The Forget The Funnel Podcast

Join April Dunford, a product positioning expert and author of 'Obviously Awesome', as she shares her insights on optimizing product-led sales strategies. She discusses the common pitfalls teams encounter, like unclear ideal customer profiles and the dangers of premature sales involvement. April emphasizes the importance of distinguishing between product and economic buyers and leveraging existing customers for better engagement. Learn how to successfully scale sales while maintaining synergy with your product-led growth efforts.

SaaS teams are falling into two extremes right now:AI-powered SaaS teams moving at a breakneck pace—roadmaps shifting weekly, product teams shipping nonstop, and marketing scrambling to keep up (while also getting bombarded by their own shiny objects).More traditional SaaS teams stuck in analysis paralysis—waiting for perfect data, overanalyzing, and second-guessing instead of fixing what’s broken.The problem? Both extremes lead to the same outcome: Teams are busy but not making progress, nothing really sticks, and the customer experience suffers.This kind of decision-making chaos isn’t new, but with how quickly things are changing in tech because of AI, it’s more extreme than ever.In this episode of the Forget The Funnel podcast, Georgiana breaks down:Why speed without clarity leads to wasted effortHow teams end up optimizing in silos and breaking the customer experienceWhat first principles actually help teams make better decisions—fasterIf your team is moving too fast, too slow, or just feeling stuck, this one's for you.Key Moments04:58 | Examples of AI-powered SaaS teams shipping nonstop but struggling to make things stick, versus traditional SaaS teams hesitating to act due to analysis paralysis.10:39 | When Moving Fast Doesn’t Lead to Progress. Gia breaks down how rapid execution without a strategy leads to wasted effort, misalignment, and confusion across teams.16:40 | The Trap of Overanalyzing and Second-Guessing. A look at how some teams slow themselves down by waiting for perfect data and how indecision can be just as costly as moving too fast.24:54 | The Consequences of Optimizing in Silos. Why teams that focus on individual parts of the customer experience without a broader strategy end up with broken and disjointed experiences.36:57 | How first principles provide clarity when teams are stuck, offering a framework to cut through noise, avoid wasted effort, and focus on what truly matters.Links  & ResourcesHow to Break Free From the ‘Data Rich, Insights Poor’ TrapFeatures vs. Benefits: How to Maximize the Impact of Your MessagingWhy Customer-Led KPIs Are Your Growth Engine (Part 1 of 2)Unlocking Retention and Growth: How to Set Customer-led KPIs (Part 2 of 2)As always, you can learn more about Forget The Funnel here: Read the Forget The Funnel Book Check out Forget the Funnel’s website

Too many SaaS founders and GMT leaders confuse positioning with messaging—and it’s holding back their growth. If you’ve ever struggled with homepage copy, sales messaging, or team alignment, this episode is for you.Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) and April Dunford (author of Obviously Awesome and Sales Pitch) break down why messaging can’t work without clear positioning—and how this confusion leads to weak differentiation, internal misalignment, and wasted marketing and product growth efforts.If your SaaS messaging feels scattered or ineffective, your positioning might be the real problem. Listen in to learn how to fix it.Positioning ≠ Messaging – Positioning defines who you compete against, what makes you different, and why customers choose you. Messaging is how you communicate that in different contexts.Why SaaS Teams Get This Wrong – Many founders try to “fix” messaging when the real issue is unclear positioning.The Problem with Guessing – How teams waste time on tactics instead of using customer insights to drive strategy.Why a Messaging Document is Non-Negotiable – April shares why teams without one end up in a game of "broken telephone."The PLG vs. Sales-Led Divide – Gia explains why positioning is different for self-serve SaaS vs. sales-led B2B and how each model should approach it.Why Homepage Teardowns Are Mostly BS – And what actually makes a homepage (or any messaging) effective.00:03:10 – Why Founders Confuse Positioning & Messaging (And Why It’s a Problem)00:06:45 – The Core Components of Strong Positioning00:12:00 – The Messaging Mistake That Creates Internal Chaos00:24:30 – How PLG & Sales-Led SaaS Should Approach Positioning Differently00:30:00 – The Problem with Homepage Teardowns & Why Context Matters00:43:20 – How to Stop Guessing & Get Positioning RightApril’s books: Obviously Awesome (on positioning) & Sales Pitch (on sales narratives)April’s podcast: The Positioning Show with April DunfordForget The Funnel: Book & Consulting – Helping PLG SaaS teams build growth strategies based on customer insights, not guesswork.As always, you can learn more about Forget The Funnel here: Read the Forget The Funnel Book Check out Forget the Funnel’s website

In today’s episode of the Forget The Funnel podcast, we tackle one of the biggest challenges facing SaaS companies: differentiation. With AI tools and products flooding the market and competition skyrocketing, standing out has never been this hard. But here’s what you might not know—your messaging can be your moat.In this episode we'll cover:Why good positioning alone isn’t enough—and how powerful, pervasive messaging is needed bring it to lifeThe biggest messaging pitfalls SaaS companies fall into (and how to avoid them)How to craft messaging that resonates and how to leverage it, as your moat, at every stage of your customer journeyReal-world examples of companies that get messaging right (and what you can learn from them)If your product is getting lost in a flood of competitors, this episode is for you.00:03:30 – The market is more crowded than ever: how AI has accelerated competition00:07:10 – Positioning vs. messaging: why positioning alone isn’t enough00:12:15 – The most common messaging mistakes SaaS companies make00:17:40 – How to align messaging across the entire customer experience00:22:55 – The role of messaging in onboarding, retention & expansion00:28:20 – Real-world examples of SaaS companies with a strong messaging moat00:34:10 – How to test & refine your messaging to drive conversionsAs always, you can learn more about Forget The Funnel here: Read the Forget The Funnel Book Check out Forget the Funnel’s website

This episode of The Forget the Funnel Podcast is a must-listen for B2B SaaS founders and teams ready to unlock the power of segmentation. Gia tackles the critical importance of segmentation in driving targeted marketing, better customer experiences, and scalable growth strategies. If your team targets more than one customer segment but struggles to go from data overload to building segmented experiences that actually drive revenue growth, this episode is for you.In this episode, you’ll learn:Why segmentation is essential for improving engagement and conversion rates.How understanding customer Jobs-to-be-Done leads to more effective demographic and firmographic segmentation.Why prioritizing multiple segments can be tricky for teams and how to focus your efforts.Actionable steps to iterate and improve your segmentation over time.Packed with practical advice and real-world examples, this episode will leave you with clear strategies available to you to get more from the marketing you're already doing and based on opportunities that you have today. If you have any questions you can connect with Georgiana Laudi (Gia) on LinkedIn. Visit us at forgetthefunnel.com, and don’t forget to rate, review, and subscribe to the podcast. Tune in on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or watch on YouTube.Chapters[00:00] Introduction: Why most segmentation strategies fail SaaS teams.[02:15] Gia’s take on the biggest misconception about segmentation.[08:45] Deep dive on segmentation strategies from awareness all the way to expansion and upsell.[17:50] The connection between segmentation and customer retention.[22:10] Tailored onboarding: How to get it right for multiple segments.[32:35] The iterative process: How to refine and improve your segmentation over time.LinksPrev Ep: https://youtu.be/q_mKOtt-vg0?si=IEqNXm-Nm3lEBQ0gLinkedIn Article - ICP vs Personas vs Jobs-to-be-Done https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/unlocking-scale-strategic-customer-segmentation-georgiana-laudi-z769f/SparkToro: https://sparktoro.com/As always, you can learn more about Forget The Funnel here: Read the Forget The Funnel Book Check out Forget the Funnel’s website

This episode of The Forget The Funnel Podcast, Gia dives deep on how we’ve become data-rich but insights-poor and the 4 growth stalls you’re likely experiencing as a result. If you're a SaaS founder or product manager bogged down in the weeds of hypothesis-mode and product growth challenges, you’ll want to tune in.In this episode, you’ll learn:How understanding the full customer journey—not just metrics—can transform your growth strategy (and how Gia’s team hit 900% revenue growth).How to uncover what really drives value and revenue with actionable customer research (featuring lessons from real SaaS companies).The secret to aligning product and customer experiences for scalable, predictable growth. Why product marketing is the unsung hero for team alignment and smarter decision-making.How to ditch panic-mode tactics and build long-term, customer-driven strategies that work. This episode is packed with no-nonsense advice and strategies you can start implementing right away. It’s time to move from operating in hypothesis-mode to focused, intentional strategy.For further questions, connect with Georgiana on LinkedIn. Visit us at forgetthefunnel.com. Your feedback through ratings, reviews, and subscriptions means the world to us.Tune in on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or watch the full presentation on YouTube.What's in this episode:[02:15] - How a visit to Airbnb’s office changed Georgiana's perspective on customer value. [09:40] - The four core reasons why product growth stalls and how to counter them. [14:22] - Strategies for penetrating market saturation and retaining your customers. [21:10] - Balancing the urgency for short-term gains with the necessity for long-term growth.[27:35] - Practical examples demonstrating companies that prioritize customer insights. [32:45] - Understanding and leveraging the unique role of product marketing in driving growth.[38:50] - How to operationalize customer insights into actionable growth strategies.LinksBusiness of Software: https://businessofsoftware.org/talks/georgiana-laudi-data-rich-insight-poor-the-real-reason-your-growth-is-stalled/As always, you can learn more about Forget The Funnel here: Read the Forget The Funnel Book Check out Forget the Funnel’s website

AI is everywhere. We’re using it in our marketing, in our products, in our day-to-day task management. We’re all using it in one way or another. But when it comes to learning from and understanding your customers and what drives them to make decisions, proceed with caution.Here’s how we see it:To grow revenue, you need to increase conversions. To increase conversions, you need to create better customer experiences. To create better customer experiences, you need to understand the why - that critical context that leads your customers to make the decisions they do. Are AI tools capable of that? Cue the sad trombone. But - that doesn’t mean AI has no role to play in customer research. And that is what this latest episode of the pod is all about. This week on Forget the Funnel, Georgiana takes on the 100-ton elephant in the room: whether AI can help us learn more about our customers. Drawing from a recent months-long Custom GPT experiment and conversations with SaaS teams and colleagues, Georgiana shares her take on using it as a research tool.Timestamps02:10 — What is the role of AI in customer research? Georgiana explores this burning topic and gives examples of what AI can and cannot do. 05:00 — Georgiana explains why the results of their Custom GPT research experiment fell flat and why they needed a human to connect the dots.10:16 — Georgiana highlights the importance of foundational customer intelligence and explains why customer knowledge shouldn’t be guesswork but insight-driven, especially when integrating AI. 13:51 — She discusses how AI helped her leverage a large set of customer surveys and interpret their results.17:10 — She breaks down the potential risks of using AI for customer research, privacy policy issues, and other potential threats.19:06 — She finishes off by sharing the current stage of experiments and goals for collaborating with AI in customer research.LinksFollow Georgiana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgianalaudi/Follow Bob Moesta on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobmoesta/ Read the uber-practical Forget The Funnel book: https://forgetthefunnel.com/customer-led-growth/bookCheck out Forget the Funnel’s website: https://forgetthefunnel.com/As always, you can learn more about Forget The Funnel here: Read the Forget The Funnel Book Check out Forget the Funnel’s website

If you’re trying to scale your SaaS, but you’re stuck tweaking features, following best practices and listening to experts who know nothing about you, your customers or your product… you’re doing it wrong. In this no-fluff episode of the Forget The Funnel podcast, Gia and Claire cut through the noise and give you the exact steps for growing your product by understanding what your best customers actually need.Forget building for the masses. Forget best practices. Forget guesswork. It’s time to focus on the customers who understand the value of your product and turn them into loyal, long-term revenue. Customer-Led Growth is the framework that gets you there—fast.What You’ll Learn00:36 — What the heck is Customer-Led Growth? Claire and Gia break down why most SaaS founders misinterpret this concept—and why it’s costing you scale.07:34 — Step One: Get out of your product bubble and into your customer’s head. Why focusing on the customer’s problem—not your product—is where growth starts.11:15 — Step Two: Map the customer journey like a pro. Learn how to move beyond “trial to paid” and take customers from curious prospects to raving fans.21:17 — Build high-converting customer experiences by solving real problems—no shiny features needed.23:04 — Step Three: Figure out what “good” really looks like for your best-fit customers and find the gaps in your current experience.26:43 — Case Study: Claire and Gia walk you through how they used the CLG framework with Invoice Simple to uncover hidden growth levers.Why This MattersScaling your SaaS isn’t about cramming in new features or guessing what customers want. It’s about understanding who your best customers are and solving their real problems. That’s what drives growth. If you want to unlock real scale, this episode is your playbook.Your Next MoveListen now, and then head to forgetthefunnel.com to get even more insights on how to turn Customer-Led Growth into your secret weapon for scale.As always, you can learn more about Forget The Funnel here: Read the Forget The Funnel Book Check out Forget the Funnel’s website

“Sell benefits, not features”. We’ve all seen the UserOnboard image of Mario + the magic flower = Super Mario. Or Popeye + spinach = super extra-strength Popeye. It’s the best practice that says you should focus on selling the benefits of your product, rather than the features. What if we told you that this is a best practice that’s lazy and risky?Welp. It is. Different customers value different things at different stages of their decision-making. We can’t assume that our customers only care about the benefits or business outcomes of your product. Don’t get us wrong. Making the outcomes your product provides clear is important. But is it the right thing to be leading with across all of your marketing and messaging and onboarding? I think you’re already picking up what we’re putting down. So what should you do instead? Shock. You gotta start with knowing what will resonate with your customers and then translating that into messaging that will convert. That’s what we dig into on this episode of the Forget The Funnel Podcast. And we’re joined by Anthony Pierri from FletchPMM  to help dispel the whole “sell benefits, not features” best practice brilliantly. He shares the example of the humble homepage; how a lot of brands write its content for the person who they think will approve the deal - some executive - leaning way too heavily into the ‘benefits’ and ‘outcomes’ they think they’ll care about. Increased revenue. Reduced risk. Saved time. …which leads to totally undifferentiated “me too” messaging. This episode is for SaaS founders & practitioners who are looking to: - Home in on the value themes your customers care about- Map those themes to relevant product capabilities (whether feature or benefit-based)- And make sure your messaging is targeted and effective and converts more high-LTV customers. Discussed: How exclusively focusing on benefits can lead to generic, “me too” messaging that turns prospects off - if they even pay attention in the first place. Why understanding what customers value at different decision-making stages leads to higher LTV customers. And techniques for identifying what resonates most with your customers to develop targeted messaging and marketing. As always, you can learn more about Forget The Funnel here: Read the Forget The Funnel Book Check out Forget the Funnel’s website

SaaS teams use the best practice of  A/B testing like a crutch for marketing, messaging and product growth decisions. And it makes sense. If you think about it, A/B testing something relieves you of so much burden. Not sure which headline is gonna resonate? Test it! Teammates have an (ahem, questionable) idea for how to improve conversions? Test it!Here’s the problem with the “test everything” approach: The vast majority of A/B testing is void of customer understanding and designed to make incremental improvements, typically without impacting revenue in any meaningful way.If you can 'cut the cord’ from the purely data-driven statistical model of trying to optimize a page or user journey, you can build bigger, better, more powerful A/B tests that hit customers directly in the feels (and your ARR).On this episode of the Forget the Funnel Podcast, Marc Thomas from Podia shares why testing isn’t the best practice it’s cracked up to be. Georgiana and Claire share when running tests is valuable and why knowing how your customers think, feel, and behave helps you run more productive and profitable tests.Timestamps:1:04—Marc Thomas discusses A/B testing as a flawed “best practice” in SaaS. He explains why it isn’t always the answer and why getting close to your best customers is a better alternative.10:28—Georgiana discusses scenarios when teams might use A/B testing, like validating a hypothesis before taking a big swing. She also explores when a smaller conversion rate can actually be a good thing.15:07—Claire explains why testing for testing’s sake will not produce the desired results. Instead, effective testing starts with understanding your customers to form stronger hypotheses.18:11—Georgiana tells a story of how testing went south for one company when the team tried to find a suitable pricing model. A/B testing steered them wrong until they zeroed in on their best-fit, higher-value customers and what value meant to them.23:29—Georgiana talks about the value of identifying Jobs-to-be-Done for one company so that they can build the customer experience around their high-value customers and optimize for the right things for the right customer.27:25—Claire points out how major organizational change can come from a handful of conversations and when SaaS companies should run tests.As always, you can learn more about Forget The Funnel here: Read the Forget The Funnel Book Check out Forget the Funnel’s website