
The Social-Engineer Podcast
The Social-Engineer Podcast is about humans. Understanding how we interact, communicate and relay information can help us protect, mitigate and understand social engineering attacks
Latest episodes

Nov 14, 2022 • 46min
Ep. 186 - Human Element Series - Dont Be the Smartest Person in the Room with Stephanie Paul
Today we are joined by Stephanie Paul. Stephanie is an actress, a trainer, and keynote speaker. She has over 30 years of experience in the entertainment industry and she uses that now as she coaches and trains executives, sales teams, Tedx speakers and experts of all kinds to become master communicators. She is also a proud member of EOA and on the board of the directors of the Alzheimer’s Association in Orange County. She is an active member of WIB, and the Vice Chair of Young Women in Bio. [Nov 14th, 2022] 00:00 – Intro 00:23 – Intro Links Social-Engineer.com Managed Voice Phishing Managed Email Phishing Adversarial Simulations Social-Engineer channel on SLACK CLUTCH innocentlivesfoundation.org 02:10 – Stephanie Paul Intro 02:59 – How did you go from acting to coaching communications? 06:34 – Dark Side of the Moon 08:03 – The Magic of Story 09:14 – Can anyone learn to use storytelling? 11:43 – Practice, practice, practice! 13:49 – How is storytelling used in Leadership? 16:31 – Reflecting your values 18:15 – The beauty of mistakes 21:32 – You're not born with it! 23:28 – Mentorship 28:32 – The importance of Accountability 30:10 – Make them want the banana 33:24 – Valley Girl 35:39 – Find Stephanie Paul online LinkedIn: in/stephaniepaulinc/ Facebook: @StephaniePaulInc Website: stephaniepaulinc.com/ 36:50 – Women In Leadership 37:49 – Book Recommendations: Be Exceptional - Joe Navarro- https://amzn.to/3E8v21I Conversational Intelligence – Judith Glaser - https://amzn.to/3hzy1bX The Magic of Story – Stephanie Paul - https://amzn.to/3UzytFP 40:55 – Who are your greatest mentors? Mother Dr. Betty Uribe 44:42 – Guest Wrap Up 45:17 – Outro www.social-engineer.com www.innocentlivesfoundation.org

Nov 7, 2022 • 1h 3min
Ep. 185 - Nonverbals, Neuroception and understanding Intent with Chris Hadnagy and Dr. Abbie Marono
Welcome to the Social-Engineer Podcast: The Doctor Is In Series – where we will discuss understandings and developments in the field of psychology. In today’s episode, Chris and Abbie are not just going to talk about nonverbal communication at an observational level, but lay the ground work for a deeper understanding of nonverbals. Not just what certain behaviors tell us but WHY they tell us this, and where nonverbal communication originated from! [Nov 07, 2022] 00:00 – Intro 00:17 – Dr. Abbie Maroño Intro 01:10 – Intro Links Social-Engineer.com Managed Voice Phishing Managed Email Phishing Adversarial Simulations Social-Engineer channel on SLACK CLUTCH innocentlivesfoundation.org 04:01 – The topic of the day: Nonverbal Communication 10:25 – Everything comes back to Darwin 15:25 – In Utero 18:54 – A picture speaks 1000 words 20:31 – More "nature" than "nurture" 23:20 – Cultural vs Universal Gestures 27:17 – Looking at "Intention" 32:24 – Linking Non-verbals to Intention 36:32 – The Doctor is REALLY in! 38:37 – Don't Look Up (or away!) 42:35 – Response Behavior 46:58 – Neuroception - Trust your gut! 53:48 – The Takeaway 56:04 – Man's Best Friend 57:13 – Wrap Up 58:53 – Book Recommendations The Expression of the Emotions in Man and Animals – Charles Darwin What Every BODY is Saying – Joe Navarro Bodily Communication – Michael Argyle The Naked Ape – Desmond Morris Emotions Revealed – Paul Ekman The Dictionary of Body Language – Joe Navarro 01:02:34 – Outro www.social-engineer.com www.innocentlivesfoundation.org Find us online: Twitter: https://twitter.com/abbiejmarono LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/dr-abbie-maroño-phd-35ab2611a Twitter: https://twitter.com/humanhacker LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/christopherhadnagy Select research: Allen, S. (2018). The science of awe (pp. 58-69). Greater Good Science: John Templeton Foundation. Bargh J, Chartrand T (1999) The unbearable automaticity of being. Am Psychol 54: 462–479. Bousmalis, K., Mehu, M., & Pantic, M. (2013). Towards the automatic detection of spontaneous agreement and disagreement based on nonverbal behaviour: A survey of related cues, databases, and tools. Image and vision computing, 31(2), 203-221. Bryant, G. A. (2020). Evolution, structure, and functions of human laughter. In The handbook of communication science and biology (pp. 63-77). Routledge. Chakrabarty, S., Widing, R. E., & Brown, G. (2014). Selling behaviours and sales performance: the moderating and mediating effects of interpersonal mentalizing. Journal of Personal Selling & Sales Management, 34(2), 112-122. Chen M, Bargh JA (1999) Consequences of automatic evaluation: Immediate behavioral predispositions to approach or avoid the stimulus. Pers Soc Psychol B 25: 215–224. Demuru, E., & Giacoma, C. (2022). Interacting primates: the biological roots of human communication. Ethology Ecology & Evolution, 34(3), 201-204. Ekman, P. (1971). Universals and cultural differences in facial expressions of emotion. In Nebraska symposium on motivation. University of Nebraska Press. Ekman, P., & Keltner, D. (1973). Universal facial expressions of emotion. Studia Psychologica, 15(2), 140-147. Gordon, R. A., & Druckman, D. (2018). Nonverbal behaviour as communication: Approaches, issues, and research. In The handbook of communication skills (pp. 81-134). Routledge. Heuer, K., Rinck, M., & Becker, E. S. (2007). Avoidance of emotional facial expressions in social anxiety: The approach–avoidance task. Behaviour research and therapy, 45(12), 2990-3001. Mathis, V., & Kenny, P. J. (2018). Neuroscience: brain mechanisms of blushing. Current Biology, 28(14), R791-R792. Müller, P., Huang, M. X., & Bulling, A. (2018, March). Detecting low rapport during natural interactions in small groups from non-verbal behaviour. In 23rd International Conference on Intelligent User Interfaces (pp. 153-164). Neidlinger, K., Truong, K. P., Telfair, C., Feijs, L., Dertien, E., & Evers, V. (2017, March). AWElectric: that gave me goosebumps, did you feel it too?. In Proceedings of the Eleventh International Conference on Tangible, Embedded, and Embodied Interaction (pp. 315-324). Parr, L. A., Micheletta, J., & Waller, B. M. (2016). Nonverbal communication in primates: Observational and experimental approaches. Pohjavaara, P., Telaranta, T., & Väisänen, E. (2003). The role of the sympathetic nervous system in anxiety: is it possible to relieve anxiety with endoscopic sympathetic block?. Nordic journal of psychiatry, 57(1), 55-60. Reissland, N., & Austen, J. (2018). Goal directed behaviours: the development of pre-natal touch behaviours. In Reach-to-Grasp Behavior (pp. 3-17). Routledge. Schug, J., Matsumoto, D., Horita, Y., Yamagishi, T., & Bonnet, K. (2010). Emotional expressivity as a signal of cooperation. Evolution and Human Behavior, 31(2), 87-94. Segerstråle, U., & Molnár, P. (2018). Nonverbal communication: where nature meets culture. Routledge. Waterson, R. H., Lander, E. S., & Wilson, R. K. (2005). Initial sequence of the chimpanzee genome and comparison with the human genome. Nature, 437(7055), 69. White, P. (2016). Reading the Blush. Configurations, 24(3), 281-301. Woud, M. L., Maas, J., Becker, E. S., & Rinck, M. (2013). Make the manikin move: Symbolic approach–avoidance responses affect implicit and explicit face evaluations. Journal of Cognitive Psychology, 25(6), 738-744.

Oct 24, 2022 • 43min
Ep. 184 - SE Etc. Series - Ryan Didn't Die with Patrick and Chris
Welcome to the Social-Engineer Podcast: The SE Etc. Series. This series will be hosted by Chris Hadnagy, CEO of Social-Engineer LLC, and The Innocent Lives Foundation, as well as Social-Engineer.Org and The Institute for Social Engineering. Chris will be joined by his co-host Patrick Laverty as they discuss topics pertaining to the world of Social Engineering. [Oct 24th, 2022] 00:00 – Intro 00:17 – Patrick Laverty Intro 00:58 – Intro Links Social-Engineer.com Managed Voice Phishing Managed Email Phishing Adversarial Simulations Social-Engineer channel on SLACK CLUTCH innocentlivesfoundation.org 03:28 – This month’s dumpster dive: Great Stories 04:01 – Oceans 11 1/2: Ryan Didn't Die 05:14 – Let the testing begin! 06:36 – OSINT & Building a Pretext 10:06 – Never lose focus of your SCOPE 11:52 – Stay with the Pretext! 14:53 – Don't Drink & Shred 18:36 – Always working 19:55 – The Story Continues... 29:14 – You can't prepare for Bad Luck 35:04 – Being an advocate, not an adversary 36:46 – Not quite a clean getaway 38:40 – The value of stories 40:34 – Coming up next month 41:43 – Wrap Up & Outro www.social-engineer.com www.innocentlivesfoundation.org Find us online Chris Hadnagy Twitter: @humanhacker LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/christopherhadnagy Patrick Laverty Twitter: @plaverty9 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/plaverty9

Oct 17, 2022 • 41min
Ep. 183 - Security Awareness Series - I Promise You That's Not Amazon On The Phone with Kevin Gowen
Today our guest joining us is Kevin Gowen. Kevin serves as Chief Information Security Officer for Synovus and is responsible for information and cyber security, physical security, business continuity, fraud, and financial crimes. He was named Chief Information Security Officer in 2015. Gowen earned Bachelor’s and Master’s degrees in Mechanical Engineering from the Georgia Institute of Technology. He was a recipient of the James H. Blanchard Leadership award and was named Tech Exec Networks’ Information Security Executive of the Year in May 2022. Gowen is an alumnus of Leadership Columbus and serves as a board member of the National Technology Security Coalition along with serving on multiple advisory boards and in industry group leadership roles. [Oct 17th, 2022] 00:00 – Intro 00:56 – Intro Links: Social-Engineer.com Managed Voice Phishing Managed Email Phishing Adversarial Simulations - Social-Engineer channel on SLACK CLUTCH innocentlivesfoundation.org 03:55 – Kevin Gowen Intro 05:55 – What made you want to go into InfoSec? 06:56 – Managing Risk with teams of 10,000+ 08:24 – How do you stay in front of the next attack? 10:15 – Top 3 Talking Points to assure the stakeholders 11:27 – How do you educate the customer? 13:04 – The "push" during Cybersecurity Awareness Month 14:23 – That's not Amazon! 15:55 – How are you attracting and retaining talent during this employee drought? 20:23 – Poaching vs Developing 22:46 – Communicating the need for diversity down the ladder 24:25 – Cross-industry and Inter-department hiring 26:24 – If I knew then... 28:41 – Defining our "true" critical assets 30:03 – Be willing to be evaluated 32:32 – Who helped get you to where you are today? Father IBM Manager Allen Gula, Jr 34:47 – Find Kevin Gowen online LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-gowen 35:59 – Book Recommendations The Leadership Challenge – Barry Posner The Founders Mentality – James Allen & Chris Zook Better Great Than Never – Lindsay Dare Shoop 39:28 – Wrap Up 40:13 – Outro www.social-engineer.com www.innocentlivesfoundation.org

Oct 10, 2022 • 38min
Ep. 182 - Human Element Series - Strategic Thought Time and Grit with David Hill
Today we are joined by David Hill. David is currently a licensed real estate broker in Massachusetts and is also a Success Certified Business Coach and Cardone University Sales Trainer. Davis has been a top producing real estate agent for over 18 years as well as a phone sales trainer with over 36 years’ sales experience in multiple industries. David is also the host of the Path to Mastery podcast and the author of two books, “The Sales Playbook” and “Getting your Quality of Life back”. David also enjoys traveling, spending time with his 3 daughters and his wife, and enjoys exercise as a triathlete who has competed in an Ironman Race. [Oct 10th, 2022] 00:00 – Intro 00:20 – Intro Links Social-Engineer.com Managed Voice Phishing Managed Email Phishing Adversarial Simulations Social-Engineer channel on SLACK CLUTCH innocentlivesfoundation.org - http://www.innocentlivesfoundation.org/ 01:41 – David Hill Intro 02:41 – How did you get started in sales? 03:51 – The way sales have changed over the decades 07:15 – Improving your quality of life 09:45 – Setting Standards 11:48 – Getting over the fear of setting boundaries 16:38 – The Power of Resilience 19:37 – Developing your own Grit 23:14 – Steps to finding your passion 28:48 – Strategic Thought Time 31:28 – Who are your greatest mentors? John Alexandrov Jim Rohn Jairek Robbins 33:42 – Book Recommendations: Shift - Gary Keller The Art of Impossible - Steven Kotler The Sales Playbook - David Hill 36:36 – Find David Hill online Website: www.davidhill.link Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/DavidHillcoach/ 37:26 – Guest Wrap Up 37:54 – Outro www.social-engineer.com www.innocentlivesfoundation.org

Oct 3, 2022 • 54min
Ep. 181 - The Doctor Is In Series - Can You Fake It Till You Make It
Welcome to the Social-Engineer Podcast: The Doctor Is In Series – where we will discuss understandings and developments in the field of psychology. This is Episode 181 and hosted by Chris Hadnagy, CEO of Social-Engineer LLC, and The Innocent Lives Foundation, as well as Social-Engineer.Org and The Institute for Social Engineering. Joining Chris is co-host Dr. Abbie Maroño. Abbie is Director of education at Social-Engineer, LLC, and a perception management coach. She has a PhD in Behaviour analysis and specializes in nonverbal communication, trust, and cooperation. Today’s conversation will be on the topic of Can You Fake It Till You Make It. [Oct 03, 2022] 00:00 – Intro 00:21 – Dr. Abbie Maroño Intro 01:16 – Intro Links Social-Engineer.com Managed Voice Phishing Managed Email Phishing Adversarial Simulations Social-Engineer channel on SLACK CLUTCH innocentlivesfoundation.org 03:45 – The topic of the day: Can you fake it till you make it? 05:15 – The Power of the Mind 06:53 – The Placebo Milkshake 12:07 – The difference with disorders 14:09 – “I'm gonna be happy!” 15:55 – Facial Feedback Hypothesis 21:00 – The power of expression 22:18 – Botox for happiness? 30:27 – Power Posing 37:39 – V is for Victory! 39:07 – The basis of non-verbals 41:34 – Self Talk 44:34 – All or Nothing 47:37 – Public Speaking or Firing Squad? 49:34 – Book Recommendations You, Only Better – Nicholas Bate - https://amzn.to/3LTGkul Don't Sweat the Small Stuff – Richard Carlson - https://amzn.to/3C0eg3I 50:26 – Wrap Up 50:58 – Find us online Twitter: https://twitter.com/abbiejmarono LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/dr-abbie-maroño-phd-35ab2611a Twitter: https://twitter.com/humanhacker LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/christopherhadnagy 51:48 – Outro www.social-engineer.com www.innocentlivesfoundation.org Select research: Carney, D. R., Cuddy, A. J., & Yap, A. J. (2010). Power posing: Brief nonverbal displays affect neuroendocrine levels and risk tolerance. Psychological science, 21(10), 1363-1368. Coles, N. A., Larsen, J. T., & Lench, H. C. (2019). A meta-analysis of the facial feedback literature: Effects of facial feedback on emotional experience are small and variable. Psychological bulletin, 145(6), 610. Crum, A. J., Corbin, W. R., Brownell, K. D., & Salovey, P. (2011). Mind over milkshakes: mindsets, not just nutrients, determine ghrelin response. Health Psychology, 30(4), 424. Fischer, J., Fischer, P., Englich, B., Aydin, N., & Frey, D. (2011). Empower my decisions: The effects of power gestures on confirmatory information processing. Journal of Experimental Social Psychology, 47(6), 1146-1154. Garrison, K. E., Tang, D., & Schmeichel, B. J. (2016). Embodying power: A preregistered replication and extension of the power pose effect. Social Psychological and Personality Science, 7(7), 623-630. Gronau, Q. F., Van Erp, S., Heck, D. W., Cesario, J., Jonas, K. J., & Wagenmakers, E. J. (2017). A Bayesian model-averaged meta-analysis of the power pose effect with informed and default priors: The case of felt power. Comprehensive Results in Social Psychology, 2(1), 123-138. Hardy, J., Gammage, K., & Hall, C. (2001). A descriptive study of athlete self-talk. The sport psychologist, 15(3), 306-318. Kross, E., Bruehlman-Senecal, E., Park, J., Burson, A., Dougherty, A., Shablack, H., ... & Ayduk, O. (2014). Self-talk as a regulatory mechanism: how you do it matters. Journal of personality and social psychology, 106(2), 304. McIntosh, D. N. (1996). Facial feedback hypotheses: Evidence, implications, and directions. Motivation and emotion, 20(2), 121-147. Neal, D. T., & Chartrand, T. L. (2011). Embodied emotion perception: amplifying and dampening facial feedback modulates emotion perception accuracy. Social Psychological and Personality Science, 2(6), 673-678. Neary, N. M., Small, C. J., & Bloom, S. R. (2003). Gut and mind. Gut, 52(7), 918-921. Shackell, E. M., & Standing, L. G. (2007). Mind Over Matter: Mental Training Increases Physical Strength. North American Journal of Psychology, 9(1). Zamanian, A., Jolfaei, A. G., Mehran, G., & Azizian, Z. (2017). Efficacy of botox versus placebo for treatment of patients with major depression. Iranian journal of public health, 46(7), 982. Khademi, M., Roohaninasab, M., Goodarzi, A., Seirafianpour, F., Dodangeh, M., & Khademi, A. (2021). The healing effects of facial BOTOX injection on symptoms of depression alongside its effects on beauty preservation. Journal of cosmetic dermatology, 20(5), 1411-1415. Carter, Bradin T., "Is Botox A Safe And Effective Treatment To Reduce Symptoms Of Depression?" (2017). PCOM Physician Assistant Studies Student Scholarship. 404. https://digitalcommons.pcom.edu/pa_systematic_reviews/404

Sep 26, 2022 • 42min
Ep. 180 - Twitter, Twillio and Cisco – Oh My! With Patrick and Chris
Welcome to the Social-Engineer Podcast: The SE Etc. Series. This series will be hosted by Chris Hadnagy, CEO of Social-Engineer LLC, and The Innocent Lives Foundation, as well as Social-Engineer.Org and The Institute for Social Engineering. Chris will be joined by his co-host Patrick Laverty as they discuss topics pertaining to the world of Social Engineering. [Sept 26, 2022] 00:00 – Intro 00:17 – Patrick Laverty Intro 01:12 – The Origin Story 02:07 – Intro Links Social-Engineer.com Managed Voice Phishing Managed Email Phishing Adversarial Simulations Social-Engineer channel on SLACK CLUTCH innocentlivesfoundation.org 04:41 – The importance of knowing past breaches 06:20 – The Twitter Breach (The F.U.D. train) 12:25 – The Twillio Breach 13:02 – The rise of SMISHING 25:00 – “Don't click!” 28:42 – The Cisco Breach 29:19 – MFA Fatigue 36:18 – The role of Social Engineering in these attacks 39:40 – Find us online Chris Hadnagy Twitter: @humanhacker LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/christopherhadnagy Patrick Laverty Twitter: @plaverty9 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/plaverty9 39:59 – Book (and Bees) Recommendations A BEEhavioral Lesson – Christopher Hadnagy 40:45 – Wrap Up & Outro www.social-engineer.com www.innocentlivesfoundation.org

Sep 19, 2022 • 38min
Ep. 179 - Security Awareness Series - Can You Really Prevent Burnout with Erin Maloney
Today we are joined by Erin Maloney. Erin earned her Bachelor of Science degree in psychology from Saint Joseph’s University in Philadelphia, PA. She then earned her master’s degree in social work from Widener University in Chester, PA. Erin holds a license as a Licensed Clinical Social Worker. Erin has worked in the behavioral and mental health field for over 20 years. Her experience has included: case management, addiction counseling, behavioral specialty work, school based behavioral health services, and private practice. Erin has worked with a wide range of clients from young children to older adults with a variety of mental health needs. Erin is also the Director of Wellness for the Innocent Lives Foundation. She has a strong passion for the mission of the foundation to help protect innocent children. [Sept 19, 2022] 00:00 – Intro 00:24 – Intro Links Social-Engineer.com Managed Voice Phishing Managed Email Phishing Adversarial Simulations Social-Engineer channel on SLACK CLUTCH innocentlivesfoundation.org 02:54 – Erin Maloney Intro 04:11 – What motivated you to become a mental health expert? 06:58 – Helping the Helpers 09:26 – What is "burnout" and what does it look like? 12:35 – Tired or Exhausted? 13:26 – Where "burnout" can come from 14:12 – Burnout Prevention 15:35 – The Importance of “NO” 19:54 – How to get off the road to "burnout" 21:08 – When open communication isn't there 22:51 – The physical toll is real! 24:58 – What else can we do? (Mixing it up) 27:59 – Resources to help with burnout 31:10 – The "little things" help 32:01 – Is there anyone who helped you get to where you are? 34:35 – Book Recommendations The Cognitive Behavioral Workbook for Anxiety – William J. Knaus - https://amzn.to/3LqQNgk 36:53 – Find Erin Maloney online LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/erin-maloney-lcsw Email: erin.m@innocentlivesfoundation.org 37:24 – Wrap Up 37:43 – Outro www.social-engineer.com www.innocentlivesfoundation.org

Sep 12, 2022 • 53min
Ep. 178 - Human Element Series - Become a Transformational Charismatic Leader with Dr. Ron Riggio
Today Chris is talking with Ronald E. Riggio, Ph.D., the Henry R. Kravis Professor of Leadership and Organizational Psychology and former Director of the Kravis Leadership Institute at Claremont McKenna College. Dr. Riggio is a social/personality psychologist and leadership scholar with more than a dozen authored or edited books and more than 150 articles/book chapters. His research interests are in leadership and organizational communication, particularly leader nonverbal communication, and emotional competence. He is part of the Fullerton Longitudinal Study that is examining leadership development across the lifespan (beginning at 1 year of age and continuing through adulthood). [Sept 12th, 2022] 00:00 – Intro Social-Engineer.com Managed Voice Phishing Managed Email Phishing Adversarial Simulations Social-Engineer channel on SLACK CLUTCH innocentlivesfoundation.org 00:20 – Intro Links 03:02 – Dr. Ron Riggio Intro 04:13 – How did you become a professor of leadership? 07:41 – What year did you start focusing on charisma? 09:16 – The importance of charisma for leadership 12:49 – How does one learn to develop personal charisma? 15:27 – How important is getting gestures right? 18:22 – The benefits of showing emotional expressions 21:41 – Dynamic Attractiveness 23:45 – What can I do to become a better leader? 26:51 – Transformational Leadership 28:34 – Leaders need to know their followers 29:41 – How do you lead at scale? 32:42 – Developing leadership capacity in others 35:44 – The attraction to the "Strong Man" 40:11 – Spare the rod 44:16 – Who do you consider your biggest mentors? Howard S. Friedman Bernard Bass 47:04 – Book Recommendations: Influence: Science and Practice - Robert Cialdini Leadership - James MacGregor Burns Daily Leadership Development - Ronald E. Riggio 50:58 – Find Dr. Riggio on the web Twitter: https://twitter.com/ronriggio Website: www.riggioleadership.org Blog Site: psychologytoday.com/blog/cutting-edge-leadership 51:54 – Guest Wrap Up 52:28 – Outro www.social-engineer.com www.innocentlivesfoundation.org

Sep 5, 2022 • 48min
Ep. 177 - The Doctor Is In Series - Hold This Coffee - Subliminal Persuasion
Dr. Abbie Maroño, director of education at Social-Engineer, discusses subliminal persuasion. Debunking myths, she explores the correlation between temperature and perception, highlighting the impact of temperature on our mental health. The podcast also dives into the power of subliminal persuasion through senses such as smell and music. The episode concludes with recommendations for further reading and a preview of next month's topic.