Ryan Lucht, marketing lead at Eppo and expert in experimentation, dives into the concept of spaghetti testing, arguing its value in optimizing marketing strategies. He shares insights on the necessity of conducting more tests for meaningful data and the frustrations that come with roles in experimentation. The conversation highlights what can be learned from mature testing programs and emphasizes the importance of fostering a culture of experimentation within organizations to drive innovation.

What does it ACTUALLY mean to be "data driven", and are #CROs adequately data driven? Should we be MORE data driven? Are there some opportunities for us to actually leverage intuition more? Will Shiva keep asking Bhavik "The Sick" loaded questions? Short answer? Yes. Bhavik "The Sick" Patel and Shiva Manjunath discuss this pretty interesting topic, which may seem controversial, but there is actually a decent amount of truth to it. We got into: -What it ACTUALLY means to be data driven. Spoiler: the bar is pretty freaking high - Where are the legitimate (and not so legitimate) ways to utilize "intuition" in the CRO process - Your coworkers with domain expertise MAY have a point to override (some) data. As long as it's not entirely ego driven, we should hear them out! To be clear - we definitely aren't saying "throw away all data and never use it - trust intuition always forever for everything". There is some middle ground to be had, with some very legitimate reasons (some practical, some not) to introducing 'expertise' into the conversation IN ADDITION with data. There is always some middle ground 🙈 Timestamps: 00:00 Episode Start 02:39 Picking The Wrong Metrics = Not Data Driven 6:25 Being "Data Driven" is a High Bar to Clear 13:09 Do CROs NEED to be... TOO Data Driven? 19:13 When the Results Don't Align With Basic Intuition (e.g. Twyman's law) 24:22 Post-Production Shiva Clarifies what HARKing Really Means 33:13 A Good CRO Has A Healthy Amount of Skepticism - Even When The Results Make Sense 43:03 Shit You Need to Know: Nils Stotz Go follow Bhavik LinkedIn. - https://www.linkedin.com/in/dodonerd/ Make sure you go follow Nils Stotz and check out his post too! https://tinyurl.com/FromAtoBNils If you have listener questions, submit them at https://tinyurl.com/askfromatob for a chance to be featured too!

Matt Green, a growth product owner at Form Assembly, and Moshe Mikanovsky, a product director and coach, dive deep into the distinctive yet overlapping worlds of product management and conversion rate optimization (CRO). They explore how effective communication can bolster team dynamics and foster trust. The duo humorously examines unexpected lessons from sociopaths and how they can enhance stakeholder management. Plus, they reveal the critical role of A/B testing in driving successful product strategies and the importance of collaboration in navigating uncertainties.

CROs are infallible. We believe data! We trust science over opinions! We are LITERALLY never wrong, right? Well, sometimes we may be right, but we can still be rude about it. 🫣 And no one wants to work with that one guy who, while they may be right, has to let everyone know how right they are EVERY. DAMN. TIME. I enlisted the help of Michael Aagaard, nicknamed "Shrek" (for very good reasons...) to explore how it is that some #CROs may actually be problematic. And how their own behavior may actually be the reason why CRO and experimentation isn't being adopted or used in an organization. We got into: - Messaging and tone matters. You may be right, but HOW you say it may be the difference between "let's run that test" and "I fucking hate that idea" - You're in the wrong industry if you are "testing to be right" - Balancing "confidence" without being "arrogant" as a CRO Timestamps: 00:00 Episode Start 04:46 Soft Skills Which Indicate You May Be a Bad CRO 13:05 Collaboration is Key - SEEKING Out That Collaboration Is King 18:26 It's Not What You Say - It's How You Say It 26:05 Risk Tolerance IS Different for Everyone - Don't Project YOUR Risk Tolerance for Others 33:25 Shit You Need to Know: Jason Haddock (How Layoffs Impact CRO) Go follow Michael Aagaard on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/michalaagaard/)! And go check out Jason's post too! (https://tinyurl.com/FromAtoBJason) If you have listener questions, submit them at https://tinyurl.com/askfromatob for a chance to be featured too!

Are you doing 'strategic #CRO' ? What the hell even is strategic CRO? And how do you get there? Well, Talia Wolf had a post previously that triggered this discussion, so I had her on to better flesh out this idea. If you want to learn how to get from tactical to strategic experimentation, this is a can't miss episode. Plus - we went into some spicy convo about website carousels..... We got into: - What rituals define 'tactical' vs. 'strategic CRO - What is better to start with: qualitative or quantitative research? - Tips on breaking out of the 'tactical' hamster wheel to get you into strategic experimentation Timestamps: 00:00 Episode Start 07:10 Shiva Triggers Talia (Bad Definitions of CRO Box CRO into Tactics) 11:40 What ARE Tactics vs. Strategy? 18:43 Qualitative Data Should Be First - NOT Quantitative 26:41 Ways to Identify If Your Program is Tactical vs. Strategic 35:04 Shit You Need to Know: Carousels... CAN you actually use them? Go follow Talia Wolf on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/taliagw/)! If you have listener questions, submit them at https://tinyurl.com/askfromatob for a chance to be featured too!

In this engaging conversation, Victoria Sakal, Head of Growth at Wonder and a UX research expert, sheds light on the intriguing overlap between UX and CRO. She reveals how UXers often misinterpret CRO roles and emphasizes the need for a collaborative mindset. Victoria advocates for integrating user motivations with conversion metrics, while also proposing a shared insights database to bridge the gap between teams. Discover her tips for overcoming biases and fostering a more data-driven, accessible approach to both UX and CRO.

Your tests keep on getting blocked. You're frustrated, shaking your fist at the screen, calling everyone a doo-doo head. We've all been there. It sucks. But on the heels of Gertrud Vahtra giving a talk at Experiment Nation on how to help getting alignment on testing by running workshops, I HAD to have her on the podcast to go deeper into this topic. We got into: - Are your test approval rates too high? Too low? What does that mean for your experimentation program? - How to appropriately redirect stakeholders to not disrupt current tests in-flight while also keeping them engaged in the process - Where being passive aggressive CAN be helpful (and Gertrud DEFINITELY approves of this, and Shiva isn't making it up) Timestamps: 00:00 Start of Episode 1:38 Shit You Need to Know: Gerda Vogt-Thomas 8:34 Is Lack of Business Alignment on CROs to Fix...? 14:00 How Do You Balance Many Stakeholders Without Having TOO Many "Cooks in the Kitchen" 20:51 Your CRO Program Management Lacks Meta-Data, Which Impacts Transparency and Trust in Your Program 27:53 Does Your "Idea to Experiment Run" Ratio Need Improvement...? 33:01 Establishing Clear "Drivers" Helps Reduce Blocking in Experimentation Approvals Go follow Gertrud Vahtra on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/gertrudvahtra/)! And check out her Experiment Nation talk too! (out soon) Also make sure you guys are following Gerda Vogt-Thomas on LinkedIn - link to her (super triggering) post here: https://tinyurl.com/FromAtoB-Gerda If you have listener questions, submit them at https://tinyurl.com/askfromatob for a chance to be featured too!

Leadership KEEPS ON fighting you on running basic tests. They don't care about data. Your ideas "suck" (to them at least). We've all been there. I wanted to discuss this with someone who has BOTH experience in experimentation, BUT also talking the talk with senior leadership. Of course I had to talk to Nima "The Machine" Yassini. We got into: - What it is that leadership REALLY wants. And why CROs aren't necessarily delivering on that promise (primarily in messaging, not in actual body of work) - Why consultants are somehow more trustworthy than in-house experts (even if they're saying the same shit...) - Should experimentation really just be re-classified as 'research'? Timestamps: 00:00 Start of Episode 2:15 Common Reasons Why Leadership Hate Experimentation 7:01 Leadership (For Some Reason...) Values Consultants Over In-House Opinions 10:20 Experimentation Needs Cross-Functional Help - We Can't Do It Alone 15:50 Creating a "Culture of Experimentation" Should Equally Focus on "Culture" - Not Just "Experimentation" 21:00 Leadership's Drive for Impact (Inadvertently) Leads to Snakeoil / Lack of Experimentation 28:16 Messaging Matters in How You Communicate What We Do 35:49 Shit You Need to Know: Michal Eisik Go follow Nima Yassini on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/nimayassini/)! And check out this article he referenced in the podcast: https://tinyurl.com/FromAtoB-NimaArticle Also make sure you guys are following Michal Eisik on LinkedIn - link to her post here: https://tinyurl.com/FromAtoB-Michal If you have listener questions, submit them at https://tinyurl.com/askfromatob for a chance to be featured too!

Are you burned out in your #CRO job? Many of us are. Or have been. Or continue to be. Or... will be in the future. André Morys (CEO and founder of konversionsKRAFT) and Shiva Manjunath discussed this topic in this episode. We got into: - Signs you may be burned out in your CRO career - André's thoughts on why CROs burn out more easily than in other jobs (and he's 100% right...) - Tactical ways to address the burnout you're having without fully quitting (though... quitting IS always an option) We also got into a pretty interesting debate around using AI users in research for this week's "Shit You Need to Know".... Timestamps: 00:00 Start of Episode 2:30 Signs You Might Be Burned Out In Your CRO Job (Or Career...) 8:51 André's Theory to Why CROs Burn Out More Than Others (...And He's Right) 15:14 CRO Is Objectively A Tough Industry to Be in 16:38 Other Major Reasons Why CROs Ultimately Get Burned Out 22:17 Your Burnout May Be More On "Dealing with Politics" Rather Than Actually CRO-Related 24:04 Tips on Dealing with Your Burnout 33:56 Shit You Need to Know: Kate Moran (Using "AI Research" - this one got a little spicy...) Go follow André Morys on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/andre-morys/)! And if any of y'all are feeling burnout, you are all free to DM either one of us so we can try to help y'all work through it. Also, consider signing up for Experiment Nation's (free) "CRO Therapy" talks, moderated by the OG certified home Tracy Laranjo. Also make sure you guys are following Kate Moran on LinkedIn - link to her post here: https://tinyurl.com/FromAtoB-Kate If you have listener questions, submit them at https://tinyurl.com/askfromatob for a chance to be featured too!

Kelly Wortham, an A/B testing expert, and Shiva Manjunath, a conversion rate optimization guru, dive into the world of experimentation. They tackle the fears surrounding your first A/B test and share real experiences from the CRO community. Learn what to prioritize and what to ignore when starting out, and explore simple tests that anyone can run. The discussion even heats up around the questionable use of ROI in evaluating test results, highlighting a more nuanced approach to A/B testing. Get ready to embrace the fun of experimenting!