Software Process and Measurement Cast

Thomas M. Cagley Jr
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Jun 30, 2019 • 40min

SPaMCAST 553 - Prioritization and Capability, An Interview with Jim Benson

SPaMCAST 553 features our interview with Jim Benson. Jim and I focused on prioritization and how prioritization can be a reflection of more deep-seated problems. One of the ideas Jim shares is that processes are the social contract for getting work done. I really enjoy talking with Jim and think you will enjoy the conversation. During the close of the interview, Jim talks about Modus Cooperandi's class on prioritization. Jim has extended a discount code for listeners of the podcast for all of the MI classes. The code is SPAMCAST20 or you can use the link: https://modusinstitute.com/p/me-what-do-i-do-next/?coupon_code=SPAMCAST20 Jim's Bio: Jim's career path has taken him through government agencies, Fortune 10 corporations, and start-ups. Through them all, his passion has remained consistent – applying new technologies to workgroups. In each case asking how they can be leveraged to collaborate and cooperate more effectively. Jim loves ideas, creation, and building opportunities. He loves working with teams who are passionate about the future, pushing boundaries, and inclusion. His goal with all technologies is to increase beneficial contact between people and reduce the bureaucratic noise which so often tends to increase costs and destroy creativity. Jim is the author of the Shingo Research Award-winning book Personal Kanban (use the link to buy a copy and support the podcast). He is a noted expert in business process, personal work management, and the application of Lean to personal work and life. Jim believes that the best process is the least process necessary to achieve goals. He has zero tolerance for process waste. All said, Jim enjoys helping people and teams work out sticky problems, an advocate of people actually seeing their work, and inventing new ways to work at the intersection of Lean thinking, brain science, and leadership. Contact Jim Twitter: https://twitter.com/ourfounder LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimbenson Personal Kanban: http://www.personalkanban.com/pk/#sthash.MtOA96sV.dpbs Modus Cooperandi: http://moduscooperandi.com/ Re-Read Saturday News Today we dive into the concept of the Law of Small Numbers, chapter 10 in our re-read of Thinking, Fast and Slow. I found this chapter particularly useful because I see the results in the process improvement world nearly every day. It is great to experiment but make sure you get enough observations so that when you draw a conclusion it will be correct. Remember, if you do not have a favorite, dog-eared copy of Thinking, Fast and Slow, please buy a copy. Using the links in this blog entry helps support the blog and its alter-ego, The Software Process and Measurement Cast. Buy a copy on Amazon, It's time to get reading! The installments: Week 1: Logistics and Introduction – http://bit.ly/2UL4D6h Week 2: The Characters Of The Story – http://bit.ly/2PwItyX Week 3: Attention and Effort – http://bit.ly/2H45x5A Week 4: The Lazy Controller – http://bit.ly/2LE3MQQ Week 5: The Associative Machine – http://bit.ly/2JQgp8I Week 6: Cognitive Ease – http://bit.ly/2VTuqVu Week 7: Norms, Surprises, and Causes – http://bit.ly/2Molok2 Week 8: A Machine for Jumping to Conclusions - http://bit.ly/2XOjOcx Week 9: How Judgement Happens and Answering An Easier Question - http://bit.ly/2XBPaX3 Week 10: Law of Small Numbers - http://bit.ly/2JcjxtI Next SPaMCAST SPaMCAST 554 will feature our essay on the misuse of the word 'collaboration', and how to recognize when are talking about something else (like a lecture). We will also hear from Gene Hughson!
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Jun 23, 2019 • 21min

SPaMCAST 552 - Fit For Value, Saying No, Essays and Discussions

SPaMCAST 552 features our essay on the idea of "fit for purpose" and its impact on the definition of quality. Even if you don't deliver any defects, not being fit for purpose wipes quality off the board. BOOM! (Rather read the essay? http://bit.ly/2wZxkxX) In the second spot this week, Jon M Quigley delivers with his Alpha and Omega of Product Development! In this installment, Jon discusses the need to say no. A simple straight forward word that is nearly impossible to use in polite company. Re-Read Saturday News Today, two stories…ops, the wrong column…today we take on two chapters in our re-read of Thinking, Fast and Slow, chapters 8 and 9: How Judgment Happens and Answering An Easier Question. I would be interested in your feedback on the depth in this entry compared to previous entries. Remember, if you do not have a favorite, dog-eared copy of Thinking, Fast and Slow, please buy a copy. Using the links in this blog entry helps support the blog and its alter-ego, The Software Process and Measurement Cast. Buy a copy on Amazon, It's time to get reading! The installments: Week 1: Logistics and Introduction – http://bit.ly/2UL4D6h Week 2: The Characters Of The Story – http://bit.ly/2PwItyX Week 3: Attention and Effort – http://bit.ly/2H45x5A Week 4: The Lazy Controller – http://bit.ly/2LE3MQQ Week 5: The Associative Machine – http://bit.ly/2JQgp8I Week 6: Cognitive Ease – http://bit.ly/2VTuqVu Week 7: Norms, Surprises, and Causes – http://bit.ly/2Molok2 Week 8: A Machine for Jumping to Conclusions - http://bit.ly/2XOjOcx Week 9: How Judgement Happens and Answering An Easier Question - http://bit.ly/2XBPaX3 Next SPaMCAST SPaMCAST 553 will feature our interview with Jim Benson. We will discuss prioritization and how prioritization can be a reflection of more deep-seated problems. Life changing ideas in a powerful interview.
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Jun 16, 2019 • 32min

SPaMCAST 551 - Agile and Leadership; An Interview With Michael Lynn

SPaMCAST 551 features our interview with Michael (Mike) Lynn. Mike and I talked about leadership and agile. Leadership is important any time two or more people get together to pursue a goal. Mike shares his expertise, experience, and wisdom to help shine a light on the relationship between agile and leadership. Mike's Bio Mike Lynn is a seasoned learning/leadership/organizational development professional with close to 30 years experience, including nine years with McKinsey and Company. He provides executive coaching and custom consulting services, and is a principal of thoughtLEADERS, a global leadership development training firm offering a full menu of programs to help leaders think, communicate and succeed. Mike has deep expertise and passion in structured executive thinking and decision-making as well as interpersonal success strategies (e.g., meeting leadership, tough conversations, coaching and feedback, presentation delivery, upward management, etc.) His learning specialties are in the areas of executive coaching, team facilitation, training design and delivery (classroom and online). For individual clients, Mike's coaching approach is rooted in strategic focus and deep understanding of how leaders' unique individual preferences and approaches drive priorities, successes, challenges, and stresses across multiple leadership dimensions. Contact Mike at lynnlearningcollaborations@gmail.com. Learn more about thoughtLEADERS training programs at www.thoughtleadersllc.com Re-Read Saturday News And we are back! This week we re-read Chapter 7 of Thinking, Fast and Slow, A Machine for Jumping to Conclusions.. Logistics note: every time I think I can get to a two chapters a week cadence with this book, I find that hit a chapter that I really think is full of ideas that will be useful for thinking about how people behave and how change can be facilitated and feel that I need to spend more time with it. Maybe next week! Remember, if you do not have a favorite, dog-eared copy of Thinking, Fast and Slow, please buy a copy. Using the links in this blog entry helps support the blog and its alter-ego, The Software Process and Measurement Cast. Buy a copy on Amazon, It's time to get reading! The installments: Week 1: Logistics and Introduction – http://bit.ly/2UL4D6h Week 2: The Characters Of The Story – http://bit.ly/2PwItyX Week 3: Attention and Effort – http://bit.ly/2H45x5A Week 4: The Lazy Controller – http://bit.ly/2LE3MQQ Week 5: The Associative Machine – http://bit.ly/2JQgp8I Week 6: Cognitive Ease – http://bit.ly/2VTuqVu Week 7: Norms, Surprises, and Causes – http://bit.ly/2Molok2 Week 8: A Machine for Jumping to Conclusions - http://bit.ly/2XOjOcx Next SPaMCAST SPaMCAST 552 will feature our essay on quality. We will tackle ideas like "fit for purpose", cost and timing. Messing up on any of these categories can (and often does) mess up quality. We will also have a visit from Jon Quigley!
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Jun 9, 2019 • 18min

SPaMCAST 550 - Conway's Law And Process Improvement, Test Engineers and Testers, Essays and Discussions

SPaMCAST 550 features our essay titled, Intertwining Conway's Law And Agile. Conway's Law trains a spotlight on how an organization's structure impacts the product they ship. The "Law" states that the structure of a software product will mimic the structure of the organization that produces the software. It can (and has) been said that you are shipping the "org structure." How you are structured therefore is going to impact just how much agile you can achieve. We also visit the QA Corner with Jeremy Berriault. Jeremy discusses the differences between test engineers and testers. We also tackle whether every person with the word test in their title should have the ability to code or script. Jeremy's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremy-berriault-mba/ I know this is not the show I promoted last week but my guest, Mike Lynn, is out of pocket this week and wanted to around when the show went live. Not only am I agile, but I am also flexible therefore we are rearranging the lineup! Re-Read Saturday News I am celebrating my birthday this weekend instead of working on the re-read of Thinking, Fast and Slow. We will be back next week, so in the interim, I decided to reprise and revise an entry from 2014 titled Teams and Overly Self-interested Behavior ( http://bit.ly/2I5pPvS) I hope you will enjoy and reflect on the piece! Next SPaMCAST SPaMCAST 551 will feature our interview with Michael (Mike) Lynn (I promise). Mike and I talked about leadership and agile. Leadership is important any time two or more people get together to pursue a goal. Mike shares his expertise, experience, and wisdom to help shine a light on the relationship between agile and leadership.
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Jun 2, 2019 • 20min

SPaMCAST 549 - Seven Issues Testers Experience Being Agile, Distributed Agile, Essays and Discussions

SPaMCAST 549 features our essay Seven Issues Testers Experience Being Agile. Recently I attended the QAI Quest Conference in Chicago, during the conference I got to talk with lots of people from across the development spectrum. From the conversations and workshops, I identified seven common threads that test and quality focused personal experience being or trying to be agile. In order to be agile, not just do agile, we need to tackle these seven issues We also have the completion of Susan Parente's three-installment discussion of distributed agile. In this installment of Not a Scrumdamentalist, Susan discusses tools and whether they are the hurdle some people make them out to be. Re-Read Saturday News This week we re-read Chapter 6 of Thinking, Fast and Slow, Norms, Surprises, and Causes. The chapter continues the deep dive into System 1 thinking. As noted before, System 1 thinking continually is active nearly all of the time making snap decisions based on associated that it has constructed. In Chapter 6 Kahneman asserts that the main role of system one "is to maintain and update a model of your personal world, which represents what is normal in it." The Associative Machine (Chapter 5) defines one mechanism the brain uses to construct a model of the world around us. If you do not have a favorite, dog-eared copy of Thinking, Fast and Slow, please buy a copy. Using the links in this blog entry helps support the blog and its alter-ego, The Software Process and Measurement Cast. Buy a copy on Amazon, It's time to get reading! The installments: Week 1: Logistics and Introduction - http://bit.ly/2UL4D6h Week 2: The Characters Of The Story - http://bit.ly/2PwItyX Week 3: Attention and Effort - http://bit.ly/2H45x5A Week 4: The Lazy Controller - http://bit.ly/2LE3MQQ Week 5: The Associative Machine - http://bit.ly/2JQgp8I Week 6: Cognitive Ease - http://bit.ly/2VTuqVu Week 7: Norms, Surprises, and Causes - http://bit.ly/2Molok2 Next SPaMCAST SPaMCAST 550 will feature our interview with Michael (Mike) Lynn. Mike and I talked about leadership and agile. Leadership is important any time two or more people get together to pursue a goal. Mike shares his expertise, experience, and wisdom to help shine a light on the relationship between agile and leadership. We will also be halfway to show 1100 next week!
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May 26, 2019 • 37min

SPaMCAST 548 - Dynamic Reteaming, An Interview With Heidi Helfand

SPaMCAST 548 features our interview with Heidi Helfand. Heidi and I discussed teams and her book Dynamic Reteaming: The Art and Wisdom of Changing Teams. Heidi challenges the conventional wisdom that in agile (or any walk of life) that you need to keep your teams "the same" in order to be successful. In short, there are no absolutes except for change. Heidi's Bio Heidi Helfand is Director of Engineering Excellence at Procore Technologies, creators of cloud-based construction software. She is the author of the book Dynamic Reteaming: The Art and Wisdom of Changing Teams which challenges the notion that you need to keep your teams "the same" in order to be successful. Heidi was on the first team at two highly successful startups ñ ExpertCity, Inc. (acquired by Citrix) where she was on the teams that invented GoToMyPC, GoToMeeting and GoToWebinar and AppFolio, Inc., a SAAS property management software company. She is a co-active coach certified by the International Coach Federation (ICF). Buy the book! https://leanpub.com/dynamicreteaming Twitter: https://twitter.com/heidihelfand LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/heidihelfand Re-Read Saturday News This week we are re-reading Chapter 5 of Thinking, Fast and Slow, Cognitive Ease. This chapter is full of tactical considerations for how to present information or to influence how teams work. If you do not have a favorite, dog-eared copy of Thinking, Fast and Slow, please buy a copy. Using the links in this blog entry helps support the blog and its alter-ego, The Software Process and Measurement Cast. Buy a copy on Amazon, It's time to get reading! The installments: Week 1: Logistics and Introduction - http://bit.ly/2UL4D6h Week 2: The Characters Of The Story - http://bit.ly/2PwItyX Week 3: Attention and Effort - http://bit.ly/2H45x5A Week 4: The Lazy Controller - http://bit.ly/2LE3MQQ Week 5: The Associative Machine - http://bit.ly/2JQgp8I Week 6: Cognitive Ease - http://bit.ly/2VTuqVu Next SPaMCAST SPaMCAST 549 will feature our essay Seven Issues Testers Experience Being Agile. Recently I attended the QAI Quest Conference in Chicago, during the conference I got to talk with lots of people from across the development spectrum. From the conversations and workshops, I identified seven common threads that test and quality focused personal experience being or trying to be agile. We will also have a column from Susan Parente who brings her Not a Scrumdamentalist column to the cast!
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May 19, 2019 • 19min

SPaMCAST 547 - 8 Causes of Work Entry Problems, False Promises, Essays and Discussions

SPaMCAST 547 returns to our standard staggered approach with a discussion of work entry. The majority of work entry issues are caused by eight problems. The eight problems often occur in clusters and are a reflection of organizational culture. Knowing that there are eight problems is useful so that you can do something about them! Also this week, Kim Pries, the software sensei is back and goes full curmudgeon. Kim states "After 40+ years of software work and lies, I get disgusted when I see yet another rehash of so-called tools that purport to do something valuable. The multi-colored risk analysis "tools" are essentially worthless. To date, I have never seen one of these catch or forestall idiocy on the part of a supplier or a customer. There's no fixing stupid!" Re-Read Saturday News This week we are re-reading Chapter 4 of Thinking, Fast and Slow, The Associative Machine. This chapter begins a deeper dive into the nuances of system 1 thinking. If you do not have a favorite, dog-eared copy of Thinking, Fast and Slow, please buy a copy. Using the links in this blog entry helps support the blog and its alter-ego, The Software Process and Measurement Cast. Buy a copy on Amazon, It's time to get reading! The installments: Week 1: Logistics and Introduction - http://bit.ly/2UL4D6h Week 2: The Characters Of The Story - http://bit.ly/2PwItyX Week 3: Attention and Effort - http://bit.ly/2H45x5A Week 4: The Lazy Controller - http://bit.ly/2LE3MQQ Week 5: The Associative Machine - http://bit.ly/2JQgp8I Next SPaMCAST SPaMCAST 548 will feature our interview with Heidi Helfand. Heidi and I discussed teams and her book Dynamic Reteaming: The Art and Wisdom of Changing Teams. It is time to challenge the conventional wisdom that in agile (or any walk of life) that you need to keep your teams "the same" in order to be successful.
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May 12, 2019 • 40min

SPaMCAST 546 - It's Your Career, Learn And Prosper, An Interview With Michael Milutis

SPaMCAST 546 features our interview with Michael Milutis. Michael and I talk about putting people back in charge of their careers. Michael provides advice that every listener can put to use immediately and in the long run. Michael's Bio: Michael Milutis is an INFP and IT generalist committed to human capital development and continuous learning within a shifting technology landscape. He works with technology organizations from around the world to develop innovative learning cultures and he coaches individuals and teams so that they can develop continuously, grow personally, and realize their highest potential. Since 1997, Michael has worked in marketing, new business development, and L&D for Computer Aid, Inc (CAI), an international IT services and support firm. He is also the creator and director of CAI's "Great IT Professional", an organization devoted to continuous learning and career development within the global IT community. Michael speaks around the world and his keynote presentations focus on digital transformation, adapting to change, continuous learning, workforce engagement, corporate mindfulness, and human self-actualization. You can connect with him on LinkedIn at www.linkedin.com/in/michaelmilutis Re-Read Saturday News This week we re-read Chapter 3 of Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman. One of the core themes in this chapter is the concept of ego depletion. Ego depletion is a theory that self-control, as a form of system 2 thinking, draws from a finite pool of mental resources. When the pool is low, so is self-control. Whether the triggering mechanism is ego depletion or something else is not as important as the observable impact – when people are under mental stress they don't always make the most thoughtful decisions. If you do not have a favorite, dog-eared copy of Thinking, Fast and Slow, please buy a copy. Using the links in this blog entry helps support the blog and its alter-ego, The Software Process and Measurement Cast. Buy a copy on Amazon, It's time to get reading! The installments: Week 1: Logistics and Introduction - http://bit.ly/2UL4D6h Week 2: The Characters Of The Story - http://bit.ly/2PwItyX Week 3: Attention and Effort - http://bit.ly/2H45x5A Week 4: The Lazy Controller - http://bit.ly/2LE3MQQ Next SPaMCAST SPaMCAST 547 will return to our standard staggered approach with an essay on work entry. The majority of work entry problems are caused by eight problems. The eight problems often occur in clusters and are a reflection of organizational culture. Knowing that there are eight problems is useful when they can be recognized. We will also hear from Kim Pries, the Software Sensei!
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May 5, 2019 • 42min

SPaMCAST 545 - Launching New Voices, Women in Agile, An Interview with Cheryl Hammond, Jenny Tarwater, Faye Thompson, and Linda Podder

SPaMCAST 545 we have an interview with Cheryl Hammond, Jenny Tarwater, Faye Thompson, and Linda Podder. We talk about Launching New Voices, Women in Agile, planned activities at Agile 2019 and more. There is a lot of good advice and ideas if you're new to speaking or if you are a seasoned speaker. There is a call to action at the end of the interview. 2019 Women in Agile Conference site https://www.agilealliance.org/events/women-in-agile-2019/ Cheryl Hammond Cheryl Hammond, a.k.a. @bsktcase, has a couple of decades' experience as a software leader in the private and public sectors. She ran her team's successful adoption of Scrum-ban for a mission-critical regulatory compliance project under multi-agency state and federal government oversight, mentored former COBOL devs into true-believing unit-testing XP evangelists, and turned a threatened software product at risk of litigation into a lean, revenue-generating flagship offering in nine months, all of which leads her to believe that anything is possible. She is not sorry for her many biases, including strong preferences for servant-style leadership and team-based, holistic problem-solving and a strong aversion to agile zealotry. Whether consulting or in-house, Cheryl endeavors to make life suck less for software delivery organizations and the humans who inhabit them. Faye Thompson With more than twenty years of project delivery experience, Faye Thompson is a consultant coach and scrum master. With a focus on an agile mindset and continuous improvement, Faye has had a positive impact in the financial services, healthcare, advertising, automotive and aviation industries. Passionate about using innovative solutions to drive business value, she supports workgroups as they transform themselves into highly engaged and energized teams. Faye enjoys serving on the board of directors for the Central Ohio Agile Association and as President of the Women in STEMM Alumni Society of The Ohio State University. She spends her free time volunteering as an emergency medical responder and public affairs coordinator for the American Red Cross. Jenny Tarwater Jenny Tarwater is an International Speaker, Agile Coach, and Trainer local to the Kansas City, Missouri area. Jenny has over 23 years of corporate experience bringing business teams, technical teams, and sponsors together to reliably deliver large-scale development projects with her disciplined approach of cultivating success and growth in people, process and products. Jenny has a passion for driving the adoption and understanding of Agile values, principles, and practices, and her endless motivation drives her involvement in cultivating the "small company startup culture" across organizations large and small. Jenny is a kinetic leader, partner, and consummate student who brings enthusiasm and awareness to projects and keeps teams focused and delivering success in rapidly evolving and dynamic environments. Linda Podder Linda Podder is a passionate learner and experienced Scrum Master at Hyland Software in Westlake, OH. She was instrumental in helping launch Hyland's first SAFe implementation and continues to work with additional SAFe programs as they launch. Linda loves encouraging her teams to explore, innovate, and celebrate their failures just as much as their successes. She is also passionate about empowering her teams to achieve technical excellence through Agile engineering practices. Outside of work, she loves to game with her family and take pictures of her fluffy black cats. Re-Read Saturday News Today we continue the re-read of Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman. This week we re-read chapter 2. Chapter 2 tackles the relationship between effort, attention, and thinking slow. Thinking slow, system 2 thinking, requires effort. That effort must be marshaled and directed which requires attention. The more effort needed, the more attention needed. Attention is a finite resource, therefore, the more we spend on system 2 thinking, less attention available for everything else. A word of warning, don't do higher math while driving! If you do not have a favorite, dog-eared copy of Thinking, Fast and Slow, please buy a copy. Using the links in this blog entry helps support the blog and its alter-ego, The Software Process and Measurement Cast. Buy a copy on Amazon, It's time to get reading! The installments: Week 1: Logistics and Introduction - http://bit.ly/2UL4D6h Week 2: The Characters Of The Story - http://bit.ly/2PwItyX Week 3: Attention and Effort - http://bit.ly/2H45x5A Next SPaMCAST SPaMCAST 546 will feature our interview with Michael Milutis. Michael and I talked about putting people back in charge of their careers. Michael provides advice that every listener can put to use immediately and in the long run.
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Apr 28, 2019 • 40min

SPaMCAST 544 - Measuring and Predicting Performance, An Interview with Jeppe Hedaa

SPaMCAST 544 features our interview with Jeppe Hedaa. Mr. Hedaa and I discuss his new book, Nucleon: The Missing Formula That Measures Your IT Development Team's Performance. Our discussion centers on the book but also touches on meritocracy and why you want top performers on a team. This is a wide-ranging interview with thought-provoking ideas as we talk about Nucleon! Jeppe's bio: Jeppe Hedaa has been working with complex systems development for more than 30 years, serving the largest IT development departments. He is the CEO and owner of 7N, who is an agent for top 3% IT specialists. 7N has departments in the US, Switzerland, Finland, Sweden, Norway, Poland, India and Denmark. In September 2018 he published the book "Nucleon: The missing formula that measures your IT department's performance", where he describes how to calculate a hard number for an IT team's performance that could best be compared to that of horsepower in a car. In the book, he also measures the factors that hold back an organization's delivery and identifies the most impactful areas for improvement. Our review of Nucleon: http://bit.ly/2XQvB9T Nucleon: https://www.nucleonformula.com/ 7N: https://www.7n.com/ Buy a copy of the book: https://amzn.to/2DNJBJZ As a reminder - I am doing a workshop on value chains at QAI Quest 2019 (May 13 - 19 in Chicago). Do you need a discount? Register at www.qaiQuest2019 using the code Speaker10. Let me know and we will do a hangout with Jeremy and myself! Re-Read Saturday News Today we continue the re-read of Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman. This week we tackle chapter 1. The core of chapter 1 is the definition of fast and slow thinking. This is also known as system 1 and 2 thinking. These are the characters in Kahneman's book. Software development is a constant stream of choices and decisions, so determining which decisions can safely be driven by judgment and which require conscious choice is an important part of any process improvement or transformation. If you do not have a favorite, dog-eared copy of Thinking, Fast and Slow, please buy a copy. Using the links in this blog entry helps support the blog and its alter-ego, The Software Process and Measurement Cast. Buy a copy on Amazon, It's time to get reading! This week's installment: Week 1: Logistics and Introduction - http://bit.ly/2UL4D6h Week 2: The Characters Of The Story - http://bit.ly/2PwItyX Next SPaMCAST We are going to veer off course a bit for SPaMCAST 545. By rights, 545 should be a magazine show with columns, discussion, and essays, however, on April 24th I had the great fortune to interview Cheryl Hammond, Jenny Tarwater, Faye Thompson, and Linda Podder. We discussed Launching New Voices, Women in Agile, planned activities at Agile 2019 and more. There is a time-sensitive call to action in the podcast next week.

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