Women Talkin' 'Bout AI

On saying no to “inevitable” AI—and what we say yes to instead.Kimberly and Jessica recently sat down with Melanie Dusseau and Miriam Reynoldson for an episode of Women Talkin’ ’Bout AI. We were especially looking forward to this conversation because Melanie and Miriam are our first guests who openly identify as “AI Resisters.” The timing also felt right. Both Kimberly and I have been reexamining our own stance on AI in education—how it intersects with learning, writing, and creativity—and the more distance we’ve had from running a tech company, the more critical and curious we’ve become.This episode digs into big, thorny questions:What Melanie calls “the drumbeat of inevitability” that pressures educators to adopt AIMiriam’s post-digital view of what it means to live in a world completely entangled with technology; and our shared inquiry into who actually benefits when AI tools promise to make everything faster and more efficient. We also talk about data ethics, creative integrity, and the growing movement of educators saying no to automation—not out of fear, but out of care for human learning and connection.It’s a thoughtful, challenging, and hopeful conversation—and we hope you enjoy it as much as we did.About our guests: Melanie is an Associate Professor of English at the University of Findlay and a writer whose work spans poetry, plays, and fiction. Miriam is a Melbourne-based digital learning designer, educator, and PhD candidate at RMIT University whose research explores the value of learning in times of digital ubiquity.Melanie and Miriam are co-authors of the Open Letter from Educators Who Refuse the Call to Adopt GenAI in Education, which has collected over 1,000 signatures and was featured in an article by Forbes. Melanie is also the author of the essay Burn It Down, which advocates for AI resistance in the academy. We highly recommend reading both before diving into the episode. Melanie's personal website and University of Findlay profileMiriam’s personal website and blog "Care Doesn't Scale" Signs Preceding the End of the World by Yuri HerreraAsimov’s Science FictionUrsula K. Le Guin  Ray BradburyLeave us a comment or a suggestion! Support the showContact Jessica or Kimberly on LinkedIn: Jessica's LinkedIn Kimberly's LinkedIn

In this episode of Women Talkin’ ’Bout AI, we sit down with Rebecca Fordon — law librarian, professor, and board member of the Free Law Project — to talk about how generative AI is transforming legal research, education, and the meaning of “expertise.”Rebecca helps us cut through the hype and ask harder questions: What problem are we really trying to solve with AI? Why are we using certain tools, and do we even know what data they’re built on?We talk about:🔹 How AI is reshaping the practice of legal research and what it means for the next generation of lawyers. 🔹 Why hallucinated case law and “certainty amplification” reveal deeper problems of trust and transparency. 🔹 The tension between speed and substance, and how “saving time” can actually shift where thinking happens. 🔹 The expert pipeline problem: what happens when AI replaces the messy, formative parts of learning? 🔹 How law librarians (and educators everywhere) are taking on the role of translators, bridging human judgment and machine outputs. 🔹 The open-access movement in law and how the Free Law Project is democratizing legal data.At its heart, this episode is about reclaiming curiosity, caution, and critical thinking in a field that depends on precision, and remembering that faster isn’t always smarter.Learn more: 🔗 Free Law Project: https://free.law 🔗 AI Law Librarians: https://ailawlibrarians.com🔗  Aaron Tay's musings about librarianship: https://musingsaboutlibrarianship.blogspot.com/🔗  Refusing GenAI in Writing Studies: A Quickstart Guide: https://refusinggenai.wordpress.com/Leave us a comment or a suggestion! Support the showContact Jessica or Kimberly on LinkedIn: Jessica's LinkedIn Kimberly's LinkedIn

In this episode of Women Talkin’ ‘Bout AI, we start by discussing the findings of a 2024 study "Global Evidence on Gender Gaps and Generative AI" (🔗 below). One overall finding is that women are 20–25% less likely than men to use generative AI, which unspools into something bigger: a story about power, voice, and who gets to shape the future.We also discuss own experiences in tech, noticing how the gender gap in AI isn’t just about access to tools. It’s about what counts as legitimate work, whose voices are amplified, and how cultural scripts around “cheating,” confidence, and authority get absorbed into the most influential technologies of our time.We talk about:🔹 Why women’s hesitation around AI isn’t simply resistance, but often a reflection of ethics and identity.🔹 How underrepresentation today could mean future AI systems are trained on a distorted mirror of humanity.🔹 What it means to think of AI as both a child we’re raising and a cultural intermediary that’s already reshaping our sense of normal.🔹 the WEIRD AI Framework: WEIRD is a term from psychology that stands for Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich, and Democratic. Most AI systems, generative models especially, are trained on corpora that overrepresent WEIRD voices and underrepresent everyone else.🔹 Practical ways women can experiment, reclaim, and band together in communities of practice.🔹 If AI is the new baseline for productivity and creativity, then the absence of women’s voices isn’t just a gap, it’s a risk of silence becoming the default.Learn more:🔗 Gender gap study: https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/item.aspx?num=66548🔗 Mo Gawdat's book Scary Smart: https://www.mogawdat.com/scary-smart🔗 Geoffrey Hinton Says AI Needs Maternal Instincts: https://www.forbes.com/sites/pialauritzen/2025/08/14/geoffrey-hinton-says-ai-needs-maternal-instincts-heres-what-it-takes/💙 Follow us on our Substack: Women Writin' 'Bout AI: https://substack.com/@womenwritinboutaiLeave us a comment or a suggestion! Support the showContact Jessica or Kimberly on LinkedIn: Jessica's LinkedIn Kimberly's LinkedIn

In this episode, we open up about something we haven’t shared publicly before: our decision to shut down Moxie, the startup we spent years building.We talk honestly about what led to that choice—the excitement of early growth, the challenges of raising money as non-technical founders, and the impossible reality of competing with free tools from tech giants like Google, OpenAI, and Microsoft.This isn’t just a story about one company. It’s about trust, expertise, failure, and the messy human side of working with generative AI in education and research. Along the way, we reflect on what we wish we’d known earlier, how burnout shaped our decisions, and what we’ve learned about ourselves through the process of letting go.What you’ll hear in this episode:Why we ultimately decided to shut down MoxieThe pressures of fundraising and pitching as non-technical foundersThe gap between hype and reality with AI in educationLessons on trust, expertise, and failure in both startups and academiaHow we’re processing life and work after MoxieIf you’ve ever wondered what it really feels like to close the doors on something you’ve poured yourself into, or you’re navigating your own questions about AI, startups, or burnout—you’ll find some resonance here.Leave us a comment or a suggestion! Support the showContact Jessica or Kimberly on LinkedIn: Jessica's LinkedIn Kimberly's LinkedIn

Today we sit down with Dr. Leslie Gruis — mathematician, NSA veteran, and author of The Privacy Pirates — to talk about the urgent importance of protecting personal information in our tech-driven world.From children’s online privacy to the rise of corporate data exploitation, Dr. Gruis shares both her insider experience from decades in national security and her practical advice for safeguarding our digital lives.📚 About our guest:First president of the NSA’s Women in Mathematics SocietyContributor to U.S. Cyber Command & National Intelligence CouncilAuthor of The Privacy Pirates: Pirates of Personal DataMentor and advocate for STEM students🔑 In this episode you’ll learn:Why privacy is essential to democracyThe risks kids face with school-issued laptops & smartphonesHow corporations collect and exploit our personal dataWhat parents and educators can do today to protect childrenThe ethical questions surrounding AI, surveillance, and data use🎙️  Show Notes & Topics we cover:Defining informational privacy in the 21st centuryChildren’s Online Privacy Protection Act (and why it’s outdated)School-issued laptops and surveillance concernsCorporate data collection, sentiment analysis, and manipulationThe asymmetric power between consumers and corporationsWhy protecting privacy is vital for democracy🔗  LinksBuy The Privacy PiratesFollow Dr. Leslie Gruis Follow Women Talking About AI:📺 YouTube📰 SubstackLeave us a comment or a suggestion! Support the showContact Jessica or Kimberly on LinkedIn: Jessica's LinkedIn Kimberly's LinkedIn

Join David Shapiro, a systems thinker and AI researcher, as he dives into Post-Labor Economics. He discusses how automation is reshaping job structures and challenges the myth that technology will always create new jobs. Explore the potential of Universal Basic Income as a safety net in a changing economy. Shapiro emphasizes the need for education that nurtures empathy and critical thinking. Plus, hear about the evolving social contract and what personal fulfillment may look like in a world where work isn’t central to identity.

Juliana Peloche, a global educator and senior AI literacy advisor with extensive teaching experience, delves into her inspiring journey into AI education, sparked by a curious student. Topics include the essential role of AI literacy in fostering critical thinking and ethics, the significant knowledge gap in basic digital skills, and misconceptions about AI's impact on productivity. Juliana advocates for embracing programmatic learning, emphasizing the need for educators to adapt while maintaining humanity amid technological advancements.

Dr. Tamara Tate, Associate Director at UC Irvine’s Digital Learning Lab, discusses her transition from a legal career to education research. She reveals how AI, particularly through her Papyrus project, is reshaping writing instruction and student engagement. Tamara emphasizes the importance of AI literacy and authentic expression over speed in writing. The conversation delves into issues of trust among students using AI and the complexities of providing effective feedback. Hear her thoughtful insights on meaningful learning in this evolving landscape.

In this episode of Women Talkin’ 'Bout AI, host Kimberly Becker sits down with Dr. Mathilde Cerioli—a cognitive neuroscientist, mom, and Chief Scientist at Everyone.AI—to unpack the complex, often messy intersections of child development, technology, and artificial intelligence.We cover:What AI can and can’t do for young mindsHow critical thinking actually develops—and why it can’t be outsourcedThe myth of "tech for tech’s sake" and why some edtech harms more than it helpsWhy your kid doesn’t need a bedtime podcast voiced by a deepfaked parentThe neuroscience behind struggle, dopamine, and why learning should be hardMisinformation, deepfakes, and why everyone needs a family safe wordThis conversation blends scientific rigor with real-world parenting chaos, offering both hope and hard truths. Whether you're raising a kindergartener or advising policymakers, this one’s for anyone who wants a future where tech serves human development, not the other way around.****If you find value in these conversations, consider supporting the podcast with a small donation—every bit helps us keep the mics on and the ideas flowing. Click the link below to donate.  https://www.buzzsprout.com/2411501/supporters/newLeave us a comment or a suggestion! Support the showContact Jessica or Kimberly on LinkedIn: Jessica's LinkedIn Kimberly's LinkedIn

What happens when a passionate educator steps away from the whiteboard and into the world of AI? In this episode, we sit down with Marissa Sadler Holder, a former classroom teacher turned consultant/entrepreneur, and the founder of Teaching with Machines. With a master’s in e-learning and recognition as a two-time recipient of SVS’s Leading Women in AI, Marissa brings a grounded, human-centered approach to AI literacy in education.We unpack her journey from teaching French to building a business, the emotional complexities of leaving the classroom, and why she believes teachers—not technologists—should be at the table when shaping the future of AI in education. From the power of small wins to the significance of that second “aha” moment, this conversation is a candid exploration of fear, hope, and the relentless pursuit of meaningful learning in an uncertain world.📝 Show Notes:Guest: Marissa Sadler Holder Founder of Teaching with Machines | Edtech Consultant | SVS Leading Women in AI (2024 & 2025)Topics We Cover:How COVID catalyzed Marissa’s shift into e-learning and AIThe founding story of Teaching with Machines: https://www.teachingwithmachines.com/What it really feels like to leave the classroom after 13 yearsHow she supports teachers at every stage of AI literacyWhy incremental change in classrooms matters more than big tech rolloutsTwo “aha” moments every educator has with generative AIThe emotional weight of entrepreneurship vs. classroom stressThe role of women’s voices in shaping AI discourseBridging the AI gap between students, teachers, and parentsHer upcoming project: Learning with Machines, focused on student + parent AI literacyWhy we should stop aiming to “master AI” and start focusing on meaningful applicationConference reflections: Why it's the people who make ASU+GSV unforgettableQuotable Moments:“The goal isn’t to master AI. It’s to stay curious, stay human, and keep learning.” “Every teacher will hit that second lightbulb moment—where you realize AI isn’t just a tool. It’s a transformation.” “What we do in professional development should mirror what we do in great teaching: make it relevant, make it engaging, and meet people where they are.”Links & Resources:Teaching with Machines (Marissa’s platform for educator-focused AI PD)Marissa on LinkedInSVS Summit: Leading Women in AIMentioned thought leader: Ethan Mollick’s SubstackLeave us a comment or a suggestion! Support the showContact Jessica or Kimberly on LinkedIn: Jessica's LinkedIn Kimberly's LinkedIn