We are thrilled to have Emma Berry with us on the podcast today!  Emma shares her side of the story with us both this week and next and we are so grateful she was willing to walk us through the ups and downs of her process with her husband, Thomas.  (See links below for Thomas’s side of the story, from several seasons back.) Ladies - what I want you to be listening for is the fortitude Emma shows through the ebbs and flows.  Fortitude literally means strength under pressure and I believe it’s one of the key ingredients in being able to set boundaries well and also navigate recovery well.  Emma was firm with her boundaries and she was not going to settle. From behind the 8 ball to the 8 bouncing off the table - Emma’s story is one of fortitude, firmness and focus.  We will be back next week with part 2. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7. Click here for Thomas’s side of the story: God where are you? Part One and Part Two The Spring RLW Retreat is SOLD OUT for May.  Jump on the interest list here if you want to be the first to know about the next RLW Women’s Retreat. The WOHT workshop for men is SOLD OUT for April.  Jump on the interest list here if you want to be the first to know about the next WOHT workshop. Empowered Boundaries is SOLD OUT. Join the Wait List to be the first to know when the class opens again for registration. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! You can do that here.   For more information on RL Academy, click here. Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus. We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop! Click here to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. Click here to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast.

On this episode, we wanted to unpack what it looks like for men to do recovery out of the wounds (versus living recovery and not making everything about the wounds). Jason starts with explaining a bit more as to what he means by this: in the addiction (or integrity issue) - men are operating out of the wounds. In other words - the acting out mitigates the pain of the wounds. The same can happen in recovery - the recovery work mitigates (or is driven by) the wounds. I asked Jason to give an example from his own life (from early recovery). For instance - him wanting to be seen (to feel significant) for not acting out today.   Bottom line - it’s important for men to ask themselves: are you doing recovery in a way that recovery becomes the thing that mitigates the pain of the wounds VERSUS doing the right thing because it is the right thing.   Common symptoms:   a wife feels confused him being motivated by feedback a husband finds himself saying things like: why won’t you just see me doing this work? self righteous indignance shrouded in false humility (and isn’t that a mouthful!) ALL that said - what do we do about it? We have to decide we don’t want to live this way anymore (which means we have to acknowledge it as a problem and then also own it as our fault, not anyone else’s). Surrender the demand of the wound. When we surrender / let go - we shift from holding onto who we have been TO leaning against our identity in Jesus. Watch for yourself living out of the wound - we do this by practicing awareness and then asking ourselves (as an example): why am I so defined by if people see my progress or not? What Jason says to men when sharing with them that they can lean on their identity in Jesus (see Psalm 139): You are dearly loved and infinitely valuable. Simply by nature of the fact that the God of the universe imagined you before time. He knit you together in your mother’s womb. And counted every hair on your head. And then decided on a specific day in human history that he would breathe life into you. And by that, you can know that you are not a mistake.   We ARE going to drop an infographic into the podcast freebies folder in the next week or so to include what Jason says above about our identity in Jesus. I’ll make sure and post it on IG once it is ready and we can also send out an email if you are a subscriber to the podcast freebies alerting you that it’s ready.   We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7. The Spring RLW Retreat is SOLD OUT for May.  Jump on the interest list here if you want to be the first to know about the next RLW Women’s Retreat. The WOHT workshop for men is SOLD OUT for April.  Jump on the interest list here if you want to be the first to know about the next WOHT workshop. Empowered Boundaries is SOLD OUT. Join the Wait List to be the first to know when the class opens again for registration. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! You can do that here.   For more information on RL Academy, click here. Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus. We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop! Click here to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. Click here to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast.

On the heels of talking about some of the markers that may point toward him not living with integrity (while in recovery) - we wanted to talk about three things that show sure signs of progress: The easiest one to see with our eyes is:  humility.  This can look like fast acknowledgements and apologies for doing something wrong as well as fast acknowledgment of continued hurtful habits. Bonus:  moving from the things I AM guilty for to what I am LIKELY guilty for. Second - personal accountability to include:  radical ownership for lack of follow-through, fewer excuses, choice versus universe.  (What I heard in this was the internal versus the external locus of control - which I think is HUGE.). Jason then added movement from self-righteous indignation to honest self-reflection and curiosity. Third - pursuit of intimacy to include:  desire not dread when it comes to talking about things as well as moving toward connections versus transactions (as in - more integrated). Ultimately this all culminates in him leading which is what we as women need to see from him.  Not just that but him leading paves the way for us as wives to follow. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7. Applications are OPEN for the Spring 2025 Women’s Retreat but will be closing March 28th.  Would love for you to consider joining me and my team there. The WOHT workshop for men is SOLD OUT for April.  Jump on the interest list here if you want to be the first to know for the next WOHT workshop. Empowered Boundaries is SOLD OUT. Join the Wait List to be the first to know when the class opens again for registration. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! You can do that here.   For more information on RL Academy, click here. Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus. We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop! Click here to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. Click here to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast.

In this episode, we are talking about signs that he may be acting out.  I have a lot of women that wonder (post discovery) - how will I know if he is acting out?  What if I miss the signs?  This episode is for you - AND - we have one bit of caution:  we are NOT trying to insert unnecessary doubt into your mind.  What we share here are potential indicators.  A collection of things that we have seen as red flags prior to confirmation of his acting out.  In addition, you want to look at these as a whole.   Okay, here we go - signs he may be acting out:   1 - A man that is only motivated by her and not motivated by himself. 2 - Insisting he will never act out again. 3 - Hiding - not engaging in conversations, evading, avoiding. 4 - Acting In increasing. 5 - Pressuring her to have sex with him. 6 - No interest in her in totality (not just disinterest in sex). 7 - Him straddling the fence / lukewarm. 8 - Lack of wholistic integrity. 9 - Talking about going back to normal. 10 - Reconnecting to your intuition - if you sense something I off, something I off.  It may not mean he has relapsed but it does mean something is off.   We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7. See Episodes #25 and #26 - Understanding Acting In and Gaslighting and Healing from Acting In and Gaslighting for more on Acting In. Applications are OPEN for the Spring 2025 Women’s Retreat but will be closing soon.  Would love for you to consider joining me and my team there. The WOHT workshop for men is SOLD OUT for April.  Jump on the interest list here if you want to be the first to know for the next WOHT workshop. Empowered Boundaries is SOLD OUT. Join the Wait List to be the first to know when the class opens again for registration. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! You can do that here.   For more information on RL Academy, click here. Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus. We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop! Click here to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. Click here to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast.

We go back to a listener question, this one from IG where a woman asked:  how do I stay with dignity when the acting out was so extensive.  I’ll be honest - as I listen to this episode, I think there is SO much more we could have shared and we didn’t.  I’m making the choice to push it out but read these show notes for some of my additional thoughts that weren’t included in the audio.   Where my mind goes initially is to work at untangling any “judgments” (and I don’t say that word in a negative way, think: opinion) or preconceived notions you have about women (or men) that are betrayed.  Jason also mentioned that it’s important to create space between where you land and where others in your life land on leaving versus staying.  Oftentimes the opinions we have about things, especially before they are apart of our lives, can influence us more than we realize when we are walking a road we never thought would be ours to walk.   Second - for myself, I felt confident in giving Jason a second chance.  This also helped me stay with dignity.  I mentioned a book by Tim Keller, Forgive, where he really opened my eyes to how important it is to pursuing reconciliation if at all possible.  Obviously, it isn’t always possible and there are even some situations where it is okay to not pursue reconciliation.  I found what Tim said in his book reassuring of what God hopes for us within relationships which is quite different than the world view of relationships where we just move right on to the next.   Both of the things above (the opinions I was holding onto that I needed to release + choosing to give Jason a second chance) were things outside the relationship that I needed to sort through to stay with dignity and peace.   That said, I pivot to biblical times and robes and Joseph and honestly, I think I get a little lost so I understand if you do, too.  We are essentially grappling with - is dignity dependent on how others treat us?  Can it be stripped from us like it was for Joseph way back in Genesis based on others choices?  Or is dignity apart of who we are as God’s children (inherent dignity)?  Could it be both?   Where we landed is here:  it’s both/ and.  The stripping of dignity happens in relationship and thus building it back up also happens in relationship.  AND - there is inherent dignity that we can confidently stand in.  Both are important!   So a couple of questions for you as you consider if you can stay with dignity (dependent on the relationship):   - do you feel you are being honored in the relationship today? - what are you not okay with and is he still doing these things? - do you hold a high bar for how others treat you? - has there been restitution?  (And while I didn’t say this on the podcast - I think restitution is huge for women in restoring dignity.)   I hope this episode, at a minimum, gets your mind turning as you consider what it looks like to stay with dignity.   We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7.   Tim Keller’s book entitled Forgive is linked here. Registration for the next WOHT workshop for men coming April 4-6, 2025 outside Austin, TX. Click here for all the details and to register. Applications are OPEN for the Spring 2025 Women’s Retreat but will be closing soon.  Would love for you to consider joining me and my team there. Empowered Boundaries is SOLD OUT. Join the Wait List to be the first to know when the class opens again for registration. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! You can do that here.   For more information on RL Academy, click here. Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus. We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop! Click here to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. Click here to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast.

Hi y’all, you get the B team for the show notes on this episode! Jason here, trying to take up the slack, so these notes will be from my perspective not Shelley’s this time. Listener Question #1 : How do I help my wife be close to me again? With this question, we first have to remember that she may not be ready to be close again. If that’s the case, our efforts to draw her close will feel manipulative and selfish. Second, we have to challenge our motives and scrutinize if this is a) about sex, and b) about us. Once we’ve established that she does in fact want to figure out how to be close again, and that we aren’t focused on sexual and physical intimacy, and we’re not making it about us, here are a few things we have to ask ourselves as husbands: - “am I intentionally creating safety?” - “am I creating intimacy (especially outside of sexual)?” - “how can I communicate with my words what I want to communicate with my body?" Listener Question #2 - 28:15 - What tips do we have for men who can’t see the need for help? This is a painful question. My hunch is it’s from a wife, whose husband refuses help. If you’re in that boat, I’m sorry. We talk about how this is both a spiritual/faith issue, as well as an arrogance and pride issue. A short bible study here...We reference the following verse: Matthew 5:48 - "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” The word perfect in this verse is the greek word, teleios, which means "of mind and character, one who has reached the proper height of virtue”. It is often misquoted to mean sinless perfection, which for me (Jason) meant a feeling of perpetual failure. Blah. I love what Charles Spurgeon (an English pastor in the mid-late 1800s) says of this: "Rise out of ordinary manhood. Get beyond what others might expect of you. Have a high standard. Stretch towards the highest conceivable standard, and be not satisfied till you reach it." We have to be careful that we don’t become tangled up in the barbed wire of our own ego! Here are the key takeaways for both husband and wife: Takeaway for a husband: ask 3 people in your life if they see anything you could work on as a man, a leader, a christian, a husband, etc. and prepare your heart to receive it. Takeaway for her: is him getting help in this specific area an absolute non-negotiable for her? If so, you’ll need to confront the issue head-on. We reference Matthew 18:15-16 - If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ Nothing about this is pleasant or easy. Husbands, please see that if she is backed into this corner it only serves to add insult to the betrayal injury.  We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7. Registration for the next WOHT workshop for men coming April 4-6, 2025 outside Austin, TX. About half the spots are already taken! Don’t miss your spot. Click here for all the details and to register. Applications open today for the Spring 2025 Women’s Retreat.  Would love for you to consider joining me and my team there. Empowered Boundaries is SOLD OUT as of last week. Join the Wait Listto be the first to know when the class opens again for registration. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! You can do that here.   For more information on RL Academy, click here. Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus. We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop! Click here to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter +announcements. Click here to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast

In light of some of the episodes we have produced this season - the deeper pain points, the why work episodes - there is a looming question I have wanted to address with Jason, on behalf of all women.  And here is the question:   Why did you marry me? And what makes me think you want to be with me today? Maybe better put - convince me that you want to be with me.  And in all fairness - she also has to answer the same question:  do I want to be with him? Jason shared some of the ways he thinks he can show her that he wants to be with her and here they are: 1 - Protecting her from him.  (Jason gave the example of his selfishness or his ADD.) 2 - Sacrifice and surrender for her behalf - “I will surrender for her sake.” 3 - Pursuit of and commitment to holistic intimacy. 4 - Surrendering physical intimacy. 5 - Honoring her needs / boundaries. 6 - Saying it:  I want to be with you. 7 - Fidelity. 8 - Restitution - considering the question:  in what ways am I making your life better? Jason mentioned the quote from John Bowlby - “Security is knowing you exist in someone else’s mind.” I also shared what it looked like for me to get to a place of peace regarding this question.  I spoke about having an expectant hope / wait that this would get resolved, and to hold this conundrum out in front of me.  I had to decide if I wanted to be with Jason and I also had to watch to see if Jason showed (behaviorally) if he wanted to be with me, even when I was at my worst. Ultimately - it’s so important for her to know and experience the peace of mind that comes with knowing where he is at on this topic. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7. Registration for the next WOHT workshop for men coming April 4-6, 2025 outside Austin, TX. Click here for all the details and to register. Applications open today for the Spring 2025 Women’s Retreat.  Would love for you to consider joining me and my team there. Empowered Boundaries is SOLD OUT as of last week. Join the Wait List to be the first to know when the class opens again for registration. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! You can do that here.   For more information on RL Academy, click here. Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus. We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop! Click here to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. Click here to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast.

In this episode, we talk about the interplay between the “why” work and the “what now” work.  The why work is heavy in the beginning of the process, and continues to “hum” in the background - but the "what now" begins to take more and more precedence, or at least that is what we hope for. This wasn’t said in the episode but I want to say - I think the why work oftentimes takes a lot of intentionality (which means time) to take shape.  I don’t want to give the impression that the why work is easy - Jason continues to have revelations about his why two decades in! Let’s make sure we understand the difference between the two:  the why is the awareness and insight work v the what now is the character work.  And that is JUST as important.  Jason said early in this episode: the what now work is a new conscious way of living in light of the why.  Love. Jason reviews a couple of cautions: "what now" should not be “fix it” oriented. the “why" shouldn’t be a license to not look at the "what now" - and the opposite also applies - the "what now" shouldn’t be a license to not look at the “why”.  {And I realize - I am using double negatives here - please ignore!} the "what now" work can veer toward self-sufficiency and we have to remember that we do some of the work and God does the work in us as well. And a point of encouragement - doing the what now work can be empowering! As for practical next steps: consider: where are you stuck in the why? what are the character qualities that you DO want to live into? Bottom line - we don’t want to get so stuck in the why to the point where we aren’t able to move forward into the “what do I do now”.  And in that - the “what now” can be empowering to lean into - sometimes, like Jason shared in the final story - it takes a reframe. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7. Join the Wait List here so that you are the first to know about the next WOHT workshop for men coming April 4-6, 2025 outside Austin, TX. Would love for you to consider joining me at the Spring 2025 Women's Retreat - you can join the wait list here.  More details coming soon! Empowered Boundaries is SOLD OUT as of yesterday. Join the Wait List to be the first to know when the class opens again for registration. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! You can do that here.   For more information on RL Academy, click here. Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus. We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop! Click here to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. Click here to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast.

In today's episode - I wanted to talk to Jason about his needs and her needs in the recovery process in a more informal way (as in - we didn’t do a ton of prep work before hitting the record button).   I started off by sharing that I believe her needs are more important in the recovery process due to the covenant bond being broken (so in other words - one of the natural consequences of the sin of betrayal). Jason then chimed in and I really like what he said:  his needs aren’t less valid - it’s just that her needs take precedence until there is trust and security restored in the relationship.  Again, it’s NOT that his needs aren’t valid at all.  It’s that they have to be met in a different way (through community / other safe men) until the security and trust has been restored. Other things we discussed: - His needs being super-sized causes the level of expectation for them to be met to be super-sized which then means the level of disappointment that he has will be super-sized. - Character is built when our needs aren’t being met and yet we are being the best version of ourselves, sitting in unmet needs. - Jason says - men have to scrutinize their needs that they are bringing to the table.  This is because in the past his needs were born out of his wounded-ness.  (And with that, n faulty expectation that she will be the one to make up for his wounds / needs from childhood.) - Her owning what she needs is an important part of her process - it’s connected to boundaries and will help her move forward in her process and get clarity. - I mentioned that women oftentimes are seen as “needy” in the recovery process and Jason said the inverse applies as well - he also can appear to be “needy” in the recovery process.  We explain some of the reasons for this. - I mention the importance of the dynamic where he allows her the space to have needs - and how this is integral in moving the coupleship forward.  And yet - how does he do this when he is also walking around with a lot of needs that he *was* meeting in an illegitimate way and now having to  sit with unmet needs.  So messy.  Jason said three things that motivated him: - to meet my  need was an opportunity for him to rebuild trust. - My needs were an indication that I was still invested in the relationship. - My needs were an opportunity for him to be less focused on himself. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7. Join the Wait List here so that you are the first to know about the next WOHT workshop for men coming April 4-6, 2025 outside Austin, TX. Empowered Boundaries is coming back SOON. Join the Wait List to be the first to know when the class opens for registration. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! You can do that here.   Would love for you to consider joining me at the Spring 2025 Women's Retreat - you can join the wait list here.  More details coming soon! For more information on RL Academy, click here. Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus. We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop! Click here to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. Click here to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast.

This week we are talking resentment, iced tea, hand towels and dealing with Shelley’s mic situation.  I promise that is going to go away in future episodes - I didn’t realize that I am touching the mic so much!!!   I didn’t realize until about a year ago that resentment is a HUGE part of what he struggles with and has to untangle in his recovery process.  Specifically resentment toward her.  Literally - I had NO clue.   Our working definition of resentment:  demands equanimity and justice, used as a weapon, rooted in vows unfulfilled - and finally - projected at another person.  Ultimately - there is an urge (when feeling resentment) for the other person to make it right.   I really appreciated when Jason said:  “Resentment is largely connected to our core wounds. The things I resent you most for is most closely tied to the ‘I' that is biggest for me.”  If the core wound is powerlessness - there will be resentment where it feels like there is loss of control, if the core wound is insignificance - there will be resentment where he feels unseen, rejected or misunderstood.   We divided resentment into two types for our conversation:  false resentment and valid resentment.   False resentment - a projection of resentment onto her, essentially blaming her for the resentment (or deep disappointment) he is feeling.  Three types of false resentment: - I resent me and project it onto you. - I’ve violated one of my vows and I’m projecting resentment onto you. - I’m bargaining and projecting the resentment bubbling up onto you.   Valid resentment - legitimate hurt that is not tended to that eventually turns to bitterness and resentment.   What’s important is to pause anytime resentment is experienced - and consider what is at the root of it - if it’s valid resentment - we work toward grieving and forgiveness.  If it’s false resentment we work toward naming what is under the resentment, holding off on not blaming her, and rather dealing with what is at the root of the false resentment.   False resentment perpetuates the powerlessness, insignificance and incompetence that he is experiencing.  See how we are now chasing our tails?!  Thus - the false resentment is so important to watch for and name.  (I feel like we could also call it toxic resentment.)   At the very end of the episode - I ask Jason - is resentment typically used as an excuse for the acting out?  And Jason said yes.  I feel like we opened up another can of worms at the very end.  And to bring these show notes full circle - I just want to go organize my hand towels and wonder why in the world it took me 21 years to see how much his resentment plays into the process.   Learning with you, every step of the way.   We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7. The WOHT workshop for men just outside San Antonio, TX is sold out for January. Join the Wait List here so that you are the first to know about the next workshop this year. Empowered Boundaries is coming back SOON. Join the Wait List to be the first to know when the class opens for registration. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! You can do that here.   Would love for you to consider joining me at the Spring 2025 Women's Retreat - you can join the wait list here.  More details coming soon! For more information on RL Academy, click here. Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus. We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop! Click here to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. Click here to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast.