Neurodiverse Love with Mona Kay

If you are looking for more resources on neurodiverse relationships you can check out Mona's website: www.neurodiverselove.com _________________________________________________ During this episode with Dr. Laura Hull you will learn more about the development of the CAT-Q tool (Camouflaging Autistic Traits Questionnaire)  and the impact of camouflaging/masking. Other topics discussed are: How the CAT-Q was developed and why. What might make it difficult for girls or women to get an autism diagnosis? Developing methods for teachers and parents to recognize and understand camouflaging.  Camouflaging may be affect a person's mental health because of increased stress and anxiety, feeling like they may be losing their identity, lack of authenticity, or lying about who they are. The research shows there is a connection between mental health and camouflaging.  There is ongoing research on the correlation between these topics. Masking and camouflaging are used interchangeably and focus on changing and fitting in. Camouflaging-is compensating for differences or assimilating into other aspects of behavior. Masking is a subtype of camouflaging and is about hiding of Autistic characteristics. Discovering that you’re Autistic later in life and beginning to work out your identity and unmask to find out who your “real self” is. Determining if you want to unmask in all areas of life. How unmasking impacts your relationships. Seeing your child get negative feedback for being who they are may be a catalyst for unmasking . There are some differences between different genders and the way they camouflage. What if health care and mental health providers ALL screened for neurodivergence? This could help more people get the right support and accommodations! The CAT-Q can be accessed for free at:https://embrace-autism.com/cat-q/ The tool can help you better understand if and how you might be camouflaging. Laura is working on another project with neurodivergent individuals to determine what type of support young people who are masking might need. To learn more about masking you can buy the book Laura co-authored: Autism and Masking: How and Why People Do It and the Impact it Can Have by Dr. Felicity Sedgewick, Dr. Laura Hull and Helen Ellis. You can also contact Laura at: Laura.hull@bristol.ac.uk

To get more information about the resources Mona has available for neurodiverse couples or individuals in mixed neurotype relationships check out her website at: www.neurodiverselove.com _________________________________________________ During this episode with author Sarah Hendrickx, she will share how she met her partner 20 years ago and why she didn’t understand why their relationship was so wonderful and difficult at the same time. She also talks about how she began to discover her own neurotype and how she and her partner Keith compliment each other's strengths and understand and accomodate each other's differences. Sarah has been doing “non-clinical autism diagnostic assessments”, workshops and conference presentations for many years and the 2nd edition of her fantastic book "Women and Girls on the Autism Spectrum" was released this year and is a “must read”. Other topics discussed include:  The Lost Generation. PCOS and Autistic women. Anxiety and agoraphobia. AuDHD and women. Bridging the silos. Menopause and ND women (autistic menopause.com is doing research on this topic) What attracts neurodivergent partners?  Not being focused on social conventions. How neurodiverse couples are attracted to certain qualities in the beginning of the relationship that may drive them nuts as the relationship moves forward. The differences in her relationship with Keith and how they help each other step up and take care of each other. (Socializing, sensory and emotional/mental health differences). How alexithymia may be impacting your relationship. The importance of self-awareness. Acknowledging that you are no longer in the same relationship that you were in before you knew you were a neurodiverse couple. The importance of shared core values. Always be kind!  Want the best for each other. Understanding what is changeable and what is not. The best you each can do is going to change…sometimes daily. Other books and authors mentioned on the podcast: Other books by Sarah: The Adolescent and Adult Neuro-diversity Handbook; Love, Sex & Long Term Relationships; Aspergers Syndrome and Employment; Asperger's Syndrome-a love story. An Asperger Marriage by Gisela and Christopher Slater Asperger Syndrome and Alcohol: Drinking to Cope by Matthew Tinsley and Sarah Hendrickx Books by: Liane Holliday Willey (Pretending to Be Normal and Asperger Syndrome in the Family), Temple Grandin (The Autistic Brain and Navigating Autism) and Donna Williams (Autism: An Inside-Out Approach and Nobody Nowhere) You can learn more about Sarah or contact her daughter Jess at: https://www.asperger-training.com/sarah-hendrickx In addition, for more information about the assessments available you can go to: https://axia-asd.co.uk/

If you would like to learn more about the resources Mona Kay has available, please check out her website at: www.neurodiverselove.com ________________________________________________ During this episode with Caron Starobin, LCSW, you will learn more about how Relational Life Therapy (RLT) can help neurodiverse couples understand how their challenges and lived experiences can be used to help them learn, grow and heal. In addition, you will hear about the fantastic workshop that Caron helped organize for the Relational Life Therapy Foundation called “No Ordinary Life”.  You can purchase access to the workshop at the link below: Neurodiversity No Ordinary Love - Relational Life Foundation The RLT Relationship Grid is a visual representation of self esteem and boundaries and includes information about where each person ends up on the grid when they are having their worst day. Click on the link below for a picture of the grid. During this episode, Caron explains the grid and this visual will be helpful as you listen to the episode. https://www.facebook.com/TerryRealRLI/photos/the-relationship-grid-relational-life-institute-coming-to-centerlike-many-people/1335146869845845/ Other topics discussed include: Shame is thinking that you are worthless. Desperation is being willing to do anything to make someone believe you, or hear you. Grandiosity is when you think others are not as smart and worthy as you are. Resignation and withdrawal focus on feeling like you are the one who is not tuning into your partner and that you may be broken. Controlling may include asking your partner ”What is wrong with you? I’m always taking care of everything”. Work on boundaries becoming less rigid or porous. Both partners need to look at how they can communicate and function in a more healthy way. Determine how you can each change your patterns and become more resilient. In RLT the client is "the patterns" that get each couple stuck. There are 8 lenses that are used to assess each client/couple: 1) Presenting problem  2) Preconditions 3) The blatant latent 4) The losing strategies (there are 5 of these) 5) The stance, stance, stance 6) The Relationship Grid 7) Family of origin 8) Socio-cultural  Understanding that the grieving process may be different for each partner and it’s important to acknowledge their markers of resilience. It is important to accept limitations in each other and grieve what each partner had expected and accept the reality of "what is" moving forward. Let go without resentment. If the resentment continues then you haven’t done the grief work. Focus on doing "relational mindfulness" and be more yielding and generous. Relational reckoning. For more information on Relational Life Therapy, Caron recommends the books “The New Rules of Marriage” and “Us” by Terry Real. If you would like to learn more about Caron's therapy practice and the groups she offers, please check out her website at: www.starobincounseling.com

During this episode with Dr. Nan Wise, who is a neuroscientist, sex therapist, and relationship counselor you will learn how to better understand yourself and your partner and how you can each regulate your nervous systems. In addition, other topics that are addressed include:  Learning how to radically accept where you are as an individual and a couple. Understand the core emotional systems:  seeking system; care system; play system; lust system. Defensive systems: fear system; rage system; panic/grief/sadness. Understanding core differences between you and your partner and different ways of handling emotions. Build bridges between the differences. Most people argue over “matters of opinion”. Get the understandable part of your differences and maintain a nonjudgmental attitude. The negative impact of not learning how to take an effective stance for what you “need and want” in your relationship. Learn how to ask for what you want and need “like a calm broken record”. We need to learn how to regulate ourselves and shift out of flight, fight, or freeze mode. Elongating exhalation-make the exhale longer then the inhale and this will help rebalance our core emotions out of a defense system. Calming our nervous system to co-regulate with our partner. Learn how to tune into the body channel. Everyone feels their embodied emotions. Learn how to pay attention to the core sensations in your body. Understanding cognitively infused emotions. The importance of changing patterns to feel safe in our relationships because we’re not understanding each other. Learn how to move from disconnection to connection by syncing your breath to entrain. Eye contact, listening to a partners voice or speaking in a calm way can help with co-regulation and promote connection. The benefit of heart coherence and giving your partner the benefit of the doubt and not assuming. Learning how to do deep/active listening and “take a session”.  The listener says “What I hear you saying is_____.  Is that correct? Is there more?” We “project” onto each other and may not understand that we are doing that. There are different kinds of marriages and the most challenging times can be when we have children and when the children leave home. How can you create a “sustainable” relationship? Relationships break down because they’re pointing out to us how we need to grow as human beings. Give yourself and your partner the benefit of the doubt, learn how to reset your nervous system, and take 100% responsibility for what “you” are creating in your relationship. You can contact Dr. Nan Wise at www.askdoctornan.com You may also want to buy her awesome book titled: "Why Good Sex Matters-Understanding the Neuroscience of Pleasure for a Smarter, Happier and a More Purpose Filled Life". (Book/workbook by Brent Atkinson that Dr. Nan Wise mentioned in the podcast is "Emotional Intelligence in Couples Therapy: Advances from Neurobiology and the Science of Intimate Relationships ".)

During this episode, Judy Singer shares about her family story, her marriage, and her thesis that was the "groundbreaking sociology thesis that prefigured the last great liberation movement to emerge from the 20th century". In her book: "Neurodiversity-The Birth of an Idea" Judy states, “The internet is the prosthetic device that binds isolated socially unskilled autistics into a collective social organism capable of having a public voice.” Some of the other topics dicussed are: Judy's work in disability studies. Her research at the local library to better understand her mother. Her relationship and experiences with her neurodivergent mother and her neurodivergent ex-husband. Judy facilitated one of the first support groups for adult children of autistic parents. She called them "daughters of engineers". Challenges at job interviews before understanding her neurodivergence. Not being able to maintain eye contact at work. Different parts that come out in different circumstances. Worked in computer programming and hated it! She systematizes information about people and that is why she is a sociologist. After 8 years on the waiting list for public housing she got a subsidized apartment and then was able to return to college. Consider what neurodiversity means to each individual and understand each other’s traits and accommodate each other. You can contact Judy at: Neurodiversity2.blogspot.com To learn more about Judy's groundbreaking thesis you can buy her book: NeuroDiversity-The Birth of An Idea.

To learn more about some of the resources Mona has available you can check out her website at: www.neurodiverselove.com ___________________________________________________________________ During this episode with Sue Hutton and Jan Wozniak you will learn about the work they are doing in their mindfulness program for Autistic adults. In addition, Sue will share a mindfulness exercise that is used in the program they offer. Other topics discussed include the following: Mindfulness helps you understand yourself from the inside out. Applying ancient teachings to current issues. Adapting Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) for Autistic Adults. Mindfulness practices can help if you are feeling overwhelmed in social or sensory situations, or lost in daily life. Mindfulness can also help you increase self compassion. Current therapies may not address the challenges with overstimulation. Co-regulation and reciprocity of energy. In neurodiverse relationships there is a diversity of nervous systems, but partners may not understand the differences. Rigid, ableist protocol may be very difficult for ND individuals. "Mindfulness based stress reduction" curriculum has been modified to be compatible for ND folks and to be congruent with ND nervous systems. Curriculum includes compassion and movement practices. How to be able to cultivate self awareness when you’re alexithymic. Mindfulness can help you connect with the things that might be difficult to access and accept that some things may be a challenge. Learn how to show yourself some kindness and self compassion. Mindfulness can also help with reducing sensory overload. Learning how to calm down your sympathetic response to feel more confidence, safety and control. Jan shares some of the complexities of his mixed neurotype relationship. How moving in together impacted his relationship. Understanding their different social needs and the importance of self regulation. Important to have a partner that is open to effective and ongoing communication. Honoring your needs is very important in a mixed neurotype relationship, as it can help prevent overload or overwhelm. Relationship as practice (Ram Dass). Learn about yourself in your relationship through a journey of self discovery, humility, understanding your sensory and social needs, patience, acceptance, and love. Reflect before you react. Try new practices together. The facility that Sue and Jan work with is the Azrieli Adult Neurodevelopmental Centre, Centre for Addiction and Mental Health (CAMH)-Toronto, Canada You can contact Jan at: Jan.wozniak@camh.ca or   https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/therapists/jan-a-wozniak-toronto-on/1252465 You can contact Sue Hutton at: https://www.suehuttonmindfulness.com For more information on expressing your needs check out this short video from the Gottman Institute: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EfcVKBhIjIo

If you would like to learn more about the resources available through Neurodiverse Love, including the Neurodiverse Love Conversation Cards and Workbook, please go to: www.neurodiverselove.com _________________________________________________ During this episode, Mona has a great conversation with Donna Henderson, Sarah Wayland and Jamell White, the authors of "Is This Autism-A Guide for Clinicians and Everyone Else" and "Is This Autism-A Companion Guide for Diagnosing". The topics addressed include: The value of explicit, direct communication. Making assumptions that may not be true. Misinterpretation during communication. Understanding high and low context. Taking things personally or judging your partner. Being held accountable for something you didn’t say but may have been inferred. Be curious when you feel yourself getting triggered. Be aware of the amount of time you need to transition from work to conversation. Get engagement first and then start communicating. May have different fundamental needs around communication.  Needing voice inflection to understand meaning. Flat affect or tone of voice may be received incorrectly.  Needing to process things out loud- vs- alone. How can you each get your needs met without overpowering or neglecting the other? Understand if your partner needs more processing time during a conversation. Understand what leads to flooding or shutdown during conversations. Understand when you’re hyperverbal you may be flooding your partner. Asking your partner for what you need at the beginning of a conversation. Understanding that you and your partner may define words differently. Accepting that there are differences that may not be changeable. Not having time awareness can create challenges and your partner may need transition reminders. When frustrations are festering because you haven’t communicated explicitly what you need. One person should not have all the burden of change. What are the top 3 things that are challenges in your relationship? Learning how to regulate your nervous system before engaging in a conversation with your partner. There are different ways of connecting and we need to understand each other’s needs. Sharing activities may be a great way for you to connect with your partner or family member. What was your partner’s family’s communication style? Understanding that fear in communication can create challenges. People are usually doing the best they can with what they have. Just ask!!! See things through a curiosity lens. You can contact Jamell White at:  drjamellwhite@gmail.com You can contact Donna Henderson at: www.drdonnahenderson.com You can contact Sarah Wayland at: www.guidingexceptionalparents.com

If you would like to learn about the support groups and other resources Mona has available you can check out her website at: www.neurodiverselove.com _________________________________________________ During this episode with AuDHD'er Scott Simpson, we talk about the impact of unknown neurodivergence and how important understanding yourself and your needs can be to help lead you to a path that includes forgiveness and healing. Other topics addressed include: Past relationships had a similar pattern. Would freeze when emotions came up. Trying to do things right long enough so that things would be okay. Feeling resentment from your partner, but not knowing what to do with it. Not knowing what your partner needs. Being confused and not planning ahead. Working on masking full time, but not knowing what that really meant. Things you say under pressure.  Sucking at hard conversations.  Routines while living together. Wife was a social worker. He had a fling. Seeking porn. Being willing to do whatever it takes, but not knowing what to do. Started therapy to address some issues that came up in his relationship. Didn’t want to marry someone who didn’t believe in him. Try focusing on the positives, rather than the challenges and differences. Expectations that there is only one way to do things and we want our partner to do it our way, Focus on the solvable problems. When you feel that you can’t talk about issues. The big proposal at Times Square in NYC. Time blindness. Waffling on decisions until pushed Wife had treatment resistant depression. Walking on eggshells. Feeling like you can’t meet your partner’s expectations. Thinking feelings, rather than feeling them and alexythymia. Didn’t know if he would be a good dad. During childbirth they found out his wife had cancer. In-laws moved in and it changed everything and he wasn’t prepared for the changes. Wife was planning to divorce him after the baby was born.  She felt he had no empathy and couldn’t be a supportive husband. Feeling like he was set up for failure. Wife screamed at him..."There is something wrong with you!”  …and she resented him. Everything he was doing was seen as an attack or a failure. The contempt has to stop. Wife had gone outside of their marriage to get some of her needs met. Deprived each other of so much love and joy. We can’t change the past. Felt like he lost half his brain when his wife died. Started learning about challenges with executive function and ADHD. ADHD didn’t answer all the questions and then learned about autism. Understanding neurodivergence helped burn off some of the trauma and shame. Son is gifted and might also be Autistic. “Unknown”neurodivergence throughout the family tree. Understanding each other’s neurotype within the family. Accepting your strengths, challenges, and differences and those of your friends and creating a supportive tribe. Thinking that there is only one way to be. Resented people who were their authentic selves. Always learning and growing. An experiential learner, who doesn’t learn from experience! Learning how to ask for what you need. Find the sandbox where you can talk about things safely…it lets so much happen. "Expecting" consistency may create challenges. Attribution of intention that is not correct. Learn how to forgive yourself…and start with your younger self.

During this episode, Dr. Katie Fields, LMHC, LMFT shares how the work she does through "CounSouling" weaves together her background in both mental health counseling and spiritual practices to help you better understand your ego and your soul, so that you become your most authentic Self.  Other topics addressed include: The therapeutic model called Internal Family Systems (IFS) uses the premise that we all are multi-dimensional personalities.   We have protective parts, parts that are managers and some that take on our burdens and vulnerabilities and then we have our most authentic “Self”. Traditional mental health therapy usually focuses on ego. Ego is our “persona suit” that helps us be in control of ourselves. Being ego focused may actually be when neurodivergent folks “mask or camouflage”. Ego can create masking behaviors to protect us. Being comfortable with our authentic voice can help us get more in touch with our Soul/Self. You may realize how hard you’ve been working to survive your day to day interactions. Grieving the old you as you transition to become more of your authentic self. Total wellness is possible! Letting go of what no longer serves you…including some relationships. Shifting your energy may involve setting boundaries and respectfully sharing your needs.  This can be healing for you and scary for others who may not be ready to, or want to, heal. You’re the only person who is going to be with you for the entirety of your life…make yourself a priority! The Enneagram is a 9 type personality tool that helps you see yourself.  First reflection will show you your ego, however it is a spiritual tool that helps you get back to your true Self. We want to feel safe and protected.  The ego is very adaptive and wants to protect us. There are ways to get in touch with what brings us joy! Taking radical responsibility for the life you want. Helping you get back on track. Numerology can be a tool that can help us understand more of our “user manual”.  Energetic patterns can help you learn lessons. In numerology you will get four different numbers from your name that can help you understand more about yourself.    Your integrated self is all the numbers in the layers in your name. When you are becoming integrated this is when your ego and soul are besties. Soul number is just the vowels in your name. Personality number is the consonants in your name and is your ego and how you show up. Your birth date is your “Life path”…the main lessons you are here to learn.  To learn more about Katie’s work or to get a free sample reading you can check out her website at: http://www.fearlesscounsouling.com

If you would like to learn more about Mona's support groups, workshops or the Neurodiverse Love Conversation Cards or Workboook you can check out her website at: www.neurodiverselove.com _________________________________________________ During this episode, Mona has a fantastic conversation with psychologist and author, Jasmine Loo, who is in Melbourne, Australia. Jasmine is the author of the book: "Nurturing Neurodivergence-The Late Identified Adults' Guide to Building Healthy Relationships With Self and Others". The topics discussed include: Vulnerability of neurodivergents in relationships. How difficulties in perspective taking can impact how we think others see the world and lead to relational trauma. How trusting can lead to trauma. Understanding healthy vs unhealthy relationships. Explicit learning may be useful. Needing a role model for healthy relationships. May have cognitive knowledge about many things, but may not be able to apply it. Having the memory, but having a gap applying the information in the future. Temporal myopia. Emotional distance from a painful memory can create a disconnect with emotional urgency and relevance. Toxic relationships may start out good. Gaslighting-makes you question your own sanity. Emotional and psychological abuse. Nuanced elements of relationships. Some cultures glorify certain behaviors that are not healthy. In the media, healthy relationship patterns may be seen as boring. Understanding your strengths and challenges and being able  to ask for help when you need it. It may be hard to believe in your strengths, if you’ve been told how bad you are throughout your life. Traits are not inherently good or bad, however it is important to view them in different contexts. Understanding what can change or can’t between different neurotypes. Sensory overload will impact your response or reaction. Being in self protection mode. Knowledge is power. Self understanding and self acceptance go hand in hand. Learn how to fight in healthy ways. Open communication during sensory or emotional overload may lead to meltdown or shutdown. You can’t clap with one hand, so both partners need to understand each other. Understanding when you or your partners nervous system is dysregulated. Do not be afraid to hit “pause” in a conversation with your partner. Alexithymia-struggling for your brain to register cues from your body. Looking like you are going from 0-100 very quickly and understanding your body’s cues. Having an individual and a relationship sensory toolbox can help you re-regulate yourself and co-regulate with your partner. Understanding when we humanize ourselves it doesn’t have to dehumanize someone else.  What you each need to feel safe in your relationships. “All emotions are okay although not all behaviors are.” Emotions don’t have to dictate behavior. Anger is not our enemy, it is trying to tell us something. The sticky brain and obsessionality-random thoughts or words that may get stuck in our heads. Can make it harder for ND people to move on. Learn to accept and understand the signs and doing “acceptance” work can help move out of “sticky brain” mode. Physical activity can ground you to the present. You can contact Jasmine through her psychology website: www.jasmineloopsychology.com or her author website: www.jasmine-loo.com