How Not To Suck At Divorce

If you haven’t filed for divorce yet but you’re spiraling, crying, rage-texting, and panic Googling how to leave your spouse...this episode is your pre-divorce game plan. Andrea walks you through the “invisible work” that protects you before you file: creating a private email, organizing finances, understanding monthly expenses, regulating emotions, interviewing attorneys strategically, protecting kids from adult stress, and avoiding common mistakes that can cost you money (and peace).This is not about being sneaky—it’s about being smart.Key Topics CoveredWhat to do before you file for divorceHow to create a private email and start organizing information safelyThe pre-divorce financial lists you need (accounts, debts, passwords, credit score)Why tracking monthly expenses now saves you later (hello, financial affidavits)How to stay emotionally neutral and avoid the “high-high / low-low” spiralHow to interview attorneys and choose the right “business partner”What NOT to do before filing (spending changes, threats, escalating conflict)How to protect your kids (routines, boundaries, therapy support)Bonus: writing down your “why” and what you want on the other sidePractical Pre-Divorce Action Steps (Checklist)Do these before you file:Create a new private email address (separate from anything your spouse can access).Start a Google Doc/Sheet to track:All known accounts (banking, retirement, investments, credit cards, loans)Unknowns you need to identify (accounts you suspect exist, balances you don’t know)Passwords/access issuesPull your credit score and document it.List all monthly expenses (mortgage/rent, utilities, insurance, subscriptions, kids’ expenses, activities, childcare).Interview at least 3 attorneys before hiring—choose strategy, not vibes.Keep household routines stable (especially if you have kids).Don’t threaten, don’t escalate, and don’t make sudden spending changes.Get a hobby/outlet (something healthy + consistent).Consider lining up a therapist for your kids if you expect the process to hit them hard.Write down your why: what you want, what you’re not getting, and your vision for the future.Notable Quotes“This is not being sneaky—this is being smart.”“Divorce is a business. Marriage is a business. Being in love is not.”“Don’t be like me. I left a lot of f*cking money on the table.”“You’re not hiring a best friend. You’re hiring a business partner.”Who This Episode Is ForAnyone thinking about divorce but not ready to fileAnyone feeling overwhelmed, panicked, or emotionally activatedAnyone worried about money, kids, or choosing the right attorneyAnyone who wants a practical, step-by-step pre-divorce planDisclaimerThis podcast episode is for informational and educational purposes only and does not provide legal advice. Always consult an attorney in your jurisdiction for guidance on your specific situation.Our Divorce Crash Course was designed to hold your hand through the process and help you avoid major and expensive mistakes. Learn more here: https://www.hownottosuckatdivorce.com/divorce-crash-courseFind our playlists here: https://www.hownottosuckatdivorce.com/podcastRate our podcast 5 stars here: www.ratethispodcast.com/notsuckOur Family Wizard is another fantasitc resource for those who need help navigating the "fun" world of coparenting. Head to this landing page to see how we work closely with them to support our listeners! http://www.ourfamilywizard.com/notsuckFriends, slide into our dms, we love love love hearing from you. We are always here to listen and help in any way we can. You've got this and we've got you.Join our private community on Facebook right hereInstagram: @hownotosuckatdivorceFollow Andrea: @theandrearappaportFollow Morgan: @divorceattorneychicago

Support and survival tools for one of the hardest days of divorce.“When the house is quiet, the feelings are loud.” If you’re facing Christmas (or any holiday) without your kids, this episode is your survival guide.Andrea Rappaport and Morgan Stogsdill talk about one of the most painful parts of divorce: the first (or early) holidays when your children are with the other parent. The anxiety can start days in advance, and the empty-house silence can feel unbearable — but Morgan reminds listeners that this is usually a moment in time, not a sign that you made the wrong decision about divorce.You’ll hear real, practical tools for getting through the day hour-by-hour (doggy paddling counts), what not to do when you’re spiraling, and why “effective support” matters. You’ll also get tips for keeping conversations with your kids positive, avoiding emotional landmines, and making a plan that helps you survive the holiday — without shame, stalking your ex, or numbing yourself into oblivion.In This Episode, We CoverWhy holidays without your kids after divorce can feel like a crisis momentHow to tell the difference between grief and a “divorce decision”Why “two truths can coexist” (you can be doing the right thing and it can hurt)The best coping strategies for surviving Christmas without your childrenWhat not to do: social media spirals, isolating, stalking your ex, emotional decisionsWhy moving your body helps your mind calm down (“an exhausted body is a calm mind”)How to use community support (even anonymously) when you feel aloneHow to talk to your kids without making them feel responsible for your emotionsCo-parenting communication tools (and why OurFamilyWizard helps when rules aren’t followed)Morgan’s “Chad” story: how making a plan helped a parent survive the first Christmas aloneWhy leaving the house is the #1 non-negotiable tool (even a drive-through counts)Key Takeaways1) This is normal — it doesn’t mean you’re weakAndrea says it best: no amount of self-care candles fixes the fact that your kids aren’t here. Missing your children doesn’t mean you’re failing. It means you’re hurting.2) Don’t make big decisions in a holiday spiralMorgan sees clients question everything during the holidays — but she rarely sees people truly halt divorce because of it. These feelings are real, but they’re usually temporary.3) Doggy paddling is still progressYou don’t have to “thrive” today. You just have to get through it. Hour-by-hour is allowed.Holiday Survival Plan (From the Episode)Here’s your breakdown, straight from Morgan + Andrea:✅ 1. Move your body (or at least get moving)Walk outside if you canIf it’s cold: use a short YouTube workout videoIf you hate workouts: get in your car and go somewhere (Target counts)✅ 2. Get support — and help someone elseJoin the private community (anonymous if needed)Post what you’re doing to lift your spiritsAsk for support or distractions if you’re strugglingCompliment a stranger — small moments matter✅ 3. Do something with your handsClean. Organize. Junk drawer. Closet. Anything that creates:distractionaccomplishmenta tiny sense of control in a messy season✅ 4. Have a plan for the day (chunk it- hee hee "chunk" is such a funny word)Morning / midday / evening. Decide:where you’ll gowhat you’ll eatwhat you’ll watchwhat you’ll do when the feelings hit✅ 5. Keep kid conversations brief + positiveDon’t guilt your kids or make them feel responsible for your sadness. Have a “safe” positive story ready before you call.✅ Bonus idea: go to a movieIt’s a built-in time block, gets you out of the house, and gives your brain a break.What NOT To Do (Important)Don’t numb yourself into oblivion (alcohol, doom scrolling, dissociating)Don’t isolate all dayDon’t stalk your ex or interrogate your kidsDon’t make big legal/emotional decisions todayDon’t shame yourself for feeling sad or relievedIf you’re spiraling: stay off social mediaHere are some podcasts we love:Morgan's picks:NPR News Now (omg boring)Big Deal Andrea's picks:Crime JunkieAndrea's favorite YouTube workout channel-https://www.youtube.com/@MadFitJoin our private community here: https://www.facebook.com/share/g/17bUX16Wvz/Our Divorce Crash Course was designed to hold your hand through the process and help you avoid major and expensive mistakes. Learn more here: https://www.hownottosuckatdivorce.com/divorce-crash-courseOur Family Wizard is another fantasitc resource for those who need help navigating the "fun" world of coparenting. Head to this landing page to see how we work closely with them to support our listeners! http://www.ourfamilywizard.com/notsuckFriends, slide into our dms, we love love love hearing from you. We are always here to listen and help in any way we can. You've got this and we've got you.Instagram: @hownotosuckatdivorceFollow Andrea: @theandrearappaportFollow Morgan: @divorceattorneychicago

Why the holidays amplify doubts. What to do instead of panicking.If you're overwhelmed, exhausted, pretending you’re fine, or Googling “How to pretend I'm not miserable in my marriage and ruin Christmas?” this conversation is exactly what you need.December hits differently when your marriage feels heavy. In this episode of How Not to Suck at Divorce, Morgan and Andrea break down why the holidays can push you into emotional overdrive and why that does not automatically mean you need to file for divorce today. From understanding the difference between a crisis moment vs. a clarity moment, to learning the now-iconic Pantry Party Plan, this episode gives you practical strategies to stay grounded, calm, and emotionally safe during one of the most triggering months of the year.You’re Not Weak — You’re OverwhelmedAndrea and Morgan open the episode with a message so many listeners need to hear:You’re going to be okay.Holiday stress isn’t proof that your marriage suddenly collapsed — it’s proof that December is a pressure cooker.Friends. Traditions. Money. Kids. Expectations. Fake joy.Your nervous system is maxed out, and that’s normal.A crisis moment feels like:wanting to flee your househiding in the pantrycrying out of nowherefantasizing about driving away and not coming backpanic bubbling in your chestThese moments do NOT require divorce decisions.A clarity moment feels like:“Yep… this marriage still doesn’t feel right.”annoyance, sadness, or distancenoticing repeating patternscalm recognition of misalignmentClarity = informationCrisis = not the time to actThis distinction alone saves listeners from major mistakes.December will give you a moment where you need to step away — mentally or physically.Andrea introduces the Pantry Party Plan, a simple, strategic grounding tool to stop panic from running the show.Step 1: Set a timer.3 minutes → small wobble5–7 minutes → medium crisis10 minutes → major meltdown preventionStep 2: Exhale first.Panic makes it nearly impossible to breathe in.So start by pushing out all your air, then allow the inhale.Step 3: Add your mantra.Pick something that makes you laugh, relax, or feel powerful.Andrea’s?“Bitches ain’t shit.”Find one that works for YOU.🧘‍♀️ Why December Makes Everything Feel WorseMorgan breaks down the legal + emotional side:Emotional triggers:holiday traditions when you're unhappyforced family timepretending everything is fineloneliness in a room full of peopleconstant “countdown” messagingfinancial pressureLegal triggers:you feel like decisions MUST be made nowyou assume you need to file before year-endemotions wipe out logicReality:Unless you are in a dangerous or urgent situation, you do NOT need to make major legal moves in December.🗓 Give Every Big Feeling 24 HoursDecember creates urgency — emails scream “LAST DAY!” and everyone feels squeezed.But Morgan and Andrea give the rule:WAIT 24 HOURS before acting on heavy emotions.Your clarity returns when your nervous system stabilizes.🛑 This is NOT the Time for Legal ListsUnlike many episodes, this is NOT when you:list marital issueswrite notes for your attorneyplan financial strategymake decisions about filingThis is the month of survival, not productivity.Your only job: protect your head and heart.🎁 Why Gift-Giving Can Actually Be HealingAndrea shares how crafting a thoughtful teacher gift became an unexpected source of joy when nothing else felt good.For some people, creating something for someone else can momentarily relieve the emotional load.For others?Like Morgan?It’s stress-inducing.Pick the lane that helps YOU.📺 What to Watch When Holiday Movies Make You CryAvoid the emotional Hallmark specials.Andrea recommends lighter options — like Nailed It — to give your brain a break from holiday perfection and family-togetherness fantasy scenes.👥 You’re Not Alone — Join the HNTSAD Private CommunityIf you're feeling isolated, the private community offers:anonymitysupport from people who get itguidance from Morgan and Andreaa place to ask real questionsPlus: more tools on the website, including the Divorce Crash Course and other guides.Our Divorce Crash Course was designed to hold your hand through the process and help you avoid major and expensive mistakes. Learn more here: https://www.hownottosuckatdivorce.com/divorce-crash-courseOur Family Wizard is another fantasitc resource for those who need help navigating the "fun" world of coparenting. Head to this landing page to see how we work closely with them to support our listeners! http://www.ourfamilywizard.com/notsuckFriends, slide into our dms, we love love love hearing from you. We are always here to listen and help in any way we can. You've got this and we've got you.Instagram: @hownotosuckatdivorceFollow Andrea: @theandrearappaportFollow Morgan: @divorceattorneychicago

How to prepare, protect yourself, and move forward without rushingThis episode is especially helpful if you’re searching for:How to prepare for divorce without filingEmotional separation before divorceHow to survive the holidays before divorceWhat is a silent divorce?How to tell your spouse you want a divorce (but not yet)Divorce timing strategyHow to protect kids during separationIf you’re quietly planning your next chapter, this one is for you.In this episode of How Not to Suck at Divorce, Morgan Stogsdill and Andrea Rappaport dive deep into the concept of the silent divorce: the unofficial, emotional separation that happens when one or both partners know the marriage is ending, but they're not ready to officially file yet.If you're feeling emotionally checked out, unsure of timing, scared of disrupting the holidays, or stuck in a “limbo marriage,” this episode helps you understand what a silent divorce is, the signs you're in one, and most importantly : what to DO about it.Andrea and Morgan break down two scenarios:1️⃣ When both spouses know divorce is coming but are waiting.2️⃣ When only one spouse knows, and the other has no idea.You’ll hear practical guidance, emotional support, and legal strategy to help you prepare without panicking, protect your kids, and avoid major divorce mistakes.Plus, you’ll hear hysterical QuickBooks chaos, psychic readings on Oak Street, and a glamorous side quest to the Waldorf Astoria. Classic HNTSAD energy.What You’ll Learn in This Episode:✔ What a “silent divorce” actually isHow emotional withdrawal and parallel living become the early stage of divorce long before filing papers.✔ Signs you’re in a silent divorce– Minimal communication– Loss of intimacy– Roommate vibes– Emotional loneliness– Avoidance of conflict– No partnership energy✔ If both partners know divorce is comingDo this:Keep things predictableSet temporary boundaries (separate bedrooms, shared spaces, routines)Treat this time as preparation, not limbo✔ If only you know divorce is comingDo this:Understand your secrecy is not deceit — it’s strategyConfide in only ONE trusted personStart preparing emotionally, financially, and legally✔ Why timing matters (especially during the holidays)Morgan explains why the holiday season is almost never the right moment for a divorce announcement — legally, strategically, and emotionally.Andrea shares how to survive the “holiday performance pressure” without pretending everything is perfect.✔ How to handle parenting when you're silently divorcingSimple scripts, routines, and communication tips to help keep kids grounded and minimize emotional fallout.✔ The #1 thing that reduces divorce fear: preparationFear = confusionConfidence = clarityThis episode shows you how to take the first steps safely, smartly, and privately.“A silent divorce is not a selfish move — it is a strategic move.”“You don’t have to file today to start preparing for tomorrow.”“Secrecy isn’t deceitful — it’s careful.”“A silent divorce is a temporary solution, not a long-term fix.”“Preparation reduces panic.”Our Divorce Crash Course was designed to hold your hand through the process and help you avoid major and expensive mistakes. Learn more here: https://www.hownottosuckatdivorce.com/divorce-crash-courseOur Family Wizard is another fantasitc resource for those who need help navigating the "fun" world of coparenting. Head to this landing page to see how we work closely with them to support our listeners! http://www.ourfamilywizard.com/notsuckFriends, slide into our dms, we love love love hearing from you. We are always here to listen and help in any way we can. You've got this and we've got you.Instagram: @hownotosuckatdivorceFollow Andrea: @theandrearappaportFollow Morgan: @divorceattorneychicago

Why strategy, not emotion, wins negotiations.Emotions don’t win in divorce court — facts and strategy do. In this episode of How Not to Suck at Divorce, divorce attorney Morgan Stogsdill and comedian-turned-divorce-advocate Andrea Rappaport walk you through how to negotiate your divorce like a pro using their THINK framework:T – Take the emotion out of itH – Have realistic non-negotiablesI – Identify their pain pointsN – Negotiate from facts, not feelingsK – Keep your BATNA in mind (your best backup plan)If the idea of mediation, settlement conferences, or sitting across from your ex makes you want to hide in a hole, this episode is your game plan. You’ll learn how to work with your lawyer instead of against them, what’s actually realistic to ask for, how to use what you know about your ex as legal leverage, and why clinging to your emotions can cost you big money, time, and sanity.Whether you’re just starting your divorce, heading into mediation, or trying to wrap up a long, exhausting case, this episode will help you stay out of court if possible, save money, and make smarter decisions for you and your kids.In This Episode, We Cover:Why “facts win” in divorceHow emotions spiral, stories get twisted, and why judges and mediators care about documents, numbers, and timelines — not drama.T = Take the emotion out of itAndrea’s “Ziploc bag and freeze your feelings like a 2018 pot roast” strategyHow to notice when you’re triggered in mediation (hello, Brenda and Chad)What to say to your lawyer when you’re about to lose it — and when to zip it and let them speak for youH = Have realistic non-negotiablesThe difference between must-haves and nice-to-havesWhy “I want 100% custody” usually isn’t realisticHow to decide which holidays, financial terms, or parenting provisions are truly non-negotiableMorgan’s example of a client who refused to accept any end date on maintenance — and why that was realistic in her caseI = Identify their pain pointsHow to “play detective” and figure out what your ex really cares about (ego, money, reputation, time with kids, a specific property, etc.)Morgan’s story of using a husband’s obsession with a particular property to get her client more money on the balance sheetWhy negotiation is less about what you want and more about what motivates themN = Negotiate from facts, not feelingsWhy you should write your facts in clear bullet points, not emotional paragraphsHow “friend of the family” promises and verbal side deals (hi, John 🙃) don’t count in courtThe power of real numbers and real documents: appraisals, bank statements, incomes, and written offersK = Keep your BATNA in mindWhat BATNA actually means in divorce: Best Alternative to a Negotiated AgreementHow to think about your “backup plan” if mediation doesn’t work — i.e., what a judge is likely to do with your factsWhy knowing your BATNA calms panic, helps you avoid low-ball offers, and keeps you from spending more on legal fees than you stand to gainWhen it’s actually smarter to stop fighting, accept a good-enough deal, and go homeWhat to really expect from mediationWhy the first day of mediation often feels “wasted” and why it’s actually valuable intelHow good lawyers use mediation to study your ex, learn their triggers, and refine strategyWhy mediation that “fails” still teaches your lawyer how to help you at the next stageHow to use your lawyer the right wayWhat to ask your attorney when you’re overwhelmed: “If this were your life, what would you do?”How to talk honestly about risk, cost, and realistic outcomesWhy you should stop trying to be the lawyer and let your lawyer do their actual jobEmotions are valid, but they don’t belong at the negotiation table.Work with your lawyer to define realistic non-negotiables based on the law, not just your fear or anger.Use what you know about your ex’s insecurities and priorities as strategic leverage.Facts, numbers, and written offers win in divorce — not stories, verbal promises, or assumptions.Always know your BATNA (what likely happens in court) so you’re not negotiating from panic.Mediation rarely feels “pretty,” but it’s almost always cheaper, faster, and less emotionally damaging than court.You are not supposed to already know how to do this — that’s why you have a lawyer and your divorce besties, Andrea & Morgan.We are truly engaged with Truly Engaging cards. It's THE BEST way to remain connected with your community. Use code: NOTSUCKTE to get 10% off your order and ask to have Alisiah help you!! www.trulyengaging.comOur Divorce Crash Course was designed to hold your hand through the process and help you avoid major and expensive mistakes. Learn more here: https://www.hownottosuckatdivorce.com/divorce-crash-courseOur Family Wizard is another fantasitc resource for those who need help navigating the "fun" world of coparenting. Head to this landing page to see how we work closely with them to support our listeners! http://www.ourfamilywizard.com/notsuck20Friends, slide into our dms, we love love love hearing from you. We are always here to listen and help in any way we can. You've got this and we've got you.Join the private communities!The How Not to Suck at Divorce CommunityThe How Not to Suck at Life AFTER DIVORCE CommunityInstagram: @hownotosuckatdivorceFollow Andrea: @theandrearappaportFollow Morgan: @divorceattorneychicago

Hard truths that can save you time, money, and sanity.If you want the real truth about divorce, buckle up. In this episode, Andrea and Morgan deliver the unfiltered, uncomfortable, absolutely-necessary truths your lawyer wishes you understood…but might be too afraid to say directly.From how the legal system really works to why your expectations are sabotaging your sanity, this episode is the wake-up call you need if you’re navigating divorce, co-parenting, or even just preparing for that dreaded Thanksgiving dinner with your very opinionated family.This one is honest, hilarious, a little unhinged (hi Andrea), and packed with strategic guidance that will help you avoid major mistakes.What You’ll Learn in This Episode1. Nothing in divorce is “fair” — and why that mindset will destroy youThe legal system doesn’t care about fairness. It’s designed for equitable distribution, not emotional justice.2. Stop expecting the legal system to deliver revengeMorgan breaks down why the courts aren’t built to punish your ex — even when you deeply (and correctly) feel they deserve it.3. Lower your expectations, raise your strategyWhy your expectations are often unrealistic, what “the range” actually means in divorce outcomes, and how lowering your expectations protects your mental health and your wallet.4. Know the law where you actually live (yes, geography matters)Andrea reminds listeners that different states = different standards. Don’t guess. Don’t Google. Ask your lawyer to explain what’s realistic where YOU live.5. Stop focusing on your ex — focus on YOUYour ex won’t suddenly transform into a better human mid-divorce. (Brenda does not become Glinda.) Focus on your responses, your regulation, and your strategy.6. Backseat drivers & Thanksgiving disastersHow to shut down intrusive family commentary (“That’s not fair!”) and exactly what to say at the holiday table when everyone wants details about your divorce.7. Your kids will hurt — but they will be OKAndrea shares her own emotional story about her first Thanksgiving without her kids, and how focusing on what she could control changed everything.8. Do NOT fire off emotional textsUse a communication app like OurFamilyWizard to protect yourself legally and emotionally — especially with the ToneMeter feature that stops you from sending something you’ll regret. Hard Truths from This EpisodeThe legal system is not designed to make you feel better.Your ex won’t change just because you’d like them to.Your attorney isn’t your therapist.Fairness is not a legal standard. Equitable is.Focusing on your ex keeps you stuck.You are responsible for asking your lawyer the right questions.Your expectations need to be realistic, not emotional.⏱️ Timestamps00:00 — Hard truth: nothing about divorce is “fair”00:05 — Why the legal system will NOT give you justice or revenge00:21 — Show intro01:12 — Morgan’s chaotic morning + the freight elevator monkey situation02:38 — Why a small client gift boosted the entire legal team03:26 — Andrea’s shocking weekend text to Morgan04:30 — Kim Kardashian’s “All’s Fair”: Andrea’s surprising review05:36 — HARD TRUTH #1: Lower your expectations08:43 — How to “bet on yourself” when everything feels unstable10:08 — The client who saved millions by lowering expectations10:58 — Best case vs worst case vs realistic outcomes12:11 — HARD TRUTH #2: Nothing about this will feel fair14:48 — What “equitable” actually means in divorce17:02 — The danger of getting stuck in unfairness mindset18:39 — How to handle family’s opinions during holiday gatherings20:47 — HARD TRUTH #3: The system is not built for revenge22:02 — HARD TRUTH #4: Stop focusing on your ex’s behavior22:40 — Letting go of trying to “teach lessons”24:39 — Why your ex won’t suddenly improve during divorce25:50 — HARD TRUTH #5: Focus on YOU, not Brenda27:17 — Why lawyers don’t tell you these things directly28:49 — What to say at Thanksgiving to shut down nosy relatives31:05 — Andrea’s raw story of her first kid-free Thanksgiving33:22 — The “body shot off Dad” moment (you know it’s coming)34:52 — Divorce is a marathon, not a sprint35:26 — Resources, guides & community linksThis episode is your permission to drop the guilt, stop white-knuckling the process, and start approaching your divorce with clarity, strategy, and self-compassion.If you’re going through a divorce right now — especially a high-conflict one — this is the episode you can’t skip.Rate, review, and share to help someone who needs it.Our Divorce Crash Course was designed to hold your hand through the process and help you avoid major and expensive mistakes. Learn more here: https://www.hownottosuckatdivorce.com/divorce-crash-courseOur Family Wizard is another fantasitc resource for those who need help navigating the "fun" world of coparenting. Head to this landing page to see how we work closely with them to support our listeners! http://www.ourfamilywizard.com/notsuck20Friends, slide into our dms, we love love love hearing from you. We are always here to listen and help in any way we can. You've got this and we've got you.Instagram: @hownotosuckatdivorceFollow Andrea: @theandrearappaportFollow Morgan: @divorceattorneychicago

Making better decisions by understanding what really matters.If you’re in the middle of a divorce and constantly asking yourself “WHY is this happening?”, this episode is about to save you money, misery, and a whole lot of emotional tailspinning.This week, Andrea and Morgan dive deep into the question that can either move your divorce forward—or completely derail you: WHY.When is asking why strategic?And when is it a waste of attorney fees (or your sanity)?To help break it all down, we’re joined by Cary J. Mogerman, one of the most respected divorce attorneys in Missouri. Cary brings decades of experience, a wise-professor vibe, and a no-nonsense approach to helping clients understand the process clearly, calmly, and strategically.Cary J. Mogerman is one of the most highly regarded divorce lawyers in Missouri and wellknown to other top family law attorneys throughout the United States. He is a Fellow of the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers and in 2022, served as President of the national organization. He is a Diplomate of the American College of Family Trial Lawyers, an invitation-only assemblage limited to 100 members throughout the United States; Cary is a member of its executive committee. He is a Fellow of the International Academy of Family Lawyers.https://carmodymacdonald.com/people/cary-j-mogerman/In this conversation, you’ll learn:Why “Why is this happening to me?” is a therapist question—not a lawyer questionHow to ask WHY in a way that strengthens your strategy, saves money, and reveals leverageWhy understanding your spouse’s emotional triggers can completely shift mediationThe one communication mistake clients make that drives lawyers insaneWhen your lawyer should break things down in plain languageWhy slowing down your responses (yes, YOU) will prevent disasterHow to stop burning money on the wrong kind of questionsWhy the legal process feels slow, confusing, and unfair—and what to do with thatHow to advocate for yourself without apologizingPLUS: Andrea reveals a HUGE co-parenting milestone (Shabbat dinner with the ex… yes, seriously), and Morgan talks through why listeners were so triggered by last week’s episode—and what that means for your own healing.This is the episode you NEED if you’re negotiating, mediating, litigating, co-parenting, or just trying to get through the day without rage-texting your ex or panic-emailing your lawyer.Key Takeaways1. Not All “Why” Questions Are Helpful“Why is this happening?”“Why is he acting like this?”“Why is she being crazy?”These are human questions—but not legal ones.They belong in therapy, not in your billable hours.2. Strategic Why’s Are POWERFULWhy are we filing this motion?Why is this our mediation plan?Why is my ex reacting this strongly to ONE issue?These help your attorney build a smarter, more effective case.3. Your Lawyer Should Explain Everything in Plain LanguageCary breaks down why attorneys NEED to simplify their communication—and why you should never feel embarrassed asking:“Can you explain that in normal-person English?”4. Your Spouse’s Triggers = Your StrategyYou know your spouse better than anyone.Your insights help your attorney negotiate smarter and faster.5. Don’t Make Split-Second Decisions During Emotional SurgesYou’re not being chased by a bear.Slow down. Breathe. Don’t respond immediately.You can literally save thousands of dollars by pausing.6. Your Lawyer Isn’t Your TherapistIf you use your attorney to process grief, fear, or trauma—you’ll pay for it.A therapist handles feelings.A lawyer handles logistics and strategy.7. Mediation Success Depends on the WhyUnderstanding WHY your ex digs their heels in reveals:leveragepressure pointsopportunities for compromise8. Don’t Waste Your Money Asking Why the Law Is UnfairIt is unfair.But your lawyer can’t change it.Save your dollars for actual strategy.Timestamps00:00 — Cary opens up about the problem with legal language00:09 — Morgan: never feel bad asking “why”00:19 — How WHY can transform mediation00:46 — Show intro01:22 — Connecting instead of isolating during divorce01:37 — Truly Engaging partnership02:19 — Holiday-card humor + promo code02:26 — Being proactive vs reactive in divorce02:44 — Why communication apps matter (Our Family Wizard plug)03:19 — Andrea drops a HUGE co-parenting surprise05:02 — The Shabbat dinner miracle (yes, really)06:33 — Listener backlash from last week07:40 — Nervous system regulation in co-parenting08:53 — Introducing guest attorney Cary Mogerman10:16 — Why blindsided spouses struggle with “why”12:04 — When WHY keeps clients stuck13:26 — The role of therapy vs legal strategy14:44 — The cost of asking the wrong WHY15:30 — When WHY is your best tool17:02 — How WHY reveals leverage in mediation17:54 — Plain language: the communication clients deserve19:48 — Don't feel bad asking your lawyer to explain21:22 — Email vs call: when & how to communicate22:18 — How to prep for a paid call with your attorney23:41 — Using WHY strategically in litigation & mediation24:33 — When your WHY belongs in therapy25:16 — Why divorcing people need communication guides26:26 — Knowing your spouse’s triggers = negotiation power27:25 — Why lawyers need your full story28:41 — Real-life example: using money triggers in negotiation31:34 — Why you don’t need to make immediate decisions32:21 — Emotional reactivity and fight-or-flight33:52 — Why your brain panics during divorce35:14 — The WHY questions that waste money35:45 — Why fairness doesn’t matter in court37:36 — Action steps: when to ask WHY & when not to38:47 — Cary’s closing wisdom39:39 — How to know when to get curious vs when to let go40:59 — Resources to help you save money & stress41:28 — Why divorce is a marathon, not a sprint42:02 — Final reassurance: you’ve got this (and we’ve got you)Our Divorce Crash Course was designed to hold your hand through the process and help you avoid major and expensive mistakes. Learn more here: https://www.hownottosuckatdivorce.com/divorce-crash-courseWe are truly engaged with Truly Engaging cards. It's THE BEST way to remain connected with your community. Use code: NOTSUCKTE to get 10% off your order and ask to have Alisiah help you!! www.trulyengaging.comJoin the private communities!The How Not to Suck at Divorce CommunityThe How Not to Suck at Life AFTER DIVORCE CommunityOur Family Wizard is another fantasitc resource for those who need help navigating the "fun" world of coparenting. Head to this landing page to see how we work closely with them to support our listeners! http://www.ourfamilywizard.com/notsuck20Friends, slide into our dms, we love love love hearing from you. We are always here to listen and help in any way we can. You've got this and we've got you.Instagram: @hownotosuckatdivorceFollow Andrea: @theandrearappaportFollow Morgan: @divorceattorneychicago

How one shift can reduce conflict and protect your kids.If the idea of “healthy co-parenting” makes you want to throw your phone, this episode is for you. Comedian Andrea Rappaport and powerhouse family law attorney Morgan Stogsdill sit down with co-parenting expert and bestselling author Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE, whose real-life story of turning a hostile divorce into a functional, daily-communication co-parenting dynamic will shock you—in the best way.Jon's new book, The Co-Parenting Secret: It's Not About You, doesn't sugarcoat the difficulty or pretend everyone can be friends. Instead, it offers a revolutionary reframe: stop thinking about "my time" or "their time" and start thinking about your child's life. It challenges the toxic win/lose mindset and offers a new model: collaborative parenting focused on emotional safety, communication, and showing up for your kid every time.His message resonates with divorced, separated, dating-but-split, or any parents navigating two-home situations, because it's not about having a friendly ex or following a perfect plan. It's about making intentional choices that prioritize your kids above your own convenience, preferences, or pride.Jon is also a TEDx speaker, CEO of Lateral Solutions, and brings 20+ years of executive leadership to his work but this book isn't about applying business frameworks to family life. It's about the messy, honest journey of getting co-parenting right after getting it wrong.Jon didn’t start with unicorns and rainbows. There was resentment, trash-talking, incompatible living… the whole messy thing. But he learned the intentional steps that transform co-parenting from a battleground into actual teamwork. In this episode, we dig into what co-parenting looks like when it’s real, what to do when your ex refuses to cooperate, and why saying “Of course” instead of “Fine” could change literally everything.Whether you’re co-parenting with a narcissist, parallel-parenting with someone who refuses to meet you halfway, or just trying to not lose your mind over a simple schedule swap, you’ll walk away with mindset shifts, scripts, action steps, and legal strategy you can use TODAY.Key Takeaways1. Co-Parenting Doesn’t Start Perfect — It EvolvesJon and his ex did not get along at first. There was hostility, miscommunication, and resentment — just like what most people experience. Progress happens in baby steps, not giant leaps.2. Saying “Of Course” Isn’t About Your Ex — It’s About YouYour instinct is to say “no.” That’s human. But dropping your guard and choosing calm over chaos immediately changes your internal state. Less spiraling, less anger, less anxiety.3. Strategic Co-Parenting Helps You in CourtMorgan breaks down how tools like Our Family Wizard create evidence showing you are the reasonable parent. If a judge ever needs to get involved, this matters A LOT.4. Letting Go Isn’t Weak — It’s SurvivalJon explains how resentment destroys your peace more than it punishes your ex. Letting go isn’t excusing behavior — it’s freeing yourself.5. Your Why Keeps You GroundedCo-parenting gets easier when you know why you’re doing it: stability for your child, emotional peace for yourself, and a healthier long-term dynamic.Timestamps00:00 — Why “our natural reaction is to say no”00:17 — Morgan explains the legal strategy behind saying “yes”00:31 — What saying “of course” does for you00:57 — Andrea on isolation during divorce01:12 — Why connecting with community matters01:27 — Truly Engaging partnership + holiday card conversation02:15 — Morgan’s hilarious mic apology03:06 — “Morgan Scorsese” (thanks, Steve)03:40 — Why co-parenting can feel impossible04:14 — Introducing guest Jon Bassford04:53 — Jon’s unconventional upbringing + what didn’t work05:39 — The truth: it wasn’t always peaceful07:10 — How his childhood shaped his co-parenting philosophy08:30 — Why the “bad dad schedule” is dying10:22 — What co-parenting actually looks like in real life11:05 — The messy middle: trash-talking, resentment, counseling14:04 — How Jon began putting his son first15:54 — Why outside opinions can derail progress17:14 — What to do if your ex won’t cooperate17:55 — The power of one “yes”20:01 — Co-parenting with a narcissist, abuser, or difficult ex20:55 — Using Our Family Wizard strategically22:20 — What saying “of course” does to your nervous system23:46 — Andrea on emotional regulation + your brain under threat24:35 — Why counting overnights ruins everything27:56 — Jon’s 3 action steps30:01 — What “letting go” actually means31:06 — The ghosts of past, present & future32:38 — Jon’s book: The Co-Parenting Secret34:55 — Baby steps: the real way co-parenting improves35:40 — What everyone’s kids are eating (Lunchables, cheeseburgers, Walmart nuggets, god help us)38:02 — The 6-7 meme takes over Halloween38:48 — Closing thoughts + encouragement40:52 — How to join the community + resources41:09 — Final reminder: “You’ve got this… and we’ve got you.”Episode Resources & Links✨ Jon Bassford’s Book — The Co-Parenting Secret: It’s Not About Youhttps://a.co/d/69WVUaHWe are truly engaged with Truly Engaging cards. It's THE BEST way to remain connected with your community. Use code: NOTSUCKTE to get 10% off your order and ask to have Alisiah help you!! www.trulyengaging.com✨ Andrea’s Famous Walmart Chicken NuggetsGet them here!Join the private communities!The How Not to Suck at Divorce CommunityThe How Not to Suck at Life AFTER DIVORCE CommunityOur Divorce Crash Course was designed to hold your hand through the process and help you avoid major and expensive mistakes. Learn more here: https://www.hownottosuckatdivorce.com/divorce-crash-courseOur Family Wizard is another fantasitc resource for those who need help navigating the "fun" world of coparenting. Head to this landing page to see how we work closely with them to support our listeners! http://www.ourfamilywizard.com/notsuckFriends, slide into our dms, we love love love hearing from you. We are always here to listen and help in any way we can. You've got this and we've got you.Instagram: @hownotosuckatdivorceFollow Andrea: @theandrearappaportFollow Morgan: @divorceattorneychicago

A simple framework for smarter decisions when emotions run highThis week, Morgan and Andrea flip the script and want you to SUCK at divorce. Yep, you read that right. Learn how to Set aside your feelings, Utilize experts, Calm your nervous system, and Know the facts: a game-changing framework that’ll help you make better decisions (and fewer expensive mistakes) during your divorce.From cortisol spikes to co-parenting apps, nervous-system hacks, and even Amazon finds that actually don’t suck, the girls cover it all ...with the perfect blend of legal insight, emotional honesty, and wine-soaked humor you’ve come to expect.🧠 What You’ll LearnWhy your emotions are the worst business partners during divorce — and how to manage themHow to think like a CEO (even when you feel like a hot mess)When and how to actually use your divorce expertsSimple science-based tricks to calm your body in moments of panicHow to separate facts from feelings to protect your sanity (and your wallet)🛠️ The SUCK FrameworkS – Set aside your feelingsU – Utilize expertsC – Calm your nervous systemK – Know the facts (and stick to them)🥂 Quote of the Week“Divorce is a marathon — or as Andrea would spell it, a Martha-thon"Timestamps:05:01 – The Hulu Show That Made Us CringeAndrea reviews All’s Fair — the all-female divorce firm drama starring Kim Kardashian — and the verdict? “It sucks.” (Which turns out to be the perfect segue…)07:46 – Introducing the SUCK AcronymMorgan and Andrea unveil a new framework that will actually help you survive your divorce with your dignity intact:S – Set aside your feelingsU – Utilize expertsC – Calm your nervous systemK – Know the facts (and stick to them)09:02 – Step 1: Set Aside Your FeelingsMorgan explains the science behind emotional flooding (hello, cortisol!) and how to think like a businessperson instead of a brokenhearted one.10:34 – Andrea’s Advice for the Highly EmotionalIf you can’t be calm — pretend to be someone who can. Channel your inner TV badass (minus the tire-slashing).11:35 – Step 2: Utilize ExpertsMorgan reminds listeners: you hired your experts for a reason. Don’t go rogue.12:55 – Why Ignoring Your Attorney’s Advice BackfiresAndrea walks through what happens when clients do the opposite of what their lawyer says — and how to avoid a legal disaster.15:59 – Step 3: Calm Your Nervous SystemAndrea and Morgan dig into the physical side of stress. What happens in your body when your ex drops a bombshell — and how to get your calm back.17:54 – Morgan’s “20-Minute Rule” for FreakoutsShe shares a practical strategy: take 20–30 minutes before responding to any major divorce news. No driving, no emailing, no rage-texting.19:44 – Andrea’s Panic-Proof ToolkitThe “panic attack queen of Chicago” shares her science-backed tricks: movement, cold exposure, vagus-nerve activation, and a hilarious deck of cards that actually help.22:29 – Step 4: Know the Facts and Stick to ThemMorgan explains why emotional storytelling wastes time and money — and how bullet-pointed facts will save your case.23:50 – Feelings Aren’t FactsAndrea breaks down why your opinions about “Brenda being a nut job” won’t hold up in court.25:07 – How It All Comes TogetherAndrea explains how each SUCK step builds on the next — from calming your system to using your experts effectively.26:46 – Recap: Why You Need to SUCKMorgan summarizes the SUCK method and introduces their thriving online communities.27:53 – The Community ShoutoutsThey celebrate the rapid growth of their private and post-divorce Facebook groups (and tease upcoming expert videos).29:17 – Andrea’s Favorite Amazon FindsIce rollers, mood-light sconces, and gifts that make your friends’ day — because retail therapy totally counts as healing.30:44 – Morgan’s $40 Spanx DupeThe jumpsuit that broke the internet (and didn’t break the bank).33:57 – Red Light SpecialAndrea’s bedroom lighting hack turns hilariously NSFW — and somehow ties back to the theme of “sucking.”Resources:Our Divorce Crash Course was designed to hold your hand through the process and help you avoid major and expensive mistakes. Learn more here: https://www.hownottosuckatdivorce.com/divorce-crash-courseWe are truly engaged with Truly Engaging cards. It's THE BEST way to remain connected with your community. Use code: NOTSUCKTE to get 10% off your order and ask to have Alisiah help you!! www.trulyengaging.comOur Family Wizard is another fantasitc resource for those who need help navigating the "fun" world of coparenting. Head to this landing page to see how we work closely with them to support our listeners! http://www.ourfamilywizard.com/notsuckPlease rate our show! It means so much!! www.ratethispodcast.com/notsuckAmazon Links:Andrea's Vegus Nerve Deck: https://a.co/d/7oH0YBrAndrea's Ice Roller: https://a.co/d/5euYlveMorgan's SKIMS Dupe Sweatsuit: https://a.co/d/6tJ8zeRAndrea's battery operated light fixtures: https://a.co/d/5Pqt2SqJoin the private communities!The How Not to Suck at Divorce CommunityThe How Not to Suck at Life AFTER DIVORCE CommunityFriends, slide into our dms, we love love love hearing from you. We are always here to listen and help in any way we can. You've got this and we've got you.Instagram: @hownotosuckatdivorceFollow Andrea: @theandrearappaportFollow Morgan: @divorceattorneychicago

Why the finish line is the most dangerous phaseYou’re almost done… which is exactly when smart people make expensive mistakes. In this punchy, practical episode, Andrea and Morgan tackle “divorce senioritis”, that end-of-process urge to rush, stop reading, or pick last-minute fights, and lay out the three biggest mistakes people make in the final stretch of divorce (plus how to avoid them without losing your mind or your money).✅ What You’ll Learn (Skimmable Takeaways)1.Don’t glaze over “small” document editsTiny word shifts like “may / shall / will” can flip legal meaning.Action: Print the latest draft, run a Word Compare, read line-by-line for one quiet hour, and send your written questions to your attorney.Ask explicitly: “Do these changes affect any earlier documents (e.g., parenting or financial agreements)?”2.Stop the 11th-hour nickel-and-dimingAdding minor demands late (or “saving money” by not calling your lawyer) can drag negotiations and raise fees.Action: Bullet the 5–8 items bugging you; ask your lawyer:“Which of these have a realistic chance of success and are worth pushing to get us across the finish line?”Big picture > petty wins.3.Prepare for the mixed emotions after finalizationRelief, sadness, anticlimax—it’s normal to feel the opposite of what you expected.Action: Don’t over-schedule a celebration that day. Give yourself space to process, rest, and recalibrate.🕒 Suggested Chapter Markers00:00 Senioritis is real: why the finish line is risky05:24 The urge to “just sign it” (and how that backfires)10:14 Compare feature, “may/shall/will,” and cross-document impacts16:40 Nickel-and-diming at the 11th hour (and how to reframe control)23:39 Read like a businessperson, not a broken heart25:39 The post-divorce emotional curve (why it’s anticlimactic)28:38 Don’t plan a blowout the day it finalizes—plan space33:12 Mini-game: Marry or Divorce? (PG-13 edition)Please rate our show! It means so much!! www.ratethispodcast.com/notsuckJoin the private communities!The How Not to Suck at Divorce CommunityThe How Not to Suck at Life AFTER DIVORCE CommunityWe are truly engaged with Truly Engaging cards. It's THE BEST way to remain connected with your community. Use code: NOTSUCKTE to get 10% off your order and ask to have Alisiah help you!! www.trulyengaging.comOur Divorce Crash Course was designed to hold your hand through the process and help you avoid major and expensive mistakes. Learn more here: https://www.hownottosuckatdivorce.com/divorce-crash-courseOur Family Wizard is another fantasitc resource for those who need help navigating the "fun" world of coparenting. Head to this landing page to see how we work closely with them to support our listeners and save 20% off your first year of the essentials package http://www.ourfamilywizard.com/notsuck20Friends, slide into our dms, we love love love hearing from you. We are always here to listen and help in any way we can. You've got this and we've got you.Instagram: @hownotosuckatdivorceFollow Andrea: @theandrearappaportFollow Morgan: @divorceattorneychicago