Change, couldn't Aaron (12:04):Change anything, there's a sin I couldn't overcome. There a way of being that wouldn't be transformed. And I would say, well, where's that new creation? The reality is this is true. I was just believing the lie that I couldn't be, that I'm not a new creation. And so the reality for every believer who is in Christ, they are a new creation. That is their current status, new creation. And the old has passed away and the new has come. So that's the truth. Ephesians five, eight, for one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord, walk as children of the light. Also true currently, Romans 12, two, do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind. That by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. So we have these two verses that are like, this is your current status. And then you have this third verse that is like, here's how your current status, but also your current operation be transformed by the renewal of your mind. Jennifer (13:11):And I just wanna encourage you guys sending this verse about being transformed by the renewal of your mind is not like a one time look. Your mind is transformed more. So it's a continual process of being transformed when you're in the word daily and you're abiding in the word, it's transforming you. And I think sometimes we get caught up as Christians, especially those of us who have been Christians for a long time. We think, oh, I was transformed. And then we wrestle and we get confused and we get frustrated over things not changing. But how long has it been since we've been actively in the word? Aaron (13:53):And it's also a lifelong transformation. I love about this verse right here in Romans 12, two, there's this contrast of being conformed versus being transformed. Conformed is, if you imagine setting play-Doh into a mold, you just set it on top and it's slowly just forms to the mold. It's very passive. This is what happens when we do not actively believe what the word says. We just solely conform to the world and its standards. But being transformed, that's an active thing that Christ does through his word, by that renewal of our minds. So when we read his word, our minds actually change and we change with it. So when our minds change, our lives change, we are being transformed. So Jennifer (14:41):Which that is not a passive thing, that's it's not Aaron (14:43):Passive at all. Active thing. Yeah, it's very active. And then it says by testing you may a certain. So all of those things about transformation are very active things. Transformation, renewal, testing, all good things. So all this to say is that part of this new creation that we are is that we're being changed, transformed, renewed every day if we like God, if we allow his word to transform us and renew our minds. And so that's where we're moving forward in this conversation is, hey, let's let God's word reveal things to us. Let's let his spirit point out to us areas that he desires to change in us. The Bible calls it the circumcision of Christ, him coming into our lives and cutting away dead flesh and transforming us. Jennifer (15:30):One of the reasons we wanted to share this specific topic with you guys today, the why is this important is we think it's worth exploring our hearts to see if there's anything that has been in there for a while, something that's been affecting us, or maybe something that gets triggered when certain things happen and we feel a certain way because marriage is full of consistent interactions with one another. , right. We're Aaron (15:58):Cons. Millions of, yeah. Jennifer (15:59):Yeah. Little ways and big ways. So because this happens on the daily all the time, it's important to know what comes out of us and is it coming from somewhere in the past? Is it coming from a more recent past and how is it motivating our reactions and responses? Aaron (16:20):I can't remember the scripture reference, but it's out of the overflow of the heart. The mouth speaks and what's in our hearts and things come out of us. And Jesus even says this, he says, it's not what goes into the stomach that defiles a man, but what comes out of him. Jennifer (16:39):And we were talking about the difference between reactions and responses. And I mean, we talk about our responses to each other all the time. Because if I say something in a way that hurts you, we're talking about it. If you do it, we're talking about it. And so it's just a thing that marriage has to do. And so you said this, you explained it really good, you said a response is intentional and thoughtful, it's self controlled. Aaron (17:06):And a reaction is just prompt. We acting in our flesh based off of our dispositions. And Jennifer (17:14):So those things in the baggage area, are going to come out in a reaction. Aaron (17:23):But if we are more thoughtful, more self-aware, just walking in, keeping step of the spirit, we can learn and practice and grow and being able to respond thoughtfully to all circumstances in life. Not just our spouse, not just our kids. But that's what I wanna be. Be a person that learns to respond rather than just react. Right. Jennifer (17:47):Okay. So let's talk about some of these things that we would find in our bags, in our backpacks. Aaron (17:53):Yeah, let's talk about all yours. No. Oh Jennifer (17:55):Kidding. My list is a little longer than S. No, no. Well this is kind of Aaron (17:59):Just like I have them too. This Jennifer (18:00):Is mixed of ours, but also general. Aaron (18:03):And sometimes as were, when we were writing our notes are these things can be very subtle and actually hard to identify sometimes. But I am praying that God does reveal these things in me. So I have some too. For sure. I imagine that probably the most commonplace where we have stored up issues, baggage, stuff that we've drugged from the past or just Jennifer (18:26):Held onto to Aaron (18:26):Oh yeah. And held onto it is past hurts in relationships with our spouse, with our friends, parents probably parents is a big one. And so huge influence whether they were around or not. Both can have profound influence on our life and effect in the kind of people we are and how we react in situations. And these come in many different forms. Betrayal, which is a big, big one. When someone we love betrays us, betrays our trusts broken Jennifer (19:00):Trust, that's Aaron (19:01):A huge one. Fights that we've had either physical or emotional or verbal. These types of things that we've had between people that mean a lot to us issues with our mother, father of both that has an effect on us and how we move forward in life. And the kinds way we view our spouse and the way we view our children and the way we respond in certain C circumstances, like you said, use the word trigger. There's lots of things that trigger us and we might respond based off of those old hurts. Jennifer (19:35):So that's a really good summary of just relationships. Like relationships affect us. For others it could be P T S D, maybe it's guilt or regret from choices previously made bad habits that kind of just stuck with you, Aaron (19:52):Right? They just kept going Jennifer (19:55):Debts. And also a huge one is addiction. Aaron (20:00):These could be a lot of these things. I brought addiction into our marriage and I've talked about that a lot. Debt also things that actually shaped quite a bit of the first parts of our marriage, like years. So those all have things. So don't, some of these other things I may not personally deal with and you may not, but there are people that do. But all of these things, all of these different triggers, all of these different types of baggage that we could bring in. God redeems and he works through and he's patient with us and desires to grow us and change us. So another one is and I feel like you've struggled with this a lot just throughout the years and it's something that God's totally been working in you and slowly is bringing to the surface. But inner criticisms, Jennifer (20:52):Judging myself and being my worst critic, Aaron (20:59):Those things, that way of thinking, it comes from when you were younger and it gets amplified by certain things and built on. And if they're not dealt with, then that's going to always be viewing yourself from that lens. Jennifer (21:16):For sure. I can see that. And when I let those types of thoughts consume me, I do get irritated. And if I'm bothered by one thing already, then there's an interaction with us. I just, I'm stuck there. That's what it feels like. Aaron (21:33):Well and that stuck feeling that in inadequacy or that criticism of yourself sometimes manifests in a way of failure to continue on not wanting to give up, wanting to Jennifer (21:47):Feeling paralyzed per that's a thing emotionally. Yeah. Paralyzed, Aaron (21:51):Which affects us, like you said, and affects you and it affects your relationship with the Lord and your kids and even friends some other, another area that baggage manifests in fears. Jennifer (22:07):Fears from actual circumstances that have happened to people that who have gotten hurt or kind of doing that whole worst case scenario type thing. Aaron (22:19):Yeah. I've known people that they respond certain ways when they see si situations that mimic something that bad that happened to a friend or a family member. And so there's this fear that ends up being a controlling factor in their way of thinking and responding and being Jennifer (22:41):Control. That's a big one. Yeah. Other ones are just doubts or insecurities from way back in childhood that become a trigger for anxiety. I know something that I've struggled with is things lies that I've believed about myself. And in the present, when I experience stress, those things get affirmed. Cuz I remember, oh see yeah, I'm bad at this or I can't think of anything in this particular moment, but I Aaron (23:12):Know that, no, it's almost like self-fulfilling prophecy. Like, oh look, I mess up in this area again. I, oh, I couldn't get this bedroom clean or this or I, in the way I communicated to my friend, oh look what I did again. Yeah. Who I am rather than Which Jennifer (23:28):You brought up that verse about being a new creation and that's what makes it hard to believe that when you're stuck believing the lies that Yeah, Aaron (23:35):Because look what I did again. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well and that's a very common thing that we fall into is believing that because we maybe succumb to a pattern a way of being that we've had for a long time or that comes with this baggage that is who we are. But that very thing that we think is what keeps us from growing past that. Mm-hmm. From truly repenting of that way of truly being transformed in that area. Because what we're really saying is, I'm not new in that area. That is who I am. Therefore it's going to happen again rather than when it does happen again, I'm going to repent of that thing and know that that's not who I want to be. . Okay. Something that, this is baggage from my life and it's, I've been confronted with it a lot and it's a really hard thing to just constantly confronted with. But I think I've been making strides in the last most recent years, more than I have in my whole life. Because I've finally believed it was an issue where before I believed this lie that no, it's just who I am. Oh, it's because of the way I was raised. Jennifer (24:55):You should just tell 'em what it is I was going to say. Or minimizing it. It's not minimizing, it's not how you're perceiving it. That's not what I'm doing. Aaron (25:05):So my way of communicating , my way of talking, my way of sharing, my way of using my words and my tones and my facial expressions in a normal setting can be very passionate, very Jennifer (25:25):I feel like is a positive spin on what you're Aaron (25:28):Well in a general scenario, yeah, it, I think a positive thing. But it has gotten me sometimes into a lot of Jennifer (25:35):Trouble. Sometimes it can sound argumentative or fights me. Aaron (25:40):Sometimes it is argumentative, sometimes it is argue. I used to love the argument. We'll Jennifer (25:47):Say this, you're a very strong communicator. You're a confident communicator. And sometimes it's Aaron (25:52):Just, which should come off. Arrogant Jennifer (25:53):Comes off the wrong way. Aaron (25:55):It Jennifer (25:55):Comes. And then because of all this in situations with me where you're actually stressed, frustrated there's a problem. It sounds, it comes out and it sounds harsh. And that's where I get sensitive. I'll say this, wait a minute. Aaron (26:08):More than one person who were friends of mine told me that when they first met me, they thought I was a big jerk. So it's not like this is a isolated event. This is a thing that has followed me when I'm overwhelmed. So on the extreme negative side of this, when I'm overwhelmed or stressed or frustrated or embarrassed or feel guilty, then it comes out in harshness, in controlling words. And Jennifer (26:39):Not so compassionate. Aaron (26:40):And not compassionate is not on the list of words that describes what I do. And Jennifer, you, it's interesting how God Jennifer (26:50):Pairs us up. Aaron (26:51):Yeah. Pair pairs us up with the people that who is it? Timothy Keller that says this idea that your spouse is a perfect mirror reflecting your son back at you. Jennifer (27:02):Gary. Gary Thomas. Aaron (27:02):Oh, Gary Thomas. Thank you. I was thinking, I was like, it's one of those writers that have written sacred marriage. Yeah. Sacred marriage. And that's exactly what it is. You, you're sensitive to that. Sensitive to that way of communicating the harshness in a big way, I think rightly. And so when it happens, when I walk in that past way of being that baggage, when I allow that to be, when I react rather than respond, it's you shut down and it hurts you and it's really hard for you to open back up to me in that moment. That's something that we've, for 15 years now, it's been a, yeah, Jennifer (27:41):I was going to make an a note cuz when we say past baggage, a lot of times it sounds like something or is associated with something that happens prior to marriage, which a lot of it does childhood and all of that. But I mean we've been married 15 years now, so our past baggage is we're creeping into early marriage and that's our Aaron (28:00):Early marriage baggage is creeped into our present now, our present marriage. Jennifer (28:05):Yeah. I just think that's interesting how even our recent past something can happen or an experience that kind of changes us in a way that if we're not being willing to examine, could follow us and continue a pattern of hurt in our life and in our spouse's Aaron (28:24):Life. And it has in many different ways. But the awesome thing is when we are willing to see it, which is a form of humility. Oh wait, I'm not perfect. Oh wait, I have these issues that need, that God wants to change in me, then it can actually be dealt with. And so I would say, Jennifer, am I perfect at this? Jennifer (28:50):No, but you have grown a lot Aaron (28:52):And I also have gotten better. I think this is the biggest thing I've changed and I've gotten better at receiving when you tell me I'm being harsh. Totally. Where I used to fight and defend and justify. And Jennifer (29:04):I would also say that your level of harsh being harsh has not changed. Where in the beginning it was a lot more. Right. Aaron (29:12):But again, that intense, that baggage from the past goes into how you respond because you remember how it was and you felt it. And all those things still exist in you. And so that's been something that you've had to learn how to grow in is how to receive me as a change. Jennifer (29:29):See, we're complex. Marriage is complex. This is all complex, super Aaron (29:33):Complex. Listen, Jennifer (29:34):We're figuring it out complex. Okay, so are we choosing to hold on to ways of being because of what's happened in the past? Aaron (29:46):I got a question for you. Jennifer (29:47):Well wait, Aaron (29:48):I just asked a question. I know you're sounded rhetorical. No it's not though because we could be choosing it. But I got a question, why would someone choose, can I ask you why have you chosen to hold onto something? Something that came to my mind and maybe you're, hopefully you're okay with me sharing it when I sin against you or when I do something wrong or hurt you. You have a hard time moving past it letting go because you're fearful that I won't get it Jennifer (30:24):Like you. Yeah. Aaron (30:28):Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. You know what I'm trying to describe it carefully. Jennifer (30:32):No I don't. Don't know exactly. But I think what you're saying is I get afraid that maybe you haven't learned your lesson or understood how you hurt me. And so now I have to teach you how you hurt me. And Aaron (30:44):So I'm not necessarily saying holding you, holding onto that thing, but you holding onto that way of showing your hurt. Jennifer (30:53):Yeah, the closed offness, the shutting off the leave me alone. Aaron (30:56):Yeah. Is it something that you think you choose to hold onto? I literally thought about it when you asked the question just now. I was thinking, oh, why would someone choose that? Choose to hold onto something. Jennifer (31:08):Yeah. I think I feel like almost in a way it validates why I feel the way that I feel because the moment that I let it go, it's like we're back to square one. I don't know. Aaron (31:20):Well so here's something I just thought about. There was parts of me. So I have my ears pierced. I mean I don't even have jewelry in 'em anymore. I used to have these plugs and it's just a big hole. Now, I don't know if you've seen pictures of me but that Steph my beard thi things about my persona I held onto because I believed a certain thing about myself that if I had these earrings, if I had this beard, if I dressed this way or whatever it was, I would fit in or stand out or these things that I held onto from when I was younger for various reasons. Cuz I wanted to be a part of something. It was very hard for me to let those parts of me go or allow them to be changed. So I chose to hold onto those things purely because of the security I felt and how it shaped my identity. (32:20):So that was something for me. And it was, do you remember that? It was a very hard season for, which is so funny cuz all I was doing was taking out these two wood plucks outta my ears. But it was a big deal because I was recognizing how much I was holding onto this picture of who I thought I was. No one else cared in the whole world, but I had this idea. So I think sometimes people can choose to hold on to this baggage because it actually is a part of our identity. Like well that if I let go of that, then I'm, that I cease to be who I am. Which also is not true cuz we're so much more than just the way I communicate my harsh words or if I yell when I'm angry. Those kinds of things that that's just for me. Those are things that can be changing. God wants to change, he wants me to be a better man in those areas. Just Jennifer (33:22):For the record, you don't really yell. Aaron (33:23):No, I'm trying to give examples of I do get loud just what I'm excited or anything. Our whole family's really loud. Jennifer (33:32):Actually no, I That's a lot different than saying yell. You just explained to them that you're harsh and now you just said that. I know. They're Aaron (33:37):Like, Aaron yells. No, no, you're right. I don't really do that but I'm just trying to say is I think that's one reason someone can hold onto it. Do I don't know if there's any other you could think of, but it's a good question to ask. Are we choosing to hold onto this baggage? Jennifer (33:55):Yeah, I think that we end up choosing it when we make that decision of whether or not we're going to handle what's in that backpack, what's in that bag, what's holding us back, what we're holding onto. Aaron (34:08):So it's it, it's not necessarily, it may not be an active, I choose this, but more of a, I refuse to look at it. I don't wanna see this. It's an apathy towards the, Jennifer (34:20):I'm not going to deal with Aaron (34:21):It that thing inside of me. No, you have your stuff and don't Jennifer (34:25):Like, you're not cheerfully walking around the house with a backpack on, but it is sitting right in front of your front entryway. Aaron (34:34):So this next note it kind of leads into that is, or what we're saying kind of leads into this next note I should say sometimes these things can be subconscious that they could be just parts of us. We again we're react reactions but for the believer, eventually God will work these things out to the surface. Yeah, Jennifer (34:55):That's Aaron (34:56):True. When we're in his word, when we're in prayer, when we, we love God and we follow him eventually God, if it's something that is opposed to his will, if it's something that doesn't align with the bride of Christ, it's going to work to the surface Jennifer (35:13):Decades later. Have you ever been like, why am I dealing with this right now Aaron (35:17):Or again, because why am I dealing with this again? Because Jennifer (35:20):God loves us and he cares about Aaron (35:22):Us. That scripture, we know that we're sons because he disciplines us, because he disciplines those he loves. So that part of that discipline is bringing to the surface these things that he desires to remove from us change in us. Jennifer (35:40):Something that is important for us to ask ourselves is do we desire our spouse to grow and change from their past and how it affects them. I know this whole episode we've kind of talked about from our perspective and our point of view, what's in our baggage. But I think another part of the question here is do we care about what's happening to our spouse and do we have eyes to see them and what they're going through? Are we able to sift through their responses and reactions to say, Hey, there's this thing over here that's bothAarong you. Address that. Aaron (36:16):Well I think in a wrong way, this is the easiest thing for us to do. Jennifer (36:26): point the finger. Aaron (36:27):Yeah, . Look at this thing John. That's Jennifer (36:29):Not how I meant that Aaron (36:30):Question. We're good. I know, but when you were reading it I was like, was like, yes Jennifer (36:35):We do do that, Aaron (36:36):But we tend to have an easier time identifying the issues in our spouse or in anyone else. That's true. But what you are saying Jennifer (36:48):It's Als Oh sorry, go ahead. Aaron (36:50):I was just going to say what you are saying is the more I is the what God does desire from us is that we see these things in our spouse for their good, not because we want to be. Right. Right. So I actually care about you, Jennifer (37:09):I wanna work this out with you. Aaron (37:11):But I think that can only happen when we can see ourselves clearly Jennifer (37:16):Right. In a right way. Yeah, that's true. Aaron (37:18):Because if we're refusing to look at ourselves then I think we'll always see wrongly I was, or at least with a wrong heart. Jennifer (37:26):Yeah, I was going to add to what you were just saying and just explain how, and I don't think that I'm alone in this maybe , but it's not only is it easier to see what your spouse is dealing with and how it affects them, but it's easier for me to get passionate or fired up about, you know, need to change that thing cuz it's affecting us and it's affecting our marriage way easier and way more intense than seeing myself clearly and saying, Ooh, that's bad. I need to change that. And being away intense about it. I'm more light with myself as far, I'm a hard critic, but I'm light on the side of I need to change this Aaron (38:09):Again. I think that's also a really common thing. We tend to be very lenient with our own sin but strict Jennifer (38:19):With others. That's what I was trying to say. You simplify things good for Aaron (38:21):Me. Well, but what you said was correct. Yeah. We just had a conversation about something that we were like, yeah that needs to change right now. And then it's like, oh but I have stuff. Can I have that same passion for my own transformation? Jennifer (38:39):We real quick, just earlier we were talking about whether or not we're choosing to keep the baggage and to hold onto it. So obviously the Holy Spirit talks to us Christians and walks us through God's word and holds up that mirror. And so we're constantly confronted with sin whether we'd like to admit it or not. Will you just explain the consequence of resisting the Holy Spirit quenching the Holy Spirit? Yeah. What happens? Aaron (39:11):Do you remember when I would explain to you how heavy I felt when I maybe messed up a little bit in this area and I knew I needed to confess to you, but I didn't want to and I just felt like the spirit of God wouldn't let me move past that. And I believe that's something that we can grow in sensitivity to with Christ is that of our sin gets more and more heavy regardless of how small we think it is. And there's this verse in Psalm 32, I just read to you just the other day that I feel like described exactly what it feels like when we push away the Holy Spirit when he comes to us and says, Hey, I want to change you in this or I want you to confess this or I want you to move in this way. In Psalm 32 it says, for when I kept silent, my bones wasted away through my groaning all day long for day and night. (40:13):Your hand was heavy upon me. My strength was dried up as by the heat of summer. And I feel like that describes what it, and this is David writing this that describes what it feels like and what's actually happening when we push the spirit of God away when he comes to us and he convicts us and we say nah and wants something else, I don't want that conviction. So you asked me to describe it. I think that scripture does, but I think that's something that God wants us to learn is how to become sensitive to listening to his spirit and his conviction and his moving in our lives rather than more dull. And that's actually the warning that the New Testament gives is to not quench the Holy Spirit, is to not blast from the Holy Spirit is to not push him away for in doing so we will harden our hearts and we don't wanna do that. We wanna be sensitive and pliable and moldable and open to God and when he has for us. Jennifer (41:23):That's really good. Sorry to jump back and forth here. So then we were just talking about how it's easier to see what's going on in our spouse's life and easier to become more intense about you need to change this area. And I was just thinking about Matthew seven, one through five about taking the plank out of your own eye. Read it. Aaron (41:42):Yeah, why don't we just read real quick. So starting in verse one Matthew seven, judge, not that you be not judged for we for with what judgment you judge, you'll be judged and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye but do not consider the plank in your own eye Or how can you say to your brother, let me remove the speck from your eye. And look, plank is in your own eye. Hypocrite first, remove the plank from your own eye and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. Jennifer (42:16):That's kinda like the whole point of this episode today. Aaron (42:19):It kinda is. Jennifer (42:20):Yeah, we want you to see clearly. Aaron (42:23):And the purpose of seeing clearly is for the mutual upbuilding and encouragement of your brother or your wife or your friend in the church. And so we, in removing our plank and allowing the spirit of God to say, Hey there's look at this plank in your eye, then we can see clearly in each in someone else's eyes and we can see, hey, I'm coming to you out of love and compassion. Here's something I see in you and let's work on that. Let's grow. And then I think the Lord wants you to change in that or get rid of it altogether. Jennifer (42:57):Yeah, that's good. So we mentioned last episode that you were headed off to a men's retreat and you had a really great time. Your friend let out a little message time and ask some really good questions. And so I was going to ask if you wanted to share those cuz those are really good questions to kind of prompt those listening can go back with their spouse and ask each other. Aaron (43:25):It was breaking up your life into just different categories, marriage, parenting, friends, church, and then asking a few questions in each of those areas for the sake of growth. One is the first question is what's something that's tripping you up or keeping you from what you want desire in that area? So again, what baggage is holding you back? What's that thing? And then the next question is, what's a goal you do have? So say for your marriage. Jennifer (44:00):So it's a hard and a positive. Aaron (44:02):And then the last one is like, what's one step you could take today to work toward that goal? But those can work in the same with what we're talking about too is evaluating okay, what area of my life do I feel like I've just been holding onto something that's affected me? And then what's your goal with that? And then what's one step you can take toward rid that from your life, cleaning it out, cleaning out those lunch bags so they're ready to be Jennifer (44:32):Used. That's good. So we kind of came up with a couple of actionable steps just to wrap up this episode because we didn't wanna leave you empty handed but tools. Tools. So once you recognize something in you that does need to be cleaned out and transformed, what are those steps? Aaron (44:50):Again, we talked about idea of plank eye or being able to see or acknowledge that you have something starts with humbleness. Yeah, Jennifer (45:00):It's a posture of your heart. Aaron (45:02):It's saying, I know I'm going to need discipline and transformation and there's areas of my life God that I want you to change or that I don't even know need to be changed, but they're there. So just having a humility, homeless to receive to not only hear from your spouse but a friend, but most importantly from the Holy Spirit and his Jennifer (45:22):Word and his word, God's word. Number two would be confess it and acknowledge how it could be tripping you up because this is a really important step because you might think about it, but it could be so brief that you brush it off and you don't wanna confront it, you don't wanna call it what it is. But once you say it out loud it there's almost like this releasing of Aaron (45:45):Good to just, well there's a freedom that comes from it. But it also, once you speak it out loud, it becomes a thing that exa, it's heard and now it exists and it's known. So that confession. But a true confession we talked about in the beginning, something that kept me from changing was minimizing. This is a tool we use, it's defense mechanism. If I can minimize the thing, the sin, the way of being, oh it's not that bad. Oh it's just my personality. Oh it's just my upbringing. Oh it's just my nationality. Oh it's just my whatever you want to call it. And you minimize the bad attitude. You minimize the harsh way of talking, you minimize the sin behavior, then you're not actually confessing. What you're doing is you're shrinking and making it seem small and saying, yeah, it's not that bad. But confession is like, you know what God doesn't want that. I wanna, I don't want it because God doesn't want it. Jennifer (46:41):On a side note, a part of this confessing and acknowledging is also acknowledging the effect it has on your present and on your spouse. Because that part's important too, that we can actually see it for what it is and go, okay, Aaron (46:54):This hurts people, Jennifer (46:55):This hurts people. That's important to be able to acknowledge that. Number three would be pray and ask God to keep sculpting you and transforming you and change you in that area. Aaron (47:06):Yeah, go ahead. Before the father of lights to make us more light, to make us like us on Jesus and that he's the one that does the work in us. He says he's faithful and just to forgive us our sins. And he also is faithful to complete what he began in us. That good work He began in us, he completes it. The fourth one, request accountability. This will most likely, cuz we're talking about marriage with these things, our spouse is going to be our best accountability partner. What Jennifer (47:37):Does that look like in Aaron (47:38):Our marriage? If we let them Jennifer (47:39):, what does that look like in our marriage? So Aaron (47:41):It means that, Jennifer (47:42):Hey, I recognize this thing in me when you see it, will you help me by Aaron (47:48):Saying something? Jennifer (47:49):Saying something, walking me through it. Aaron (47:51):Yeah. The hard part with this is when it's said to us or in our flesh, I do this and you've done this too, Jennifer, is we don't like how it's said. We don't like that they, they're saying something in that way in that time and their tone was off. But the fact that they're saying something's important and so if we can practice receiving, receiving, receiving. So going back to number one, yeah, humbling ourselves. Jennifer (48:16):This is the song Aaron (48:17):Na. And then go back to number two. We can confess it. So we can always go back to our spouse later on and be like, Hey, I really appreciate you reminding me next time will you be do a gentler. Yeah. So I think just receiving that accountability from our spouse but also adding on the more we can have it. So bringing it up to our friends, Hey, I've been this way with my family or with my children or with my wife, or in general if you recognize it, will you just gimme a little nudge and say, Hey man, chill out. Remind me of that thing that I'm trying to grow out of. Jennifer (48:51):And all this is practice walking in practice. And as you do it, yeah, it gets easier and better. Even with the accountability. We're better at how we keep each other accountable now than what we did 15 years ago. Aaron (49:05):And hopefully in 15 years we'll be even better than we are today. Jennifer (49:08):Hopefully we won't have to keep each other accountable at all. Cuz see, Aaron (49:11):We'll we'll be perfect. I think that's the fallacy though, is that we think one day we're going to be past all this stuff. Okay, all right. The reality is we go back to number one, humble ourselves. We need Jesus every day. I like that all day. I like that meme that says, man, I need Jesus to go into Walmart. That's true. We need Jesus literally every day and we need the gospel of Jesus to remind us every day that we need God and that he's transforming us. So I wanted to end with this verse cuz I feel like this kind of culminates this whole idea because at the end of the day it's not just like, Hey, let's just be better people. There's something beautiful that God's doing and it's in second Corinthians three 17 and 18. Now the Lord is the spirit and where the spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. (50:06):And we all with unveiled faces beholding the glory of the Lord are being transformed in the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the spirit. This is what Christ wants for us is true eternal freedom. And we get to experience it now in various ways and in little ways and in big ways as God is transforming us into the same image of Christ. And I love that it says, and it for a long time I didn't understand what this means from one degree of glory to another. And there's another scripture that reiterates this from glory to glory. So from one degree of glory to another, the fact is you are currently a new creation and daily being made a new creation. (50:58):Amen. That's the reality. Yeah, we are new. And then on a even larger scale, even before Christ, before you believed in Christ, you were made in his image. In his image He made a male and female were made in God's image and then in Christ we're being made into that same image. So from one degree of glory to another. And so it's a constant just moving on up, changing us every day. So I just wanna encourage you guys listening that it's for freedom, that God's doing this with us and he's transforming us cuz he loves us. So I hope that encourages you. Jennifer (51:42):It does me. All right. Weekly challenge. For those of you who are taken up, our challenges and doing awesome things this week is take each other by surprise. It could be sweet or it could be sneaky. You could do a prank, you can scare each other or be silly Aaron (51:59):. Jennifer likes the sneaky kind Jennifer (52:01):And the silly. I like Aaron (52:03):Anything next. Sneaky and the silly. I like Jennifer (52:04):Anything that's surprising and funny. I just wanna share real quick, A friend of mine surprised your husband over the weekend when he was gone and cleaned out his entire garage and got him a toolbox to organize all of his stuff. Aaron (52:16):I saw Jennifer (52:17):That. I know. It was awesome. Aaron (52:18):That is, that's sweet. Sneaky and sneaky. And depending on the kind of person could be scary. You put my, where Jennifer (52:25):Is everything? Aaron (52:26):Yeah, that's pretty awesome. Jennifer (52:27):That's kind of a big one. But Aaron (52:30):Also that friend surprise whose garage is cleaned out. You love to scare whenever possible. Yes, we do. So Jennifer (52:37):We collectively, Aaron (52:38):We do it. Actually a lot of people at our church love to scare. Jennifer (52:43):Oh, Cody, that's funny. Okay, so do something for your spouse that they haven't had time for. That's just like an easy example. You could clean out the car for them. You could organize a closet or paint a dresser shred those papers that they stack on top of the shredder. Hey, hey, Aaron (53:01):I do do that. Jennifer (53:03):Anyways, these are just silly ideas, but good job. Do you have anything to add, ? Nope. Okay. , Aaron (53:10):Shall we pray? Jennifer (53:11):Yeah. Aaron (53:12):Dear Lord, thank you for the way your truth transforms our lives. Thank you for not giving up on us. Our heart aches over the sin in our lives that cost you everything. We pray we would honor you by acknowledging and confessing our sin. We pray we would not hold onto anything that we shouldn't. If we are hoarding anything from our past that is having a negative effect on us, we pray we would be diligent and courageous to take that step to reconcile with you and restore any parts of our marriage. We broke down because of things we hold onto or ways we believed about ourselves or each other. We pray we would be willing to surrender to you every day. In Jesus name, amen. Jennifer (53:51):Thank you for joining us for another episode of the Marriage After God podcast. Aaron (53:54):If you found today's episode fun and encouraging, please take a moment to share it on social media or in an email to some of your married friends. Jennifer (54:00):Also, would you please take a moment and leave us a review, reviews help to spread the word about our podcast. Aaron (54:05):Be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode, and you can always check out more of our resources@marriageaftergod.com. Jennifer (54:10):You can follow us on social media for more marriage encouragement on Facebook and Instagram at Marriage after God at Husband Revolution and at Unveiled Wife. Aaron (54:19):We hope you have an incredible week and look forward to sharing more with you next week on The Marriage After God podcast.   Connect With UsInstagram | @marriageaftergodInstagram | @unveiledwifeInstagram | @husbandrevolutionCheck out our marriage resources!SponsorsGet our new book The Marriage Gift - 365 prayers for your marriage!Our Sponsors:* Check out Mr. Pen and use my code MAG10 for a great deal: https://mrpen.comSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/marriage-after-god-biblical-advice-practical-tips-and-inspiring-/donations

Speaker 1 (00:10):Hi, and welcome to the Marriage After God podcast. Speaker 2 (00:12):We're your host Aaron and Jennifer Smith. Speaker 1 (00:14):We have been married 15 years and have five sweet children who are growing up way too fast. We Speaker 2 (00:18):Love God and we love Speaker 1 (00:20):Marriage, and we love to be honest about it all. Speaker 2 (00:22):Marriage is not always a walk in the park, but we do believe it has a powerful purpose. Speaker 1 (00:26):So our goal here is to open up the conversation to talk about our faith and our marriage, Speaker 2 (00:30):Especially in light of the gospel. Speaker 1 (00:32):We certainly don't have all the answers, but if you stick around, we may just make you laugh. Speaker 2 (00:36):But our hope is to encourage you to chase boldly after God's purpose for your life together. Speaker 1 (00:40):This is Marriage after God. Speaker 2 (00:49):Hey, welcome back to another episode of The Marriage After God podcast. I'm Aaron Smith. Speaker 1 (00:53):I like you when you go podcast. Speaker 2 (00:55):Podcast Speaker 1 (00:56):. Sorry. Keep Speaker 2 (00:59):Going. And you are Speaker 1 (01:01):. I'm Jennifer. Speaker 2 (01:03):Okay. Speaker 1 (01:03):Some call me Jen. Speaker 2 (01:05):Today. We, Yes. I don't call you Jen though. Speaker 1 (01:08):No, I like that you call me Speaker 2 (01:09):Jennifer. I call you Jennifer exclusively. Wait, does that mean I'm the only one that calls you Jennifer ? What was that? Nothing. Speaker 1 (01:19):Just keep going. Okay. Speaker 2 (01:20):Uh, today we are gonna be having a light and fun, candid conversation with each other Speaker 1 (01:28):Because why not? Speaker 2 (01:29):Because we can and we should Speaker 1 (01:31):And it's Speaker 2 (01:32):Fun. Yeah. And that's what we wanna do. Okay. Before we jump into that conversation, I wanna share with you this week's episode's sponsor. Uh, this episode's sponsored by our 31 prayers for my husband and wife, devotionals. Uh, these are our, some of our best selling books, which is really amazing cuz that means there's th thousands and thousands of marriages out there that desire to grow in their prayer life for their spouse and their marriage specifically, which is awesome. We design these books, uh, to be a catalyst and an inspiration for your prayer life, not a replacement for it. Um, so if you've been blessed by this show and you'd like, we'd, we'd be honored if you'd pick up a copy of our 31 Prayers for Marriage books, and they could be found at shop dot marriage after god.com or@amazon.com. With that being said, um, what is that? What that, Okay. Speaker 1 (02:27):. Okay. Speaker 2 (02:28):How long have you been holding that in your shirt? Speaker 1 (02:29):Just a little while. So, can people hear me over it? I don't know. It's really cute. We got this. It's a, Do you wanna explain what it's Speaker 2 (02:39):? Jennifer's doing Show and tell right now, but it's just Tell . Speaker 1 (02:43):It's one of those Christmas snow globes and it has a bear in it with Christmas trees. Speaker 2 (02:48):It's pretty, It's not a Santa Claus bear either. It's just a regular black bear Speaker 1 (02:52):, Speaker 2 (02:52):Which is much more accurate. Speaker 1 (02:54):. Okay. So the reason that I snuck this into today's podcast and for you, Aaron, is because I wanted everyone to know that I really like the element of surprise. I like shocking people. I like saying, I like doing things that make you go, What are Speaker 2 (03:09):You doing? What's the term you used to use for your mom? Speaker 1 (03:11):What Speaker 2 (03:12):Do you mean when she's being sneaky? I don't know. A ninja. Oh, you like, I don't know. You like being in Ninja Speaker 1 (03:18):. Yeah. I just, I like putting smiles on people's faces and I knew if I snuck this in my shirt and started playing it, you would smile . Speaker 2 (03:26):I am smiling. Speaker 1 (03:27):But what's really funny about this is, um, so we do CC class on Wednesdays and my five year old Wyatt, the first day of class, we all show up and everyone's kind of feeling nervous. I, well, I was, I don't actually know if all the kids were, but I look over and he, he pulls this from his backpack and he goes, Mom, is it okay that I brought this today? . Speaker 2 (03:46):So he did a sneaky move Speaker 1 (03:47):Too. He did a sneaky move. And I think, I mean, just when we're thinking about life in general, like obviously we don't need to walk around with a snow globe in our pocket , but Speaker 2 (03:57):Well, that's what you do. Speaker 1 (03:59):Well, I try and come up with ideas that make people go, What, what? Speaker 2 (04:04): Why are we talking about snow Speaker 1 (04:05):Globes? I hope my friends, I hope you appreciate this about me. Speaker 2 (04:09):I do. Speaker 1 (04:09):Now we have to finish Speaker 2 (04:10):Listening to this. Well, you should go put it like in the far away so we don't keep hearing you in the background. . Speaker 1 (04:15):Okay. Speaker 2 (04:18):So did you get all your snow globe out? Yeah. Speaker 1 (04:20):It's outta my system. Speaker 2 (04:21):It's outta your system. It's outta your shirt. It's put away. It's all right. So what, what is this topic Speaker 1 (04:27):Today? Yeah. So we just thought it would be really cool to do a candid and lighthearted conversation, uh, with each other. And one of the reasons is because, Aaron, you have something really exciting going on this week. So, not that we had a rush through this podcast, or, you know, be quick to record, which we kind of did. Um, do you wanna share a little bit about what Speaker 2 (04:47):You're doing? Yeah. Our church, uh, we try to every year, but it tends to be year and a half, maybe every, Speaker 1 (04:53):Yeah. Speaker 2 (04:53):Um, year and a half. Um, the, the women go on a women's retreat and then the men will go on men's retreat, not always next to each other. That's, that's the, that's the coordination issue we have. Um, we have lots of kids and just life. Speaker 1 (05:06):So I think it's good that they're spread Speaker 2 (05:07):Out. Yeah. And it's okay. But we finally got one coming and we're really excited about it because, uh, we're all, I dunno, all the men are looking forward to getting together. And what do you guys gonna do? Enjoying each other's? Well, mostly eat food. . Speaker 1 (05:20):Okay. Speaker 2 (05:21):That's the majority of the planning we do is like, who's bringing what for food? ? Uh, no, I think we're gonna do some, I don't know. We, we tend to usually do some late nights where there's, there's prayer and encouragement and that sort of thing. Speaker 1 (05:32):Campfire type Speaker 2 (05:33):Campfires. Yeah. Uh, Jordan plays country music, . Um, we love it. Um, so yeah, we're gonna, I don't know, we have a lot of fun things playing. Cool. I'm excited. I'm just excited for it. So I'm jealous that's Speaker 1 (05:44):Coming. I mean, I'm excited too. . Speaker 2 (05:46):Yeah. Speaker 1 (05:47):Why not? I always get a little jealous that you're gonna go have fun and I'll be wishing I was having that kind of fun. Speaker 2 (05:54):Yeah. Well, mainly you'll be wishing I was just still in bed, bed with you at home. Speaker 1 (05:58):I am codependent in that way for sure. But Speaker 2 (06:01):I love that about you, . Uh, so yeah, we're gonna, this is a, it's a light and fun conversation where we're gonna go back and forth answering questions from each other. Uh, but really what we wanted to get out of this episode is to show there's a, there's a few reasons why these light and fun conversations, these candid conversations are so valuable. Um, first they can help you grow, get to know your spouse, grow closer together more intimately. Speaker 1 (06:30):So you're saying if they were to Yeah. Engage in candid conversations, not just listen to ours. , Speaker 2 (06:36):Maybe just listening to ours could do that. Okay. But yes, it do, doing this for yourself has lots of benefits. Um, two, it really is quality time with each other. If you just think about spending that time asking these questions, getting to hear the, an, the unique answers, even how the response comes that, that candid like, Huh. Like if it is, it, is it quick? Mm-hmm. , like it's been on their mind for a while. You're like, Wait a minute. Why are you even thinking about that so much? Mm-hmm. . Um, but it's, it's a, it's truly quality time. Three, it's Speaker 1 (07:05):A, And sorry to interrupt you. Yeah. Speaking of quality time, this even goes for couples who maybe the spouse travels for work or is gone for long periods of time. You can engage in this way via FaceTime or phone and still That is true. Get that quality Speaker 2 (07:19):Time. Yeah. Doesn't have to be in person. Yeah. Um, with technology is amazing these days. Yeah. Uh, another reason is it's just fun and lighthearted. Uh, how much do you just want more lightheartedness? Yeah. In our marriage, sometimes we, in the day to day in the grind in the, all the kids in the homeschool and all the things like you can just kind of, we not you, we, it can, there could just kind of be constant, maybe serious or just what's next on the agenda. Speaker 1 (07:49):You need that pressure relief valve. Speaker 2 (07:50):Yeah. Pressure relief valve . Um, Oh, like the thing you're afraid of on the I'm thought Speaker 1 (07:55):I'm terrified of it. . I still don't know how Speaker 2 (07:57):To use it. Yeah. Uh, slow release, always slow release . Um, and also just who doesn't want more of that in their marriage? Just more lightheartedness. Yeah. Uh, more joy. Um, and also it's just all around fun and creative. I think the, so those, of course, there's probably a bunch of other valuable, we'll see reasons . Yeah. So, um, that's what we wanna do today. And we hope that in the process of this, you enjoy getting to know us a little bit more. Speaker 1 (08:24):And when you say candid, what, what you're saying is, is like, we didn't practice these. We don't know. Speaker 2 (08:30):We actually didn't even write the answers down in the notes. We kind of, we didn't discuss the answers. We Speaker 1 (08:35):Didn't, We kind of went back and forth on the questions and you were writing them down. So you kind of have a framework for like, what the questions are. But Speaker 2 (08:41):We, I also added some in there that you don't know about. Oh, Speaker 1 (08:43):Great. See now I feel like there's more Speaker 2 (08:45):Pressure. So, Speaker 1 (08:46):Cause we're Speaker 2 (08:47):Recording this, this is candid. It really is. Uh, so if you wanna do this with your spouse, actually we wanna encourage you to do it. Uh, not as a challenge necessarily, but try and make some time to just sit down and be like, Hey, let's have a maybe on date night, maybe when the kids go to bed before bed. Um, and you don't have to use our questions. You could if you want, but just come up with some questions yourself and spend some time just Speaker 1 (09:09):Getting to know each other. Speaker 2 (09:10):Yeah. And, but having fun, just having a light conversation with your spouse. Um, and you never know what might come of it really. I think. So we're gonna just jump in and since I've been doing all the talking so far, , Jennifer can ask the first question. Speaker 1 (09:28):Okay. Who is someone in your life right now that you look up to? Speaker 2 (09:33):That's Speaker 1 (09:34):So, because I asked this question, you have to answer first Speaker 2 (09:36):. I didn't remember putting that first. Um, man, this is a, um, hard one. Speaker 1 (09:46):Really. Speaker 2 (09:47):No, you know what? I have a buddy. It came quickly. His name, I'm gonna say his name. . His name is Stan's Love. Speaker 1 (09:55):Aw. Speaker 2 (09:56):Yeah. We call Stan. Speaker 1 (09:57):Stan love Speaker 2 (09:58):. I, I look up to him in the way he loves his wife and his kids. Mm-hmm. . I really do. Speaker 1 (10:03):He's good. Speaker 2 (10:05):He, I just, I don't wanna say envy because it's something I am actually striving for and desire to be like. But he's got such a, a quiet and gentle demeanor with his, he's got three girls and a boy and he's just so gentle with them. Mm-hmm. and patient. And, and so I just, I I think I look up to him. Speaker 1 (10:26):That's cool. Yeah. I see qualities in him, like being very loyal. Um, being a romantic, like he takes his girls on dates, like his little girls on morning dates and bike rides. And Speaker 2 (10:36):That's Stan. Yeah. And also he listens to this podcast. So Hi Stan Speaker 1 (10:41):. Awesome. Well, somebody I look up to is my friend Nicki. And you mentioned Jordan, which they're married Jordan. Mm-hmm. plays guitar. And Nicki is a close friend of mine who I was just thinking about when she goes through hard things, like her faithfulness is just highlighted even more. And her steadfastness in trusting God. And I'm not saying she doesn't have hard days or that she doesn't even, you know, cry about it or, or you know, wrestle with hard thoughts. But the way that she presents herself Yeah. She's got is so strong Speaker 2 (11:15):Humility and a patience about her. Speaker 1 (11:19):Yeah. Yeah. And, and with her kids and the way that she parents. And so I just really value those qualities that I see in her. And it makes me wanna be like her when I grow up.  Speaker 2 (11:27):When we Speaker 1 (11:28):Grow up. Thank you Nikki. . Speaker 2 (11:30):Okay. I get next question cuz you did the first one. Of course. What's one article of clothing you could never part with? Speaker 1 (11:40):Mm. Speaker 2 (11:41):Hopefully it's one that doesn't get dirty. Cuz that would be nasty. Speaker 1 (11:44):Like, just wear the dirty thing all the time. . Um, the first thing that came to my mind is like an oversized sweater that's like my go-to when I just wanna feel comfy during the day. But then I also would probably just wanna keep like a piece of clothing from you cuz I get sentimental like that. Like I I love to walk around in your flannel. Speaker 2 (12:02):Can I, can I, can I say something? What you also don't part with any of my shirts. . You have a bucket. a literally a bucket. I forgot about that tub full of my old shirts from like when I was 18. Yeah. 18 years old. Speaker 1 (12:16):But that's because Okay. Aaron used to, and one day Aaron used to shop at like thrift stores and his clothing was very unique and so that was emo. Yeah. And so I saved them so that when our kids got to be in their teens, they would have fun kind of sifting through that stuff. And I think you'll have fun doing it. Speaker 2 (12:34):You said you were keeping it because you're gonna make a quilt. Speaker 1 (12:36):Those are some other pieces of clothing Speaker 2 (12:38):That I get . Oh, Speaker 1 (12:39):I wanna make this family quilt. This is actually a really cool idea. It's just one of those things that it's like when I get time to do it, but I saved, when Speaker 2 (12:47):We retire, all of our kids are grown up and have their own families and Speaker 1 (12:51): over time. I've saved pieces of clothing from everyone, like all the kids and everything. And I do wanna make a family style quilt where there it's like patchwork, but I don't even know how to do that. . Every time we move Aaron's like, so can we toss this? And Speaker 2 (13:04):This is is trash. No, that is valuable. Speaker 1 (13:07):I had to relabel it. Just so you, so Speaker 2 (13:09):Two. So truly the answer is all articles of clothing. Yeah. Speaker 1 (13:12):Everything. Yeah. You Speaker 2 (13:13):Don't get rid of, um, the, the, I think I, so I have a belt I really like mm-hmm. , I've had it for many years. Apparently has a 99 year warranty. That's that's a long time. Yeah. So I don't know why it's not a hundred Speaker 1 (13:25):Year. So you can't, so you can't part Speaker 2 (13:26):With it. I can't par with it. Um, but I really like that leather belt. It's stylish Speaker 1 (13:32):And it holds things up. Speaker 2 (13:34):It holds lots of things up my pants, other things. Uh, so that's, yeah, mine would be a belt. Okay. Speaker 1 (13:42):All right. We have five children currently and um, I believe this is the longest time. Well I am saying this, but you wrote it sounds funny. Of course, of course. I know this this has been the longest time we've gone without being pregnant again, But Speaker 2 (13:59):Do you believe it? Speaker 1 (14:00):Yes. . I believe Speaker 2 (14:01):That. Okay, good. Speaker 1 (14:02):So Ed's two and a half. And so if we even got pregnant right now, like the gap would be our, our Speaker 2 (14:08):Largest gap. This be the largest gap Speaker 1 (14:09):Age-wise. Uh, but people ask us randomly, Well, are you gonna have another? And so Aaron, what are your thoughts on Speaker 2 (14:16):That? They have been asking us that lately. When are you gonna have another baby? Not Speaker 1 (14:19):Lately. Just always . Speaker 2 (14:20):I'll always the question it's, Yeah, it's mostly like a surprise. Like, you're not pregnant yet. Speaker 1 (14:24):Do you ever get bothered when people ask you? Speaker 2 (14:26):Um, no. Speaker 1 (14:27):Me neith. Speaker 2 (14:28):Um, there's certain ways people ask that I might get bothered, but What do you mean? Like, I don't know, like in a derogatory or negative sense. Like are are you gonna have another one? Like, that bothers me. Um, whether we have one, another one or not. Who Speaker 1 (14:43):Would ask you a question like that? Speaker 2 (14:44):Not, not friends of ours, but other people that when they see we have five kids, , they're like, Are you gonna have anymore more? I Speaker 1 (14:51):Don't, I don't think anyone's ever asked me Speaker 2 (14:52):Like that. People have asked me that way. That's sad. So yes, I would be bothered in that sense. Okay. But, um, I don't get bothered when our friends ask us if we're gonna have another, cause I think they genuinely want us to have another baby. Speaker 1 (15:02):What happens if I ask you if you want another? Speaker 2 (15:06):Have you asked me that? Speaker 1 (15:09):Um, yes, actually I have. Yeah, you have. You said you're not ready. Speaker 2 (15:13):I, I didn't say not ready. This is my answer I've been giving people, So if you're gonna ask my thoughts on this, my answer has been I'm currently enjoying where we're at. Speaker 1 (15:24):. Same. So I, that's how I'd answer that. I I'm content where we're at. Speaker 2 (15:28):I don't, I I tend to not be, I'm not able to think in terms of being done or not. Yeah. Because we could be done. I don't know. Like that's, Speaker 1 (15:38):I I've been Speaker 2 (15:38):Savoring it, it's a biological thing in some sense. Speaker 1 (15:40):, I've been savoring my time with Edia as if she was my last just in case. But I'm also, I feel openhanded and openhearted too if we did have Speaker 2 (15:48):More. Right. So I, I'm not, I don't have any negative thought of having any more children, but I am really enjoying that all of our kids are outta diapers. Yeah. That's pretty awesome. Speaker 1 (15:57):Yeah. That's been cool. Speaker 2 (15:59):So that's my thought. I think that's my thoughts on that. Okay. Speaker 1 (16:02):We can move on. Speaker 2 (16:03):Yeah, I just a little add on question. It's not even on this list. Candid Speaker 1 (16:08):. Okay. Speaker 2 (16:09):If we did get pregnant, would you be more excited for a girl or for a boy? Speaker 1 (16:16):I think that either one would be great. Another girl would even out the three boys, three girls Speaker 2 (16:23):And we'd need a bigger bedroom already for them. Speaker 1 (16:25):. I ha I I think I would really enjoy having a boy. I have good pregnancies with boys. That is great. Better ones. So I dunno. Speaker 2 (16:34):I think another girl would be awesome to that whole even out thing. Speaker 1 (16:39):We'll see. Speaker 2 (16:41):Hmm. Everyone like that's Speaker 1 (16:43):Listening is like, No, I'm not pregnant. Speaker 2 (16:45):, everyone's, they're waiting or they're praying like, wait a minute, are they okay, here's a question. What's your happiest memory from childhood? Speaker 1 (16:55):Ooh. Gotta take me way back. If you have one on hand that you can share. And I will think through that. Um, I, Speaker 2 (17:07):My happiest memory, Speaker 1 (17:10):I mean I feel like it probably has to do with an amusement park , just because I grew up, I lived in Southern California and my parents would take us to those. So I feel like that was like a fun Thats very farm. Yeah. Knottsberry farm, Disneyland, that those were fun things. But if you mean like a sentimental, like I remember this one time I was with my mom, I was probably like six, maybe seven. And she sat me down in the front yard and I remember it was sunny and warm and she had the bible open and she was talking about, she was talking to me about praying or something like that. And it felt very like warm and cozy and it was a very vivid memory even still. And I really appreciated that. That's cool time. Speaker 2 (17:51):That's the happiest memory. Yeah. Uh, the first, uh, one that came to my mind, I don't know if it's even like a memory, but I mean I guess it is memory, but it was getting this, this toy Uzi and I remember it was the most awesome toy gun I ever had. And I remember it so vividly because I also, it disappeared one day and I was so sad about that. Oh, sad. So it's also ha a sad memory, but it was the happiest memory. But I just, I tend to wonder if my mom just got rid of that thing or something. . But it was awesome. And back then I don't even think they did the orange tips on the guns. It was just, they were even more cool back then. But I get why they do that now. So that's my happiest memory. Probably have other ones that I can't think of currently, but, Okay. What is one dish, not satellite dish food dish that reminds you of home? Speaker 1 (18:45):I don't think anybody was thinking satellite dish. Speaker 2 (18:47):I'm just making sure. Speaker 1 (18:49):Okay. Um, like home, like childhood, I'm assuming like home, you Speaker 2 (18:54):Name it. I don't know you home when you, you're eating like, oh this is like, this is home for me. this Speaker 1 (19:00):Food. I don't eat it anymore because I'm not the one that made it. My mom made it. Speaker 2 (19:05):Wait, I know what it is. What can I just guess it? Yeah. Is it cream peas over toast? So, Speaker 1 (19:10):Or wait, is that what it's called? Yeah. Well yeah, but I didn't need that because peas Oh yeah, creamed eggs. My mom would make cream creamed peas over toast and it's literally like a cream gravy with peas in it over toast with butter sounds and everybody ate it, but I just couldn't do it. And so my mom would make me a separate pot of creamed eggs over toast and it was so good. I think my brother knows how to make it and he does a really great job. Or maybe it's my sister-in-law. I have never attempted to make it, but when I think of that meal, like I think of home Speaker 2 (19:41):Is so good. I couldn't get down with that, but Speaker 1 (19:43):So creamed eggs is the hard boiled. It's hard boiled egg mixed with this gravy stuff and it's like peppery. Okay. Speaker 2 (19:49):I think I've had it before. It's pretty good. Yeah. But I, I can see why you would see that as a homey thing. Okay. My, I I only have one thing. Do you know what it is? Speaker 1 (20:00):Um, chicken nuggets. . Speaker 2 (20:03):No chicken nuggets. I do love chicken nuggets. . No, you do. What does it make me think of? Ho What's my favorite dish that my mom used to make? Speaker 1 (20:12):Oh, um, Sopa. Well, well what Speaker 2 (20:14):She called. So she's called sopa. I don't think it was actually sopa. Speaker 1 (20:16):It was like, um, Speaker 2 (20:17):Kind of like, it was like mac and cheese. Yeah, it was these little round noodles and cheese and like tomato sauce, cilantro and yeah, it Oh, with tons of cheese on it. Speaker 1 (20:29):I've made that for you a couple of times Speaker 2 (20:31):And I love it. Yeah, it's, yeah. I should have my mom make that . Yeah. For me. Cuz I actually want some right now. That is my Speaker 1 (20:40):Dish. Okay. How would you describe me in three words? I think we did this on the podcast when we did that round, lightning round of questions. Speaker 2 (20:48):Did Speaker 1 (20:48):We? Or did we skip over it? Speaker 2 (20:50):I don't know. Well, I'm gonna try and pick really good ones. . Speaker 1 (20:55):I Speaker 2 (20:56):Need thoughtful number one, you're very thoughtful as in you think about everything. Speaker 1 (21:02):Everything. always . I know this, I'm an overthinker, Speaker 2 (21:06):But with good intentions. Okay. Yeah. Um, You're thoughtful. You are. Um hmm. Passionate. Speaker 1 (21:15):You think I'm Speaker 2 (21:15):Passionate. I do. Cuz I think you, because the, i how do I say this? The things that you so desperately want to be good at you, you chase it and you work at it. And you, it's also the thing that like, you, you cry about. Like, you, you, they make you sad. Like, I, I wanna be better in this area or I wanna be, you know, I wanna homeschool my kids. Well I wanna, I wanna learn guitar . I need to go guitar. Uh, you're passionate. And so that's only two. Oh, I need a third. Really good one. I think you're beautiful. Speaker 1 (21:50):. You're making me blush. Speaker 2 (21:52):. That's not one of the words. Beautiful. Thank you. Not blush. Now I do. I think you're beautiful inside and out. I think your heart for people, your heart for your family, your heart for me and your heart for God is beautiful. Speaker 1 (22:04):Thank you. My three words for you would be, well also passionate. But why I was thinking you can't still I know, but I was thinking in different terms of like when you're in a conversation or when you're talking about something that you know well and have an opinion on or you know, just, um, hobbies or things that you like to do. You get so passionate and involved and every ounce of your being is like love Speaker 2 (22:31):Stewart. It sounds like I'm arguing . Yeah. I promise I'm not arguing. Speaker 1 (22:35):. Um, another word is confident. I see you as confident in your ability, in your giftings, in your friendships, in your, in our marriage, in finances, in a lot Speaker 2 (22:49):Of things. Well, it's because I live by a motto. Fake until you make it . Okay. So no one actually no one actually knows. Okay. Speaker 1 (22:55):Yeah. I don't know then. Okay. Uh, and then the last one would be, um, Speaker 2 (23:03):You can't say beautiful. Speaker 1 (23:04):I was gonna say interesting. . You're very interesting. Uh, I don't know. I don't know. I don't have a Speaker 2 (23:13):Very unique's better than interesting. Sorry. You're very unique. Speaker 1 (23:16):You're unique and Speaker 2 (23:17):Interesting or, or invaluable or priceless. Speaker 1 (23:20):. Um, I, I'll say this, You're loyal to me. And what I mean by that is like, you are are faithful to me. But then beyond that, it's like you, you wanna please me? You wanna help me do things like around our house or, or write a book or, uh, just anything in life that we team up together on. Mm-hmm. . I feel like a lot of it's just supporting me. Speaker 2 (23:44):. Like what's one of the things I'm doing around the house right now? Speaker 1 (23:47):? Well you're, you're building a chicken coop for the chickens that you didn't want. I know. , which I appreciate having. And we're, we started getting, Speaker 2 (23:55):Well, most people hear chicken coop. Do you think like, um, like a four foot by two foot box with like a cage? Or do you think 40 foot by 10 foot? Massive. Speaker 1 (24:08):Well, you're kind of telling on yourself because you wanted, I didn't give you dimensions. You built that thing as big as it is, but it's gonna make the backyard look really nice. It is gonna look awesome. The chickens are gonna be Speaker 2 (24:17):Happy when I finish it one day. One day. . And it will Was that, I will finish it someday. . Speaker 1 (24:24):It's gotta happen before snow. Yeah. . Oh yeah. All right, you why'd you next Speaker 2 (24:29):One. Okay. Is there anything about our relationship Good deep prayer that feels totally unique to us? Speaker 1 (24:39):Hmm. Speaker 2 (24:39):I, this is actually kind of difficult because I can say there's certain things I can say. I'm like, but I know this couple that does that and I know this couple that does Speaker 1 (24:45):That. Oh, Speaker 2 (24:46):I see what you're saying. Like, totally unique to us. Speaker 1 (24:49):I think like Speaker 2 (24:50):You could say author, we know a lot of authors . It's not unique to us. Speaker 1 (24:55):Yeah. But we're unique. I think what makes us unique is that we've dipped into, um, like traditional publishing, self-publishing, podcasting. We did videos for a while, blogging, like we've touched all, Speaker 2 (25:10):Tried a self-publishing e-course, tried , other things. Building vans. Well, Speaker 1 (25:15):I think we're really good at taking a dream and putting it into action Speaker 2 (25:19):And seeing if it sticks to the wall Speaker 1 (25:21):Yeah. And we're okay when it doesn't . Speaker 2 (25:26):Yeah. I'd say that's probably a, like if you just like, were to take tear down those like onion layers, like that, uh, flexibility. Speaker 1 (25:34):Like we're willing to say yes Speaker 2 (25:36):To a lot of things.  Speaker 1 (25:38):Extraordinary Speaker 2 (25:39):Things we said. Yeah. We said yes to a lot of things and not all those things like worked out and we were okay with that. So that flexibility, that ability to Yeah, that's a good one. Unique to us. I was thinking, gosh, I think our, what makes us unique or something that's unique to us, which I guess would be the same thing. Speaker 1 (26:00):Just answer the questionnaire. I Speaker 2 (26:01):Think our, I think our outlook on life and my, my what I mean by that is I feel like most people, many people and I, and if you're not this way, don't think I'm generalizing you into this category, but Speaker 1 (26:17):You're just trying to find Yeah. A unique of Speaker 2 (26:20):Us. Most people have this like, career idea or end result or they have this, this specific goal in mind for their life. But I feel like we've looked at our life more of a, Speaker 1 (26:36):We're gonna throw a clump here, we're gonna throw a clump here and like Yeah. Well, what's, wait for the picture to come up. Speaker 2 (26:40):Yeah. But, but not for the sake of the end result, but for the sake of the journey itself. Mm. And I feel like we've always been that way. Yeah. That yes, there's been like, we're looking forward to this thing or we're looking for that thing. But like, I don't, when I try and think about our future, I think like, well, what do we have now? And, and are we enjoying what we have now? And, and we, we do, we try, we tend to try and enjoy and live currently. Yeah. I don't know, maybe that's not even unique to us, but that's Speaker 1 (27:08):Good. Speaker 2 (27:08):I like it. It feels like it is to us. Did you ask that question by the Speaker 1 (27:12):Way? I don't remember. Speaker 2 (27:13):I think, I think I did. When of your ex and ex x The next one. It, Speaker 1 (27:18):When we are apart, what do you miss most about me? Speaker 2 (27:24):Hmm. Are we doing PG Speaker 1 (27:27):Aaron? Stop Speaker 2 (27:29):. I, to be honest, I I just like being around you. Mm-hmm. . And usually I'm like, Oh, if I'm gonna go do this a trip, um, sometimes I have to drive to Portland and I think, Oh, that's gonna be nice time alone. And very quickly into the trip. I just wish you were with me. Mm-hmm. and like this men's retreat last time I remember all of us were like, day one, we're like, Yeah, this is great. It feels so good. It's, And then like the next day everyone's like calling their wives and their kids. That's Speaker 1 (27:58):Cuz we're so Speaker 2 (27:59):Fun and all and the whole time I'm thinking like, this would be so much fun with our wives. . Yeah. Doing like a couples retreat. I think just having you with me when I, whatever I'm doing, I, It's usually better with Speaker 1 (28:09):You. Yeah. And because I know this about you and how you feel towards me, every time you leave the house, whether it's just to the store or to the bathroom, you wanna go with me? I call you and I'm like, Where are you? What are you doing? What's true? Speaker 2 (28:21):You do do Speaker 1 (28:22):That. You, you've been joking lately. Speaker 2 (28:24):Like you could be in the other room and you call me. I'm like, What? Why are you calling me? I'm literally in the other Speaker 1 (28:28):Room. . I know. I just, you always ask Speaker 2 (28:31):Me like, Yeah, where are you at? Speaker 1 (28:32):I can't go five minutes without you. It's true. And I, I am codependent in that way of like, not only do I like you and I like your company, but I actually need your help. Like, I need you to just hang something up for me or build a chicken coop, Speaker 2 (28:45):. And I always think, what does she do when I'm gone? , Who does she call to help her if she needs me Speaker 1 (28:50):This way? No, I call you. Speaker 2 (28:51):Yeah. Can you please come home? I'm in Portland, . No, that's true. So what do you miss most about me? Is it just also me? Speaker 1 (29:00):No, I just, I miss your presence. Yeah. And don't like being alone. Yeah. Having kids of help. Speaker 2 (29:05):It helps you fall asleep too when I'm home. Yeah. Like you don't, you have a hard, You know what's funny is I actually have a hard time falling asleep when I'm alone. Really? Oh yeah. It's weird. Hmm. It's like I, I'm like, Oh, I, I can be on my computer and, and then I'm like, hours go by. I'm like, why am I not gonna to bed? like, Yeah. It's hard to go to sleep without you. Speaker 1 (29:23):I didn't know that. It's 15 years of marriage. I didn't know Speaker 2 (29:26):That. It's hard to go to sleep without you. Did you? I know. I actually can't remember what it was like before we were married. Yeah. Sleeping alone. Isn't that weird? Speaker 1 (29:36):Hmm, hmm Speaker 2 (29:38):Hmm. Yeah. We'll we're almost, we're almost married longer than we were alive. Single. Speaker 1 (29:45):Oh, . I don't know why I said this. Speaker 2 (29:46):It's not true. No. Alive, right? Like if we're, Speaker 1 (29:50):Well like we got married Speaker 2 (29:51):15 years, Speaker 1 (29:52):We got married so young Speaker 2 (29:53):And I'm 38. Like we're only a few years away from like cresting that like being married longer than we were a single . That's exciting. Okay. If you could relive one year of your life, just one, which year would it be? Speaker 1 (30:08):Oh, that's a good question. Speaker 2 (30:10):I know some of these You didn't see me put on this. I was Speaker 1 (30:12):Sneaking there. See if you could relive one year of your life. Well it depends on why you would wanna relive it. Cuz I could say this last year so that I can relive it with a better perspective and Speaker 2 (30:22):Attitude. do everything different, Speaker 1 (30:23):Do everything better. Um, or if it's just one that you just really enjoyed and you wanna do again Uh hmm. I would probably say, or like, could I change things in that year? You know what I mean? Like what are the boundaries here? Speaker 2 (30:43):Well if you could relive it, that means you're living it again with Yeah. New understanding. Speaker 1 (30:49):Okay. Um, Speaker 2 (30:52):Can we do it together? Speaker 1 (30:53):What Speaker 2 (30:54):Do you mean? Well, would you relive our first year of marriage? Speaker 1 (30:57):I was gonna say second because first was Well that, that yeah, that would be fine. First year of Speaker 2 (31:03):Marriage. First year or second year. I would be, I would do that. Speaker 1 (31:05):Yeah. First or second year of Speaker 2 (31:06):Marriage with renewed with the perspectives. Yes. We have now. Yes. And all the stock picks we have now and all. I'm just kidding. Yes. No, but all the, yeah, all the, the ways we know. Cuz I, I look back on those times and I, I grieve them cuz we didn't know things. Yeah. We were like naive and, Speaker 1 (31:23):And yet it was an Speaker 2 (31:24):Adventure. Selfish. And, but when we look back we're like, that could have been probably better. Way better. Speaker 1 (31:29):But it was fun. It was, it was good. Okay. Is it my turn? Nailed it. Okay. How could we make our marriage more exciting? Speaker 2 (31:37):Go back to year one. Right. And Speaker 1 (31:40):Today, Aaron Oh, before you leave for men's retreat Speaker 2 (31:44):, I, I want you to answer this first cuz I actually don't know Speaker 1 (31:47):I'm thinking about about it. How could we make, I know for me personally, , I think that our marriage would be more exciting if you can tap into that romantic side of yourself and be more advantageous in your, um, in your Speaker 2 (32:06):This was how can we Speaker 1 (32:08):? Sorry. How Speaker 2 (32:09):Can we, Speaker 1 (32:11):I don't even know how to say what I'm saying. Like I want Okay. That surprise element of like me pulling out the, the snow globe. You Speaker 2 (32:17):Want, you want me to surprise you with Speaker 1 (32:20):Things and Speaker 2 (32:22):Surprise experience, Speaker 1 (32:24):Surprise attacks. Sure. If that's how it helped you have Speaker 2 (32:26):Jujitsu moves. Speaker 1 (32:27):Sure. No Speaker 2 (32:28):Chuck holds and no. Oh, that's what you did to me today. I know. Or yesterday. Speaker 1 (32:32):Okay. And I won. Speaker 2 (32:34):So more exciting. So you're you, we Speaker 1 (32:37):I wanna be caught off guard in a good, good way. Speaker 2 (32:39):Oh, you want like a, like a surprise Heart. Speaker 1 (32:45):Heart Speaker 2 (32:45):Attack attack. . Speaker 1 (32:47):Yes. Speaker 2 (32:48):That would be more exciting for you. Speaker 1 (32:51):Uh, I think it would, it would help us to have more fun too. I don't know. Speaker 2 (32:55):Like this? Speaker 1 (32:55):Yeah. What do you think? Speaker 2 (32:58):Um, more exciting. Mm. Speaker 1 (33:03):I mean we could take more vacations but that costs money. Speaker 2 (33:06):? No. Yeah. I'm thinking uh, more random outings that are not common to us. Like we Speaker 1 (33:15):Tried, Speaker 2 (33:16):Like experiences. So do you remember when we went on that date and we went fishing and didn't catch anything but we just tried to, we found a fishing hole and Yeah. Like thing, things like that that we didn't grow up doing necessarily, but we could. And maybe you did. I didn't really grow up fishing, but yeah. Uh, let's do it. Going. Finding interesting hikes. Trying to find a, a lake that we've never been to before. Uh, but being, doing stuff. Speaker 1 (33:39):We talked about having more like active date nights, but our dates have been kind of wonky lately. . Yeah. Again, we always go in and out of seasons of like really good date days and then Speaker 2 (33:51):Very, But again, we're okay with it because we're, Yeah. Flexible. Flexible . Speaker 1 (33:56):Okay. What's something you'd like us to prioritize? Speaker 2 (34:01):Prioritize Speaker 1 (34:02):In marriage or family or anything in life? Speaker 2 (34:05):Yeah. Um, I'd like to see us prioritize more Bible reading and book reading. Speaker 1 (34:14):Just overall everybody. Speaker 2 (34:16):Yeah. And like, but downplay some of the extracurricular things, social media movies. Which again, we don't do tons of that, but I think we could lessen one and increase the other. Speaker 1 (34:30):Okay. What's something I would like to prioritize? Um, well I think it goes back to us moving into this house and settling in. And I know we've done a lot of like projects and trying to get things done, but there's some spots inside the house that frustrate me. It's mostly me. Like the, it's living closet. It's not your fault, it's my fault. I need to like, there's stacks of paper and books and I Speaker 2 (34:55):Know you do not wanna see our table that we're at right now. Speaker 1 (34:57):It's like, it's frustrating to look at but at the same time it's like, I don't have time for you today . I Speaker 2 (35:02):Actually thought about this so I changed my answer to Yeah. To agree. I think we should prioritize. Speaker 1 (35:07):I wanna finish moving Speaker 2 (35:08):In the house better. Speaker 1 (35:08):Yeah. Yeah. And I keep telling myself, well when winter gets here and we can't do any work outside, then I'll be forced to face Speaker 2 (35:14):It. Which there's nothing wrong with that cuz I think that's a very good plan cuz we have other outside things that we need to get done. Cool. Speaker 1 (35:19):Sounds like we're on the same page. Let's do it. Speaker 2 (35:23):What's your most irrational fear? Speaker 1 (35:27):I have a lot of 'em. . There's one that kind of haunts Speaker 2 (35:32):Me in frogs and boots. Speaker 1 (35:33):Just thought Jennifer. I um, there's one that often happens when, like out of my peripheral vision, if there's like an odd shape or shadow or something, I think something is just there or someone and I turn around really fast and it's like a laundry basket or a towel hanging up. I'm like, why am I so easy to get Speaker 2 (35:55):Myself? I think a lot of us, I tend to feel that way if it's dark and I, I stop, I'll, I'll sometimes we'll stop for an extra long period of time to see if that Speaker 1 (36:04):Shadow Speaker 2 (36:04):Moves, moves and then I keep going like, it's nothing. I thought that I knew that it's not moving. So I don't think that's too irrational. Okay. I do think you have a slightly irrational fear of spiders. Speaker 1 (36:16):I hate spiders. Speaker 2 (36:17):I everyone hates spiders. But when it's like the teenies spider and you all, you have to do a step on it and you scream and I hold, I have to come kill it for you. Speaker 1 (36:26):And Okay. I mentioned my friend Nikki. We, we were working out in the garage the other day and I look over and this thing is massive big black in the corner spider. And I was like, Nikki, I I need you to go over there and I should take care of that for me cuz Aaron's still asleep and, and uh, and she was so brave. She just walked around over was Speaker 2 (36:46):It really big and massive. Speaker 1 (36:47):Like I would've grabbed like a broom or something long to like kill it. But she just grabbed like a piece of paper towel and just smooshed it. I heard it crack under her. Speaker 2 (36:54):How big was it? It was huge. Speaker 1 (36:56):Like bigger than a petty? No. Quarter Speaker 2 (36:58):Bigger. Okay. The body or the whole thing? Yeah, The Speaker 1 (37:01):Body was, well I don't know, Speaker 2 (37:03):. Speaker 1 (37:04):I Speaker 2 (37:04):Dunno. That's what irrational fears do. . Speaker 1 (37:07):Just kidding. It Speaker 2 (37:08):Could have bit me. I have a ex, I don't know if this is irrational by the way, but I will not use public toilets. to go number two. . That's a serious one. Speaker 1 (37:22):. I mean Speaker 2 (37:25):I only break that rule under extreme duress. Like Speaker 1 (37:28):What's the fear? Speaker 2 (37:28):I have no idea. Speaker 1 (37:30):But people like, you don't want someone Speaker 2 (37:31):To hear you. I don't want someone hear me. You Speaker 1 (37:33):Know. Everybody poops there. Speaker 2 (37:35):How dare you. How dare you. Okay, before I get the sweats, we should move on . Gosh. Speaker 1 (37:43):Not that you're gonna say something else. Speaker 2 (37:45):. We should move on to Speaker 1 (37:47):Another question. I think I asked that one. Which one? Man, I keep getting lost. I don't know. Where are we at? Let me just ask it. What one household chore do you wish you never had to do again? Speaker 2 (37:57):Why do you think you've asked this question before? Speaker 1 (37:59):No, I, I thought I asked. No, I thought I asked the last question. Oh. But I guess it doesn't matter. It Speaker 2 (38:04):Doesn't matter. Speaker 1 (38:05):All of the above d all of the above.  Speaker 2 (38:08):Household chores, Check , the household chore. Um, Speaker 1 (38:12):I can tell you the chores that I don't do that I wish I did but can't cause don't I don't prioritize them Speaker 2 (38:18):Because you're rational fear of taking the trash out. or . Speaker 1 (38:26):Okay, moving on. Uh, no I don't, I don't ever get to the baseboards. Speaker 2 (38:31):The baseboards? Speaker 1 (38:32):Yeah. But it bothers me cuz I walk by them and I see them them and I think to myself, Oh I should, I should attack you . And then I don't Speaker 2 (38:39):Uh, What's a household chore? Uh, I'm trying to like, I don't know if there's any, Speaker 1 (38:47):I'll say this. Can I say math? If toilets could self clean themselves, I would never clean a toilet again. Speaker 2 (38:53):That I actually appreciate that you clean the toilets. Speaker 1 (38:56):. Yeah. I think the hardest one is the toilet of the kids' bathroom. Cuz you know, you know Speaker 2 (39:01):It's Speaker 1 (39:02):A it's a big job. Kids' toilet Speaker 2 (39:04):. Yep. I'm, I'm just gonna say I, I can't think of one actually. Speaker 1 (39:11):I think you need to do more chores then. Well Speaker 2 (39:13):Maybe that's true Jennifer. Okay, we'll move on. Which family traditions from your childhood would you like us to continue? Speaker 1 (39:24):Uh, I really enjoy Christmas Eve services. It's something that my parents always highlighted for us that we would go to dinner with family and then go to like a candlelight service at church. And it would if to me it always felt rich and everyone dressed up and there was dark and moody colors and the candles and the music and there was always like a violinist or something special. Mm-hmm. . And we did that last year with the kids. We went, I feel like we've done it Speaker 2 (39:49):Maybe not every year, but we've done it quite a few times. I Speaker 1 (39:51):Love it Speaker 2 (39:52):Since having Speaker 1 (39:52):Kids. And I really like Christmas probably cuz it's a week for my birthday, but mm-hmm. . I like that whole time in season. Speaker 2 (40:00):Uh, that's funny because Christmas was what I thought too, but it says traditions. But Christmas, all I can think of. , uh, we opened stockings on like in the Christmas morning. Yeah. That was always the first thing we opened. It was like stockings and then we had to wait for breakfast and then we did presents way, way. It always felt like it was like the afternoon by the time we opened presents, but it wasn't, it was like Speaker 1 (40:21):10. What was some of your favorite things in the, Speaker 2 (40:23):In the space stockings? We would be, without a doubt always get this life savers multi-pack. Speaker 1 (40:29):Oh my gram used to gimme Speaker 2 (40:30):Those and it would come with like the um, the mixed flavor and then it would come with the butter scotch that Speaker 1 (40:37):Was favorite Speaker 2 (40:37):Like mint ones. And it would come with the, and I don't know why I liked those one. It was just candy. We didn't get that much candy. I Speaker 1 (40:42):Think it was the nineties thing. Speaker 2 (40:44):It was a nineties thing. Yeah. Nineties kids. Everyone that's born in the nineties are like Yeah. Speaker 1 (40:47):Yeah. We all are creating life saves Speaker 2 (40:49):Multi pack. Uh, and then there would always be like some, I, I actually tended to felt, I felt like some of the best gifts I got were also in the stocking. It was like a little pcca knife or a little laser pen or it was a little and those things I thought were awesome for some reason I Speaker 1 (41:06):Feel like I got silly putty every year. Like Speaker 2 (41:08):I did also get silly putty, but I love silly put so Speaker 1 (41:11):Yeah. Who doesn't love silly? Speaker 2 (41:12):It was like the target, like nails this now this is, they're one their dollar section. This is all the stocking stuffers that we used to get was kids. It's like turned into like adulthood normal normalcy cuz we all grew up with it. Okay. What makes you laugh? Speaker 1 (41:28):You babe? No, on a serious note. Um, Insta story Speaker 2 (41:33):Reel. Serious note. What makes me laugh? It is true. Memes. We, this is actually one of the past times that Jennifer and I indulge in every once in a while is we'll sit and I just, I look over her shoulder. She, Speaker 1 (41:43):I'm slapping at myself, Goes Speaker 2 (41:44):Through Instagram reels. Um, esp. Okay. I was just thinking about this when we're talking about trash, taking out the trash when we come across those marriage ones, they're so accurate. Yeah, they're so, so funny. I'm like, wait a minute. So is this like, just the majority of marriages deal with this exact thing? Like, oh it's so funny. Speaker 1 (42:04):I'll also say that I like, again going back to this whole like surprise attack thing, like being uh, randomly tickled or like physical touch stuff makes me laugh. Um, and then being with friends and I have some really silly girlfriends and we like to do pranks. We like to try and do challenges like, um, what's it called when you do TikTok? Challenges? I don't know. I know it's silly. Oh. Speaker 2 (42:28):Cause Speaker 1 (42:29):We're in our thirties, but talk challenges. Yeah. But the kind where it's like partner partner. Like you're supposed be be doing something right and taking front on that random, but it'll be late at night. Speaker 2 (42:38):The tortilla Speaker 1 (42:39):Slap. Oh the tortilla slap was so funny. So I like that we have friends that are willing to engage in silliness and that makes me laugh. Thank you friends. Speaker 2 (42:47):Ditto. . I do think that's funny. All of that. Do Speaker 1 (42:51):I ever make you laugh? Yes. I'm kind of funny. Speaker 2 (42:54):I'm always laughing at you. Speaker 1 (42:56):So Aaron, if you guys wanna know something about Aaron, cuz I'm a, I'm a jokester and I like to tell jokes, but I'm, uh, insecure. So I say I'm under my breath to where only he hears them. But when he thinks they're funny, he repeats them louder as if they were his genius. And then everybody laughs and I just look at him like, Right. Fine. Speaker 2 (43:15):Needless to say, everyone thinks I'm hilarious. . So. Speaker 1 (43:18):All right, next one. What was your reaction when you found out we were going to be parents for the first time? Do you remember that? Speaker 2 (43:26):I do. I'm I You don't mean my memory. Okay. Speaker 1 (43:31):I'll say I, I feel like it bad with my, I feel like it was mixed emotions of this like expectation. Like we felt like it was going to happen sometime soon and so we weren't like super surprised by it. But then there was this just cherishing of the moment of this is the last of just us. Like we know that this person's gonna come and change our world. And we were excited. We were really excited Speaker 2 (43:58):And hopeful. Yeah. I think heart palpitations, is that the word? ? Like, uh, just like a level of weight. Cuz becoming a dad for the first time, there's that, Oh my goodness, I'm not allowed to be selfish anymore. . Or like Yeah, like this. I felt like there was a weight, not a, not a bad one, but like a heavy like, oh this is, this is real and I can't stop it. Like, what's happening? This is crazy. But on the outside you would've known that because that word confidence used . Take it till you make it. It. Okay. I was letting everyone know that. Like, this is normal. This is great. People have babies. We're having a baby . Yeah. I was excited and scared outta my mind. Okay. You've been, uh, oh wait. No, I'm, I'm gonna go, uh, you do this question cuz I have to go to, I have to do the next Speaker 1 (44:50):Question. Okay. What are some little things I do for you that you appreciate? Well that's really good. Go ahead and take your time. And there's, you don't have to say just one thing. You could just list them. Just keep them Speaker 2 (44:59):Going. Yeah. Um, Jennifer, all the things that I love about you. Speaker 1 (45:03):No. All the things that you appreciate that I do for you. Speaker 2 (45:05):You do a lot. I one of them toilets, we just talked about it. You clean toilets and I actually really appreciate that. You're welcome. Um, you're also a, a laundry champ. Yeah. And I don't wanna say all these just household things, but they actually are huge deals because we have a lot of kids. Yeah. And they're big deals and I don't wanna make it sound like a small thing. It's a feat. And I just, I really appreciate it that I always have underwear. . Cool. That's a pretty awesome thing. Um, but you also, you can tell when I need rest mm-hmm. . And so you'll let me sleep in sometimes and you'll just, you'll take the kids out and I appreciate that. Um, and I love that you, you know, that I have a need for relationships and, and quality time with friends and, and so you'll, Speaker 1 (45:52):So even though I was born an introvert and, and born Speaker 2 (45:54):Out, you'd rather be by codependent Speaker 1 (45:56):Just ourselves Speaker 2 (45:57):Lover. Speaker 1 (45:58):I let people in. Speaker 2 (45:59):Yeah. You, Well, not just let people in, but you also, like, you'll, you'll make time and you'll, you'll say, Hey Aaron, go, Speaker 1 (46:04):Go hang out with your friends. Yeah. Yeah. Go to that men's retreat. Speaker 2 (46:07):So the, those are a few things. There's a lot more. But that I just, I really appreciate those things about you that you, you see those things and you care about 'em. Mm-hmm. . So cool. You have to answer that for me though. Speaker 1 (46:16):Oh, oh yeah. . Mm-hmm. . Well, uh, I appreciate that on a whim when I, not every time but the mo majority of the time if I'm like, Hey, I know you're already doing this thing over here, but will you just come hang this picture for me really quick or come use this power tool that I can't figure out and you're very quick to help me. And I, I appreciate that because usually I don't know what I'm doing. Speaker 2 (46:38):That's funny cuz today you asked me and I told you no Speaker 1 (46:41):. I know that is funny that the timing, Speaker 2 (46:43):But I, I usually do. Speaker 1 (46:45):But I hope that me sharing my appreciation for you encourages you that that things that, Speaker 2 (46:49):That I should go do it. What I actually, I almost did it tonight when we got in, but I, I was like, Oh, we gotta record. So I actually's Okay. I walked price right Speaker 1 (46:57):Past. It's, it's a bookshelf that he's gonna Speaker 2 (46:59):I was gonna, I was gonna go and hang that up for you. It's Speaker 1 (47:02):Okay. So, Speaker 2 (47:03):And just everyone knows, the only reason I told her no today is cuz I had chicken cooped work. Speaker 1 (47:07):I know. I know. Um, what else do I appreciate about you? Uh, I I love that you lead our family and our church in using your giftings of teaching. Teaching the word and your knowledge and, and just the, the way that you, um, share it, it mm-hmm. is you put it in a way that's understanding and comforting and yet firm. And I just, I really love that. I love that you, I appreciate that you push me outside of my comfort zone. Um, like podcasting or , any of the number of things that we've chosen to do, uh, be missionaries and trouble. Like, just things that I don't think in my nature and who I am, or at least who I am in that moment would choose to do without you. Does that make sense? Speaker 2 (47:58):Yeah. But if you were called podcasting was your idea, was it? Mm-hmm. ? Speaker 1 (48:03):I don't remember. Speaker 2 (48:04):Yeah. But I do push you to continue doing it. . So I have a question for you. What, you've been learning guitar, haven't you? Speaker 1 (48:13):Um, I don't, Learning sounds like it's an active progression of, um, Were you Speaker 2 (48:19):Learning, like were you practicing last night? Yeah. Watching YouTube videos, trying, getting your strum on. So if today you were as good as you wanted to be, what would you do with that talent? Why Speaker 1 (48:31):Are you asking me that Speaker 2 (48:33):You really wanna know? Speaker 1 (48:35):So this is like basically what's my motivation for learning it? Speaker 2 (48:38):No, I I I'm sure you have a lot of motivations just, just to have a skill like you wanna music, but if you were as good as you wanted to be today, Okay. What would you do with that talent? Speaker 1 (48:50):The first thing I would do is use it as a tool to engage with my kids in a fun way. So like learning, you know, I may never Martin the infantry, like songs that we sing Sunday School songs mm-hmm. or, um, Speaker 2 (49:07):Even other, they're CC songs, Speaker 1 (49:08):Their CC songs or any, anything that I could put to attune. Cause I actually have been doing this for years and the kids, I, I think that they love it, but I randomly make up songs and they think I'm actually really good at it, but they're like silly songs and I try to teach them about rhyming. Like, you just, Speaker 2 (49:22):You are actually really good Speaker 1 (49:23):At it. So like at night, um, and when I'm putting them to bed, they want, they kind of want me to entertain them a little bit and I'll be like, well, gimme a word. And so they gimme a word and then I'll make up a song about it. And they're like, How do you do that? And so if I could learn guitar and seeing my silly songs, I feel like I would just master motherhood in that fun Mm. Kind of way. Cool. Speaker 2 (49:43):That's awesome. And that would be a totally valid use of that talent.  Speaker 1 (49:48):Maybe. I don't need the guitar for that, but Speaker 2 (49:51):No, that would be awesome. And then you'd probably end up teaching 'em. Speaker 1 (49:55):I want to teach them. Yeah. I wish I I wish I could pass that down to Speaker 2 (49:58):Them. I wish you could. You will. Speaker 1 (50:00):I will. Yeah. If anything my desire for learning music, I hope we'll get pass down to them. Like to try. Speaker 2 (50:10):Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 1 (50:14):All right. Uh, what, Oh, I see. Would you ever consider an entirely different career path to the one you're currently on? Speaker 2 (50:23):Yes. And I don't say that in a negative way. I just How dare you. We've always considered it. Um, if one day, Well Speaker 1 (50:31):First you have to explain what we're currently on, right? Just so that we, we don't Speaker 2 (50:34):Know. Um, just marriage after God. Uh, our, our books and our resources and our podcasts and all these things that we've been doing for years now over 10 years now, uh, is, is, is our quote unquote career. And it's also a ministry to that we, that we get to par participate in, in blessing the community and, and grow helping marriages grow closer to God and to their spouse. Um, not that I wanna stop doing this, but if one day we were forced to stop doing it, if, I mean all the podcast platforms could totally ban our type of content, uh, Amazon could not allow our books to be sold. Those things are we, that's, that, that can happen. And so we're, we've always thought we have like dreams of owning a donut store one day, like in the future. So, like I said, we don't, we don't have this vision of like, oh, we have this perfect ideal for our business and everything more so we see, um, ba basically what what I asked you to marry me with was whatever we're gonna do, I wanna do for God and I wanna do with you. (51:39):Mm-hmm. . So that could look a lot of different ways. Yeah. Doesn't mean I want to go a different career path, but I could see an entirely different group out if we needed to. Speaker 1 (51:50):Cool. Um, I, I agree that I think we both have flexibility in where we're headed and what we're doing and, uh, I'm really grateful for the experience and the, the opportunity that God's given us with all of these things. Sometimes I get nervous being so, um, known or, or like, you know, are faces out there. Some Yeah. Level public. Yeah. Social media and feeling like I can't turn that part off. Uh, and so if we ever got the opportunity, not right now, but like later in life to just kind of tone down a little bit what we're doing, I think I would enjoy that. But I Speaker 2 (52:31):Was like, why you tell them what you wanna, you wanna do? What don't you have that you have an idea of? If you could just settle down and do one thing, it has to do with flowers and, Speaker 1 (52:41):Oh gosh, Aaron, now I feel like you're just making fun of me. Speaker 2 (52:43):I'm not making fun of you at Speaker 1 (52:44):All. I told Aaron that I wanna like, or , sometimes when I'm talking to him, my thoughts are kind of jumbled and so it's a lot of different things, but essentially it's a garden or like a botanical garden or something, or museum or something that someone can come and enjoy or like a nursery, like some something to do with plants where I'm just out there in nature and watering things. Speaker 2 (53:10):. That that's, there's nothing wrong with that. Okay. Speaker 1 (53:13):Anyway, Speaker 2 (53:14):It's, I totally did agree Mav Speaker 1 (53:16):, but what I was gonna say to this question is, a large part of my current career path cannot be, um, changed or given up because we've chosen to homeschool our kids. And I feel like that is my right career right now, is just making sure that I'm on it and teaching well, and I'm gonna be doing it for a while, . Speaker 2 (53:38):So that's a good answer. And one day you might have a botanical garden, maybe. No, I'm just saying. Speaker 1 (53:44):That'd awesome. Speaker 2 (53:45):Last question. What do you feel is your purpose in life? Speaker 1 (53:50):Hmm. My purpose in life is to be a light. I tell the kids this all the time, like no matter where we are, no matter where we're, no matter what we're doing, we are a light in this world. Um, and we shine that light by the things that we say and the things that we do. And I feel a large portion of our purpose is to, uh, be a light for God and for his message and to shine in this dark world. And that can be done in a lot of different ways. And so that's like the, that's like the general picture of what my purpose is. And then if you were to like, like the umbrella, and then if you go down from there, I have a couple of other purposes that I feel very strongly about, like motherhood and, um, being a good Speaker 2 (54:35):Wife, but that first purpose permeates all of them. Totally. Speaker 1 (54:39):And then, um, sub, sub sub is like just bringing that surprise to life. Mm-hmm. , you know, Speaker 2 (54:46):Um, this word purpose, it has a, a lot of meaning for me. Um, it's pretty much how I got saved was the Lord calling out on me purpose and just showing me or reminding me, telling me, calling me, and, and letting me know that if I wanted purpose, then I needed to follow him. And so I, I feel like my purpose is, has been following God. Mm-hmm. . And so that gets played out and every as aspect of my life, it's not like a Christianity is this thing over here in the corner, and then my, then I have my job, and then I have my family, and then I have, Speaker 1 (55:27):Yeah, it's all Speaker 2 (55:28):Intertwined. My, my purpose is following Christ. And I feel like that's been a my, that is my only purpose and everyone else in my life gets to, I get to benefit from it. Everyone gets to benefit from it. Just like that good fruit on the tree is eaten by those who pass by it. Um, so Speaker 1 (55:48):What, what would you say to people listening right now who maybe they're wondering, Well, what's my purpose? Or maybe they've never thought about it before or maybe they've never had the answer to it before. Like what mm-hmm. what would you say to encourage them? Speaker 2 (56:01):I would say that, um, I'm gonna tell 'em the same thing that God told me is that if they wanna find purpose, they're gonna follow Christ. He's the one that gives true purpose because as the creator, as the designer, as the one who put his image in, in us and on us, and he's also the one that calls us, there's no, there is no other purpose found anywhere else, but in the one who creates the purpose. And so I would just tell them to turn their, their eyes to, to heaven and say, Lord, here I am . Speaker 1 (56:39):It's good. Well, we hope you guys feel encouraged today just by, uh, learning a little bit more about Aaron and I, but also just being inspired to have candid conversations with your spouse and to remember that being lighthearted and fun and, um, getting to know each other is just, just as important as all the other aspects of marriage. Mm-hmm. . And, um, Aaron, why don't you share the weekly challenge, Speaker 2 (57:04):Uh, explore a new area together or with your family? It could be a trail, a special spot to watch the sunset. A park by a river we like, we like water. Mm-hmm. , sometimes we find spots by rivers, uh, a waterfall, which are always fun downtown areas. Um, and so just go explore a new area together. That's your weekly challenge. Last week's challenge was, what was it again? It was do a, it was do a surpr, um, Speaker 1 (57:30):Oh, random act. Speaker 2 (57:31):Citis random. Yeah. Random act. Ditis. Uh, what was, what was yours? You did one this week. Speaker 1 (57:35):Yes, I did it on behalf of both of us. Um, but we door dashed, uh, friends of ours again, Jordan nicu, they keep coming up, um, that Nicki got hurt last week and so just, uh, door dashing them some breakfast burritos Speaker 2 (57:50):And who doesn't love a breakfast burrito? Right. These are good breakfast burritos too. . I actually got the benefit from that random, random active friends. I Speaker 1 (57:59):Brought some home for us too. . Speaker 2 (58:00):Yeah. And by the way, we never figured out what risk. I could not figure that out the acronym. Anyways, so we're just gonna end in prayer guys. Dear Lord, thank you so much for the creative ways we can come together and learn about each other. Thank you for how unique you have made us and how those unique qualities and ways of thinking can bring us together in such a special way. Lord, we love you and ask that you would bring more joy and light into our marriage and the marriages of those who are listening give us a deep and lasting desire to always pursue our spouse in creative ways that we would never grow tired of learning who they are and how you have a uniquely designed in Jesus name. Amen. Speaker 1 (58:40):Thank you for joining us for another episode of the Marriage After God podcast. Speaker 2 (58:43):If you found today's episode fun and encouraging, please take a moment to share it on social media or in an email to some of your married friends. Speaker 1 (58:49):Also, would you please take a moment and leave us a review, reviews, help to spread the word about our podcast? Speaker 2 (58:54):Be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode, and you can always check out more of our resources@marriageaftergod.com. Speaker 1 (59:00):You can follow us on social media for more marriage encouragement on Facebook and Instagram at marriage after God at Husband Revolution, and at Unveiled Speaker 2 (59:08):Wife. We hope you have an incredible week and look forward to sharing more with you next week on The Marriage After God podcast, Speaker 3 (59:13):La la, la la.   Connect With UsInstagram | @marriageaftergodInstagram | @unveiledwifeInstagram | @husbandrevolutionCheck out our marriage resources!SponsorsGet our new book The Marriage Gift - 365 prayers for your marriage!Our Sponsors:* Check out Mr. Pen and use my code MAG10 for a great deal: https://mrpen.comSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/marriage-after-god-biblical-advice-practical-tips-and-inspiring-/donations

This week's episode is brought to you by our newest book "Marriage After God: Chasing Boldly After God’s Purpose for Your Life Together." One of our motivations for writing Marriage After God was to help inspire couples to consider how they can use what they have to serve God together. Sometimes we need that “out of the box” thinking to get us to see the bigger picture or possibilities that lay right in front of us. Instead of seeing ministry as a Sunday service practice, we encourage couples to see their marriage as a ministry, a reflection of God’s love in this world. Grab Your Copy of marriage after God today! Amazon.com Speaker 1 (00:10):Hi, and welcome to the Marriage After God podcast. Speaker 2 (00:12):We're your host Aaron and Jennifer Smith. Speaker 1 (00:14):We have been married 15 years and have five sweet children who are growing up way too fast. We Speaker 2 (00:18):Love God and we love marriage, Speaker 1 (00:20):And we love to be honest about it all. Speaker 2 (00:22):Marriage is not always a walk in the park, but we do believe it has a powerful purpose. Speaker 1 (00:26):So our goal here is to open up the conversation to talk about our faith and our Speaker 2 (00:30):Marriage, especially in light of the gospel. Speaker 1 (00:32):We certainly don't have all the answers, but if you stick around, we may just make you laugh. Speaker 2 (00:36):But our hope is to encourage you to chase boldly after God's purpose for your life together. Speaker 1 (00:40):This is Marriage after God. Speaker 2 (00:50):Welcome back to another episode of The Marriage After God podcast. I'm Aaron. Speaker 1 (00:55):I'm Jen Speaker 2 (00:56):. We're happy to be here today. We're gonna be talking about marriage in light of God's plan versus our own plan, which sometimes seems like they conflict . So we're just gonna be talking about our heart postures towards that and how we should respond to that, um, as believers as as a couple, um, because we all experience that Speaker 1 (01:18):Today's episode is brought to you by our book Marriage After God. One of our motivations for writing this book was to inspire couples to consider how they can use what they have to serve God together. Sometimes we need that extra out of the box thinking to get us to see the bigger picture or possibilities that lay right in front of us. So our hope is that you guys would be inspired by this book that we wrote for you. You can get a copy@amazon.com or shop dot marriage after god.com. Speaker 2 (01:46):Awesome. So, uh, you know, it's interesting is this book Marriage After God talks about a lot of the things, um, that we experience in our life also about, um, missed expectations and how God used them, um, uh, directions that we thought we were going on, but how God was redirecting us and giving us different paths for our lives, different visions for our lives, essentially where we're at today is not something that we planned on being, you know, authors and what we're doing today with our podcast. It was never an idea in our minds when we first got married. Mm-hmm. . But look where we're at. Yep. So, Speaker 1 (02:22):Yeah, the style of podcasting we do, the books that we write, everything comes from our experiences and what, So even just doing this season here and we've pretty much covered a lot of what we went through last year, right? Yeah. So today's episode is just a piece of that . Speaker 2 (02:39):Yeah. Just talking about the, because to be honest, that's all we have to share with everyone is what we Yeah. What we experience. Yeah. Um, it's, it's how God teaches us is how God grows us. And, you know, as we move through this life, we're, we're learning. Yeah. Speaker 1 (02:54):Hopefully it's relatable. I mean, who doesn't have plans that don't come to pass or, uh, who doesn't get frustrated when there's obstacles , Speaker 2 (03:01):Or who doesn't feel those strong emotions and feelings when uh, you feel like you're moving it direction and then God changes that. Like kind of what we were just talking about. It's, it sometimes feels really heavy. Yeah. Speaker 1 (03:13):Um, before we jump into Heavy, cuz it's not always fun to start out a podcast heavy, uh, I have a funny story. Well, it's actually your story. I just Speaker 2 (03:22):Can share it. . I had really good intentions. Speaker 1 (03:25):I helped make a return today. I went to Costco with a big box from an, it's an iRobot vacuum. Kind of like the Roomba or these other versions. Yeah. And we took it back because Aaron had good intentions to get me something Speaker 2 (03:41):That I thought, I was like, Hey, everyone has these and we have like all this floor and maybe it'll help, like, help maintain so that we don't have to like, do so much cleaning. This thing was loud, Speaker 1 (03:52):Like jet engine loud. Speaker 2 (03:53):And I, I also thought, I was like, you know what, I'll have it running like in the, in the middle of the night while we're sleeping. That makes the most sense. Speaker 1 (04:00):Or like, while the kids are to bed Speaker 2 (04:02):And we 10 o'clock rolls around and, and it's making all these noises. I don't even think you could turn the noises off, but then without all those sounds, I was Speaker 1 (04:14):Like, go, go dock it. Go put it back to bed or whatever you do. And remember you did it and then it like cleaned Speaker 2 (04:20):Itself out. Yeah, it has, It's like it cleans itself out into a bag, Speaker 1 (04:22):But it got like 10 notches Speaker 2 (04:24):Even higher. It sounds like a jet engine. So crazy vacuuming out this, this robot. Anyways, all that to say, we put it back in the box and we took it back. , it's terrible. Super impractical. Um, the idea was it would help us clean in reality it's way, it was way too loud and it was not, it's not ideal. Five kids running around the house trying to st to climb on it the whole time there. It's rolling around like cats Speaker 1 (04:49):All to say plans change. It could be the simplest of things like some purchase that you make or it could be some life altering thing where you get stopped in your tracks. And so we're just gonna kind of cover it all today. Speaker 2 (05:03):, maybe not even all of it. Okay. We're just gonna, we're just gonna talk about some of these, the concepts that, that, that come up with this, this topic and how we can, what, what should our perspective be? How can we deal with these? Because when we get hit, it's in these situations when we really struggled to be like, Okay, now what am I supposed to do? Or how am I supposed to feel? Mm-hmm. . Cause often we feel justified in our anger or frustration because well, we didn't get what we wanted. Speaker 1 (05:27):Yeah. I have definitely experienced those times. I don't even know if I'm like sitting there thinking, Oh, I'm so justified in all these emotions that I'm dealing with right now, but they are my fir like initial responses. It exist to the things that I'm walking through. And you know, just thinking about this last year, expecting or thinking that our move was gonna be a brief thing, you know, and we were gonna move in in a couple months. Speaker 2 (05:53):Are you talking about us leaving our last house? Speaker 1 (05:55):Leaving our last house going to the new house? Yeah. I thought it was gonna be a couple of months and it turned it out to be a lot longer. Speaker 2 (06:01):What was it like 10 Speaker 1 (06:02):Months? Yeah, it was like 10 months. But all good things happen throughout that time. And so it's weird that you can have so many intense emotions and think so negatively about something happening where you're like, cuz because of expectations where you're like, I, no, it's supposed to be this way because of this, this and this. But there were so many times when I was feeling that and you would come in and be like, But, but God like mm-hmm. , what has God had for us in this? I shared this in another episode. A friend of mine asked, you know, what does God have for you in this? Like, what is he trying to teach you? What is he trying to show you? And it's so good to, if we can stop and be reflective to consider, well is this God changing our plans and is he allowed to, Is that okay? Are you gonna embrace it? You know? Speaker 2 (06:46):Yeah. I think we, if we were all to think about it, we could probably look back on many things in our lives that we're like, we wanted, we wanted something one way. We wanted this, that new job or we wanted to, you name it, the, the something that we were hoping happened, expected had, but planned on happening and it doesn't. And in the moment we were angry, we were sad, we were confused. But then years later we look back, we could probably say like, Well I'm really glad I didn't get what I wanted in that situation. Or Speaker 1 (07:15):We can literally see the hand of God going, That was him. That was him. That Speaker 2 (07:18):Was him. Yeah. The hi, that hindsight is 2020 thing where, let's Speaker 1 (07:22):Talk about that hindsight real quick. Let's just give them some examples of what we thought versus what came to be. Speaker 2 (07:28):I tend to always, when I think about our life plans, , I always go back to the beginning. uh, do you remember when we first got married and how I took it to Africa with me ? Speaker 1 (07:38):Yeah, Speaker 2 (07:38):I remember that. Uh, well first of all, that probably wasn't on your agenda for your plan for your life, Right? Speaker 1 (07:43):I didn't consider it until we were engaged. Yeah. Speaker 2 (07:46):Yeah. And did, this isn't on the notes, but do you remember what you were planning on doing before we went to Africa? Like you had this life plan of Speaker 1 (07:55):I thought I was gonna finish school. I thought I was gonna get a degree and become a teacher and I don't know, I don't Speaker 2 (08:04):Remember that. Well, that was your tr tra trajectory. How you say that word? Yeah, I remember that because it was a, it was a conversation that we had pretty regularly. Your mom had that conversation like, wait a minute, what are you doing? Were you taking my daughter ? So that was one thing, like we had this, you had this plan for your life. One of it was getting, one of a part of it was getting married. Speaker 1 (08:22):That's an interesting season though, where like you're independent and then going into marriage and like a lot of things change in that time period. Speaker 2 (08:30):But we go to African instead and we, we gotta be missionaries. And, and in my mind back then I'm thinking like, Oh, this is what I wanna do for, you know, however long. I, I had no idea how long, but I was like, this is what I wanna do. Um, but that didn't last as long as we thought. Speaker 1 (08:45):Yeah. Once we jumped into it, which was really awesome. Um, I thought we were going to keep going that way for years. I thought, I thought being, yeah, we were traveling missionaries was gonna be like what we do. And it was a couple of years and then Speaker 2 (08:58):It was very, it wasn't even really, it was, it was less than a couple years, but quickly he pointed out something else to us. And we talked about that in marriage after God about desiring to get outta debt so that we could continue to do ministry for God. And also Speaker 1 (09:12):About that in that time tending to our marriage, which we didn't realize, which is a big deal. Yeah. I can look back now and see if we had just continued on and, and done ministry work without the intentional focus. We did pour into our marriage during that time. I mean, that would have not gone over well. Speaker 2 (09:28):. No. And, and you know, those are things that we didn't see back then in the midst of our pursuits. Yeah. In the midst of like, we're missionaries. We're doing this thing for God, it's awesome. And it was awesome, but there was also things going on that God wanted to deal with in us. Yeah. And man, praise God that he stopped us. Mm-hmm. redirected us. Um, and so we, that was one thing. We, we, you thought you were gonna be a school teacher and finished school. We thought we were gonna do missionaries longer. And then along the way there's this like weaving Yeah. Of this story that God's mm-hmm. writing in our life mm-hmm. of what he has for us. And what's awesome, just real quick, I was thinking, we, you were talking and I was thinking, man, all the way from that moment to now we're missionaries now in a different sense. Yeah. . Um, we, we, we support ourselves though now. Yeah. Which was a part of the reason of getting outta debt is we wanted to be able to be easy, have an easier time doing ministry for God and not have this burden. And we're kind of doing that now Speaker 1 (10:25):Or we're not traveling, Speaker 2 (10:26):But we're not, Well we do travel, but not necessarily Yeah. As missionaries. But it's just a different, it's a different version of it. I think that was something I was thinking about. So, uh, what was another aspect of our life? This is actually kind of ties into the next phase of our life that we had one perspective, one idea, but it ended up being something totally different. Speaker 1 (10:46): totally different. Yeah. We, well I know for me, I knew that I wanted to get married young, but having children just wasn't a super strong desire of mine. And so when we did find out we were pregnant, that was like, kind of like a shock to both of us. And it was really awesome. And I think that, uh, we were, we were ready in the sense that we had been married for five years and we were looking forward to that change coming into our lives. But then after I had Elliot, I remember thinking like, I can only have the one. Like, this is really hard. Yeah. This Speaker 2 (11:22):Is too much. How do people do one? Yeah. Speaker 1 (11:25):Yeah. But I actually found a place of contentment in just having the one. And I thought that that's just, that was gonna be our family. And then two and a half years later we ended up having another and then another and another. Now we have five. I just can't believe it. When I look at our family and just the growth that we've experienced and the size of our family, I'm just like, in awe. Like, whoa. Like I did not expect that. Speaker 2 (11:48):Yeah. And it, it was for both of us, we both had a similar perspectives of like, of, you know, we're not ready, we don't want 'em yet. That sort of thing. Mm-hmm. . Um, but God had other ideas and totally worked on our hearts in various ways and through different channels. And now we have five kids. We have a family of seven Wild And people still ask us, when are we gonna have the next, How are Speaker 1 (12:09):You gonna have more? We're like, we're not to . Uh, you mentioned earlier that I really wanted to be a school teacher and I was just thinking how I, I did wanna be a school teacher, but then I Oh, that's funny. Didn't, And I didn't. That that I am, cuz we homeschool. This is a different setting. . Speaker 2 (12:26):So the versions of our plans that we had, these are, this is like the better versions of our plans. , which is actually how God works sometimes. Another one that I, I feel like we've had these plans periodically over the last eight years of moving out of the west, out of the moving, moving out of Oregon to somewhere else. Well, Speaker 1 (12:49):Especially over the last couple of years. And I think everyone, you know, has had these notions of this like, itch, Are we supposed to go somewhere? Yeah. But we don't feel like God has told us to go anywhere. And so here we are in Oregon. Speaker 2 (13:02):We're still here in Oregon. Yep. Until he moves us. We don't know. Speaker 1 (13:07):Another one we were thinking about when we were, uh, kind of discussing about this podcast episode is how we both, uh, intended and hoped to get married young, which we did. And we thought we were gonna enjoy sex and then we didn't  Speaker 2 (13:23):And that, and then we thought that would only last a couple weeks and it didn't. And then we thought it was gonna last only a few months and it didn't. But Yeah. Um, when Jennifer was asking me, she's like, What, what things in of our li in our life did we have one expectation, but, you know, got another. And I feel like this was a big one. Speaker 1 (13:40):That was a huge Speaker 2 (13:40):One. Um, and this affected us on monumental tons of ways. Um, and God used it also in, in immense ways in our lives to really chip away at our, those areas of our life that we were not willing to lose control of, um, to let go of, to surrender in. Um, and so that was a, that was a big one. Speaker 1 (14:02):I think everyone listening right now, like they can probably pinpoint those smaller areas where they maybe had a plan in their heart and it was changed, or God had something else in mind. Or the big, like monumental things. Speaker 2 (14:14):There's like those cornerstone Yeah. Like events in your life. Yeah. Yeah. But they do, they shape us. Um, and if we don't let God do the shaping, then often we'll let the circumstances in our heart, in our flesh and our emotions shape us. Mm-hmm. . And that's when we get bitterness and we get anger and we get, you know, pent up frustrations and all sorts of dirty things that come out in bad ways. Mm-hmm. , I think Speaker 1 (14:42):I remember someone, uh, giving an analogy of like being in an oil press. Like when that, when you're under pressure or under stress or under circumstances that, uh, push on upon you, what comes out of you? . Speaker 2 (14:56):Yeah. Is it like good oil or is it like nastiness, Speaker 1 (15:00):? Like is it scripture? Like are you reciting the truth or Yeah. Are you just being nasty? Like Aaron said . Hmm. It was a good, it was a good picture for me. I like to think in pictures. Speaker 2 (15:13):How does it make you feel, Jennifer, when life doesn't go the way you expect? Or let's make even simpler each day. every day. How does it feel when the day doesn't go the way you expect? Speaker 1 (15:25):I feel like you just listed a lot of emotions that I have experienced. Um, but I think for me, I, I, I don't know if I'm gonna answer your question. I probably won't. Sorry, , but I will say that I just skip it. No, I try to avoid being disappointed or I try to avoid all those feelings by setting us and our family up for success by communicating. And I try really hard and even still I get interrupted or, Speaker 2 (15:52):You know, didn't happen tonight actually. Speaker 1 (15:54):It doesn't unfold the way tonight. Speaker 2 (15:55):Yeah. Wasn't there like these plans you had for tomorrow? Oh, for tomorrow? I just, Speaker 1 (15:59):Yeah, there was a conversation we had about that actually. , Speaker 2 (16:01):I threw a rich in it. Speaker 1 (16:03):Thanks Aaron. Speaker 2 (16:04):And you responded so gracefully and so patiently. Speaker 1 (16:08):Okay. Yes. I get frustrated when things don't go my way. I do have a hard time with change, which I always thought that I was more flexible than I actually am. Speaker 2 (16:16):I think. Do you have a hard time with change when it goes against what you have said in motion? Speaker 1 (16:20):Well, I think, I think because like what I was trying to say is I, I try and avoid all of those feelings by setting us up, by communicating like, this is the plan. Like this is what we're gonna do and this is the most efficient, effective way to be. And I usually think that I'm pretty right on this . So when things don't go that way, the truth comes outta here. Or when other people I know, but when other people don't see what I'm doing, Which Speaker 2 (16:48):Friend are you talking about? ? Are you talk, Who are you talking about? You. Oh Speaker 1 (16:55):Wow. When you get in my way. No, I'm just kidding. Um, Speaker 2 (16:58):Well just say it how it is. Speaker 1 (17:00):No. Speaker 2 (17:01):Cause it's not just you when I get in, it's Speaker 1 (17:02):God Speaker 2 (17:02):Too. When anyone gets in your way like, God, don't you know the plans that I have for you Lord. Yeah. Like my plans are, these are the best ones. You can Speaker 1 (17:13):We move on? ? I suck. I Speaker 2 (17:15):Know that. No, this is good because this is how most people think it is, is my plans are the best plans. , it's uh, Speaker 1 (17:22):You're wrong. No, Speaker 2 (17:24):It's reality. It's like you'll fail one of these days. You'll you'll just understand to listen to me and do . I have it all. Right. That's how we all think. I it's on some level in some way. We all think that way. So I that's that. Speaker 1 (17:37):So what's the truth? What, what do we need to walk away from this podcast hearing you . Please tell Speaker 2 (17:43):. There's a reason God puts stumbling blocks in our way or he puts, he puts uh, d detours on our paths because he wants his plan. He wants his will done, not our will. Um, and I think sometimes our plans line up with his, I think that's the goal, right? We want to pray and we wanna seek the Lord and ask that our life. But that, that's hard because just in the day to day, like what are we gonna have for breakfast? What are we gonna, you know, when we, you know, are gonna go do this thing or, So I think I think what's hard is on a micro level, it's more about how are we being when our plan, when when we don't get what we want. Yeah. How are we responding? Because that's that the Bible even tells us that the will of God is our sanctification. Mm. That's his will. So throughout the day God wants to sanctify you, He wants to sanctify me. So when we have these, this perfect order of things and one little thing just makes us fall on our face, we stub our toe, we bump our head and you know, emotionally, spiritually, Speaker 1 (18:55):Oh gosh. So just, sorry, you just said stub your toe. Yeah. So today I got back from Costco and I was having all the kids come out and help me get stuff out of the car. And Truitt came running out and I, I even gave him the, the freedom and the privilege to not help because there was some pretty big boxes out there. And I said, It's okay tr just stay inside. And he goes, No, I wanna help. So he runs past me barefoot and stubs his toe coming off the concrete pad patio. Yeah. Asphalt. It was so bloody. You guys gross. So you said stubb toe and I got that image Speaker 2 (19:28):And I was just, But that's a good exam. That's a good example is like you're running out to like, you got a smile on your face. I'm gonna go help. Everything's perfect. Everything's Speaker 1 (19:35):Great, everything is awesome. No, Speaker 2 (19:37):And then you bloody your toe . That's for our sanctification. It's for our tra it's our growing. So even if there's not like this big, you know, heavenly ministry or thing that's gonna about to happen in the next five minutes, what God does want to happen in the next five minutes is our sanctification. Mm-hmm. . And sometimes our, our plans don't go the way we want. And God's like, Okay, are you, you just asked me this actually, Aaron, are you walking in the spirit right now? And I'm like, well, no, I'm not. I'm walking in my flesh . And so I think that's what God's trying to teach us in all these, these things, these detours, these hours versus his plans. Yeah. As far as sanctification, Speaker 1 (20:20):Whenever I think of plans, you know, and making plans or even encouraging other people to like, hey, go dream together, which was last week's challenge. Uh, I always think of Proverbs 69, the heart of a man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps. Mm-hmm. , I love that verse. Speaker 2 (20:34):Yeah. And, and it's a such a simple thing, but it's so powerful is we have, there's another one that says many are the plans in a man's heart mm-hmm. , right? But we have all these ideas, plans, we like few we're tr we talked about it in a few, few episodes ago, like always looking ahead, like, oh, you know, there's this and there's that and we're gonna plan for this vacation, we're gonna plan for this ministry, we're gonna plan for this business and we have no control over tomorrow. All we have is like right now mm-hmm. and God's like, who are you right now with me? How are you gonna be right now with me? How are you gonna respond in this situation with me? And that's so that him establishing our steps is him placing before us these things and saying, How are you going to, how are we walking together? Are you gonna let me lead you? Um, a good, a good example of that. So business wise, I brought that up a second ago. Um, we've had a lot of things change over the last couple years with our business financially, and it's stuff that we have to deal with. And Speaker 1 (21:36):I feel like every year too, sometimes three, like there's this really big change Yeah. Just with what we're doing and how we're doing it. Speaker 2 (21:42):And this is something that God's been using to sanctify me because I, I tend to focus a lot, um, on the finances of the business, the marketing, the business, all the, all the ins and outs. Um, but it's something that God's using to, again, sanctify me. I have these ideas and, and aspirations and visions of what, what our business does and how it works and things change. And I have zero that is zero control over that change. One of those things that happened Speaker 1 (22:12):Good and bad because this what you're about to share was something you were not planning for. Speaker 2 (22:17):I wasn't planning for. Yeah. Um, so we have this account. So we we That's Speaker 1 (22:22):What I'm talking about that, that actually getting the account Speaker 2 (22:25):Oh, that, that originally I didn't, Yeah. I couldn't have controlled that. So Hobby Lobby, I don't know if you are listening and if you know this, but if you are a frequent hobby Lobby , um, our books are there, some of them. And for many years now, uh, they've been buying four books from us, Four or five different books from us, which has been awesome because they came on board out of nowhere, They reached out to us, they reached out to us out of nowhere at a time when financially things were just like taking, We needed it, we needed it. I was like, man, if I don't know what we're gonna do. And then I got this, this email from their buyer and I was like, Okay, that's interesting. You wanna buy some books for one of the stores? Great. But it wasn't that they bought all, they bought books for all the stores and I blew, It was like, it was a blessing that we had no idea. Couldn't have controlled. So again, that was something that I didn't so cool. I didn't plan for. And so Hobby Lobby's been awesome for us, but I, we got comfortable because Hobby Lobby was so awesome. Speaker 1 (23:24):Making those regular orders Speaker 2 (23:25):Yeah. Making those regular monthly orders from us. And then they stopped, Not, not all together, but like they, the order, the order sizes just totally changed. And they stopped ordering a few of our books, which they're allowed to do. And they're a totally autonomous company and we don't have any control over their buying. Uh, but that's something that happened this last year. And, and I get to deal, we get to deal with it, We get to walk through and, and we still get to thank God that they, that they came along when they did, even if they stopped all together. Praise God. They don't, They, they're still purchasing two of our books. So if you want to go to your local Hobby lobby, you could pick up a couple of our books. Um, Speaker 1 (24:01):They're the cheapest two. Right. Speaker 2 (24:03):They, they actually are the cheapest place to buy our books cuz they discounted 40% . So, so that's another thing. Like what we have these ideas that we look forward to that we try and control and coordinate and, and to harness. But I don't really, I don't have control over anything. Like, I don't, Amazon can lead our books tomorrow. Hobby Lobby can stop buying our books. Like all these places that we took currently are blessed by making sales through. I don't control any of them. And so it's, it's a really hard thing to try and have an open hand with that. Mm-hmm. Speaker 1 (24:39):. But you said sometimes these things can, um, lend to sanctification. So using this example of like, obviously you would love for Hobby Lobby to carry all 12 of our books. 11 of our books. That'd be awesome, right? and for success and growth and all of that. Yeah. But that's not what happened. So with changing gears with that, like where does it, what does the sanctification look like in, Well, Speaker 2 (25:04):I'll say Speaker 1 (25:04):This How you respond, or, Speaker 2 (25:06):The first thing I felt when I got the email confirming my fears was just this, like this, um, it's probably, it was probably anxiety. My heart was pounding in my chest and I was like, I don't know what to do. What are we gonna do? Like, just started freaking out. I was in the car by myself and I hadn't told you yet mm-hmm. . And I'm just like, okay. And then to be, and then, you know what the, so the first thing I I experienced was all that going on in my mind and heart that like tension made me feel a little sick, actually. Biological response. Yeah. . But then the, the next thing I did as I, I I remember saying, Okay, Lord, if, if this is your will that you wanna take this then Okay. Hmm. And it, it immediately made me realize how much security I found I placed in Hobby Lobby and then buying our books, how much security I found I've, I've placed in the book sales in general. (26:03):Mm-hmm. , you know, how we make money. And I just had to release it and say God at some level. Like I just got, I mean, at every level I just have to be able to say, okay. Mm-hmm. , like, if, if this is what you want to do and are going to do, I need to receive that. And it was super hard, but it actually brought me peace because what's awesome is, um, he's trustworthy. Yeah. Which goes into a couple of things that we wanted to bring up. Some tips for finding joy and peace when God's plans are not our plans. Like this situation in my car, mm-hmm. . Cause that was, that was exactly that, that moment of, Oh no. Mm-hmm. , I don't have control over this. Oh no. And so the, the, when you read the first one, Speaker 1 (26:52):The first one's trust him. And it's one of my favorite verses Proverbs three, five through six, Trust in the Lord with all your heart. Do not lean on your own understanding in all your ways. Acknowledge him and he will make your, he will make straight your paths. I love this verse because it reminds me that even in my good well intentioned thinking, I don't know all the answers, I don't have all of the perspective. I'm not all powerful or in control. And I need to trust him. Yeah. . But I need to trust him. Yeah. Because even when I am doing all the right things, or I do have a good perspective of how things should go, even still, he wants me to trust in him. And so I just Yeah. I Speaker 2 (27:38):Love that. Well, and at a base level, when we, when we let our flesh get to us with like, when like this hobby and everything or you, you name the situation in your own life where like, it wasn't supposed to be this way, This is not what I want. This is not how I, like, I wanted to to to go it at that base level, the core issue is, God, you're doing it wrong. This isn't what you're supposed to be doing. I don't trust like, telling him what to do. Yeah. Um, and we may not be using those words, but that's what we're saying. Like, No, I don't like what's happening right now. This isn't right, this is wrong. Cuz it doesn't feel good and it's scary. So trusting him is a, is an antidote to that. It's saying, you know, in this one situation with Hobby lobby, it's not, it's not like I do that in every situation. (28:27):I have to wrestle with things usually more. But in this moment I was like, man, I, I could freak out and, you know, start crying or I could trust you and know that you're a good God and you've always taken care of us. Even in the, the bleakest of moments, you've taken care of us. Mm-hmm. . And so th this should be no different. Mm-hmm. . And so trusting him, is that an, the second one, um, is humble yourselves first Peter five, six, humble yourselves, therefore under the mighty hand of God so that the proper time, he may exalt you Speaker 1 (29:02):His time. Yeah. Speaker 2 (29:04):And, and exalting this term can mean many things, but in reality it's, it's just being raised up. It's like when he's ready to put you where he wants you, letting and letting that be the case. But that it starts with humbleness. Instead of putting myself know, I deserve this. I deserve that job. I deserve that raise. Yeah. That's, I deserve that. Speaker 1 (29:28):That's a dangerous place to be emotionally. Mm-hmm. , because if you think that you deserve anything Speaker 2 (29:35):Yeah, that's a good Speaker 1 (29:37):Point. You're gonna be discouraged. . Speaker 2 (29:38):Yeah. It, to be honest, this is actually something during the, the months that Jennifer and I had our issues of like, you know, when are we gonna be in and, and just the emotional stuff Yeah. The emotional stuff that came out of that I remember quite a few times saying, Hey, this is a pretty awesome thing that we get and we don't deserve it. mm-hmm. , even though we're having to wait for it, even though this is difficult, like this, just remembering like what we actually deserve, which is judgment. And we haven't been given that mm-hmm. , we've been given grace and mercy. Humility is a, should be the starting point where every Christian mm-hmm. . So Speaker 1 (30:17):The last one is be still Psalm 46, 10 says, Be still and know that I am God, I will be exalted among the nations. I will be exalted in the earth. I also wanted to share, this isn't in the notes, Aaron, but you shared on Sunday a really cool picture of being silent before God. You're teaching through revelation right now. And just the importance of being, still being quiet, uh, and, and finding a secure place in your relationship with God where you can have peace mm-hmm. in that stillness and not freaking out, not worrying, not complaining, not being discontent, but just still. Speaker 2 (30:57):Yeah. And it, it, so Revelation chapter eight, verse one and two, I think it says that when the seven seal was open, So when, when Jesus the Lamb opens the seven seal of this scroll, it says that all of heaven was silent for about a half hour. Which is, I think, I always think it's funny that it throws in like for 30 minutes. It was quiet. Um, but the power of that was the, we don't, it doesn't say why they were silent, but I was imagining that they were waiting for God. They were waiting for, because that's, I mean, this, this scrolls open and, and that's what being still and being silent does. There's ano there was another verse I was gonna bring in here. When Moses goes and tells the Israelites, he says, God's going to save you. All you have to do is be silent and just watch mm-hmm. , the Red Sea was on one side, the Egyptians soldiers were on the other side. They had no way out. There was no, they had, their plans were just, we were gonna die. That was their plan. We're dead. And God's plan was, No, I'm gonna do, I'm gonna, I'm gonna save you mm-hmm. , and here's how I'm gonna do it. And Moses just says, Hey, you just gotta be quiet. Mm-hmm. and wait, and God's gonna do it. Speaker 1 (32:17):Yeah. For a lot of people listening right now, they might be literally right now in situations where they may not feel like they're gonna die, but maybe they feel like they're facing the impossible they're facing mm-hmm. things that are so hard and they can't even wrap their head around like, how am I gonna get out of this? How, how am I gonna get my family to a better place? Or how am am I gonna respond to these circumstances around me changing when it wasn't part of the plan? Speaker 2 (32:45):Yep. Speaker 1 (32:46):And even still, we can be quiet, silent, calm still, and at peace before the Lord. Speaker 2 (32:56):I just was thinking how f how interesting and funny it is. None of us plan hardship. None of us plan detours. None of us plan. Like, if, if it was all my plan, like there would only ever be success and comfort, and I would never, I would never put into the, to the itinerary a flat tire. Speaker 1 (33:18):No way. Speaker 2 (33:19):I would never put into the itinerary a broken arm or, uh, you know, you, you name the, the, the hardship. We would only ever plan good things and, and comfortable things and easy things and successful things, which would sanctify nothing. We would only ever get what we want. And so I, I just, I was just thinking when I was thinking about plans, like our plans would only ever benefit us and, but God is so much bigger than our plan, our plans mm-hmm. because he has other things in mind, like our character and also the character of those around us. You know, my, my, uh, my being fired from a job could be a blessing for someone who's been praying for a job. I would never plan that, but then my plan would disregard this other person that God cares about and loves also. Speaker 1 (34:10):Are you saying we should start planning hardship? Speaker 2 (34:12):No, I'm just like, I'm just saying we would never would . So, Speaker 1 (34:15):Uh, when we were filling out the notes for today's episode, and, uh, I saw that you had these three points. I wanted to add one in here, but it made me think of, um, , this meme that keeps going around from friends where it's Ross carrying the couch and it says pivot, pivot, pivot, pivot . And, um, I was just thinking how important it is for us to be, I used the word flexible earlier, but to embrace change and to have margin for God to step in and say, Nope, I'm gonna redirect you. . Speaker 2 (34:50):Yeah. It's the difference of like gripping so hard on your life. Like I'm not, I don't want it to move out of, you know, where it's at. You stay like this and being loose and free, Speaker 1 (35:02):Open-handed. Yeah. Yeah. Because we're not in control. Speaker 2 (35:07):You might think you are . Do, do you think you're Speaker 1 (35:09):In control? I, I want to be sometimes. Um, sometimes I like control . There was another meme myself. Sorry. I'm always, I feel like I talk in memes these days. Speaker 2 (35:21):Well, we're the generation of memes. Okay. We learn everything through memes. So Speaker 1 (35:24):This is a good one. It's, it was very like just pencil line drawings and it said, uh, my plan and it was a straight line from A to B. And then it said, but what God's plan looks like. And it was like all these scribbling like Speaker 2 (35:37):Scribbles circles and spirals Speaker 1 (35:38):And uh Yeah. Look like a little obstacle course Speaker 2 (35:41):As people, which is so much truer because we are such simple people, simple creatures. Like all we can imagine is like, no, it's just straight to the let's just here to here. Yeah. And we win Yay and God's like, Man, I have so much more that he's, he contemplates all things. Speaker 1 (35:58):When you put it in terms like that, it makes me think that when I'm like, Hey Aaron, will you build me a chicken coop? And then like two weeks later and a few mistakes and frustrated attitudes and not enough wood and all Speaker 2 (36:11):Those things, you should post a picture of it. The coop. Speaker 1 (36:14):We're getting closer every day. Speaker 2 (36:16):It's like close to halfway done. Speaker 1 (36:18):I'm proud of you . Okay, I have a question. Um, how do you know, how do you, okay, when you're going about your life and you've made these plans and things are going and then things change, the circumstance change. How do you know that it's God's plan versus your plan? Or that it's not just happenstance? How do, like when you're sitting in the car and you've got that message from Hobby Lobby, how do you not, how, how do you not respond and go, uh, , Speaker 2 (36:51):I did do that. Uh, Speaker 1 (36:53):But how do, but how do you then so quickly say, God, I trust you. Okay. If this is what it's gonna be, How do you give him the credit and say, Well this is your plan. I think are, you get in that mindset. Speaker 2 (37:05):I might ruffle some feathers with this concept, but there's, I feel like there's some misconceptions about God's will or not will or God's plan or not his plan. Um, so because there, there's ways we evaluate it. Okay. Sometimes we, we do it this way. Like if God opens a door, Speaker 1 (37:25):Right? Okay. He's open and shut a door. Speaker 2 (37:27):Yeah. Yeah. He shut this door and he opened that door. Yeah. Okay. I'm not saying that he doesn't ever do that, that he doesn't work that way. But if that's our way of evaluating, there's been times in our lives that there's been many doors open. Yeah. Then how do you know? Speaker 1 (37:42):Well, we came to the conclusion that he would let us walk through anyone Speaker 2 (37:45):That was Yeah. That was one of 'em. But what if all the doors had closed, then are you saying, Well then he just hasn't yet shown me his, Well what if his will is not that direction at all? Like, if, if we simplify how we know God's will or way, um, there, there's these, I think we've oversimplified trying to navigate what is God's point for it. Yeah. Deciphering it. But when I, and I, I think there are sometimes that he makes things very clear, but I think God's given us more instruction in his word, on how we're just to be and respond in life. Speaker 1 (38:27):So without labeling, this is from God, this isn't, or this is my plan, this is his. You're just saying how we respond to any situation matters. Speaker 2 (38:35):Yeah. Because, uh, you just talked about, you know, how we respond or, uh, this is from God and this isn't often, you know, just how I, we would never plan hardship. Mm-hmm. often when something good happens that's from God, Oh, this good thing, this blessing, this is from God. But you know what, you know, also gives good things the devil. Yeah. The devil offered so many good things to Jesus. That's Speaker 1 (38:56):True. Speaker 2 (38:57):Tempted him is what it was called. And Jesus said, Yeah, that may be true, but this is also true. And use scripture right back at the devil to, to get to God's actual will, not his, um, out of context will. And so I think there's this, there's dangers in oversimplifying, like, well, this door opened, like, okay, well lots of doors could open. We could pursue something hard enough and get what we want. This happens all the time. The Bible actually even talks about this and how we can pursue something long enough. Eventually God's gonna just give it to us. He's like, Okay, I don't want you to have it, but you haven't stopped going for that thing. So here now it's yours. Let's see how that works out. Now I'm the way I'm talking, I don't know if God talks that way. So don't I'm not, I don't wanna characterize God that way, but, but we should be careful because we could want something bad enough and then get that thing and then attribute it to God and say, See, God wanted me to have this also. Mm-hmm. , but that's may not be the case. God's a gentleman and he's not gonna just impose himself on us. Again, I'm probably gonna ruffle some for feathers, but I just, I just think sometimes we've, we're, we're, we're looking for something clearer when God's just looking for obedience. Speaker 1 (40:16):Mm. That's really Speaker 2 (40:17):Good. We're like, God, which way? Like, well, how are you gonna, what's your attitude? Speaker 1 (40:20):Yeah. Right now, everything he talks about with attitude, the, the posture of your heart, uh, character, Speaker 2 (40:25):How we treat Speaker 1 (40:26):People, how we treat people, like everything's in his word. That we need to be equipped to handle any circumstance or any situation. And Speaker 2 (40:33):That's what the Bible even teaches us, is that the, the word of God is sufficient Yeah. For those things. So even though you may think, well, the word of God doesn't tell me which job to take. You're right. It doesn't, Speaker 1 (40:44):But it tells you how to be a good steward of your job. Speaker 2 (40:48):Yeah. Well, and also how to, to pursue. And it talks about the, the, the, the needfulness of work and that we should all, like, men should be working and working Speaker 1 (40:57):To the Speaker 2 (40:57):Lord, do all things into the Lord. So when we say like, Well, how do you know something's from the Lord? Well, well, God's going to use all of our circumstances to, for our own Speaker 1 (41:10):Good us Yeah. And to glorify Him. Speaker 2 (41:12):So Right. I, I i it almost as futile to say, Oh, that car accident was from the devil, but you don't know. God wants to use it for his glory and for your good, whatever the circumstance. And so I, I don't, again, I I could be wrong, there's probably people disagreeing there right now, but I don't know if the point should be finding out like, is this in God's plan or my plan versus am I walking in the spirit with God? Speaker 1 (41:45):Can we just say this? Can we say, I am God's plan? Like I know that he planned for me to exist and Speaker 2 (41:52):Yeah. You are a part of his plan. That's a good point. Mm. Yeah. But it's, I think at the end of our time, he wants to know, did we trust him? Did we walk with him? Did we abide in him and his word. Mm-hmm. , that's what he wants. Yeah. So Speaker 1 (42:09):That's good. Another proverbs, you uh, kind of mentioned the first half of it earlier. Proverbs 1921 says, Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the Lord that will stand Speaker 2 (42:22):So . It says right there, the purpose of the Lord will stand. So that that could be lots of things. So something to think about right there, , Speaker 1 (42:33):I put a little note on here that God is merciful and kind and he uses thing all things for good and for his glory. Speaker 2 (42:41):Yeah. Speaker 1 (42:42):And you kind of already mentioned that, Speaker 2 (42:46):And I, I don't get this out of nowhere. It's from things I've read in the word. So like if you go back to Rejo, which the story of Job is intentional actually the the oldest known manuscript. So it's technically the oldest chap, uh, story in the Bible. Um, and God's or Job says, I might A, receive only the good from God and not also the evil. And that, that term evil just means like the good and the bad. And like I Speaker 1 (43:13):Already had a really good conversation about this cuz I was reading Joe another time separate from you. And I came to that and I was like, Aaron, what does this mean? Why does it say ? Speaker 2 (43:22):Well, and it's, it's true like that. Like you, you can name any story like you think No, God doesn't ever do that, but like God crushed Jesus. Yeah. And it, and the Bible says that it pleased to do that because it means our salvation, Speaker 1 (43:37):His purpose. Speaker 2 (43:38):Yeah. So we can't just look at our life and say all these bad things that happen are not from God. Mm-hmm. and all the good things that happen are from God because they're very well may be things, some things that are good, that seem good in our life mm-hmm. that are actually, they end up being bondage to us. They end up being things that distract us from the truth or from the Bible calls sin and wealth and a few other things. Deceitful, they, they trick us. So those things may seem good, but I think what God wants is us to discern all things mm-hmm. and to seek him and test. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 1 (44:15):Something I really love is, is hearing other people's stories of how they've had plans for one thing, but got something completely different. But in their testimony, they're praising God for it. Like they, they recognize and they see his hand at work mm-hmm. and they know that they can trust him. And when you hear these stories and people sharing them, I don't know about you, but I just, I get so fired up. I love it. Um, and so I wrote a couple of just examples here, like people getting pregnant later in life Speaker 2 (44:43):Yeah. When they totally were not planning to get pregnant later in life, Speaker 1 (44:46):But Yeah. Or maybe they were wanting to get pregnant for a really long time and couldn't and then got pregnant. I just think those are awesome. Uh, a business venture becoming very successful. Or on the other hand, a business venture completely failing. But we had Speaker 2 (45:01):A few of those. Speaker 1 (45:01):But there's good. Yeah. But they see the good in it. Uh, job changes or having to move mm-hmm. Speaker 2 (45:08):, we, we've, we've experienced a lot of these either personally in our own life, but we've also had a lot of friends that, the power that I see, the testimony I see of Jesus is when I see someone going through something that you would not have wished on anyone they did not ask for, and you just think, Wow, how did you go through that? Mm-hmm. . And they come on on the other side saying, Well, God's good. Mm-hmm. , and look what he did in this mm-hmm. . And all I think is like, you're making me wanna just praise God. That's what God wants. Mm-hmm. . So if you were to just kind of like switch all that around and look at him and be like, Well you must have did something wrong or God, you know, that must have not have been from God, This is from this other, like, you're just taking away from what God is actually trying to do, which is get, get glory for himself. (45:59):. Cuz God is a jealous guy. He wants to share his glory with no one else. And he wants to do it in his people. He wants us to love him and trust him and follow him. And, and all you gotta do is read the Bible for a little bit of time to find out that not every story is an easy one. Mm-hmm. is like this straight path to the throne. Mm-hmm. , you know, you think of, uh, is it Joseph the code of many colors? Yeah. Just read that entire story. You're like, man, he he was on the throne, you know, second only to Pharaoh saved his family and all the people after decades Yeah. Of being enslaved and imprisoned and sold and pain. Like something you would not ever want. J this is the, this is how life is, is we think one way. And, and God's got a big picture. He's developing and doing something through. Speaker 1 (46:54):That's good. Um, I have another verse that I wanna share, but I have a question about it. So it was a verse that I saw a lot growing up on, You know, we had this bookstore called Brands and I mean, it was plastered on every sort of product you could consume or give. It's probably the Speaker 2 (47:11):Most second most well known verse. Yeah. Speaker 1 (47:13):So well known. But then there was a season more recently where people were like, You gotta stop using that verse because it's not about us, it's about them, the Israelites. And so I'm, I'm just asking for your, for you to share about it  Speaker 2 (47:28):Jeremiah 29 11 before I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil to give you a future and hope. So yes, this is a promise that God gives to the Israelites, but it is also a promise he gives to his people to church because it shows up in other places, in other ways. He does have plans for us to give us a hope and a future. And that plan was Jesus . So his plans for welfare and not evil is salvation. Mm-hmm. is, uh, the, the wrath that's coming on the world because of wickedness, because of sin has been a tone for in Jesus Christ. So I think it is foolish to take this verse and say this, this is one of the verses that brings that, that preconception of good things. Um, when good things happen, they must be from the Lord. (48:19):Mm-hmm. . And the other verse would be, all good gifts come from the father of lights come from from heaven. We take those verses and we use 'em to say like, Oh, all this stuff, this is all God and all this stuff is all not God. But what this is saying is that the, the plans that God has declared are plans of salvation. And so we can use this verse and say, No, His, his plan isn't for your destruction. He wishes that none should perish, but all should come to the knowledge of Jesus Christ. Mm-hmm. , that's his plan. Yeah. It's welfare. It's that you would be with him forever. Speaker 1 (48:53):Yeah. I think what I came to terms with in accepting this versus and receiving it myself is just that it reveals God's heart. Like it reveals his mm-hmm. character and his, uh, his love. Speaker 2 (49:06):And it does. Yeah. And what's sad is they kept turning the hearts from him over and Speaker 1 (49:11):Over again. I know. As do we send. So, Okay. So, uh, we also have on here Ephesians two 10, which says, for we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. So this is an encouragement, again, just we've shared it so many times, but just to, uh, to be, to, to walk in the works that he's already prepared for us. Like he's already known what he has Speaker 2 (49:41):For us. And so whether that, you know, is how you respond to the gas station when you see the gas prices or, um, it's not funny. Speaker 1 (49:49):You should not be laughing about that. Speaker 2 (49:51):Or, or how you treat a waitress at a restaurant. Like, so when we, when we try and think like, well what's the, what's God's plans for my life? His plan is that you walk in the good works that he's prepared beforehand Yeah. For you to walk in. Speaker 1 (50:04):That's what I was trying to say. Yeah. Speaker 2 (50:06):, you said it perfect. Speaker 1 (50:07):No, . No, I didn't. Uh, you're funny. You, Okay. And then the other one is Philippians one six, and I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. Speaker 2 (50:20):Hmm. Yeah. So he, we just, our goal should just be to, we want to keep putting one foot in front of the other for Christ. We say, Okay, Lord, like I may not be able to see far enough ahead, but I I could definitely see the foot in front of me, and so will you help me put that foot in front of the other? Will you help me? Uh, and when we trip, we, we let him pick us back up and we do it again. Mm-hmm. , we keep going. Uh, we put this last note, um, and it, it's something just to encourage us because we have all these ideas in our, our hearts. We have all these plans. We, we, we wanna do this, we wanna do that. Uh, first, I I I, I pray that everyone that's listening has a heart that whatever they're doing, that they would do it for the Lord. Mm-hmm. . Whether that's working at the bank or working at McDonald's, Speaker 1 (51:12):Or how you operate in your Speaker 2 (51:13):Marriage, or how you operate in your marriage, or how you raise your children or how you talk to your neighbors, that we would do it for the Lord. But the second thing I wanted to just encourage you with is that though we have all these plans and we have this way that like, we're trying to like orchestrate our life to some extent. That's what everyone's trying to do, is realizing that there are plans that God has that we don't know about. Plans for us, plans for our character and our growth and our sanctification. Plans for our children. Plans for your neighbors. Plans for your friends. That he's, he's working out just like we write in Philippians one, six. He's working it out. That's Speaker 1 (51:52):Exciting. Speaker 2 (51:53):Well, and it should, There's Speaker 1 (51:54):Thrill in Speaker 2 (51:55):That. And there's also a, a mystery to be found. Mm-hmm. like, Okay, Lord, what, what is it that you want for me today? And not to convolute it, Like I was just talking about what those like, Well, what doors are opening and closing. Like that could be a way God does this, but I think it's simpler. God, what, How do you want me to walk today with my words, with my actions, with my attitude, with my resources, with my time, with my energy. And I think that usually when you are walking in, that you begin to start you, you begin to walk in his steps. Mm-hmm. . Like I ju if I'm just thinking about my kids when I do that, I'm more like Jesus to my kids. , which is God's will for my life. That's what he wants me to be that way. (52:44):Uh, when I'm not that way, I'm not walking in his plan. Uh, the last verse, I I, I think about it is, um, in First John, it tells us if we're going to walk in the spirit, then we must also keep in step with the Spirit. And so if we're gonna walk in the spirit, then we must also keep in step with the spirit. What that means is that we're not directing the spirit of God. The Spirit of God directs us. And so if we're gonna walk in the spirit of God, then we gotta follow the spirit of God. Where is he going? What's he doing and why? Speaker 1 (53:21):That's good. That's really good. . I'm encouraged. Speaker 2 (53:26):Cool. Why don't you give 'em our weekly challenge and then pray. Speaker 1 (53:30):So when we were in youth group and we served as youth leaders, we would do these random acts of kindness for our community with the kids. Speaker 2 (53:38):What were they called? Speaker 1 (53:40):Wasn't it random acts of kindness? Speaker 2 (53:41):Yeah, but wasn't there a acronym for it? It wasn't Rogue Speaker 1 (53:47):. . It was risk. Speaker 2 (53:50):Risk, Yes. But random. We called it Random Acts of Senseless Kindness, which I don't, that's Speaker 1 (53:56):Not, that's still not that's R is random. Is it incidences? ? It's random. Speaker 2 (54:02):We called it risk. Speaker 1 (54:03):Yeah, we did. That Speaker 2 (54:04):Doesn't make any sense. . We'll figure it out after we get done with the podcast, probably. Speaker 1 (54:09):Anyways, Speaker 2 (54:09):Random incidences of senseless kindness, maybe Speaker 1 (54:14):Instances. Speaker 2 (54:15):No, no. I'm gonna have to, we're gonna have to call up our old youth Pastor , find out with, we call it anyways. Speaker 1 (54:21):We call it risk, but it, anyways, Random acts of kindness, uh, for the community. So this week, our challenge for you is to outdo your spouse with kindness. So random acts of kindness. You, here are some ideas. Okay. You can make them coffee in the morning. You can race to clean the kitchen after dinner. Speaker 2 (54:40):Some people make their spouse coffee every morning. I know. I'm thinking of someone specifically, and if he's listening, Speaker 1 (54:46):You're a winner. Speaker 2 (54:47):I got Speaker 1 (54:48):You. You're special . Uh, you can clean out your spouse's car or all the cars that you have. Um, what else, Aaron? Speaker 2 (54:57):Well, this is what's awesome is they get to be Speaker 1 (54:59):Creative. Oh, they get to be creative. Yeah. Speaker 2 (55:00):Okay. Um, I'm gonna add a layer two to this challenge. Oh no. Is that they as a couple would do a random act of kindness for someone else. One of their neighbors maybe. Or anyone. Or friends. Yeah. Friend. Speaker 1 (55:11):That's good. So, so outdo each other with some random act of kindness and then together do a random act of kindness. Speaker 2 (55:20):Yeah, Go for it. Challenge Speaker 1 (55:22):Accepted. Yeah. For me anyways. gonna do it. Okay. I'm gonna pray for us. Dear Lord, Thank you for leading us so well. Thank you for looking after us and using our experiences and circumstances to mature us. We pray we would embrace your plans for our marriage and be more flexible to your will. We pray we would not get hung up or disappointed when our ideal plans do not happen in our timing. Please help our hearts to trust in you. Please comfort our hearts and give us peace to our minds when we start to worry. We pray. We would submit our plans to you and allow you room to change them no matter what. We pray we would be on the same page in marriage, eager to serve you and fulfill your will together we pray You would give us a vision that would help us understand where you are taking us on this journey of life. And help us to discard the plans in our hearts that will never come to be. We pray we would be okay with letting go and trusting you in every detail. We praise you and we thank you for having plans for us, and we pray we would please you as we choose to honor you and chase after your purpose for our life together. In Jesus name, amen. (56:28):Thank you for joining us for another episode of the Marriage After God podcast. Speaker 2 (56:32):If you found today's episode fun and encouraging, please take a moment to share it on social media or in an email to some of your married friends. Speaker 1 (56:37):Also, would you please take a moment and leave us a review, reviews help to spread the word about our podcast. Speaker 2 (56:43):Be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode, and you can always check out more of our resources@marriageaftergod.com. Speaker 1 (56:48):You can follow us on social media from more marriage encouragement on Facebook and Instagram at marriage after God at Husband Revolution, and at Unveiled Wife. Speaker 2 (56:57):We hope you have an incredible week and look forward to sharing more with you next week on The Marriage After God podcast, Speaker 3 (57:02):La la la.   Connect With UsInstagram | @marriageaftergodInstagram | @unveiledwifeInstagram | @husbandrevolutionCheck out our marriage resources!SponsorsGet our new book The Marriage Gift - 365 prayers for your marriage!Our Sponsors:* Check out Mr. Pen and use my code MAG10 for a great deal: https://mrpen.comSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/marriage-after-god-biblical-advice-practical-tips-and-inspiring-/donations

TAKE THE FREE MARRIAGE PRAYER CHALLENGEmarriageprayerchallenge.com Jennifer (00:10):Hi, and welcome to the Marriage After God podcast. Aaron (00:12):We're your host Aaron and Jennifer Smith. Jennifer (00:14):We have been married 15 years and have five sweet children who are growing up way too fast. Aaron (00:18):We love God and we love marriage, Jennifer (00:20):And we love to be honest about it all. Aaron (00:22):Marriage is not always a walk in the park, but we do believe it has a powerful purpose. Jennifer (00:26):So our goal here is to open up the conversation to talk about our faith and our marriage, Aaron (00:30):Especially in light of the gospel. Jennifer (00:32):We certainly don't have all the answers, but if you stick around, we may just make you laugh. Aaron (00:36):But our hope is to encourage you to chase boldly after God's purpose for your life together. Jennifer (00:40):This is Marriage after God. Speaker 3 (00:45):Hey Aaron (00:46):Everybody. Welcome back to another episode of The Marriage After God podcast. We're your hosts back at it. Jennifer (00:52):Be at Aaron (00:53):It. Be bag at it. Bag. Got it. . B bag. Get it. Jennifer (00:56):Oh, back at it. Back Aaron (00:57):At it. Here we go. Uh, . Today we're gonna be talking about discussing friendships. That Jennifer (01:05):Was kind of redundant. Aaron (01:05):I know talking about and discussing are both similar things, but we are, we're gonna talk about that, you know, cultivating deep friendships, the necessity of friendships. Also how it can be difficult in our relationships with our friends, um, but how it's all part of the process. And so that's what we're talking about today. Jennifer (01:22):This episode is brought to you by our free 30 day Marriage Prayer Challenge. Simply go to marriage prayer challenge.com to sign up and it's completely free. Over 130,000 husbands and wives have already taken this challenge. Join now and every day you'll receive an email with some scripture and a prompt free for a specific area to pray for your spouse. Just go to marriage prayer challenge.com and sign up today. Aaron (01:46):So we're, um, talking about friends. Jennifer (01:50):We love friends. Aaron (01:52):We have friends. Jennifer (01:53):We've had a lot of different friends over the years, just thinking about all the many places in the world we've been, We Aaron (01:59):Have friends in several countries, and, uh, of course we, we don't see all of them all the time, , but, uh, we have friends in a lot of states too. Jennifer (02:09):Yeah, I feel like I'm really grateful for all the opportunities we've had to cultivate friendships at different times throughout our marriage. And it just kind of blows my mind, Aaron. It's like no matter where we've been, no matter how long, like how long or how short of a time we've been in that place mm-hmm. , God has provided real friendships, deep friendships, but it was up to us to make the choice to invest into those relationships and what they would be like. Aaron (02:36):Yeah, I agree. I we've had many re relationships that we've had to invest in. Uh, but I also feel like that God's used all of those relationships, probably the, the most in our life to, to grow us, to mature us, to point out areas that God wanted us to change in. Um, so not only did we have the benefit of those friends for our joy and that closeness and connection, but also for our spiritual growth and maturity. Jennifer (03:01):Yeah, I totally agree with you. And I think that that happened because of the time we chose to invest into those relationships. And, um, you know, even when hard times came or challenges came, we, we used those opportunities to press on in love and to do our best to cultivate those relationships. And we weren't perfect at it. We, I feel like we're , we're kind say that a lot in every aspect of our life, but it's true. There were mistakes that we made at times. There were things we probably could have done to make friendships easier, you know? Yeah. Aaron (03:35):Or just being better friends in general. Jennifer (03:38):, just like in marriage when when you're in close proximity to another person, and there's sometimes that friction, you know, when our flesh just gets kind of like agitated. That's stickiness. Yeah. Uh, so anyways, that happens. But I feel like nostalgic, just thinking about our friendships over the years and all the laughs, the cries, the pranks we've done together, the catch phrases we've had, the adventures, the games, the games, Aaron (04:04):The staying up late, Jennifer (04:05):The hot tubs, the jacuzzi times discussions we've had. I mean, I'm just, I'm feeling very grateful for all of the different relationships that we've had. Aaron (04:15):Yeah. This topic actually, uh, came up from one of our friends. Mm-hmm. I was at, I went to Portland with a friend to go pick up a part for his tractor or something like that. And I was like, Hey, we need an idea for a topic. And he is like, Huh? He's like, Why don't you talk about like, relationships and friendships and like, how, how awesome they are, but how hard they are and how, And then we just started writing out, I was writing out all these notes and texting him to Jennifer while we were driving Jennifer (04:38):. So thank you, Cody. I know you're listening. Uh, Cody and his wife Stacy and all of their children, we have been good friends with them for almost nine years now. And it's one of those, like, it feels like family. Aaron (04:49):All of our kids have been like friends with their born together almost, and then have been growing up together. Jennifer (04:54):And our goal is to like grow together and live next door. So we're working on that.  Aaron (05:00):Isn't that everyone's goal? They just want to have like this, like small community with all their friends living of, of course, every, you know, down the street. Jennifer (05:06):I don't know if everyone feels like that, but it's a good goal. Aaron (05:09):Yeah. All those introverts out there, like Yeah. Right. . Jennifer (05:12):Well, we thought we would just kind of ask each other a couple of questions about friendship and get the, the conversation started. And Aaron (05:20):I like, I actually like this format because when I've been, I was praying about this episode today and I was thinking, Man, I don't feel like I've gotta handle a grasp on this idea of like being a good friend. It's something that I'm constantly learning. And Fri friendships are hard at times, especially when you, you allow yourself to be so close. So I like that we're gonna be asking these questions, and I just want everyone that's listening to know our heart is to, again, we always to encourage you and to remind you that you're not alone. That God has plans for us and that he desires us to grow in, in oneness and unity with his body of the church. And so, hopefully just us going back and forth answering some questions, you glean something out of it. Jennifer (06:00):And my encouragement to you guys listening would be if you, uh, already have strong friendships in your life, our hope would be that this episode just inspires you with some creative ways to, uh, engage in your friendships and, and cultivate them in deep ways. And if you're listening and you already are thinking like, Man, I really want that. I want a deep friendship. I want, uh, friendship, like friendships of married couples where, you know, you and your spouse are friends with another couple, um, our heart and prayer is just that, that God would provide that for you and that you would be willing to invest in mm-hmm. those friendships and so all around. Yeah. We just hope that this is a good episode that encourages you. Aaron (06:42):All right. So let's get, we have some questions here, and then we'll just go back and forth. All right. Let's do it. So the, here I'll ask you the first question. Okay. What did friendship look like for you growing up? Jennifer (06:53):Well, I come from a big family and like my family's families were even bigger. And so I had a lot of aunts and uncles, a lot of cousins. Friendship for our family was our family. Like, there wasn't a lot of outside friendship. We were all friends with each other. And so as I grew up and I was going to school, like I started building friendships a little bit later mm-hmm. , like junior high, high school. Um, but yeah, that's kind of what it like most like hangout time or events, Everything was surrounded around our big family Aaron (07:25):. But you had a, you had a few core friends growing up. Yeah. Yep. Jennifer (07:30):Yeah. Like two, three girlfriends that I was close to. Yeah. I think maybe a few more than that. Aaron (07:34):I think it was, um, very similar for me. I had, um, not in the fr the family or actually opposite, um, we saw Yeah. Jennifer (07:42):Your family was, had a lot of friends. Aaron (07:44):Yeah. Our family had a lot of friends, and we saw our direct family periodically throughout the year. And so I saw a different example mm-hmm. . Um, but I had a, I feel like I had, I had two really good friends growing up. Um, and I'm no longer like that close with them anymore. We just, we've moved on. But that was my kind of experience was I just had a couple that we did everything Jennifer (08:08):, and really quickly I'll share, and I think I speak for both of us. We both had a desire when we were, you know, 18, 19, 20 to marry our best friend. And so when we met and started building our friendship, Aaron, we, we cultivated it knowing that we were moving towards marriage and there was this really beautiful aspect to our friendship, knowing that we were gonna be friends in marriage and I don't know about you. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Even now, I feel like you're Aaron (08:34):My best friend friends first. Yeah. And it never changed. I feel like you are my best friend. Yeah. Jennifer (08:38):Good . Awesome. All right. Well, the next question is, what was your desire for friendship? So going back to childhood or growing up times. Like what, what did you seek in a friendship? What did you want? Aaron (08:52):Uh, I think that, so friendship was one of those things where I just could, could go be me and hang out with that person that I enjoyed being around. Mm-hmm. . And it was like a, it was a get outta my house, go to their house, whole new environment. Yeah. And Jennifer (09:05):Eat their snacks and their Aaron (09:06):Cap. They always had. Oh, that's like, they, they always had snacks. Jennifer (09:09):My friends always had better snacks than like, That's true. More Aaron (09:12):Like moon pies, Jennifer (09:13):. What? That's, that's them good. Sorry. I loved them. Aaron (09:16):No, I didn't have moon pies in my house. No. Uh, so my desire for friendship I think was more of like, just kind of escape, having my own my own zone. And my friends were that zone. Jennifer (09:27):I can't stop thinking about how gross moon pies are, but you know, it's good. oatmeal pies. It's Aaron (09:31):Gram crackers, chocolate and marshmallows. Jennifer (09:33):What's that gonna, I don't know. There's something about it, but oatmeal pies are really good. Okay. See's good to have differences in friendships. See, Yeah. so that only one person is eating all the moon pies. . Aaron (09:44):What was your desire for friendship? What did, was there something there? Oh, Jennifer (09:47):I'm serious again. Yeah, I'm getting back to it. Um, I really desired to have, uh, a closeness in relationship where you can share deep thoughts or, uh, experiences together. You know, go do things together, which I often did with my girlfriends, so I appreciated that. Yeah. Aaron (10:04):So some of these questions will, those are, these are kind of like, been past like, ways of viewing friendship, but the friendship we're talking about now goes beyond what we kind of used to experience it like in junior high, high school, like grade school. But we're talking about deep relationship mm-hmm. , friendship. Mm-hmm. , you know, with other believers. Uh, so what has been the greatest thing about those kinds of friendships? Jennifer (10:28):Can you answer that first ? Sure. Aaron (10:30):Uh, I, I would say I, I love, I love having friends who know me, who love me. Um, and that, that means they, they share with me things that they see weak, like weaknesses they see in me. Mm-hmm. , but also they, they just enjoy me mm-hmm. and want to be around me. And, um, and I, those are, those are really cool things. Yeah. Jennifer (10:55):So there's two things that come to mind for me. The first thing is when you're known by a friend, special things happen. So they get you your favorite drink at random times or they'll, you know, they just, they know you so well that they tune in to who you are and what you like. And that makes you feel loved and special and like, thought of, which I really appreciate in friendship. Yeah. And the other thing is spontaneity. So, you know, just the random, Hey, what are you doing for dinner? Come over and not really even needing to make a plan. That makes me feel like our, our friendship is so close because there's the reliance upon each other and like a camaraderie of let's do this thing together. Even if it's short notice. I don't know why. I just love that. Aaron (11:37):Okay. So we talked about the greatest thing and there's lot, probably lots of things we could talk about, like how great it's to have a good friend. But what's a hard thing about these kinds of friendships? Jennifer (11:48):The absolute hardest thing about friendship for me is conflict. And when I know that, that I've hurt someone or said the wrong thing, or wasn't very clear in a text message and I've made someone feel a certain way, negatively sense, Yeah. Sensitive sensitivity is that I really struggle with. Cuz I don't, I'm a, I, I want peace and I want love and I want joy and I don't want the hard stuff. And so when I'm confronted with the hard stuff and there needs to be a conversation or, you know, let's flesh this thing out, Even those, those things, even though those things are really good and God has his special way of working through us in those things. Mm-hmm. , it's really hard. Aaron (12:29):That's true. Um, I would agree. A an additional layer to it. Um, cuz I, I just, I don't, like, no one likes conflict. I know there's, Jennifer (12:37):Do you feel like you're okay with it? Like, uh, Aaron (12:40):I used to be a lot more like, Yeah, lets, let's argue and let's figure this stuff out. I don't like it at as much anymore. Um, uh, I think though there's a, there's a part of me cuz I, I have multiple friends and I don't like when there's conflict between my other friends and I have these friends and I'm like, do I, like, where do I lay in the middle of this? Oh, got. So I don't like that feeling. And so, but which is a, it's a good thing cuz then it caused me like, how can I participate in helping these friends mm-hmm. , which got you in that. That's good. Yeah. So, but I, I hate that. Yeah. It's just, it, I don't know if anyone is like, yay. You know, hard, hard times friends. Um, Jennifer (13:18):There's hard things about friendships. Yeah. All right. Uh, what is your initial reaction to conflict in friendship? Aaron (13:26):Uh, before I answer that, I feel like everyone's listening, these are probably what everyone is gonna relate to the most is these hard ones, which is kind of like, interesting to think about. Maybe I'm wrong, but, um, initial reaction to conflict. Uh, depending on the level of conflict. Cuz there's totally different gams. What's that? It's not even a word. I don't think. Uh, different like levels of conflict. Um, but when they're like hard conflicts, things that need to be dealt with, things that need to be flushed out and talked about. I think my first response is like, run away. Runaway. Maybe . Like, like I don't get that sense from you. I know, but I do, I feel like in this flesh it's like, I don't want to be here right now. I don't wanna have to deal with this. Why is this even here? Can Jennifer (14:12):I tell you what I think your initial response is? Sure. I feel like it's, Well, what does the Bible say? Well, what is God saying? Well, what, And you always Aaron (14:19):Bring it back. That's what I say out loud. inside though. I'm like trying to retreat into myself. But yes, Jennifer (14:25):I, the word that I thought for myself, initial reaction to conflict is escape. Like you said, runaway. Just this is too hard. Yeah. Which I think is normal. Aaron (14:35):It is. Cuz we, Jennifer (14:36):But not that we should do it, Aaron (14:37):It's, we want what, because really, we talked about this in a few episodes, a few episodes ago about living either in the past or constantly looking far ahead into the future mm-hmm. . And I feel like that retreat is, is less of a, I just want to escape the relationship, but more, more of a, I wanna run away to a time when this conflict didn't exist. Jennifer (14:55):Yeah. Like, can I have a time machine and go back? Aaron (14:57):Yeah. Can we, can we just like, just skip over this or go go back to where when it was like nice and comfortable and, and not hard. So I think, I think that's what the, that running feeling is. Yeah. That's my only, that's a guess. Okay. But, Jennifer (15:12):So why are friends important to you? Why do you keep 'em around? Aaron (15:15):Well, specifically speaking of this idea of friendships within the church, like walking in fellowship with other believers, um, it's, it's absolutely necessary. First of all, um, we can't, we can't be autonomous islands floating around. That's not what god, that's not what Jesus came to do is create a bunch of independent islands that float and he came to, to make a body, you know, and a bride. And so these friendships and the necessity of them and cultivating them and digging in and being transparent and working through the hard things mm-hmm. and, uh, it, they're just absolutely necessary in my opinion, to the body of Christ to us as individual believers. Jennifer (15:59):So you keep mentioning, you know, having friends within the fellowship and within, uh, you know, church settings. But we're also like, this also ties into having that friend that you, that like your best friend, like someone who's very close to you or another couple who you guys walk to together with like, Right. Like you're, It's all encompassing. Aaron (16:23):Yeah. There's, there's always gonna be, I feel like there's always gonna be like these, these circles and they, they kind of go out overlap. Yeah. And they overlap and, um, I feel like there's always gonna be probably that, that one or two friends that you feel the most comfortable going to, but often those are also the ones that end up having the hardest situations, I think cuz you're so close mm-hmm. and so intertwined. Um, but I think as a, as believers not just being, not, not just being satisfied, but not just saying that, Oh, I have my one friend and I don't need anyone else, Really, We need each, all everyone. And so learning to not just always lay the burden on that one friend or couple, but do doing that, making things known, but also knowing that we can go to others in the body Yeah. And, and use each other in a good way. Not a bad use, but, Jennifer (17:16):Well, the question is, why are friends important to you? And that's what I was gonna say is, uh, what did you just say before? You said use, I got thrown off of that. Go to going to each other and you know, just having that friend that you can text and say, Hey, I'm having a down day. I need prayer for this, this, and this. And so I think friendship is important because it's, uh, supporting one another through life. It's experiencing life together. And I think God created us to walk in a place of unity in those types of relationships. Mm-hmm. . And so, I don't know. I get really encouraged by having friends in my life that are close to me so that I can reach out to them and talk with them and be encouraged Yeah. By them and encourage them. Yeah. It's like a back and forth. Aaron (18:03):Well, and it's a, it's also important because it's one of the main ways that we practice being the church is to each other. Mm-hmm. , um, Jesus makes it very clear. And the, and the Bible itself makes it very clear that our unity, our oneness as a church, um, as a bride, as a body is a message to the world that says God sent Jesus and that Jesus rose from the dead. Mm-hmm. that like, that's what the Bible teachers. And so that, you know, our friend's important. Yes. It's not just that we have this, you know, surface level friend, we have deep real fellowship relationships mm-hmm. in the body of Christ to practice being Christ's body with. Jennifer (18:43):Okay. So what do you think makes you a really good friend? Aaron (18:47):Well, me personally, I am always a really good friend and, uh, actually contradicts exactly what I said in the beginning. That's why I'm learning how to be a good friend. . Um, what makes, Jennifer (18:56):Like, what, what's unique about Aaron? If I was gonna have a friendship with Aaron, what? Aaron (19:01):Oh, you literally wanna know what makes uniquely me a good friend. Yeah. Okay. Um, I think there's, I I have, if you were to ask the same question about like, the opposite of what makes me the bad Jennifer (19:13):Friend, that's the next question is, what makes you a difficult friend? , do you answer that? Didn't notice that. Do you wanna answer that one first? Aaron (19:19): Well, I was gonna say that I tie together, I have strengths and weaknesses. Okay. And some of my strengths when not used appropriately are my greatest weaknesses. And so I can be very strong and forward and, and, um, uh, what's the word? Uh, confident in my way of thinking. Mm-hmm. . But if I'm not careful, that comes off as arrogant and rude and I, and as if I'm not listening. I'm Jennifer, you've never experienced that in our marriage, have you? Mm-hmm. for me. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Probably not. Mm-hmm. , um, . But I, it comes off as as that. Um, but on the sa at the same time, that could, that's a, I think a, a good thing when I'm using it well Yeah. To exhort and to encourage and to remind my friends of the truth. Um, and I, Jennifer (20:08):I think that's accurate. Yeah. Aaron (20:10):There's another word, um, that I've always used is benefit of the doubt. Mm-hmm. is it, I've had seasons where I'm not that great at it, but giving the benefit of the doubt, trying to overlook offenses, trying to overlook, which has also gotten me in trouble. But that is something, like I said, greatest weakness, greatest strengths. Okay. I don't know, does that make sense? Is everyone listening? Like, Jennifer (20:30):Yeah, I get that. If I was gonna answer this, when you're kind, kind of tying those two things together. Greatest weakness and struggle. Mm-hmm. , what came to my mind is I feel like I'm a really thoughtful friend. Like I have all these thoughts of like, Oh, that this thing would make a really good gift. You are for my friend. Or Okay. But my weakness is sometimes those thoughts stay thoughts and I'm not very good. Aaron (20:52):They never come Jennifer (20:53):Out of you. Well, I'm not, I'm not so great at the execution of my thoughts and my intentions. And so sometimes maybe I think I'm sticking up. Aaron (21:02):You take the, it's the thought that counts to a whole new level. All I'm having is the thought . I'm Jennifer (21:07):Just kidding. There are times that I do follow through and those are really great times. And if I could do it more, I think that's, that would be a good thing. Uh, but yeah, that's mm-hmm. , I don't know. Yeah. Okay. Aaron (21:19):Yeah. And then there's times that you overthink, Jennifer (21:22):Oh wait, something overthink. Yeah. I should, Yeah. . That's so true. Okay, moving on. Do you like the one on one time or group time? So this would be like, Hey, I'm gonna go have coffee with my best friend. Or us as a couple are gonna go hang out with this couple, or this family's gonna hang out with our family. What do you like All the Aaron (21:41):Above? Jennifer (21:41):Yeah, I know you do. Aaron (21:42):So I can You love your friends. I like all of it. I like the one on one time. Like I said, I just got to go on a, a quick trip round trip with my friend Cody. And those are always really awesome times cuz we just get to talk and kind of download and vent and share and encourage and, and just remind each other of things that we've may have forgotten about, um, and in our lives. And um, so that's really good. Helps me. It's, that's, I feel like that's an easier, uh, thing to do. Mm-hmm. . Cause it's only engaging with one person. But I also just love group time and group conversations cause I'm there. Um, I usually get into trouble in the group times cause of the way I communicate. That's, Jennifer (22:22):I like all of it too. All the above. That's an easy answer. Aaron (22:24):You like the um, the one time when you get just me, just you  Jennifer (22:30):Two. I am my best friend. Yeah. No. Um, okay. What is your favorite thing to do together with friends? Aaron (22:37):Um, go to dinner. . I like eating good food with my friends. Jennifer (22:43):That's fun. Aaron (22:44):That's a real thing. I do Jennifer (22:45):. I like it when our friends come over for dinner cuz then all the kids just play and it's easy. Aaron (22:50):That's true. and I love it. And Jennifer (22:53):Also like, camping with friends. Aaron (22:54):You know what we, I remember we used to not like, we were so apprehensive about camping in the beginning , but we have, we've fallen in love with camping and it's so much fun with friends. Yeah. Jennifer (23:03):Because our kids are getting older too. Like our kids make it really fun. Aaron (23:05):Yeah. Cuz they go do fun things and get dirty and it's awesome. Yeah. So I just, I wanna get into this idea of like, do we even need these deep relational friendships that, that like this fellowship with one another, This idea of like, do we need that or is it okay to just have surface level relationships? Jennifer (23:24):Well, I'm gonna start with a verse Proverbs 1824 says, A man of many companions may come to ruin, but there's a friend who sticks closer than a brother. Aaron (23:33):Um, so you actually removed my other verse that was on here. I had two versions of this. Yeah. There was a, Jennifer (23:39):Maybe I left it down here. Aaron (23:41):Did you? Cuz I wanna read both of them Jennifer (23:43):Right here. Aaron (23:44):So this is the new, the new King James version of that same verse says, and I, I'm just surprised at how different they're, But there's a reason a man who has friends must himself be friendly, but there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother. Jennifer (23:59):Okay. That is way different. And I was, I was looking at this verse thinking, Okay, if I have too many friends then I'm gonna ruin everything. But if I have just like one or two close friends, then that'd be really good. So I was maybe reading into Aaron (24:13):This is, no, this is exactly why I wanted to share both versions of it. Cuz I was, I was trying to distinguish and understand why they're both there. Cuz they do sound so different. But they're not comp they're not contradictory. Yeah. What it's saying is that if a man of many companions may come to ruin this idea of you have a lot of people in your life, but no depth, you're, you're gonna come to ruin. And then the other version says, if you have friends, you must be friendly. The idea is like, how are you investing in these, not just companions, not just people that walk next to you, like you're, you know, let's go for a walk. But like people that you actually engage with. Um, and so I think both have a, it's, it's why it's a good reason to, to look into multiple versions of script of the Bible. It helps you get a bit more round idea of the, the topics. But they both essentially mean the same thing. You can't just have a bunch of people in your life that you have no relationship with. Those are just companions and you're, you actually are alone being deceived thinking you have friends, Jennifer (25:16):But, but the word friend, like that means something. It's special. Yeah. It's not just a neighbor, it's just, it's not just someone you know that you see every once in a while. Mm-hmm. Aaron (25:26):. Well, Jesus calls us his friends, he says, You're no longer servants, you're my friends. Mm-hmm. . And if you were servants, I wouldn't tell you, you know what I am discussing with my father, but since you're my friends, I share freely with you. Mm-hmm. , Jesus even displays this idea. Like when you, you're not just having this service level relationship, you're known, you're, you're opening up and being known and sharing mm-hmm. with one another. And so I would say we absolutely need deep friendships. Jennifer and I were kind of having a little back and forth on this in the beginning of like, our friendships actually necessary. And I, I think it's an absolute, like, I don't think you can do without it. Jennifer (26:09):And I was say in the church, I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was saying for the sake of our listeners, if there are people who for whatever reason, don't have deep friendships, I didn't want anyone to feel like, What do you mean they're necessary? You know, like I, I want, I want there to be understanding and love and peace and Well, Aaron (26:25):And I do understand that. And my heart would be that those people would long for that. Yeah. And find that and find that connection and, and be plugged in. Yeah. That's like a term that a lot of churches use. Be plugged in. What, what does that mean? Plugged into what? The body, the body of Christ. Um, First John, the, the majority of that, the first couple chapters of that is about how we love each other. And if we walk in the light, then we have fellowship with one another. And if we don't, then we're deceiving ourselves and we're liars. And the truth is not in us. Um, Jesus even he prays specifically for his, for the, for the disciples and for those who believe in his name, because of the disciples that we would be one just as Jesus and the Father are one. So you can't be one with the body and not have and, and not be friends with the body. (27:12):Mm-hmm. . You can't be one with the body and be a floating island that has no, no depth of relationship. No one knows you, no one gets to dig into your life and you dig into their life. That's, that's not, that's not reality. That's called a free radical. Like if we're thinking body, like when you have a cell that's just kind of moving around and not doing what it's supposed to do. Mm-hmm. . So I, I would say fr deep, deep friendships and relationships and fellowship in the body are absolutely, uh, and necessity. I'm sure there can, people can disagree with me, but that's my, my my feeling on this . Jennifer (27:46):Okay. Um, okay. Well, cultivating deep friendship is not an easy, uh, task. It's not, it's not, it doesn't come natural for all. So, you know, how do people do this? How do they cultivate a deep relationship? A friendship, Especially when, you know, it's not easy to relate to each other or there's differences. Aaron (28:10):Yeah. I, It's hard. . I think, uh, I think the first thing we need to recognize is that if we're going into frien, if we're looking for friendships for merely what I'm going to get out of it. Jennifer (28:23):Yeah. Like, is this person gonna benefit me? Bless me, serve me, love Aaron (28:27):Me. Yeah. They, they match my personality. They're in my same life stage, which those are good things and those help create friendships. But if all you're looking for is they make me feel comfortable. They, they bless me when I'm around them. I feel good. Which I'm not saying those are bad things, but if that's all we're looking for, the moment that changes what happens mm-hmm. , you're gonna assume, well, this is no longer for Jennifer (28:49):Me. Or if you meet someone that has the potential to be a close friend, but you put up a wall because it's immediately difficult or there's differences or, Aaron (28:58):Or you're afraid of difficulty or different, like you're defen, you're defensive against them, then you'll never, I don't wanna be hurt. Jennifer (29:04):Yeah. Then you'll never know or invest in that potential relationship. Aaron (29:09):Yeah. I think about Jesus and he invited 12 men to follow him for three years. They eight, slept, laughed, worked, traveled, fought . Yeah. Uh, ran from mobs, prayed over. People saw miracles. One of those men was Judas. Jesus invited Judas knowing full well who he was and what was gonna take place in his heart. And I think sometimes we, if all we have is a selfish motivation of our friendships, then there's always gonna be be this, this protection of only as long as I don't get hurt. Hmm. But what that's saying is, is don't ever do anything to hurt me otherwise. Jennifer (29:51):Yeah. We kind of have that perspective in marriage sometimes we have that wall of absolutely like, Don't hurt me, don't touch me. Don't do that or else, you know. Yeah. Aaron (30:01):And I, and it's okay to not wanna be hurt. No one likes being hurt. Jesus wasn't excited about being hurt, but he did it out of obedience to cr to God. He did it for his bride. And so that, that's where the sacrificial love mm-hmm. comes in and I, I wrote up here, how do we move past the honeymoon stage? Mm-hmm. of friendships and he brought up marriage. There's a honeymoon phase of like, everything's fun and beautiful and, and lights and easy and exciting and new. And then you, you that slowly fades away when reality had said, people don't have time to for you like you want them to. Well Jennifer (30:38):There's that friction Aaron (30:38):Or they forget about you because of things going on in their life. Or like the, these are real things or there's an actual offense. Yeah. You did something, said something, they did something, said something. And that honeymoon phase is it just dissipates. And then you actually are stuck with like, am I going to still love this person? Am I going to pumble myself and ask for forgiveness? Jennifer (31:04):What have we experienced when we've moved past that honeymoon stage in our friendships with others and have overcome the conflict or the hardship or the challenges? Well, I think, what Aaron (31:15):Do you experience? I think just like marriage, like the longer you're in it, the more, the more we overcome these difficulties, these hardships, you look back and you have a more vibrant, more strong, more trusting, more powerful marriage. I think that's the same with, with our relationships in the church, with, with other believers, with friend, with our friends is you, you become stronger for it. You, you there. There's a, I think if, if you, if we can get past these hard things in love and forgive and not just kind of pretend and hide mm-hmm. , but like actually like address and actually deal with and actually reconcile, there's, I think those friendships become stronger. Mm-hmm. , that's, I think that's the ideal perspective. Jennifer (32:00):So, so in marriage when you know there's conflict or you know, difficulties, you kind of have that whole covenant thing to hold you together and be like, well, we're married. So a good point. We got to do this. Where in friendships sometimes, and maybe I'm the only one here, I doubt it. You get tempted to think, well I can let this go. Well I don't have to because I'm not in a covenant. So how do you take those things that come up and you know, your flesh tries to justify, like, is this a sign that we shouldn't be hanging out together or is this some sort of, you know, warning or, you know, does God really want me to fill in the blank? Yeah. Aaron (32:41):Can you answer that? Well, I think there's uh, there's definitely not the same covenantal relationship that a husband and wife has where you, you don't have that. Same thing with friends. We do have a level of obligation as Christians. It says, you know, oh no and no and oh no. And anything except the outstanding debt of love to one another. So we do out of o obligation in the body of Christ that we are to love one each one another. Um, Jennifer (33:05):But with that you're saying don't give up easily, Aaron (33:07):Don't you? I would, yeah. I would say our, our, our, I would say currently in general, the disposition is yeah, easily give up. Like, I'm gonna move on. I'm not, and this probably people in here that are like, no, I, I fight. And so I, I I think there are that, those people in the church. But I would say it's definitely easier in our flesh to wanna avoid, wanna move on, wanna not have to deal with the messiness. Especially with everything else in our life that we have to deal with. So not making it easy because we love that other person mm-hmm. , right? So we don't just first offense like, oh, I'm outta here, but like, we like, hey, I wanna actually walk with this person cause I love them cuz maybe they didn't recognize it, maybe they didn't know. But I also wanna say there are times when we do get to walk, we should walk away from certain relationships. We can still love them in Christ. We can still want the best for them. We can still pray for them. But like having a but at a distance, Jennifer (33:58):Like having a healthy boundary, knowing that for whatever reason that specific relationship is, is toxic in a way or is, is not healthy. Aaron (34:07):Well, but only after trying Jennifer (34:09):To testing it. Aaron (34:10):Cause it tells the word also says do everything you can that within your power to be at peace Right. With all men. So if you, that doesn't mean you can't, or that doesn't mean you can what the everyone mm-hmm. . Yeah. So if you've tried, if you've, if you've attempted, if you've prayed through it, if you've, if you've walked through it and you, and you're like, you know what, this is nothing's changing, then I would, I I would say absolutely. Like there's, there's good, good cause to separate Yeah. From a relationship. Like there's no covenantal obligation. But I think as believers that we, we shouldn't make it easy to do Jennifer (34:43):That. Can I throw you a curve ball? Aaron (34:44):Absolutely. Jennifer (34:45):Maybe I'm the only one thinking this. Maybe not. So what happens if, let's say you and I have a friendship with another couple or family and I'm finding it difficult and I'm pulling away saying, I really don't think that we should, you know, continue on in this relationship, but you are really, um, excited to carry on the relationship and build that friendship. And so it becomes a thing between us and the marriage. You know, when, when there's one spouse for it and one spouse that's not for it. How do you navigate that? Aaron (35:17):That's a hard one. Um, I, I, I, I, I'm first and foremost, there should be prior to given to your spouse. And so there should be lots of discussion and prayer about those relationships and what that means. Yeah. So I don't have a cut and dry answer of like, That's good. I just want bring another Yeah. Jennifer (35:34):Prayer, discernment. Yep. Aaron (35:36):Sometimes fasting, and just lots of prayer, uh, to make things work sometimes. Jennifer (35:42):Okay. Since I'm really good at asking questions. Here's the next one. , Can we get too comfortable in our friendships? What does that mean? , you're just going through the motions of like Aaron (35:53):Well, I think the comfort, um, I, I think there could be a level of forgetfulness. Yeah. Like we just assume like, Oh, they're great, We're great, Everything's great. They're busy. I'm busy. Okay, Jennifer (36:05):Cool. What's really hard about that is come to find out for months they've been suffering or struggling or, and there wasn't open communication and why was that happening? Uh, but one thing that we really wanted to share with you guys today is an encouragement, uh, to ask deep questions in your friendships. Be willing to ask how are you really doing? And pressing into that. Mm-hmm. , how is your marriage doing? How's parenting going? Aaron (36:29):Yeah. I had, I had lunch with the friends today and the first thing, How's your marriage ? That was the first thing he said to me. Jennifer (36:34):. And, and then being honest to respond. You know, Um, how is your relationship with God? Is there any sin in your life that you're struggling with? How can I be praying for you? Yeah. Like, these are questions that you can't just say yes or no to. They have to be explained. And I think what makes asking these questions hard to do is if you're not willing to share on the other end to be asked in reciprocation. So think about these before you ask them, but be willing to ask them, which means you're willing to answer them. Aaron (37:03):. Yeah. And I think we can also get too comfortable in a way, not just necessarily asking important questions, but I think we can also at times speak to our friends maybe in a inconsiderate way, maybe cuz we're so comfortable. We're kind of just like, we just, we're speaking, we're, we're venting. We're, we've had that forgetting that they're, they're people mm-hmm. that here are the things that we're saying and receive them. And I think that could happen. I, again, I, that's one of my weaknesses is my, the, my tongue, the way I, the way I speak sometimes. Mm-hmm. can hurt people. So this next one, um, I'm gonna ask and, and also give an answer to it. Um, because I, I think it's, in the church it can be easy and in actually in real life, in any part of life, to connect the quickest and the closest and the, and the most intimate with people similar to us, they think like us, they're in similar life stages. Kinda makes it easy. It it's very easy. Um, but what, how do we as the church, recognize that we can also pursue relationships and friendships in the church with people who love God, who aren't exactly like us Jennifer (38:19):Mm-hmm. and enjoy those friendships Aaron (38:21):And enjoy them. Yeah. Um, and I'm, I'm thinking like maybe they have a slightly different worldview. Uh, maybe they have slightly different perspectives on and biblical beliefs. Mm-hmm. because that, this is just the reality in the church. There's so many different Yeah. Like caveats Yeah. That people have. Um, and I'm not saying on the main things, but I'm saying like the little details, um, can we have deep friendships with those people? Should we be having our minds on those people and thinking, I'm gonna go out of my way cuz I want to get to know this brother for the same purposes. I'd get to know any other person mm-hmm. in the church. I Jennifer (38:57):Think everyone's shaking their head in agreement, but also thinking, Wow, that's hard. , you know, that's Yeah. Extra. Aaron (39:04):Yeah. There's a, there's a few verses I wanted to read cuz I, I do think we should, I think, I think we should at times and often go out of our way, out of our comfort zones mm-hmm. to befriend and to walk with and have fellowship with oth all in the church as much as we can. We may not be able to have deep, intimate relationships with everyone, but we should at least try. Mm-hmm. , we should at least reach out, see how people are doing, connect, be friends with. Jennifer (39:29):That was the example that Jesus gave to us. Like he didn't do his ministry by himself. He invited others to, to come alongside him. Aaron (39:37):Oh mean, Yeah. Even even duns of the little children. Yeah. The, the disciples like, get these children out here. He's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let the little ones come to me. . Uh, so second Corinthians 13, 11. Finally, brothers rejoice aim for restoration, comfort one another. Um, and in the new King James version that says, um, strive for harmony instead of aim for restoration, but strive for harmony, comfort one another, agree with one another, live in peace and the God of love and peace will be with you. And then in Philippians 1 27, only let your manner of life be worthy of the gospel of Christ. So that whether I come and see you, or I am absent, I may hear of you that you are standing firm in one spirit with one mind striving side by side for the faith of the gospel. I think that this is should be the, the baseline disposition for us as Christians in the church. (40:31):That we don't just, Well I have my, my handful of close friends because we're all in the same life stage. It's this very, this is easy. That's good to have that. But that we, we see the others in the church that aren't like us. We see the others in the church that are in different life stages than us. We see that people in the church that are different age ages as us and we say, I wanna be with one spirit with them. Mm-hmm. and I wanna strive side by side with them for the faith of the gospel. Mm-hmm. Jennifer (40:58):, the verse that comes to my mind when you are saying this is um, like iron sharpens iron mm-hmm. and how the coming together of friendships really stirs one another up to understand more about life and about God's word and about what's happening. And I'm just always encouraged by what it means when friends come together and experience that. Yeah. Aaron (41:23):In faith, and I know we talk about this in a way that like, almost like we've figured it out. I promise you we have not. It's something that God is constantly teaching us things and constantly, even today we're talking about our relationships and saying, Lord, how, how do we cultivate these better? Mm-hmm. . And so, um, my friend Cody also mentioned a, a idea for this topic is what kind of example are we showing to our children? Yeah. On how to be good friends mm-hmm. . And so we just wanted to, this is for all of us. It's not just to our children, but these are some things that we can be practicing in front of our kids with our, our friends. Mm-hmm. , um, things like learn to apologize quickly, which, which in turn means that we recognize that we need to apologize. Not just being oblivious to our, our ways of being and Jennifer (42:15):Forgive. Yeah. Aaron (42:16):Forgiving. Yeah. Cuz we tell our, our kids all the time, Forgive your brother, apologize to your brother , um, being patient, are we patient with our friends or are we short and like, oh, you don't mess up again or else, or, or I can't believe you did that, but are we patient? Like, oh, maybe they just had a hard day. Oh maybe they didn't mean that. Mm-hmm. , like that benefit the doubt Jennifer (42:36):Thing. I would also add showing them, um, how to invest and make time for friends. Like having them over for dinner or helping them in an emergency. You know, like those types of experiences always make me feel closer to another friend when we can rely on each other or make plans together. Um, hearing randomly from each other and, and when you can just be in each other's presence without that obligation of feeling like you have to entertain or host mm-hmm. , you can be yourself and be loved. Like the, the kids are paying attention to all of Aaron (43:05):That. And speaking of example to our children, um, the example that we could be giving to our friends is when we, when we walk in these things, we're being an example of how we would want them to be a friend to us. Mm-hmm. , that whole golden rule thing. Yeah. Love your neighbor as yourself. Do unto others as you would have them do unto, unto you. If you would want them to recognize quickly that they need to apologize, then do that. If you would want them to be patient with you, then be patient with them. If you would want them to reach out to you and check on you, reach out to them and check on them. Reach out and say how, what's going on? How are you doing? Can we catch up? Can we get lunch? Can I bring you a coffee? If you would want someone to bring you a treat and just remind you that they love you, do that. (43:48):Mm-hmm. . Um, and then the last piece I wanna add to this is we've dealt with this. When we go through hard things, when we are struggling with a sin, when we're struggling with, uh, frustrations, angers, anxieties, all these things, it's easy to to, to retreat into ourselves. Isolate, isolate. But the, we should do the very opposite. We should because we always think like you're going through something, why didn't you tell me? But, and then we have a hard time doing it. We can be an example in reaching out and saying, I'm struggling today. I'm mad at my husband, I'm frustrated with my wife. I need prayer in this area. And I'm not saying do it to gossip cuz that some people are probably listening saying, Wait a minute. I'm saying, if you have those close friends that you trust and, and that we would reach out and say, I'm not okay right now, Please pray for me, or please come over, or can I come over? And that shows an example of what we would love for them to do because we would, if you, if you truly love someone, you want them to let you know when they're having a hard day, when they're struggling. So you can be like, Hey, how can I help? So I just wanted to end with that little bit. Jennifer (44:57):That's good. Um, if I was gonna end with something I was gonna say, and, and obviously our kids are still young, so I don't have the fruit of this to prove to you guys or anything like that, but something that I really care about is that my friend, my kids feel like they have friendships within, uh, the each of their re relationships with each other. And so if you're a parent of multiples, um, knowing that you have an opportunity every day to set the vision for your kids of what friendship can look like when they're older. And that can be as simple as saying things like, you know, when you're older, you're gonna call up your brother and ask 'em to go to lunch with you. And just giving them like this anticipation for what friendship will be like when they're older and, and encouraging them to start now by how they communicate and how they interact with each other. And I've been trying to do that in our kids' relationship. So again, I don't know what will come of it, but I think we're all pretty friendly in our family. We're Aaron (45:54):Trying. Yeah. Jennifer (45:55):So Aaron (45:56):We, we have our days, so we hope that encourage you guys. It was just a quick conversation about friendships, um, quick. It's like 40 minutes or something like that. . Jennifer (46:05):But it has been a message that has been a core value of ours and a message that we've promoted over the years, just amongst friends that yeah, we should be cultivating these relationships. It's a, it's important thing to us. Yeah. Aaron (46:19):So why don't we transition into the challenge and then we'll pray for you guys. All Jennifer (46:22):Right. Well, um, it's called a weekly challenge because it is challenging. So , if you didn't make it through last week's challenge, that's okay. No one's gonna judge you. , we Aaron (46:31):Forgive Jennifer (46:32):You. We also did not make it through last week's challenge, but that's okay. So, um, we just wanna encourage you to take up this week's challenge and see what comes of it. Aaron (46:42):Maybe add on last week's challenge too, and just keep it going. There Jennifer (46:46):You go. We don't wanna burden you guys. , take from it what you can. Uh, this week's challenge can be done with your spouse or you can do it together with some of your friends. But it's just initiate a deep conversation, share about fears or doubts, share about your dreams for your marriage or your family. Um, share about what God's been teaching you or showing you through his word. Aaron (47:07):Love it. It's a good challenge. It's good. Jennifer (47:09):It's it. Aaron (47:10):So babe, why don't you pray, press Okay. Jennifer (47:13):Dear Lord, Thank you for the gift of friendship. We pray we would grow in our ability and willingness to invest in our friendships. We pray we would cultivate our friendships as we care for others and share our lives together. We pray we would be a light to our friends and seek to be a blessing as we choose to serve them. Lord, please show us how we can be praying for our friends. Please show us how we can be encouraging our friends when conflict or uncomfortable discussions arise. We pray our Holy Spirit would help us navigate these situations with grace and love. We pray we will always communicate in love with our friends. We pray for good friends who we can rely on and we pray that we would be reliable Friends when we feel insecure in our friendships, please lead us in finding peace in those relationships. We pray your will would be done in us and through us. In Jesus name, Amen. Thank you for joining us for another episode of the Marriage After God podcast. Aaron (48:01):If you found today's episode fun and encouraging, please take a moment to share it on social media or in an email to some of your married friends. Jennifer (48:07):Also, would you please take a moment and leave us a review, reviews help to spread the word about our podcast. Aaron (48:12):Be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode and you can always check out more of our resources@marriageaftergod.com. Jennifer (48:18):You can follow us on social media for more marriage encouragement on Facebook and Instagram at marriage after God at Husband Revolution and at Unveiled Wife. Aaron (48:26):We hope you have an incredible week and look forward to sharing more with you next week on the Marriage After God podcast.    Connect With UsInstagram | @marriageaftergodInstagram | @unveiledwifeInstagram | @husbandrevolutionCheck out our marriage resources!SponsorsGet our new book The Marriage Gift - 365 prayers for your marriage!Our Sponsors:* Check out Mr. Pen and use my code MAG10 for a great deal: https://mrpen.comSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/marriage-after-god-biblical-advice-practical-tips-and-inspiring-/donations

Pornography is all too common these days and sadly it is common even among believers. In this episode, we share How Aaron has been able to walk in freedom from this addiction for more than 6 years now and how you can too. We also talk about how you can help prepare and protect your children from this destructive sin. READ TRANSCRIPTjennifer:Hi, and welcome to the Marriage After God podcast. Aaron:We're your hosts, Aaron and Jennifer Smith. jennifer:We have been married 15 years and have five sweet children who are growing up way too fast. Aaron:We love God and we love marriage. jennifer:And we love to be honest about it all. Aaron:Marriage is not always a walk in the park, but we do believe it has a powerful purpose. jennifer:So, our goal here is to open up the conversation to talk about our faith and our marriage. Aaron:Especially in light of the gospel. jennifer:We certainly don't have all the answers, but if you stick around we may just make you laugh. Aaron:But our hope is to encourage you to chase boldly after God's purpose for your life together. jennifer:This is Marriage After God.Welcome back to another episode of the Marriage After God [inaudible 00:00:52]. Aaron:Podcast. We're Aaron and Jennifer Smith, and we're glad you're here. jennifer:Okay. But can I just say, in all realness, this was a hard episode to start, to hit that record button on, because- Aaron:Not just because of the topic, of course. jennifer:... Aaron and I, we're having a hard moment in our flesh just now. And he even said, "Maybe we should postpone this. Let's just wait." And I said, "No, this is exactly why we started a marriage ministry is because marriage is hard and we're not exempt from that." And- Aaron:Well, I want to be exempt from it, but- jennifer:But marriage wasn't hard back then in our early years. Marriage is hard even now. You go through these rhythms and motions where some days you're really great, and then there's times where it's not so easy. Aaron:This was one of them, but we're starting and we're doing this episode whether we like it or not. And I like it. I'm glad we're moving forward. jennifer:Well, I guess I just wanted to share all that because I want you guys to know that we said this before, but we don't know it all and we're not perfect at marriage. But the reason that we do this is because we're just like you guys and we know that there are hard days mixed in with a lot of good. And it's those little bits of encouragement that you get hopefully through our podcast that remind you to just press in and keep going and keep- Aaron:Continue on? jennifer:Yeah. Just going. So, here we are. Aaron:Well, we're going to do it in today's episode. We're going to be chatting about also a hard topic for us, but we're going to be talking about victory from pornography. Which, the victory's not hard. That's awesome. But just the topic of pornography is sensitive. So, thanks for bearing with us today. We're going to try our best. We love you guys and we're excited to be here. But before we get into the sponsor for this episode, I just wanted say that we're so honored that we're currently getting over 12,000 downloads per episode for this season, which is crazy because that's actually double, if not more than double what we were getting last season per episode. jennifer:Nice. Aaron:Which is crazy. I have no idea why, but it's awesome and it's happening. jennifer:So, I just told a lot more people that we have hard times? Aaron:Yeah. Double the amount of people, actually. So, that being said, we'd love to see what we can do with this podcast and the community and what it's capable of. Would you commit to inviting one other couple or person to check out this show this week? The most powerful way for anything to grow is by the community itself and word of mouth. So, I just wanted to encourage you, this week invite someone to listen to this podcast. jennifer:So, this podcast, or this specific episode, is brought to you by our 31 day marriage devotionals for couples, Husband After God and Wife After God. We wrote these devotionals to encourage husbands and wives around the world to draw closer to God and closer to each other. These devotionals can be done by yourself, so you could just pick up your own copy, or you could do it together with your spouse, which is really awesome because the topics kind of coincide. There's a couple different ones. But you guys can talk about the topics together, which is really cool. Some of the topics that we cover are God's purpose for your marriage, the ministry of reconciliation, the parts of marriage, and many more. It also includes a daily prayer, which is really cool. Every day's topic comes with scripture to read, a prayer, a thought and questions for you to answer, and even journal together if you want. Aaron:Yeah. So, we want to invite you. It's Husband and Wife After God devotionals. You can get them on amazon.com or at marriageaftergod.com. jennifer:Okay. So, you already mentioned that this topic of pornography, even though it's victory from pornography, is a hard- Aaron:It's still a big portion of my story overall, is this journey from pornography. jennifer:But you mentioned that it's hard to talk about. Why? Aaron:It's ugly. It's embarrassing. It's a part of my life that I'm not happy was ever there because of how destructive it was. So, it's a hard subject. But the reason I talk about it and we've talked about it in several episodes in the past, and I share it with anyone I talk to, is because I believe that the more I share it, the more open I am about it, the more light I shine in that darkness, the less dark it is and the less hold it has in my life and the less hold it has in other people's lives. jennifer:Yeah, I also think about how it's so weird, but words like sex or pornography, our culture exposes so much of it and just puts it all out there and yet there's- Aaron:Yeah. It's commonplace. Yeah. jennifer:Yeah. It's common and almost normal. But then there's this element of, you can't really talk about it without feeling guilt or shame or icky. Aaron:That should tell you something about it. jennifer:Yeah, that's weird. Okay. Aaron:That's an interesting thought that they make it seem so common and yet you can't have healthy conversations around it, which is interesting. So, hopefully we have a healthy conversation around it today. I mean, like we were just talking about, pornography has become so common in many homes. jennifer:Definitely accessible. Aaron:Well, it's way more accessible than it ever has been, but it's so common. And it's common now even amongst both men and women more so than it ever has been. You can look up the stance yourself at a later time. And although it shouldn't be, it's super common in the church. The bride of Christ. jennifer:Yeah. The body of... Aaron:Yeah. So, it's not enough to talk about it one time in one past episode. It's something that we need to keep bringing up, especially because we have double the people listening now. Hopefully there's someone that listens today and walks away from this really encouraged, really reminded of the truth of who they are in Christ, and also freedom from pornography. jennifer:Yeah. Pornography was something that plagued our marriage in a lot of the early years, and it was really hard to walk through that with you. And it was really painful in a lot of ways. It caused a lot of hurt and harm to our marriage. Aaron:Well, and it was one of those things, like I've talked about in the past, is it plagued my life even before we were married. And I was really hoping that marriage would've somehow fixed it, which of course is a lie. jennifer:It was a habit you had built of- Aaron:Yeah. It was a habit, an addiction, jennifer:... coping and going to that- Aaron:That ugly place. Yeah. jennifer:... place. Yeah. Aaron:But God was patient and He was gracious and He helped me, which I love. Because if you think about it, God's righteous and He didn't need to be patient with me. But because He is patient and loving, He was. Which is, I just praise God for that. He was. And He's patient with you listening too. He's patient with us, but He wants us to know the truth and that's hopefully what I'm going to get to today. What we're going to just shine a light on today is that we believe lies which keeps us in our pornography addictions, but there's truth that sets us free. jennifer:And there's hope for you today- Aaron:There's hope, yeah. Absolutely. jennifer:... listening- Aaron:100%. jennifer:... if you are struggling with addiction, to be at a place of freedom and to walk in victory. Aaron, how long has it been now for you? Aaron:I was trying to calculate this when I was looking through these notes and I believe it was around 2016. jennifer:Which was six years ago. Aaron:Six-ish years ago. It could have been earlier or maybe a little later. I was really trying to pinpoint exactly when this conversation that happened with me. But it's been about six years. I think that's about right. It feels like it's been that long because I was actually just walking around today thinking about this episode. And I was thinking about how amazing it is that I don't have that guilt and shame anymore. Because it used to be so prevalent in my life. It was like every day or every other day or every other other day, but it was constant. And that's hard for me, but I look back and I'm like, "Man, that's pretty amazing that it's not a part of my life anymore." jennifer:It's like a weight lifted off your shoulders. Aaron:Yeah. And I wanted to just mention that it's not that it's not a daily struggle, a battle. I can feel that- jennifer:Temptation. Aaron:... temptation. I could feel that urge and I constantly am being reminded from the enemy or just my flesh of that part of my life. But I'm constantly having to submit those thoughts to Christ and pray over them and remind myself that that's not who I am, that those are not my thoughts, that I don't want those thoughts, that I want to be pure and holy and healed. But it's pretty amazing that it's been so long. jennifer:That's awesome. I think for some people listening, they might think, "Well, I could never go that long." Or- Aaron:I remember thinking that a lot. jennifer:Did you? Aaron:I do. I remember thinking when I was in the midst of it, that there was... I think the longest I ever went was a month, but it never dawned on me that it would actually be permanent. That was never an idea I had in my mind. I just always felt like, "Maybe I can go longer this time. Maybe I can go longer next time." So, if you're listening and you think this, that you don't think you can go that long, then you won't. If you don't think you can, you won't. And that's a big mind shift, is actually believing you can be free, and even bigger than that, are already free from pornography, which I think we'll get into a little bit more soon. jennifer:So, what was it for you, that point of recognition or that moment where you gave it up and you started to believe what was true? Aaron:And walk in that freedom? jennifer:Yeah. Aaron:This is the crux of pretty much everything. Any addiction, anything we walk in, any lies we believe, any of these strongholds in our lives, this is the crux of what changes that. What we believe is how we are going to act. So, if I believe I'm still a slave to pornography, which I did, and I believe that it had a hold on me, I believe it had a power over me, then I'm going to remain a slave to it even if that's not true. So, even if I have enough willpower to avoid it for a while, eventually I'm going to be right back to it. Because what I believe is why I'm there in the first place. I believe it has the power over me. I believe it controls what I do. I believe that it is happening to me.So, even if I try and go a month, a week, a day, it doesn't matter how long I think I can go. I don't believe I can continue on, like I just mentioned a little bit earlier. What I believe dictates what I do. So, what changed was a brother in Christ telling me that I was believing lies, revealing to me the lies that I was believing. Because I would say, "I want to be free." But the lie is that I wanted to be free. The truth is I wanted that pornography. I wanted that feeling. I wanted that experience. So, I had to recognize the truth about it. But the even deeper truth that set me free is that I was already free, that I'm actually not a slave to pornography. As a believer in Christ, as someone who saved by the blood of the lamb, as someone who has put his faith in the only name that is above every name, I'm actually already free.There are no chains. The bonds of sin and death and the fear of death are gone. They're gone in Christ. But if I think I'm still in bondage, if I think I'm still enslaved to this thing, then I'm going to act like I'm still enslaved to it. And so that was actually a huge moment for me. The Bible tells us that we're transformed by the renewing of our minds. That was a renewing moment of my mind that I was able to realize in my spirit that, "Oh, wait a minute. I'm not slave to this and I don't have to do this." That doesn't mean it didn't feel any less strong. But what it did was when those temptations came, I actually knew the truth about it, that I wasn't a slave to it, that I didn't need it, that that's not who I am and I can actually start hearing those things.It almost made me more sensitive to what the spirit was already trying to say to me in the conviction about the pornography. So, just a recap, what changed me was I began to believe the truth. And I know that sounds maybe oversimplified, but that's the reality with all these things. If we believe the truth. Jesus came to set us free. It's for freedom that Christ has come. That's what He's giving to us, is freedom from sin and death. And so I'm not a slave to pornography. If you're listening to this and you're a believer and you are addicted to pornography, I want you to know something. You are not a slave to pornography. Pornography is not something happening to you. You're free from it. You're completely free in Christ Jesus. Once you realize that, then you recognize then what you're doing is you're choosing this sin. That's what I was doing. That's what Christians do, is we choose the sin rather than the sin doing something to us or controlling us. Because it does not have the control. jennifer:So, that's really good. And I really appreciate you sharing that. I just want everyone to know this is really a hard topic for me to go back to and talk about, especially experiences in our past. Because as a wife, it emotionally brings me back to these places that I was like, "Oh, that really hurt," or, "That was really hard." And so earlier I mentioned that it hurt our marriage. Do you want to share a little bit about how, like what are the different ways? Because I think it's important that people hear. Maybe people who are listening who may be doing something like this, they're not realizing the pain that it could cause. So, maybe hearing our story, maybe hearing how it has hurt our marriage will shed some light. Aaron:Well, you mentioned how it's a hard subject for you because of what it brings up for you, those emotions that hurt. Can I just ask you, how did it affect you? jennifer:It made me feel really insecure. It made me feel like I wasn't good enough or I couldn't measure up to what it was that you really wanted. And it made me angry. Aaron:Oh, yeah. You were angry. jennifer:It made me sad. It was a lot. Heavy. Aaron:It was a lot. And it was very spiritually destructive between our relationship. That unity that we had, it was always something chipping away at our unity, if not taking huge chunks out of it. It spiritually hurt us. I didn't have much respect for myself. I didn't see myself as someone respectable because I knew what was in my heart. I knew what I was doing. So, it made me weak. jennifer:Which actually showed physically. Thinking back on just our journey together, your countenance, the way you carried yourself, everything about you was less confident, less assured- Aaron:That's true. jennifer:... than what you've been walking the last six years. Aaron:That's true. jennifer:Drastically different. Aaron:Yeah. It's been a- jennifer:Huge shift. Aaron:... huge transformation. Yeah. It kept me from feeling confident in my relationship with God. I always felt insecure with God, which is crazy because He's the most secure relationship that I have. But I felt distant from Him. It's not like He changed. He didn't move. But I felt wishy-washy with Him and tossed to and fro, and that was not good. jennifer:I remember the feeling of broken trust and struggling to know whether I could believe the things that you were saying or if you were telling the truth in a lot of different areas of life because of that one area. Aaron:Yeah. And it was true. Because going back to talking about what I believed and how that drives what we do, because I believed one way, even when I was repenting to you or apologizing to you, I couldn't actually do it because what I was repenting of was how I felt about my sin. What I was repenting of is what it did to you. I was repenting of these things, the fruit of my sin that I didn't like, but I wasn't actually repenting of my sin, of my love of it, of my desire for it. The repentance was skewed because my belief was off. What I was believing was false.And that's why belief is so powerful. Just to go back to this again, I just want to reiterate that this is what brings us freedom is when we believe the truth. It's the truth that sets us free. That what we believe drives what we do. It's why we're told to believe in Jesus. I want to make sure I say this carefully. Jesus is our salvation. But what He calls us to do is believe in Him. That's what He calls us to do is believe in Him. And when we truly believe in Jesus, our lives reflect that. We begin to follow Him. We begin to listen to His word. jennifer:Things change in our life. Aaron:Things change. So, that's what faith is. Faith is the proof of what we believe. And it's the actions that grow out of what we believe. So, going back to pornography, if I believe pornography has this control over me, then I'm giving it that control. If I believe I'm a slave to it, then I'm going to act like a slave to it. I'm going to give in every time that temptation shows up, even if I can have enough willpower against it for a time or two. jennifer:Just to interrupt you real quick. Because people are funny. We're funny. What hinders us from believing what's true? Aaron:We talked about this for a little bit. This weird idea that I was thinking about is because we have a lot of biology that dictates a lot of things, like what we- jennifer:Like hormones. Aaron:... crave and hormones, and when we get angry or sad or happy and what things we love in life and things we want to do. A lot of that's just biology, but we're not only biology. We're a multifaceted creature. We're a soul and we have a spirit and we have God's spirit in us. So, we have all these aspects to us that... So, I was just wondering, where does belief exist? It can't be in the biology of us. Belief is not just synapses firing and hormones flowing and these chemical responses in my brain saying, "Oh, now I agree with this idea." Belief has got to be something outside of us.It's a spiritual thing. It's a spiritual thing that affects our biology. It affects what we do and how we act and what we eat and where we go and things we say and how we respond. And so what keeps us from believing, I think sometimes, can maybe be biology, but I don't think so. I think what keeps us from believing is what we already believe. Because we all believe something. So, it's not that we don't believe something. We already believe something. And either that thing we believe is the truth or it's a lie. And so I think what keeps us maybe from believing the truth are the lies that we hold so strongly to already. I could be wrong, but that's what kept me for so long. And I think another thing is- jennifer:Real quick before you move on. Aaron:Yeah, go ahead. jennifer:When you were talking about the lies that we are clinging on to, I got this image, because I think in pictures, of like, "Okay, well then as I'm walking through this process, in order to believe something new we got to rip up the old thing." And then I got this picture of renovating a house and finding that old 1970s tile on the floor that's stuck so hard and you're trying to chisel at it and it won't get up. Aaron:So you could put down a new floor. jennifer:Yeah. But what an awful process. Aaron:It is. Well, and it's hard. But I think a part of that chiseling up is it being presented to us in the first place, being told that that tile is ugly. jennifer:Like the confrontation. Aaron:Yeah. And so I think a reason maybe we don't believe the truth is not that we haven't heard the truth. Because I think there was so many times growing up in this addiction to pornography that I read scriptures and I looked at them and I said, "There's no way this is true because it doesn't work for me," which is so backwards. The fact is it was already true. I just didn't believe it. I didn't believe what it said. And so I think being presented with it maybe in this way on this podcast or another person in your life like what happened to me, someone sitting down, and it's that moment, it's a culmination of the Holy Spirit conviction, a moment of just providence with another Christian believer. Maybe even not a believer, just some instance where there's a culmination of all of these things coming together where you're like, "Oh man, I've been believing a lie."And I mean, the idea of when you say you believe something, it's essentially saying, "I agree with this." And so we got to ask ourselves, "What do we agree with?" So, when you read scriptures like I was, like this one in Romans 12:2, "Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect." If I don't believe that God's word can actually transform my mind or renew my mind, then it won't. I don't believe it can. Like, "Oh, that sounds great. But it's not for me." Or if I read other scriptures like this one, First Corinthians 10:13, this is a huge one, and I brought this up in other podcasts and I'm just going to keep reiterating because it's so true, "No temptation is overtaking you that is not common to man. God is faithful and He will not let you be tempted beyond your ability. But with the temptation, He will also provide the way of escape that you may be able to endure it." jennifer:Praise God, that He does this for us. Aaron:I would read this and I would say, "Well, not for me. That's true, I guess, for someone but not for me." So, who's true? Is what He says true or what I'm saying true? jennifer:He's always true. Aaron:Yeah. So, just essentially it's either we believe in the lies or we believe in the truth and I started believing the truth. I started believing what God says in His word and it's huge. And First Corinthians 10:13 is true as it gets. jennifer:Thank God. Aaron:Yeah. It's true. jennifer:So, what has it been like now that you've been walking in victory and freedom and purity? How's life? How's our marriage? Aaron:Easier in major ways. Our intimacy with each other has just... I feel like we've been growing over the last six years exponentially. jennifer:Enjoying each other. Aaron:Enjoying each other. There's so much less conflict. I mean, we still have had conflicts, but not around this, not around broken trust, not around the spiritual infidelity. It's just been building trust. And I would say, have you felt more confident with us? jennifer:I have. And just to, hopefully as an encouragement to those listening, trust didn't take that long to rebuild. And I think with things like this, sometimes it can feel like, "Will it ever be restored?" or, "Will we ever be at a place that I truly desire?" And I've been really thankful that trust was something that was rebuilt and rebuilt. It did take time, but not as long as I thought it would take. And I really appreciate that, that that was the case. Aaron:Yeah. And I think it helps when you see actual, real quantifiable change in me instead of this constant... I do want to be honest. There were times that I fell short. And this doesn't mean that I fell back in the same way I did in the past. What God was doing was showing me, because my eyes were taken off of this main, big thing, this porn addiction, He started showing me other areas of my life where I had issues. Lust, bad decision processes in my life. And so again, it wasn't the same kind of messing up that I did in the past. But what happened was is I was able to come to you quicker, repent to you and say, "Hey, I clicked on this thing and I just wanted to tell you I'm sorry. I chose to do it. It's not who I am. It's not going to happen again." And that happened less and less frequently and it's something that- jennifer:It was like God was correcting and retraining your mind- Aaron:That's exactly what He was doing. jennifer:... even down to the simplest, most- Aaron:Things that most people probably wouldn't even think are an issue. jennifer:Yeah. Yeah. But showing you- Aaron:But it convicted me. jennifer:... that this is where it started or this is a root. Yeah. Aaron:And it's that idea that God doesn't even want a hint of it in His church, that He wants his bride to be pure. So, I feel like that's what God was doing. I was getting more and more and more sensitive to this stuff, which is also awesome because then it helped build trust with Jennifer, that even in those, quote-unquote, "little things," which didn't feel little to me, they felt painful and shameful, you saw me growing and changing and being more and more honest and less and less sneaky because I wasn't practicing that thing anymore. jennifer:Well, when you are operating in the spirit and you have a relationship with God, there is this level of discernment, I think, in marriage where you sense when your spouse is struggling with something. You can sense when there's emotional. You can sense when they're sinning. And you may not always know exactly- Aaron:Which you did. jennifer:... what it is or what they're going through, but you definitely sense things. And oftentimes that sensing I would get would prompt me to ask, "Hey, how you doing?" And so- Aaron:Which is really helpful. jennifer:Yeah. And I'm just grateful that those promptings that I would get, those discernments, they feel a lot different now. They're about different things. Aaron:Which is good. And I think that's a cool thing, that once you get over, I would say this, that was a big hurdle, it's almost like you can see clearer and it's like the scales fall off my eyes and I can start seeing more and more things that God's trying to grow in me and work in me and areas of my life that I needed to surrender to Him, that I was holding onto that I would've never saw before because I was so blinded by this other stuff that was going on. jennifer:Do you feel like the gains you made and being able to have victory over this made- Aaron:Like the gym gains? jennifer:No. It made you more confident though in other areas that you were like, "Oh, this thing over here? I can..." You know? Aaron:Yes. Again, going back to the self-discipline stuff, all those things that I did get tons of gains in, there's still harder times and we go through seasons, but it feels good knowing that what God says is true and that I am truly free. And I can actually honestly tell that to others and this- jennifer:I was going to say, you feel different. Aaron:I feel different, but I feel like I can genuinely tell other people the same thing, that I don't feel like I'm lying when I say, "You're free." That you actually don't have to do that anymore. And you don't have to believe that. So, some encouragements we wanted to give to you guys as the bride of Christ and women, men, whoever's struggling with this, whoever's dealing with this, whoever's continuing to walk in this and choose this sin, and like I said, doesn't believe they can walk in freedom from it, we want to give you some encouragement for that. So, here's some scriptures and some... We want to help you. jennifer:We want to fill up your cup today. Aaron:Yeah. Why don't you read that first one? jennifer:Okay. It's Titus 3:4-7. "But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our savior appeared, He saved us. Not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to His own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit whom He poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our savior, so that being justified by His grace, we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life." Aaron:So, we wanted to start with this verse because this is where everything comes from in us. The desire to walk in freedom, the desire to walk in holiness. It's by what He has done, not by works that we've done. Because it's- jennifer:Because thinking that it's you and that, "Okay, I'm not going to do this thing today," only get you so far. You're like- Aaron:Yeah, not far at all, actually. jennifer:Yeah. Not far at all. Because eventually we are in our flesh. We fail. Aaron:Yeah. So- jennifer:Which is why we need Jesus. Aaron:Since this is true, since this is by God's goodness and loving kindness that the savior has saved us and washing us and regenerating us and renewing us in his Holy Spirit that He's poured out on us, here's some things I want to tell you. Lay it aside. Lay it aside. Get rid of it. It no longer needs to be in our lives. Let's get rid of this. Hebrews 12:1. "Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses," again, the witnesses of the faithful, of the ones who had faith in God in the Old Testament, "let us lay aside every weight and sin which clings so closely," pornography was one of those things that clung so closely to me, "and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us." jennifer:You just shouted out pornography, but anything, any sin, any addiction, anything that you're- Aaron:Weighs us down. jennifer:If you're listening to this right now and the Lord is like, "This is the thing that I want you to hear." Aaron:Which God does that. Listen to it. He's telling you right now. jennifer:Psst. Aaron:Yes, you. [inaudible 00:31:29]. jennifer:Okay. Reread that last. Aaron:Okay. Hebrews 12:1. "Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight and sin which clings so closely and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us." jennifer:Okay. The next one is, "Flee from it. Flee from sexual..." Oh sorry. First Corinthians 6:18. "Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body." Aaron:Yeah. I was bringing this up today in my men's group. Yes, this is a sin against your own flesh. But again, your wife, your husband- jennifer:You're one. Aaron:... you're one with that person. jennifer:You are one. Aaron:So, it's a sin against them. And then if you take own body as in body of Christ or the body as the church, you're sinning against the body of Christ. There's another scripture that talks about that. It's like taking Christ and putting Him with a prostitute, and we should never do that. And so flee from it. The next one is we want to say, "Kill it dead and gone once and for all." Romans 8:13. "For if you live according to the flesh, you will die. But if by the spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live." This is an important thing, that we recognize that thing as something that needs to be dead and gone. Gone, once and for all. jennifer:I also just want to add some encouragement in light of marriage. When you walk in the flesh and when you choose sin, you are choosing destruction- Aaron:In your marriage. jennifer:... on your marriage. Aaron:Yeah. And your own life. jennifer:And in your life. But if you walk according to the spirit, you will live. Your marriage will- Aaron:Have life. jennifer:... have life. And that's what we've experienced, which is why we are sharing this with you guys today. Okay. The next one is, "Draw near to God and believe the truth." James 4:8 says, "Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded." Aaron:So, that word double-minded is what I believe, believe, there's that word, is who I was before. jennifer:Going back and forth. Aaron:Yeah. I would think and say, "Yeah, I want to be holy. Yeah, I love God. Yeah, I believe what He says is the word." But then I acted totally different. I was double-minded. And so this says, "Draw near to God and He will draw near to you." Period. Draw near to God and believe what He says, which is how we cleanse our hands. We believe His word. We walk in His ways. That's how we cleanse it ourselves. jennifer:It's also His word that will confront the sin in our life. And remember we talked about- Aaron:Purify us. Yeah. jennifer:... the confrontation is what we need to be able to- Aaron:Jesus says this to his disciples in the [inaudible 00:34:13]. I just was remembering this. He says, "You're already clean because of the words I have spoken to you." Think about that. He cleans us and purifies us by His word. So, let's stop being double-minded. So, here's the second to last one. "Not even a hint of it," Ephesians 5:1-5, "therefore be imitators of God as beloved children." That's who you are by the way. Listen to us. You are beloved children of God."And walk in love as Christ loved us and gave Himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you as is proper among saints." When I said it's common in the church, I started that with, "It should not be, but it is." It should not be commonplace. It shouldn't even be named among us as God's bride. Just as much as you would not want any infidelity from your wife or some other man in your bed or other woman in your bed, there should be none of it. Not even close. Not even a hint. That's what God wants from his bride, is not even a hint. jennifer:And then there's confess and repent and pray together. So, James 5:16 says, "Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working." Aaron:This is probably one of the most important ones I would say. I mean, they're all important, but confession is one of the gifts that God's given us, one of the tools he's given us to help us put our flesh to death. Because there's nothing more, I think, our flesh hates than admitting it's wrong- jennifer:Well, it's humbling. Aaron:... or confessing its own failures and sins. But that confession to one another, the confession to my wife, that was a practice of killing my flesh, of saying, "I did this thing. I made this choice and it's going to hurt my wife when I tell her the truth and it's going to hurt our marriage when I tell her the truth." But in reality, that is exactly what I did before I said anything. So, right now I'm going to say it and tell it and repent of it because I want it to die. I want the pain to be seen. I want it to be felt. I want it to be known. I'm making it harder to do it in the future. Because when I get in this habit and practice of confession to my wife when I fail in this way, it makes it that much harder to do it next time because I think, "If I make this choice right now, I'm going to have to confess it." jennifer:Now I do want to note that in our marriage and in our experience, when there was confession there was a lot of emotion that erupted from- Aaron:From you? jennifer:... hearing it and being impacted by the weight of that knowledge. And so I guess my encouragement is that with the choice to confess, leave room and a place for a response and be okay with whatever response is shared. And for those listening where someone's confessing, be respectful in your response. We know that sin hurts and that these things are really uncomfortable to walk through. But if both parties can walk through it with grace and respect and love, a love for God, like, "I love God so much that I'm going to love you, Aaron, through this," if we can do that with faith, then we can get through the confession part and the reconciliation part. I don't know if I explained that very well. It's- Aaron:What you're saying is- jennifer:There's a sensitivity that we've got to have in recognizing that our sin hurts people, our spouse. Aaron:Well, and that's a part of the process, is it being revealed because then it's known and made known, and then the actual hurt that happened is actually happening rather than- jennifer:You see it. Aaron:... letting it fester underneath the surface. jennifer:Or avoiding it by hiding it. Yeah. Aaron:So, I've known many men that, they don't want to confess because they don't want to hurt their wife like that. And I think, "Well, you're already hurting them." jennifer:And it doesn't- Aaron:Worse, actually, by not saying anything. jennifer:And by doing it and by choosing it and it just gives the enemy a stronghold in your life when you don't expose it and drag it into the light. Aaron:And that's what we're going to do. Let's briefly talk about, before we get to a close, about protecting our children. Because this was a big part. We haven't talked about this at all. But when husband, wife, whoever is inviting this in the home, or both, God forbid, but that might be the case in some of these scenarios, when we bring it into the home it doesn't just affect us. It's actually going to affect our children. jennifer:And just to add on to this, we also wanted to bring up talking about protecting our children because earlier we mentioned how accessible pornography is and how we see it in today's culture everywhere, plastered everywhere. So, even if you're not bringing it into the home, even if you're not addicted to pornography, children- Aaron:There could be access. jennifer:Well, children are going to be exposed at some point. I think it's important to be on the same page with each other in how are we going to address this with our children? Aaron:Yeah. And I would just say first and foremost, we shouldn't be the ones bringing it into the home. We should not be the... Like I said, everything we just talked about before, we need to rid it from our lives. jennifer:Walk in purity. Aaron:Walk in purity. Walk in freedom. Which, by the way, will give us authority to be able to confidently speak to our children about this instead of being weak in our thoughts and ways of communicating about it. So, here's some ideas. Here's some things to consider with your kids. The first one is, talk to them about how to protect their bodies. jennifer:First, just that God created our bodies and that we have certain parts of our bodies that- Aaron:That are special. jennifer:... are special. Yeah. Aaron:That's kind of how at most ages you can say, "Hey, those are special. We don't talk about that. We don't do that." Teaching them about that, about their body parts and how to protect them. The second one is, teach them how to protect their eyes. And this is a thing that I'm constantly having to battle every day. It's something that I was never really taught. But we go everywhere and everyone's got a device. There's a TV. There's something on the radio. Constantly, nonstop. There's a commercial on YouTube. I mean, you name it. How do we teach our children- jennifer:How to have self-control. Aaron:Yeah. If you see something that makes you feel uncomfortable, then you should say something about it. Come talk to us. Or turn and look away, and you don't have to look at that thing. That's a big thing. I think a lot of people, they don't realize that they don't have to look. That's a big thing. jennifer:Another one is just being aware of their device time and not leaving them unattended. Knowing exactly what they've got access to, and just being really mindful of that. Aaron:Yeah. This world is wicked and we've just heard too many stories of a totally seemingly innocent show and something's in the middle of it and it's just not worth it. jennifer:On that note, when you go to friend's houses or family's houses, talking to your children about boundaries with other people's devices, so- Aaron:Even our devices. jennifer:... not looking over shoulders and not being quick to look at other people's devices. Aaron:Yeah. And that can be an awkward one because our kids are getting older and they have friends and, "Hey, look at this game I got. Hey." And totally innocent that we know of. But teaching our kids, "Hey- jennifer:Ask for permission. Aaron:... ask for permission. Don't just look at people's things." We even practice it at home. If I'm on my phone and my son comes up and looks over my shoulder, I put my phone down and I said, "Please don't look at my phone over my shoulder." Teaching them that it's not appropriate to just glance. You never know what someone's got on their device. And so we're just teaching them, "Don't just pick up someone's phone and use it. Don't just look at people's phones. Let's be careful." Another one is when the time is right, again, this is something you got to discern with your kids' maturity level- jennifer:Age appropriate. Aaron:Yeah. Age appropriate. Tell them about pornography. jennifer:And give them a way to handle it if they're ever exposed to it. So, what are those steps they're supposed to take? Are they supposed to come straight to you and tell you? Aaron:Yep. And then the last thing. Again, this is not an extensive list, but teach them about God's design for sexuality. jennifer:Put it in terms of a good, good gift. God has given us a beautiful gift for marriage and sex is a good thing. And- Aaron:Yeah. Growing up, we were under the impression that sex was a bad thing. jennifer:Yeah. "No, no, no. And we don't talk about it either." Aaron:But it's actually a good thing and it should be, in a healthy context and in a safe way, talked about. And we can just show them, "Hey, God designed this and it's a good thing, and it's meant for this purpose," and just get them excited about that aspect of their sexuality. So, those are some ideas we just wanted to share with you of how to help protect our kids from maybe things that we weren't protected from. Maybe not intentionally. I don't think I was ever intentionally exposed to anything. I found it. jennifer:Well, I mean, I think that we all know that there is an enemy out there and he knows that if he can get a stronghold in someone's life at an early age- Aaron:Early on. jennifer:... he's going to win. Aaron:He's one of the best marketers out there, for sure. jennifer:Yeah. So, hopefully that just encourages you guys today to be able to talk to your children about this topic and to make it at least more comfortable for them as they grow up to know that there's an open conversation with you as their parents to share about these types of things. I think that's really important. Aaron:To teach. jennifer:I hope we have that with our children. Aaron:Yeah. So, before we move on to the weekly challenge, which by the way, we'll probably have to give an update on last week's weekly challenge, I want to strongly encourage you listeners to ask God to search your heart, seek inside of you and see if there's any strongholds that you've allowed, any lies you have been believing. Man, I just want you to be free. I want you to walk in the freedom that I've been able to experience, that many believers for generations have been able to experience, knowing that Christ has truly set us free. Ask Him to show you where you have allowed yourself to remain in false bondage. jennifer:And I'm going to add to that and just encourage you guys that if you have been someone who has chosen sin in your marriage, I want to personally just urge you and encourage you to take part in the ministry of reconciliation with your spouse, recognize the hurt that has been caused, and search and ask God how you can repair that part of your marriage. Because it's so vital, you guys. The enemy wants nothing more than to destroy our marriages and it's our responsibility to walk righteously and love one another in marriage. And so I just want to encourage you with that. Aaron:Amen. Why don't you share the weekly challenge? jennifer:So- Aaron:Wait. How did we do with last week's weekly challenge? jennifer:Last week's challenge was great. We were supposed to dream together. And so we went on a date and we shared just- Aaron:We dreamed about potential, maybe future- jennifer:Business ideas. Aaron:... business ideas. jennifer:Which we're really good at throwing on the table. Aaron:Investment ideas. jennifer:We're really good at just, "Hey, what about this?" Aaron:The last episode was, we talked about money and investing and so we were talking about future- jennifer:It was on our minds. Aaron:... money investing. Yeah. jennifer:Yeah. It was really great though. It was good. We also talked about habits because Aaron got me onto a new book that I'm reading. Aaron:I like it. Yeah. Maybe we'll talk about it eventually. One day. jennifer:I think you mentioned it already. Aaron:Did I? jennifer:I Think so. Aaron:Oh, I might have. jennifer:What is it called? Aaron:It's just called Atomic Habits. jennifer:Atomic Habits. That's right. Okay. So, this week's challenge is, be intimate with each other every night for one week, even if you don't feel like it. It only takes a few minutes, maybe. Maybe a little bit more. Aaron:I'll just say what I was writing there is that it only takes a few minutes usually to get interested into it. jennifer:Oh. Well then. And I just want to add, intimate can be many different things. It could be an intimate conversation. It could be physical. It could be- Aaron:It means one thing for one person and it means another thing for another. I could tell you that much. But you- jennifer:We want to encourage you guys to just remember that intimacy in marriage is so vital, especially in light of what we're talking about today. So, be there. Initiate. Aaron:All right. jennifer:Have fun. Aaron:Let's end this in a prayer. Dear Lord, thank you for giving us freedom in Christ. Thank you for breaking the bonds of sin and death and for making it possible for us to walk with Jesus and be reconciled to you. You are so patient and kind to us. And it is that kindness that leads us to repentance. Lord, help us to walk in purity every day and to grow more and more sensitive to the wicked things of this world. Lord, we pray every husband and wife who may still feel enslaved to pornography and have believed the lie that they are, I pray that they would believe the truth and they are already free, that they can choose to walk in the freedom and purity you died to give them.Open their eyes to the truth. Convince them that your sacrifice, your spirit and your word are sufficient for us, and that we are transformed by the renewing of our minds. Renew us, transform us and make us more like your son, Jesus. Lord, tear down the stronghold that the enemy has over the porn industry, bring freedom and salvation to all those involved, and dissolve the influence it has in the church. Convict the hearts of those who continue to choose this sin and bring them to their knees before your throne. Lord, purify your church. In Jesus' name. Amen. jennifer:Thank you for joining us for another episode of the Marriage After God podcast. Aaron:If you found today's episode fun and encouraging, please take a moment to share it on social media or in an email to some of your married friends. jennifer:Also, would you please take a moment and leave us a review? Reviews help to spread the word about our podcast. Aaron:Be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And you can always check out more of our resources at marriageaftergod.com. jennifer:You can follow us on social media for more marriage encouragement on Facebook and Instagram @marriageaftergod, @husband revolution and @unveiledwife. Aaron:We hope you have an incredible week and look forward to sharing more with you next week on the Marriage After God podcast.   Connect With UsInstagram | @marriageaftergodInstagram | @unveiledwifeInstagram | @husbandrevolutionCheck out our marriage resources!SponsorsGet our new book The Marriage Gift - 365 prayers for your marriage!Our Sponsors:* Check out Mr. Pen and use my code MAG10 for a great deal: https://mrpen.comSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/marriage-after-god-biblical-advice-practical-tips-and-inspiring-/donations

This episode is sponsored by our book  Marriage After GodThis is a great marriage resource for anyone or any couple that is looking for something meaty that will inspire and challenge a little. It is a book we wrote together that dips into our story but also gets the reader to search out “what is God doing in my marriage” This book also spends quite a bit of time on finances and marriage, so if you want to dive deeper into today's topic we strongly encourage you to pick up a copy if you have not already! Marriage After God will put you on the path to exploring what God’s purpose for your marriage is.Find it at amazon.com or shop.marriageaftergod.com READ TRANSCRIPT- Hi, and welcome to the "Marriage After God" podcast. - We're your hosts, Aaron and Jennifer Smith. - We have been married 15 years and have five sweet children who are growing up way too fast. - We love God and we love marriage. - And we love to be honest about it all. - Marriage is not always a walk in the park, but we do believe it has a powerful purpose. - So our goal here is to open up the conversation to talk about our faith and our marriage. - Especially in light of the gospel. - We certainly don't have all the answers, but if you stick around we may just make you laugh. - But our hope is to encourage you to chase boldly after God's purpose for your life together. - This is "Marriage After God". Welcome back to another episode of the "Marriage After God" podcast. I promise I don't have the giggles this time. So, if any of you were with us last week, I couldn't keep myself together, but here I am, feeling mostly composed. It's good because in today's episode we're gonna be talking about, breezing over a little bit. - Hitting a nerve, maybe? - Maybe striking a match and igniting a fire on a conversation with money investing in marriage. - So it's something serious, is what you're saying? - Hmm, a little more. It feels serious these days. - All right, well, today's episode is sponsored by our book "Marriage After God". This is a great resource for anyone or any couple that is looking for something meaty that will inspire and challenge a bit. It's a book that we wrote together, it dips into our story, but it also gets the reader to search out what is God doing in my marriage? This book spends quite a bit of time talking about finances and marriage, so if you wanna dive deeper into today's topic, we strongly encourage you to pick up a copy of our book, "Marriage After God". And you can get that at amazon.com, or shop.marriageaftergod.com. - So, in light of this topic of money, what was the inspiration? Why'd you wanna talk about this today? - Well, number one, I mean, money's like top of the list for when you're thinking about marriage, relational things. - The things that- - Stressors. - Cause strife in marriage. - Yeah. - Money's one of them. - Yeah, money's definitely one of them. Now you take that and put it in context to today's current situation. - Issues of- - Like what are we- - Money. - Experiencing. And I think it makes it very relevant. - Do you think that we have, like, some sort of special, like, training in this or? Nope. - It's not really our genre necessarily. We have talked about money a lot in the past because God's used it in our life, but I don't know, it seemed like a good idea to bring up because it's kind of on everyone's minds, it's right in front of us, kind of at every turn. Stuff that's going on the world. - I'll say this, if you're hoping to get some financial advice from today's episode, that's not what you're gonna find here. You'll find encouragement, you'll find maybe, hopefully, some inspiration, some spiritual inspiration to get you and your spouse talking about finances in marriage. But if you want something more, go check out Dave Ramsey or other resources, other podcasts that really, really get into the nitty gritty of finances. 'Cause this is more of just like, how does it relate to your marriage. - I mean, on some levels- - Which is important. - Quote unquote "financial advice", as in, encouraging them in the way to be thinking about it and- - Right. - And the usefulness of it. - We're just not giving direct, like, "You should go do this." - Yeah, and I actually, I wanna boldly and with asterisks disclaim that we're not financial advisors. And so, please don't walk away from this episode and go do something and say, "Aaron and Jen told me to do this." We're gonna share with you few things that we think about and things that we've walked through and things that we care about, and maybe you can learn something, but we're definitely not financial advisors. - Okay, not to take a total tangent here, but you said the word asterisk? - Asterisk, asterisk. - Okay, I had to look it up because my whole life, I said "astrik", like "astrik", I don't know why. When I see that little star, that's how I hear it, "astrik". But lately when I'm working with Elliot, like, on spelling and language arts, I'm constantly looking up words and I'm realizing, I'm saying things wrong. And so one of my words this week, Elliot turns to me, he goes, "Mom, why have you been saying "interragative"? It's "interrogative". I was like, hold on, let me Google it. - Interragative, interrogative. - Said that wrong all last year. - Oops. - Oops. - I'm sure there's a lot of words we've said wrong and continue to say wrong, but that's really funny. Okay, back to money. - Okay. - Okay, we're talking about money. So we've been married for 15 years and I feel like we've gone through quite a few different seasons of life, specifically when it comes to money. Like, just how our relationship to it, how much we've had, how little we've had. - Depending on our jobs or what we were doing. - Yeah, we've gone through and we- It's only been 15 years and I feel like we're now in a new season financially and it's just gonna keep doing this rollercoaster for the rest of our lives. - I think 'cause there's so many variables, there's so many things that affect finances and then there's us, who affect our finances. - Decisions we make. - How we decide to spend it and save it and all of that. - Our relationship to it. Which is kind of like what we kind of wanna talk about today, is a little bit of that relationship aspect with money. - Yeah. - And also talk about some stuff that we've been learning and doing and experiencing ourselves. So, we've been in seasons of debt. We've been in seasons of making very little, to no money at all. I'm immediately thinking about stories in our life of just sitting in my car and we have no money in our account. - Crisis, crisis. - To seasons of abundance where God's just allowed us to have access to more than we ever thought we could have. - Yeah. - And back and forth and everything between. But I feel like along the way, when I read this scripture in Philippians, when Paul talks about how God has taught him contentment in all circumstances. You know that verse that we all like to use that says, "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." The context of it is around how to be content when you have nothing or how to be content when you have a lot. And so the point of that scripture is that He gives us the strength to handle every circumstance we come into in our life, whether poor or rich, whether having a little or a lot. And that's what God's been teaching us is this idea of contentment in kind of every season. And they're hard in their own aspect in different ways, depending on what side you're on. - Well, this idea for this episode that we had in talking about finances in relation to marriage, I thought it would be cool if we just talked about a little bit of our foundation of how we think and view of money, how we've kind of built our foundation and marriage. Do you wanna share a little bit about like- - Yeah- - Where we've landed. - Maybe how we learned certain things. - Yeah. - Because we're, again, we're not experts, but we've been learning a lot of our life, but we also have a disposition, necessarily, to money. How we think about it. - Yeah, yeah. - Because of the way we're raised. I think our parents- - Yeah, for sure. - Did teach us on some level about money. Either they taught us directly about money by things they told us and showed us. But I think we learned a lot of our thoughts of money, probably what we saw in our parents. - And our own experience as we got older. Okay, money coming in, money going out, uh-oh more money's going out, wait a minute. So just basic- - Or dealing with credit. - Basic experience of money. But a lot of, like, the dialogue we've had about money in our marriage has been based on the Bible and, like, going to the Bible and saying, "Well, what wisdom is there in the Word that we can draw from?" I was thinking about this the other day when we were getting ready to do this episode, and just how thinking about our homeschool with the kids and what we want them to learn, 'cause we're always thinking ahead. And it's like, we really want them to understand money. And I wish we were taught this more in school. I wish there was a whole...maybe there was and I just missed it. - Well, we did have a- I had an economics class for just my senior year, is the only thing like- - But one year when you're on your way out. - Yeah, it was one year, but I can't remember there being anything about investing, anything about spending. - I mean, taxes, just think about taxes. There's should be- - Just that alone. - There should be a serious talk about that. But we were thinking about for our homeschool, like how can we incorporate these really important principles to teach our kids and give them a really strong foundation for then propelling them into adulthood for finances. - Well, and it would be valuable, 'cause I feel like we're learning stuff now that if we would've known it 20 years ago, we would've made probably significantly different decisions. But, it- - Here we are. - Yeah, we're here where we're at, we're learning, and I think everyone listening is in the same place. They look back over their lives, the decisions they've made financially, they can always pinpoint those, like, I shouldn't have spent that money or wish I would've saved here or I'm glad we saved, or did this, made this decision. So we're all in the same boat. - Well going back to, you know, the Bible's wisdom over money, we wanted to share a couple of those anchor verses that we kind of lean onto when we're making financial decisions. But I wanted to share with you guys a cool resource that we use when we're looking up stuff in the Bible, it's called openbible.info, and it literally says, "What does the Bible say about" and then it has a search bar for you to just fill in and it gives you all the verses in that topic and you can even search by Bible- - Translation. - Version, yeah. So it's pretty cool. - Yeah, and these scriptures, like we said, a lot of the way we think about money, we try and go back to the Bible and say, okay, "What does God say about money?" And having God's perspective on it, 'cause it does help us. It doesn't mean we've made all the right decisions, but even when we make wrong decisions, we can easily look back and be like, "Well, that's probably 'cause we were unwise in this way, or that's probably 'cause we didn't follow this principle." So one of them is 1 Timothy 6:10. It says, "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. It is through the craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs." So when I was reading through this scripture for this episode, the first thing I wanted to point out is I feel like this is probably one of the most misquoted scriptures. Often people say money is evil specifically, or money is the root of evil, but that's not what this is saying. - Because money's just like a- It's a piece of paper, it's like nothing, right? - Yeah, money is an in inanimate object, it cannot be sinful or good or bad, it's just a thing. - It's not the money that's doing it, it's what is inside of us. - It says, "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil." So this isn't even the main root, this is just one of the roots that could be a root of all kinds of evil is when we have love for money. - Well, a root supports, like, a stem of a plant that grows bigger and so if you think about it, it's like when you have the love of money and you're thirst for it and your greed- - Some bad things are gonna grow out of that. - Oh many, not just one serious thing, but like you're gonna have- - Yeah. Well, and the Bible talks a lot about fruit, good or bad fruit, so talking about- If we love money, if we have a love for money, it becomes that root and then the fruit that's gonna come out of that is gonna be bad fruit. And so I just wanted to point that out, as this is saying the love of money, this is something that's happening inside of our hearts, our disposition toward money. Do we see money as our God? Do we see money as our savior? - Our reliance. - Do we see money as our protection? - Yeah, security, all of those things. - And then I love that it says, "It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs." One of the things that Jennifer and I have learned is anytime we've overstretched ourselves to try and do something, to get more money, we try and start businesses, we try- We end up having more pangs. We're like, "Man, I wish we just would've been fine where we were at." And that's something that we've had to feel that pain several times in our lives for different little things. But that's a true thing, if we have a love for money it's gonna have us wander away from the most important thing in our life, which is our faith, which is our trust and reliance on Christ, to who-knows-what? I mean, you fill the blank. - At minimum it distracts us, for sure. - At minimum, yes. - All right, another one is Matthew 6:24. "No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money." - Yeah. - Every time I've read this in my past, especially growing up, I always just thought, it's so interesting that it's talking about two masters, and then at the very end it says, "You cannot serve God and money." Like, he was talking about money the whole time, what? - Yeah, the two masters, one is God and one's money. - Interesting. - And actually the word money there, it's a Greek word "mammon", which is like a god. It was like a god of wealth, a god of riches. And so Matthew's pointing out, you know, from the words of Jesus, like, we can't serve God and serve- Like, going back to 1 Timothy, that love of money. That pursuit of, "I just need more, I need more, I need more," at that point where we're not serving God anymore. - Well, if you think about all the things that start to change when you go in a certain direction or when you serve a master, your intentions change, your motivations change, your goals change. - Well, and I've felt seasons of this where I can feel myself, like, all I can focus on is making sure we have enough money and I have to, like- I'm constantly brought to my knees and saying, "God, this is so much on my mind. This is such a draw for me, it takes so much energy to do this." And there's also that thought, like, I wish I didn't have to worry about that. And we just do this over here, but we also need money. So it's a part of life. - I know this isn't like a part of our notes, but as you're just mentioning that, how do you also carry that weight of responsibility for your family? Because you're saying in one hand, like, you don't wanna be consumed and chase after that need to have to, like, provide, but then there's this responsibility aspect where it's necessary, and so what's the balance? - I'm gonna be honest, it stresses me out sometimes. - I'm sure you're not the only one. - I'm sure there's a lot of husbands listening that feel the same way that there's this constant, like, "Well, I can't just go be a missionary. I gotta pay my bills, I gotta take care of my family." You know what, that is a ministry. We talk about this in our book, this idea of money as a tool rather than, you know, our pursuit. Like the thing that we're trying to obtain. Because yeah, that's a really good question and it's a- - There's tension. - Absolutely requires me to seek God and ask for help a lot because I feel like I go in this ebb and flow where I feel like I'm pushing too hard to make sure finances are right or growing or being invested well, and then I could feel like I don't push hard enough and I'm like, "Man, I should have been working harder." So that's a good question and I think it's one that all the men listening are shaking their heads here right now, like, I am. - I'm sure they appreciate that. Okay, so the next one is Romans 13:8. "Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law." - I love this one because it- - We share this one a lot. - We have shared this one a lot, especially on this idea of getting out of debt. Because I do believe that believers should have a mentality and a posture towards money that we don't love debt, that we don't keep debt, that our lifestyle isn't like, "Hey, I'm just going to spend and consume," but that we conserve and we are content and we use less. And so we use this verse in that sense of, "Owe no one anything," the only thing we should owe people is our love to each other in the church and in the world. But there's debt sometimes, and we're gonna talk about it a little bit, if we have a debt-free mentality, even though we may have debt, it does change a lot of things in the way we operate in this world. So I do believe our goal should be to be debt-free as much as we can, and to definitely avoid consumer debt. But I think the main focus of this verse is that we owe love to each other. And so that is the main focus of this verse is what we owe to each other is our love for each other. - Cool. Just digging in a little bit more into this idea of living a debt-free lifestyle, and just personally, Aaron, I feel like when we got into our marriage, you came with this foundation of no debt, like, debt's not good. And you had this understanding of it. Was there something that inspired that in you other than the Word or? - Well, I believe- If you remember, like, we talked about this. I had a lot of debt, you had some debt before we got married, but you paid it off before we even got married. - Yeah, it was like a couple hundred dollars, I think. - Yeah, but when we're young, that feels like a lot. - Yeah, it was a lot. - And I had, you know, tens of thousands of dollars in- - School loans. - School loans, which felt like a lot. And what happened was, we were trying to be missionaries and we were living on almost no income, you know, volunteering for this organization. - And when we were doing that, your loans were deferred, so we didn't have the responsibility to pay them yet until one day it was like, oh. - I'm gonna have to pay these now. - Wow, this is reality, yeah. - Yeah, so from being able to live off of almost nothing to all of a sudden, I have to pay this pretty large bill, to us back then, it was huge, it was like couple hundred bucks a month, which would've been a big deal from us living off of very little to nothing. And we realized like, man, we should probably go home and just get rid of this debt. Let's just go get jobs, let's go work, and let's work hard and let's do everything we can. - We worked really hard to get out of that debt. It's not an easy thing, like, when we encourage you guys and you hear us say, "Live a debt-free lifestyle," we know it's hard, we know it's easier said than done, we know we know what it takes, and I just- - It was painful. - Wanted you to hear that. It's a painful experience. - So I would say that's where we came from. There was this, I believe, a Godly motivation to get free from the debt so that we can be free to do more of what God has for us. I believe that's what we were feeling. And so we did that, and because of that, I don't know if everyone knows this, but this ministry that we have now all was invented in that same season of getting out of debt, almost like right at the end of paying off our debt, this ministry was born. And I feel like we didn't have that plan, we had no idea that this ministry was gonna be a thing when we started getting out of debt, we just knew that God wanted to use us. And we knew that the debt was something that could hold us back. And so we're like, okay, "Let's just get rid of this while we can," it was really hard. I remember us having lots of arguments, conversations, tears, around like- - Lots of tears. - Not being able to do what other couples our age were doing, not being able to have pots and pans, not being able to have- Like, I remember these conversations, but in reality, it was a very short season, it was a couple years I think. - It's way gone now. - It's way in the past and man, we look back on that and we're like, we're so thankful that we took that initiative. And it may not be everyone's story, but some of the things that we've learned along the way, and that we share with people, is this way of thinking about debt, not getting into more of it, not spending more than you have, all those things are very important, Dave Ramsey talks about it and the Bible talks about how we should be with our money. So I would say it wasn't our idea, but it was a cool journey that we got to go through in the early part of our marriage. - Yeah. - Together. - Cool. Well, I'm gonna turn the dial on this conversation slightly. I guess it still kind of has to do with debt, but more so- - It's more so our country's debt. - Our country's debt. Yeah. - We're gonna talk a little bit about inflation because it is affecting everyone right now. And I mean, if I could just come right out and say, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry everyone. It's hard, it's hard to go through marriage when the world kind of seems unstable and- - Yeah. - Challenging. - Jennifer asked me, you asked me at the beginning of this episode before we started, you said, "What do you want to get out of this episode?" - Yeah. - 'Cause we always ask ourselves, what do we want for you, the listener. And I was like, I just want them to know it's okay, that we're all in the same boat, and that these things are gonna happen in the world and that our money and our finances and our wealth are not our security, they're just not. And so we're talking about these things to just remind us that our security is in Christ alone, that this is not our home and that we can trust Him and rely on Him, and we can know that, let's just try and do the next right thing, let's try and walk in His wisdom, let's make changes. So that's kind of what I wanna get out of this episode and that's one of the reasons we're talking about inflation is because it's a real thing and it does affect everyone pretty much equally across the board. So just a quick overview, what's happening in the world right now, at least in the United States, but it's kind of happening in the whole world, but I'm just gonna talk about some of the stats that we have here in the US. Inflation essentially is the depreciation of the dollar. So we have a $1 bill and we think it's worth a dollar, but in reality it's not worth a dollar because what that dollar could buy 20 years ago and what that dollar can buy today, not the same things. So here's some quick stats for you based off of the inflation percentages over the last several years. From 2012 to 2020, the average is probably about 2.3, 2.1. You know, we have a 1.7% increase, 1.5, a 2.1. But in 2021, you can- I have a graph on this page, babe, do you see that? - Yeah, I see it. - So from 2020- - Shoots straight up. - It's 1.4%, 1.4% inflation, 2021, 7%. - Crazy. - 2022, 8.3%. Those are huge numbers. And these are average numbers, these aren't, like, to take into account, you know, the cost of milk, or the cost of gas or the- We're all thinking about the thing that costs more to us now and we're like, "Oh my goodness." According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, $100 in 2016, okay, could buy you what now costs $123. That's a 23% increase, on average, on goods and services. That's huge. In what? Five years, six years, barely. That's a big jump and that affects us. Like, we don't think about this, but that actually affects us. - Because it's accounted for over everything, it's not just one thing, right? - Oh yeah. - It's also- I mean, think about gas. - Oh. Gas prices. - Since just the last year or two, it's been- - Well for us, like, we don't have the best economic vehicle for gas, we never had to usually think about it 'cause gas prices for a long time were pretty decent. The average price in 2020 was 2.25, but even at one point it was a $1.90, like, that was so low back in the day. And that was only in 2020. - Back in the day. Yeah. I was looking this up and it says today's average gas price across the nation is 3.70. I just don't believe that, we're paying 4.80 here in Bend and I just- Other places are higher, but 3.70 is the national average. - Okay. - But that's still more than a dollar and a half- That's a dollar and a half more in two years. - That's a lot of fuel, or a lot of- - That's a lot of money. - Money. For fuel. So is this because of the last two years in COVID and everything? - Those things are part of it, I'm not gonna, again, I'm not a economist, I should say. - Okay. - But things like COVID, it did have an effect on this because of how we printed money. If you don't understand this, how this works, the government can print money, and so we print our dollars, we print our tens, our twenties, our hundreds. They can also create money in other ways. And a lot of the inflation that we have now is because- This is kind of crazy, and this is according to nasdaq.com, over 80% of all available money that's been printed or created, has happened in the last two years. That's not a joke. - I don't even understand what you're saying right now. - It's crazy, I'm looking at another graph, and we can see from 1950 all the way to 2020 and there's this steady incline and in 2010, there was a pretty steep incline. But then from 2020 to 2022, it just looks like a knife going straight up out of the ground and the amount of money that we've created. So we think about the COVID Relief Bill and they printed just trillions of dollars to give out to people. And that was great for people that needed it, but now that money's gone and everything costs more. So because we got that little bit of relief then, it's actually hurting us now in a big way and it's actually gonna hurt our kids and our grandkids. A lot of this inflation's caused by, the simplest way to put it, too much money chasing too little resources. So that's just what happens when there's a lot of money and there's very little stuff to buy. All those things that we buy on a normal basis become way more expensive. I know I'm being very basic and there's probably people that are way smarter than me thinking, "Oh, he doesn't even know the half of it," but all I know is inflation's here and I don't know how long it's gonna last and it affects us all. - I'm sure we surprised our listeners today 'cause we don't usually draw in statistics or graphs. - Sometimes, yeah. But we think about a lot of these things. There's a lot of things that we discuss with our friends and in our personal life that we don't always bring up, but we care about and we think about, and we consider and it- Yeah, I wanna bring up another little story. We built this house. But we actually planned on building this house in 2020 and we were really close to closing on a piece of property to build this house and we backed out of it because of everything happening in the markets. And we thought, you know, we have no idea what's going on. We don't know what's gonna happen with all the prices of goods. - We were about to have our baby, Edith. - We were about to have a baby and we just canceled it. And we're like, we'll wait. Now, in hindsight it would've been better to do it then than it was to do it now because all the things that we feared happening then were affecting us now. - All the resources, all the material. - The cost of materials skyrocketed for us, which they wouldn't have back then. - Yeah, that was hard. - But again, it's all hindsight. Can't see the future. - Yeah. - So we just tried to do the wisest thing we could do in that moment and that's what we did. And I don't regret it, but at the same time I look back and say, "Oh, well the things we were worried about, we were a little early on." Yeah. Okay, so with all of this information you just shared about inflation, what can the couples listening do to talk about it? How does one talk about finances in light of world stage stuff? Like, what do we do? - Yeah, what have we done? I was gonna ask you- - What do I do? - What do we do? - We talk about it. Even when we don't really understand everything, every aspect, we try to, we try and dig in and, you know, look at the news and talk to friends, like you said. - There's been a lot of prayer. - A lot of prayer. - Because, how many times I just pray, "God, I have no idea what to do, please help me. We can't fix this." - Something that's really encouraged me is we reassure one another to trust in the Lord. And that's always helpful for me, 'cause I tend to be more of a fearful- Or, you know, I get anxious thoughts and stuff, and so reminding each other to rely on the Lord is really important. - Yeah, and it's something that is gonna remind us. I think we talked about, in episode one of this season, about how sometimes we can look in hindsight and just see so clearly all the decisions we made and think, "Why did we make those decisions? Why didn't we make this decision?" - Right. - And we kind of like judge ourselves on like, "Oh, we failed," or "We did all this bad stu-" or, "We didn't make any good decisions." Reminding each other that we did try with the knowledge we had in the situations we were in. - Right. - To make wise decisions. - Yeah. - We did try. - Yeah. - And also, hey, sometimes there was decisions we made and let's learn from it rather than just keep kicking ourselves down. - Right. Yeah, that's good. And then there's things that we can do. So in the talking about it, like, "Hey, what is happening in our finances?" There's also the talking about what can change or what can be done to help relieve some of those pain points- - I drive way more, because- - No. - Oh wait, I mean- - Drive way less. - Drive way less, because gas prices. - This is a serious conversation, and I know it's hard, but, like, what sacrifices can be made? What things can be done that you weren't doing that could help the situation of finances? You know, maybe it's taking a break from some extracurricular thing or putting things on pause for a little bit that maybe you'd like to do, but now's not a good time. - Yeah, we talked about, a few seasons ago, date night ideas because we were big advocates on regular date nights, but with money being tight, regular date nights in the way we may usually do it, going to dinner or doing something like that, may not be appropriate. - We actually took a break for a good chunk of months. - I feel like we- - For a while. - For like a year. It wasn't a year. - No, but it felt like it. - It was for a while. - Yeah, taking breaks from maybe dates that cost money. - Swapping babysitters with friends. - Yeah, swapping baby- That that's another thing, babysitters cost money. And so swapping with friends, but just getting creative with our lifestyle is a big deal to address the issue of not having enough money in a certain season. - Yeah. - So a verse that we can remember, it's a verse in 1 Timothy where Paul's talking to Timothy about how he addresses certain people in the church, but there's a principle here that we can glean from. It's in 1 Timothy 6:17, it says, "As for the rich, in this present age, charge them not to be haughty, nor to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but on God who richly provides us with everything to enjoy." And so he's talking to Timothy about like, "Hey, there's wealthy people in the church, encourage them with this." But I wanna put this out there that if we live in America, now I know that everyone's on varying levels of wealth or income, but we're very fortunate to live in a country that has free commerce and we can start businesses and we can invest and we're still currently fairly free people and we're wealthy in many other ways than just money. And I wanna remind us of that, and especially as believers, guys, we are rich in Christ. We are rich in God and we need to remember that. And we're not to put our hope in the uncertainty of riches, of money, of gaining more and more and more. It is not our strong tower. In the proverbs that says that a fool sees his riches as his strong tower. They're not. Having a little or a lot of money is not what keeps us, it's Christ that keeps us. And that's what his encouragement here is, is that let's put our hope on God who richly provides us with everything to enjoy. - So when we say things like, "Put our hope in God," or, "Put our trust in God," that's not, like, something that we just wake up every day and say, "Okay, my hope's in God," and then carry on with the things we like to do for entertainment or go have fun. - Yeah, just keep going and not changing at all. - So like there is that tension of saying my hope and trust is in the Lord, but I still have all these responsibilities and job. - Yeah. - And, you know, gotta work hard to do and provide. - Well, I put that in the category of testing God. We're told never to test the Lord, not to put Him to the test. So it's like, "I trust God, therefore I'm just gonna rack up my credit card and not worry about it, and He'll figure it out." No, it's, "I'm gonna walk in wisdom because my hope's in God. These things that I crave and desire, I'm gonna say no to because I can't afford them and I don't need them 'cause my hope's in God, I can make these changes that feel really hard and painful and scary, but my hope and trust is in God," I think that's more what it's talking about. - Yeah, yeah, okay, just clarifying. So were you on Mark 4:19? - Yeah, there's another verse in the parables of the seed in the soil. The Sower and the Seed, in Mark 4:19. Verses 18 and 19, actually. It says, "And others are the ones sown among the thorns. They are those who hear the Word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches and the desires of other things enter in and choke the Word and it proves unfruitful." This is another danger and a principle on when it comes to money and the cares of the world, is that when we focus on that only, we're being deceived because riches are deceitful, they come and they go, the proverbs say. As fast as it's here is as fast as it's gone. So if we're looking forward to that next, like, "Oh, all we need is this," then we've forgotten that we're to rely on every word that comes out at the mouth of God for our sustenance, for our security, for everything we need. And so that Word that's trying to work in us, God's Word that's trying to work in us, it can be choked out by us just having our eyes on our cares, on our worries, on seeking after money and the desires of all the things that we crave in this life, and it chokes it, it chokes it out. And then that Word can't produce fruit in our lives. So if all we're focusing on is the inflation, oh my goodness, the gas prices, oh my goodness. If those are the only thing that we're worried or caring about, then we're gonna forget what God might be trying to do inside of us right now through this season. - All right, so this next question is for our listeners. How do we keep marriage thriving under financial burden or strain? So when there is that weight of expectation and responsibility and just, ugh. - Tightness of things? - Yeah, how does a marriage keep going? What do we do? - I think on a very simple level, we ask each other questions. - Yeah. - So we meet each other face-to-face, we talk. We kind of already touched on that earlier, but, like, we ask even just, "How are you doing?" and giving each other the room to comfort each other, to encourage one another. We ask, "What can we do about it?" What can we do about this thing that we're under the weight of? - Yeah, the what can we do about it, I know the men, we like to jump on- - Solutions. - Hey, let's do the solutions- - Let's fix it. - But as a man, jumping off your last question to me about how do I deal with trying to not overdo it pursuing finances, and then trusting God and pursuing Him. - Yeah. - I really appreciate it when you ask me how I'm doing with these things. When you recognize that, that is a heavy weight. And I know that there're probably some of you listening that the wives also bring in money and that's very common these days, and to be honest, me and you, we work together, so the money comes from both of us, but the burden of managing it is on my shoulders. - Yeah. - And when you recognize that, when you know that I'm constantly thinking about that and, like, trying to figure out what we're gonna be doing and how we're gonna take care of it and manage all these things, I do appreciate that. - Cool. - So I think that's a good question to ask your spouse, whoever you know might have that burden on their shoulders. - Cool. - Yeah. - I think a follow up to that is, what else can I do that would help alleviate stress in another area, because I might not be able to take this huge weight off your shoulders right now. - Right. - But is there another area of your life- Like, can I go clean and organize your garage for you? Or can I- - You can absolutely go clean and organize my garage. - I'm just saying, like, let's put eyes and hearts on what can we do to minimize some of the other stress points in life, because when it's hard enough to handle one thing, all the other things do the compound effect and that's hard. - I think, and I don't know if this goes for everyone, but for our situation, for our relationship, I know that there are things that are on your mind. We were just talking about it tonight, about all the things in our life that we need done. - Yeah. - And not that you can't bring them up and remind me and say, "Hey, we have things to do. We got a list, let's, you know, figure out a way to chip at it," like we talked about in the last episode, pace, about slowly, you know, chipping away at stuff. Recognizing that there might be a heavier load that I need to bear and not, like, heaping stuff on top of it. - Ah. - And I'm not trying to beat around the bush, I'm just saying, I think other husbands might feel that way of, like, because there's all these other things sometimes the way we might respond is, I'm anxious and I'm overwhelmed so I'm gonna dump all this stuff I'm overwhelmed with on my spouse, because I want them to help me figure it out or I need help. And then forgetting that they also have a bunch of things that they're stressed and overwhelmed about that they may not be saying anything. So just being aware of that and- - I think that's really good. - Communicating well. - I think it's good for me to hear that. - Evaluating what's necessary. - Yeah. - And saying, "Hey, how can I make the load-" Like you said, "How can I make the load less?" - Yeah. That's really good. Cool, well, I think another important aspect to all of this is just understanding that we both make mistakes, especially when it comes to money. And when both people, you know- - You mean like the paintball gun I bought once 'cause I just really- - Okay, that was a long time ago, I'm not holding that against you. But yes, he did do that once when we had no money. - Not that buying paintball gun's bad, but I shouldn't have bought it then. - It was bad timing. When we have access to funds, like, there's times that we make mistakes or we make a purchase that maybe we shouldn't have, and I just wanna encourage us to be people of humility and recognizing that none of us are perfect and it's something that we can all walk through with grace. - Yeah. - And say, "Okay, well we shouldn't have done that, but let's move on." What do you always say? Do the next right thing? - Yeah, let's do the next right thing. - How do we reconcile this? - Yeah. That's a good point. And we've been talking about this a lot, and again, instead of kicking ourselves for past mistakes, let's practice learning from them and say, "Okay, we did make that mistake. We're gonna admit it, but we're gonna let it teach us." - Yeah. - Because that's so much better than just self-loathing or self-defeat. - Yeah. - Learning from our mistakes is what, I believe, God would want for us, is to grow. - Yeah. - I'd say there's one more powerful aspect to marriage that I wanna bring up that can really help carry you guys through a stressful time with finances, and that's understanding the power of your unity in marriage because when you start to blame each other or pinpoint, "Oh, this debt is your fault," or, "This problem is your fault." - Yeah, teamwork. - Or, "This decision is your fault," it just starts to crumble from there, and I know that from experience, 'cause I did this to Aaron back in the early days of our marriage and I blamed him for a lot of the burden, the financial burden, that was on us. But what I realized is when we can team up and work together, no matter who's at fault, 'cause that part doesn't matter. the part that matters now is that you're one and that you're working together to get out from under it. That's what works, there's power in that. - Well, and isn't that the verse in Ecclesiastes? - Yes, yes, go read chapter four. - Two are more profitable. - Yep. - Jennifer brought up that we're gonna talk about cryptocurrency- - Sorry, we ran out of time. - Yeah, no, we're gonna talk about it real quick. And here's why I'm bringing it up. So, cryptocurrency or stocks or investing, real estate. I just wanna mention, I know not everyone's in a place that they might be in to be able to invest. You maybe don't have a lot of extra cash, liquid cash. I just want y'all to know that to have a mindset of investing long term, whatever that looks like, is a very good thing, I think. - You're not saying it has to be crypto, you're just saying- - No. - In general, long term investing. - And this is why I say this. - What can be done? Yeah. - There are things that we have invested in over the years, little bit here, or a lot, you know, whenever we could, that I'm looking at now that are very helpful. - Yeah. - In this season where things are tighter. Not that I wanna just go liquidate things, but I could if I needed to. - Yeah. - So I'm just putting that wisdom out there that having that mindset of putting a little bit somewhere, not just in a savings account that's yielding you 0.0001% - It's like that legacy living. - Yeah, it's thinking longer term than just tomorrow. - Yeah. - Which is not, again, I did not get taught this necessarily growing up, I didn't get taught this in school. That's why we're bringing it up, cryptocurrency. - Okay, but cryptocurrency, 'cause you were saying that in general, but cryptocurrency, some people, this is their first or second time hearing this word and they're like, "What are you talking about? What does this have to do with marriage?" - Well, they're gonna hear about it more and more over the years. They just are, it's gonna become more and more mainstream. I learned about cryptocurrency for the first time back in 2015, 2016, I was- - You'd come home all excited, I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. - I was consulting with some dudes, they were really cool guys, and they had a Bitcoin mining machine, okay. I still don't actually know what they do, but I heard about it back in 2015. If I would've invested back in 2015- - That's a whole other story. - But that's- - Shoulda, woulda, coulda. - Shoulda, woulda, couldas. But I learned about it then, but it wasn't until 2020 that I really- - Yeah, 'cause there was this huge crash in the markets. - Yeah. - And then you started kind of- - I'll get there in a second. I'll get there in a second. - Hold on, I gotta explain. Aaron's got this very research nature about him and when he gets excited about something he dives all in and he can't stop or shut off his brain until he understands that thing and say, okay- - Only a few things. - Okay, things you really care about. - So real quick, cryptocurrency, it's a digital currency in which transactions are verified and records maintained by a decentralized system using cryptography. Again, stuff that I don't really know about. Rather than being a centralized authority. So our currency that we have, the US Dollar, is managed by the United States, a centralized authority. Cryptocurrency is managed by lots of people- - All over the world. - Lots of computers, all over the world. So it's decentralized. And that's essentially the idea of what cryptocurrency is. And cryptocurrency is built on this idea of a thing called blockchain. Blockchain is a system in which a record of transactions made in Bitcoin, or another cryptocurrency, are maintained across several computers that are linked in peer-to-peer network. - Simplify. - Essentially, again, I'm learning all this this stuff as I go, it's a ledger. It's like this, if you think about, like a spreadsheet. Just with line items, columns. But it lasts forever. - Okay. - And so imagine- - It's a record. - It's a record. So imagine this, I give you $1 bill. It's a freshly printed dollar bill. Now imagine if you can keep a precise record of every hand that dollar bill passes through. - So you give that dollar to me for something- - And it remembers me and it remembers you. - And then I pass it off to someone else and it keeps going. - But it also keeps track of what it was spent on, when it was spent on, where it was spent on, And so on, forever. - Hold on, doesn't that scare you a little bit? - It's terrifying. But this is the future of money. This is where money is going. Almost every government in the world is planning on doing some form of digital currency. The United States is already working on a digital dollar and there's already 10,000 or so cryptocurrencies in the world being traded currently. So, the reason we're sharing all this with you is because it's something that I've been passionate about for the last few years. Again, I'm not telling you what to do, don't say, "Aaron told me to go buy cryptocurrency," but I do think you should be considering investing a little bit, if you can, somewhere. That's something you should think about and pray about. - I'll say this as a wife, like, we've had some really interesting conversations about cryptocurrency. - Yes, we have very. - Very interesting. - But it's been something that we've been having fun learning about together. - Yeah. - But some processes I wanna put in your plate when it comes to this idea of investing. Before we decide to put money anywhere, let alone crypto, what have we done? - We talk about it for a long time. - Together. - We talk about it. - Yeah. - We go through all the pros, cons. - Yep. - This, that, I don't understand, wait a minute. - And then we agreed about it, we agreed on something. We said, "We're going to do X." - Yeah. - "We're going to invest this." Thirdly, we made sure to use expendable funds. - So this was stuff that if all went haywire and we lost, it wouldn't put us in a position that put our family at risk of financial ruin. - I didn't take all of our paychecks and dump it into this and like, "Oh, we can't buy food." So, those are some principles to consider when thinking about investing in anything. Are you talking about it? Have you made a plan? Do you have available funds that you are willing, this is the keyword, are willing to lose? - Yeah. And do research, like just- - Yeah. - You gotta, you can't just rely on someone else's word, but, like, really dig in and see what everybody's word is on it. - This is a famous term- - Do what you can. - All the articles I read on trading, it always says do your own research. - Yeah. - 'Cause no one wants be liable. for your trade and you lose money, I don't wanna be liable for that either. So do your own research. Just some things to know about cryptocurrency, specifically. - More stats? - It's extremely volatile. - Oh. - So it's like, it's not like the stock market where you're dropping like 10%, 5%, and then you're going up 10%, 5%, 2%. This is like, you can go up 10000% or you could drop 100%. And it's like that, it's crazy, it's like the Wild West. So just know that, do your research. Also, if you are gonna get into cryptocurrency, get in to it for the technology rather than the means to get rich. So understand, whatever that currency you're looking at, what its purpose is, what does it do? - What Aaron's saying, these blockchains that they're built upon- - They're technologies. - They're technology and they're actually used for- - Well, some of them, not all of them. - Some of them are used for other things. - But some of them are very useful, very smart. Here's some quick stats for you, just because you're probably thinking like, "Okay, what's this deal with cryptocurrency?" - More so, they're like, "How long is this episode?" - In 2016, there were 5 million people worldwide who owned crypto, this year there's now more than 320 million. - That's crazy. - People, worldwide who own cryptocurrency. That's a 6300% increase. From 2016 to today. 13% of the US owns crypto, that's a pretty big chunk, it's over 10%. - I was thinking that there's still a lot of people that aren't in it. - Well, there is, there's still, you know, 87%. So, here's some stats on the owners of cryptocurrency, 63% are male, 37% female, 72% aged under 34. So again, we should always take note of like, what are the young generation, what are they investing in, engaging in? - What are they interested in? - What are they interested in? 71% have a bachelor's degree or higher. - Okay. - How crazy is that? - Yeah. - I didn't know that. The average crypto owner earns about 25,000 per year. Also crazy. So these are just some average stats across the whole board. Again, not everyone earns money. But so, we just wanted to bring that up because that's something that we've been interested in. It has been on some levels a blessing to us and it's been fun to learn, and it's a pretty awesome thing to be learning about. - But more than that- - Researching. - You really believe that the future has crypto in its, like- - Yes, I do. - Within reach, it's like- - Especially if you read the Bible. I look at it and say, okay, this plays into all the things that I consider- - Interesting. - When it comes to world events. - Is that another episode that we need to flesh out? - I feel like we did an episode last season I think, on end times stuff. So again, we know that not everyone has a lot of money to invest, but there are ways to invest, maybe not in crypto, maybe not in real estate, but, you know, you could put $100 here, or $10 there into something that's going to grow. Maybe that's a friend's business. Maybe you have a friend that wants to start a candle business or a soap making business, or, who knows, a crocheting business. Maybe say, "Hey, can I help you a little bit?" And, you know, work out something with them. Another good way to invest is in yourself. This is a note that you put down I thought was really good about getting out of debt. - Living a debt-free lifestyle, yeah. - Yeah, living- - That's a huge investment. - It is, 'cause imagine if you, so you have this, let's say you have a $100 payment on a credit card. You get rid of that credit card, now you have $100 more dollars in your bank account. That's a pretty good investment in my opinion. So, investing in your family and yourself in that way is a pretty awesome thing to chip away at debt. - All right, well, I think we've spent a long in-depth time on this topic and I'm really grateful for it. We've had a lot of good conversation in our own marriage about finances and it's helped me grow to understand more about the world of money, and so we just wanna be an encouragement to you guys listening to go home and talk about it with your spouse. Maybe if you need to re-listen to this episode with them, alongside them, it would be a really great way to, like we said in the beginning, ignite that fire of conversation and just see where each other's at, see where each other are at, and evaluate your finances. Be willing to talk about the hard things, ask each other, "How are you doing?" Or, "How can I help alleviate this stress that you've been experiencing?" Even if it's in another area of marriage, because all these things matter. - And then be asking yourself, which is why we brought up cryptocurrency is, as a family, how can we be thinking for the future? How can we be preparing so that our kids- - Yeah. - May be better off than we are and leaving that legacy of understanding of finances and how to use it. - Well, when we understand finances and we use wisdom, we become a light in this world and people take notice and they wanna know how are you doing that thing? Or why are you doing it like that? And our answer is God. And therefore we become a light in this world and we become good stewards of what He's entrusted to us. So, all good things. - Last note. - We can't keep going. - Have to. That's why we care about money, not because we love money, but because we know how God can use it. - Yep. - And, like we say in our book, it's a tool to be used for God's glory. - Amen. - So. - Very good. - Challenge. - Okay, moving on. Weekly challenge. First of all, I just wanna let everyone know, 'cause it's a cliff hanger. We did the challenge from the last two weeks and so we didn't get to go do a pickle ball because we got hit with some major fires here in Central Oregon. - And there's tons of smoke. - And it's just really bad outside. I've even had a headache from it, but we did do a game, we played Boggle. - Boggle. I've never played it before. - Yeah, and we'll never say who won. Moving right along, Aaron won. We played a couple of rounds of that. - It took us a couple rounds to figure out how to play it. We're like, "This game doesn't make any sense." - It's a good two player game, it was fun. - It was. - And then we worked out together. We did some lifting. - Little 20 minute, little quick, little workout. - Some rowing, it was great. - So we did it. So this week's challenge is dream together about something you both love and enjoy, or about future business ideas or whatever it is that you guys just- What's a dream you have together that you guys can be discussing and figuring out? - Yeah, a simple question to answer is, what is something that excites you about next year? - Oh, that's a good point. - Yeah. - Yeah, the prospect of cheaper gas, hopefully. - So this can be setting a goal or dreaming, it doesn't really mean it has to happen, it's just being creative with one another. Aaron and I like to do this from time to time, we dream about our retirement plan, which- - Which is not really a retirement plan. - We don't know if it'll ever happen, but it does involve donuts. - It does actually. You just gave our secret away. - I know, because why not? - Yes, our retirement plan does involve donuts. - Okay, also, if you have the "Marriage After God" book, or your planning on getting it, you can read through or skim chapter 13 together if you want, because it's all about dreaming together. - All about dreaming together. We're gonna end with a prayer. Dear Lord, thank You for all of the ways You have provided for us. Thank You for our finances, our jobs, and helping us provide for our families. Thank You for the times other people have helped us, encouraged us, advised us, and supported us through hard times. We pray we would be people who would be eager and ready to be used by You to help others who are in need. We pray You would give us wisdom in handling and managing our finances. Please teach us the best ways to save and spend what we have. We pray we would learn to invest in ways that work out for our family. We pray we would be able to build up all that we have to bless generations of families that come after us. When the world experiences crisis and it interrupts our finances, when inflation causes tension, when hard times create a burden of stress, we pray we would remain humble and steadfast. We pray we would trust in You. Please help us to encourage one another in the areas of finance. We pray we would trust each other in marriage with money and protect our hearts from greed. Lord, we pray for wisdom and continual growth, in Jesus' name, amen. - Thank you for joining us for another episode of the "Marriage After God" podcast. - If you found today's episode fun and encouraging, please take a moment to share it on social media or in an email to some of your married friends. - Also, would you please take a moment and leave us a review? Reviews help to spread the word about our podcast. - Be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode and you can always check out more of our resources at marriageaftergod.com. - You can follow us on social media for more marriage encouragement on Facebook and Instagram @MarriageAfterGod, @HusbandRevolution and @Unveiledwife. - We hope you have an incredible week and look forward to sharing more with you next week on the "Marriage After God" podcast.   Connect With UsInstagram | @marriageaftergodInstagram | @unveiledwifeInstagram | @husbandrevolutionCheck out our marriage resources!SponsorsGet our new book The Marriage Gift - 365 prayers for your marriage!Our Sponsors:* Check out Mr. Pen and use my code MAG10 for a great deal: https://mrpen.comSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/marriage-after-god-biblical-advice-practical-tips-and-inspiring-/donations