In this episode, we are delighted to welcome Shankar Vedantam, host of the wildly popular podcast, Hidden Brain and esteemed author of the new book Useful Delusions (https://amzn.to/2PUkzlv).  Before reading Shankar’s book and interviewing him for this podcast we were, as Shankar describes himself, card-carrying rationalists. We were firmly in the camp of believing rational, scientific findings and believing that lies and deception are harmful to ourselves and to our communities. However, Shankar walks us through a compelling argument, that paradoxically, self-deception actually plays a pivotal role in our happiness and well-being. In our discussion with Shankar we cover: (6:38) Speed round questions. (11:04) The difference between self delusions being useful and being harmful. (16:23) How nations are a delusional construct. (23:00) Awareness of self-delusions and how daily gratitudes can shift our perspective of the world.  (25:56) Shankar’s personal story of delusional thinking.  (29:58) The role emotions play in our mood and delusions. (35:23) How avoidance of delusional thinking is a sign of privilege. (37:30) Why our perceptions play an important role in understanding delusions. (44:36) Shankar’s unique approach to conspiracy theories. (52:28) What music Shankar has been listening to during COVID. (52:15) Grooving Session and Bonus Track with Kurt and Tim. We really hope you find Shankar’s unique insight on how delusions are useful as compelling as we did. If you’re a regular Behavioral Grooves listener, please consider supporting us through Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves). Thank you!  © 2021 Behavioral Grooves   Books  Useful Delusions: The Power and Paradox of the Self-Deceiving Brain https://amzn.to/2PUkzlv  The Hidden Brain: How Our Unconscious Minds Elect Presidents, Control Markets, Wage Wars and Save Our Lives https://amzn.to/3e1qgWY Links Noise: A Flaw in Human Judgment by Kahneman, Sibony and Sunstein, 2021 https://amzn.to/3heyr5r  Richard Dawkins https://richarddawkins.net/  Mahabharata https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahabharata  Lake Wobegon Effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Wobegon    Other Episodes We Talk About The Myth of the “Relationship Spark” with Logan Ury (featuring a guest appearance by Christina Gravert, PhD): https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/the-myth-of-the-relationship-spark-with-logan-ury-featuring-a-guest-appearance-by-christina-gravert-phd/ Robert Cialdini, PhD: Littering, Egoism and Aretha Franklin: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/robert-cialdini-phd-littering-egoism-and-aretha-franklin/  Self Control, Belonging, and Why Your Most Dedicated Employees Are the Ones To Watch Out For with Roy Baumeister: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/self-control-belonging-and-why-your-most-dedicated-employees-are-the-ones-to-watch-out-for-with-roy-baumeister/ George Loewenstein: On a Functional Theory of Boredom: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/george-loewenstein-on-a-functional-theory-of-boredom/ Gary Latham, PhD: Goal Setting, Prompts, Priming, and Skepticism: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/gary-latham-phd-goal-setting-prompts-priming-and-skepticism/ John Bargh: Dante, Coffee and the Unconscious Mind: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/john-bargh-dante-coffee-and-the-unconscious-mind/ Linda Thunstrom: Are Thoughts and Prayers Empty Gestures to Suffering Disaster Victims? https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/linda-thunstrom-are-thoughts-and-prayers-empty-gestures-to-suffering-disaster-victims/ 

Tim Kachuriak is the founder and Chief Innovation and Optimization Officer for NextAfter (https://www.nextafter.com/), a fundraising research lab and consulting firm that works with businesses, nonprofits, and NGOs to help them grow their resource capacity. By his own admission, Tim is not a behavioral scientist, but what we love about Tim’s work is that he is using knowledge and research from the world of behavioral science and applying it to improve the efficiency of gift giving for nonprofit organizations. And not only does he use behavioral science techniques, he tests the theories in the nonprofit sector and generously publishes the findings on the NextAfter website (https://www.nextafter.com/research/).  In our conversation with Tim, he underscores the need for thinking about value proposition, a term widely used in the digital marketing world, but rarely thought of in terms of nonprofit organizations. He argues that potential donors are constantly weighing up the perceived value vs. the perceived cost of donating their money. Tim also brings up the idea of reducing friction for donors: how can the giving experience be improved to make donating money a more seamless transaction. And we couldn’t help but see the parallels with the infamous new behavioral science book NOISE coming out later this month (Noise: A Flaw in Human Judgment (https://amzn.to/3heyr5r) by Kahneman, Sibony and Sunstein, 2021). There are many reasons why we donate to nonprofits; emotional reward, belonging, anger, guilt (or as Tim positively reframes it - gratitude!). Understanding these motivations is a huge part of Tim’s work and why, as behavioral scientists, we are fascinated to understand the research he has conducted around donations.  Edit Hey groovers, just wanted to let you know that somehow, at 29:28 mins of the podcast we ended up cutting Tim’s response to the Susan G Komen question and can’t find it on the cutting room floor…sorry about that. What he answered was that it is important to look at the scale that these organizations work at and that sometimes spending 50% on marketing to raise a $100 million is more effective and can drive a larger change than only spending 10% on marketing, but only raising $10 million.  We then went in and asked about how the pandemic has impacted giving.* We hope you enjoy our discussion with Tim Kachuriak and if you are a regular Behavioral Grooves listener, perhaps you feel motivated to donate to our work by becoming a Behavioral Grooves Patreon Member (https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves). © 2021 Behavioral Grooves Topics (0:06) Introduction to our guest, Tim Kachuriak (3:50) Speed Round Questions (5:57) Why do People Give? (9:41) The Principle of Reciprocity (12:10) Effective Messaging and Value Proposition  (22:25) Reducing Friction (34:48) Music (40:27) Grooving Session (58:44) Bonus Track Links NextAfter (https://www.nextafter.com/) NextAfter Research To Grow Generosity (https://www.nextafter.com/research/) Institute for Sustainable Philanthropy (https://www.philanthropy-institute.org.uk/)  Roger Dooley: Friction and Engagement (https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/roger-dooley-friction-and-engagement/) Susan G. Komen (https://www.komen.org/) Dan Pallotta, TED - The Way We Think About Charity Is Dead Wrong (https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_pallotta_the_way_we_think_about_charity_is_dead_wrong?language=en)  John Hopkins University, Coronavirus Resource Centre (https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/)  Rotary Club (https://www.rotary.org/)  Salvation Army (https://www.salvationarmyusa.org/usn/)  Noise: A Flaw in Human Judgment (https://amzn.to/3heyr5r) by Kahneman, Sibony and Sunstein, 2021  Phish, Boardwalk Hall, Atlantic City on 10.30.2010 (https://phish.net/setlists/phish-october-30-2010-boardwalk-hall-atlantic-city-nj-usa.html)  Behavioral Grooves Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves) Musical Links Billy Joel “Scenes from An Italian Restaurant” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hxx8IWIvKg0)  Phish “Whole lotta love” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6XcIOGWUhY)  Other Episodes We Talk About Robert Cialdini, PhD: Littering, Egoism and Aretha Franklin (https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/robert-cialdini-phd-littering-egoism-and-aretha-franklin/)  Linda Thunstrom: Are Thoughts and Prayers Empty Gestures to Suffering Disaster Victims? (https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/linda-thunstrom-are-thoughts-and-prayers-empty-gestures-to-suffering-disaster-victims/)

Our guest, Jon Levy, is arguably one of the most influential behavioral scientists in the world. Over 10 years ago, Jon founded The Influencers Dinner, a secret dining experience for industry leaders ranging from Olympians, Nobel laureates, executives, to musicians. Over the course of the last decade, these dinners have developed into a wide community of influential people.  Our opening speed round with Jon did not disappoint. We learn his unique perspective on which Star Trek Captains was the best, and the surprising answer to who his dream guest was at one of his dinners.  In our discussion with Jon, he shares the secrets behind his influential approach: what motivated him to start this novel idea, how he developed it and the key steps behind the ongoing success of the community that he has curated.  Jon’s second book, “You’re Invited: The Art and Science of Cultivating Influence” https://amzn.to/2RmlUlA is released on May 11, 2021. Which follows his hugely successful first book: “The 2 AM Principle: Discover the Science of Adventure” https://amzn.to/3eS3p0m. We had the privilege of previewing his latest book for this interview and we were blown away by Jon’s unique approach to cultivating human connections through trust and community.  Of course, we discuss what music Jon has been listening to at home and we are surprised to learn what has recently sparked his musical interest. Jon has found that through his Influence Dinners, he has hosted a lot of his childhood pop idols, which he still enjoys listening to. Thanks for listening and thank you for taking a minute to join the others who have already left us a review.  © 2021 Behavioral Grooves Jon Levy's Books You're Invited: The Art and Science of Cultivating Influence https://amzn.to/2RmlUlA The 2 AM Principle: Discover the Science of Adventure https://amzn.to/3eS3p0m   Links Jon Levy https://www.jonlevytlb.com/  Peter Cullen (voice of Optimus Prime) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Cullen  James T. Kirk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_T._Kirk  Jean-Luc Picard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Luc_Picard  Neil deGrasse Tyson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_deGrasse_Tyson  Oprah https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oprah_Winfrey  Beyonce https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyonc%C3%A9  Sir Richard Branson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Branson  Stephen Hawking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Hawking  Disney https://www.disney.com/  Mark Zuckerberg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Zuckerberg  Nicholas Christakis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Christakis  James H. Fowler https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_H._Fowler  The Spread of Obesity in a Large Social Network over 32 Years  Christakis and Fowler (2007) https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmsa066082  Nike Run Club https://www.nike.com/gb/nrc-app  Bill Nye the Science Guy https://billnye.com/  Parkour https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkour  The Daily Show https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Daily_Show  The New York Times: Want to Meet Influential New Yorkers? Invite Them to Dinner https://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/10/fashion/want-to-meet-influential-new-yorkers-invite-them-to-dinner.html  SNVTA - Ventral tegmental area of the brain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventral_tegmental_area  Davos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davos  Bill Gates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gates  Angela Merkel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Merkel  TED https://www.ted.com/  My Octopus Teacher https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Octopus_Teacher  United States Navy SEAL selection and training https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_SEAL_selection_and_training  The IKEA Effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKEA_effect#:~:text=The%20IKEA%20effect%20is%20a,of%20furniture%20that%20require%20assembly Common Biases & Heuristics https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XHpBr0VFcaT8wIUpr-9zMIb79dFMgOVFRxIZRybiftI/edit?usp=sharing  Brené Brown https://brenebrown.com/about/   Adam Grant https://www.adamgrant.net/  Behavioral Grooves Patreon https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves Musical Links  Bridgerton Soundtrack https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rowHZd7-F1U&ab_channel=LoopedSongs  Vitamin String Quartet “Thank u, next” (Ariana Grande) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmljfYBkGVg  John Williams “The Imperial March from The Empire Strikes Back” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7HF4JG1pOg&list=PL2yW2adfehiV0-wSa784KIT1ZJ5_YEVjd&index=2&ab_channel=JohnWilliamsVEVO  Tribe Called Quest “Electric Relaxation“ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHRnvjCkTsw&ab_channel=TribeCalledQuestVEVO  Biggie Smalls (The Notorious B.I.G.) “Big Poppa” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phaJXp_zMYM  Maroon Five “Sugar” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09R8_2nJtjg&ab_channel=Maroon5VEVO  98 Degrees “I Do (Cherish You)” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09R8_2nJtjg&ab_channel=Maroon5VEVO  Cowboy Junkies “Sweet Jane” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa9nN3G2CSg&t=173s  The Tragically Hip “Ahead by a Century” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE2joQsWXJg  Topics (4:46) Speed Round Questions (9:03) Power vs Influence (13:00) Why do we want influence? (20:21) Jon discusses his new book (25:41) Jon became influential (32:11) How to create a community (37:03) How trust is made and how to trigger it (41:00) Music (1:13:11) Bonus Track and Groove Idea Other Episodes You’ll Enjoy Dessa: The Attention Shepherd On The Curious Act Of Being Deeply Human (Episode 208) https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/dessa-being-deeply-human/  Mapping the Influence of Corporate Cultures – Silke Brittain (Episode 12) https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/mapping-the-influence-of-corporate-cultures-silke-brittain/ Robert Cialdini, PhD: Littering, Egoism and Aretha Franklin (Episode 50) https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/robert-cialdini-phd-littering-egoism-and-aretha-franklin/

In this episode we are thrilled to be discussing our two favorite topics: human behavior and music. We learn that music, more than any other activity, can help lift our mood, during COVID. Our guests Pablo Ripollés PhD and Ernest Mas Herrero have spent years studying how the brain responds to rewards, learning and memory. Early in the pandemic, they decided to conduct research on a long list of activities that people were doing at home to manage their stress and increase the pleasure in their lives. While a number of the activities were found to help with mental health, the research overwhelmingly showed that engaging with music was the best way to lift your mood. We have a really engaging conversation with Pablo and Ernest about their research findings on wellbeing and music. They believe that because listening to music is a passive activity and is so accessible, or “fun and free” as they call it, everyone can experience pleasure from it. And it’s not just listening to music; dancing, singing or playing music are all beneficial.  We also learn that the best type of music to engage with is whatever music you really enjoy: “It will be beneficial as long as it is pleasurable.” The questionnaire Pablo and Ernest discuss in the podcast is the Barcelona Music Reward Questionnaire http://brainvitge.org/z_oldsite/bmrq.php. It will take you only a few minutes to find out about your individual sensitivity to musical reward. And you can also read Pablo and Ernest’s full research article: “Rock ’n’ Roll but not Sex or Drugs: Music is negatively correlated to depressive symptoms during the COVID-19 pandemic via reward-related mechanisms” https://psyarxiv.com/x5upn/.  Listen in to find out more from Pablo and Ernest about how music can benefit your mental wellbeing. And If you’d like to support the work we do at Behavioral Grooves bringing you interesting research insights, please consider becoming a Patreon member at https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves.  © 2021 Behavioral Grooves Topics (0:06) Introduction (5:20) Speed Round Questions (8:44) Research Insights with Pablo and Ernest (36:50) Grooving Session (50:26) Bonus Track Musical Links  Dropkick Murphys https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcIRZxNH7xcEt1fu4pfqFRg  Rumba https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrsK48Bp6T8  Catalan music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjJnF95TWN8  Zoo https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBh82sG2OKv1J6Ij43mdFiw  Depeche Mode https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCM-CWGUijAC-8idv6k6Fygw  Aretha Franklin “Think” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqYnevHibaI  Links “Rock ’n’ Roll but not Sex or Drugs: Music is negatively correlated to depressive symptoms during the COVID-19 pandemic via reward-related mechanisms” Herrero et al (2020): https://psyarxiv.com/x5upn/  “Neural correlates of specific musical anhedonia” Martínez-Molina et al (2016): https://www.pnas.org/content/113/46/E7337 Pablo Ripollés: https://as.nyu.edu/faculty/pablo-ripolles.html  Ernest Mas Herrero: https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3607-8489  Jamón ibérico https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jam%C3%B3n_ib%C3%A9rico  Lionel Messi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Messi  Michael Jordan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jordan  Roger Federer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Federer  “Goal Gradient Theory” Kivetz et al (2006): https://home.uchicago.edu/ourminsky/Goal-Gradient_Illusionary_Goal_Progress.pdf  Robert Zatorre, PhD https://www.mcgill.ca/neuro/robert-zatorre-phd Neomi Singer, PhD https://neuroscience-innovation.org/music-to-my-brain-neomi-singer  Laura Ferreri, University of Lyon https://emc.univ-lyon2.fr/laura-ferreri-785895.kjsp  Michael McPhee, NYU https://steinhardt.nyu.edu/people/michael-mcphee   Hedonia and anhedonia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anhedonia  Barcelona Music Reward Questionnaire http://brainvitge.org/z_oldsite/bmrq.php  Spotify https://www.spotify.com/us/  The Ikea Effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKEA_effect#:~:text=The%20IKEA%20effect%20is%20a,of%20furniture%20that%20require%20assembly The Singing Revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singing_Revolution  Music of the Civil Rights Movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_songs Baroque Music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApSoNBu2wt8  Agatha Christie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agatha_Christie  Other Podcast Episodes Dessa: The Attention Shepherd on the Curious Act of Being Deeply Human” https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/dessa-being-deeply-human/  The Counterintuitive Persuasion of The Catalyst with Jonah Berger https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/the-catalyst-with-jonah-berger/  Chris Matyszczyk: Listening to Music While You Work  https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/chris-matyszczyk-listening-to-music-while-you-work/ Covid-19 Crisis: Emotional Impact of WFH with Liz Fosslien https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/c-19-crisis-emotional-impact-of-wfh-with-liz-fosslien/  Jonah Berger episode: “The Counterintuitive Persuasion of The Catalyst with Jonah Berger” https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/the-catalyst-with-jonah-berger/ 

Our guest this week, Sandra Matz PhD exposes the truth behind our online presence. In our conversation, Sandra reveals that with simple analytics, the digital footprints we leave behind online (our Facebook Likes, our credit card transactions, our Google Map searches) add up to paint a very revealing picture of our personality and state of mind. Sandra Matz PhD is an associate professor at Columbia Business School. She takes a Big Data approach to studying human behaviour. Her methodologies use psychology, computer science and data collection to explore the relationships between people’s psychological characteristics and their digital footprints.  Sandra’s work has been published in top-tier journals such as Psychological Science and the American Psychologist, and has attracted worldwide media attention from outlets like the Independent, the BBC, CNBC, the Washington Post, the Chicago Tribune, and the World Economic Forum. Our discussion delves into Sandra’s experience around social media profiles, digital ethics, data privacy and our understanding of informed consent. As always we find out about our guest’s musical taste but this week we even find out what our musical preferences can reveal about our personality and social identities.  We hope you enjoy our discussion with Sandra Matz PhD, and if you do, please leave us a quick review or join our Patreon team at https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves.   Topics 3:04 Welcome to Sandra Matz PhD and speed round questions 4:52 Discussion about Sandra Matz’s Research 52:32 Grooving Session 1:10:37 Bonus Track with Kurt   Links Sandra Matz https://www8.gsb.columbia.edu/cbs-directory/detail/sm4409  Cambridge Analytica https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Analytica Cass Sunstein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cass_Sunstein  GDPR https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation  Kate Crawford, NYU https://ainowinstitute.org/about.html  Helen Nissenbaum, Cornell https://nissenbaum.tech.cornell.edu/  Tory Higgins, Shared Reality: What Makes Us Strong and Tears Us Apart https://amzn.to/3aywWdW  SoundCloud https://soundcloud.com/  Brene Brown https://brenebrown.com/  Steve Bannon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Bannon  Patreon https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves Behavioral Grooves @behavioralgroov https://twitter.com/behavioralgroov  Kurt @motivationguru https://twitter.com/motivationguru  Tim @THoulihan https://twitter.com/THoulihan  Mary @BeSciMary https://twitter.com/BeSciMary   Musical Links Taylor Swift https://www.youtube.com/user/taylorswift  Justin Bieber https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIwFjwMjI0y7PDBVEO9-bkQ  Bob Dylan https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnRI0ay61tY-fKYzzB3fCnw  Britney Spears https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-u5WLJ9Yk4  Coldplay https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDPM_n1atn2ijUwHd0NNRQw  ACDC https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCB0JSO6d5ysH2Mmqz5I9rIw  Lady Gaga https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNL1ZadSjHpjm4q9j2sVtOA   

Research is showing that there are four broad groups of people who are the most vaccine hesitant: African Americans Latinos Women between the ages of 20 and 36 Rural Americans and Republicans Many of us have a family or friend who feels hesitant about the vaccination. In this episode, Kurt and Tim address how you can have a positive conversation with them, using proven behavioral science techniques.  Compassionate curiosity Listen with compassion Understanding motivations Be genuine with curiosity Leverage the right messenger Framing what you’re going to share Think about their perspective Find an authority figure who they respect Trumpcine The Message Change the social norm Being able to take our masks off “Take a shot, take off your mask” Personalise the message Links Morgan Freeman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan_Freeman  Kwame Christian https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/kwame-christian-on-compassionate-curiosity-social-justice-conversations-and-cinnamon-toast-crunch/  Steve Martin & Joe Marks: BG episode https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/steve-martin-and-joe-marks-the-messenger-is-the-message/  Robb Willer, Stanford University https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robb_Willer  Donald Trump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump  Ivanka Trump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanka_Trump  Ted Cruz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Cruz  Trumpcine https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/04/12/trump-calls-covid-19-vaccine-trumpcine-mocks-fauci-again/  Frank Luntz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Luntz  Robert Cialdini https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/robert-cialdini-phd-littering-egoism-and-aretha-franklin/  The Petrified Forrest https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/the-shaping-us/201909/the-petrified-wood-principle  Katy Milkman https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/katy-milkman-phd-using-behavior-change-for-good/  Surfacing norms to increase vaccine acceptance https://psyarxiv.com/srv6t/ Patreon https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves    © 2021 Behavioral Grooves

Dr. Melanie Green is a professor at the University of Buffalo. She joined us on the podcast to explain how the power of a compelling narrative, including the effects of fictional stories, can be used to change beliefs and attitudes. Her theory of "transportation into a narrative world" focuses on how immersive storytelling is a mechanism of narrative influence. It was an in-depth conversation that explored concepts around how stories move us, the power of narrative to affect both cognitive and emotional feelings, and how restorative narratives can be used to help heal communities after disasters. We touch on the psychological response of reactance, the appeal of conspiracy theory stories and the elements needed to create a compelling story.  We also introduce - in a slightly more proper fashion - our production and research assistant, Mary Kaliff. We are excited to introduce Mary to our listeners and hope you will welcome her with a happy greeting on social media! Finally, no episode of Behavioral Grooves would be complete without understanding our guest’s musical tastes. Melanie’s upbringing in Gainesville, Florida influenced her lifelong love of music, in particular the hometown hero,  Tom Petty. She’s also a fan of James Taylor, which delighted Tim. More recently, Melanie’s house is often filled with the sound of the Hamilton soundtrack, thanks to her children’s love of the musical, which delighted Kurt. So, it was wins all around.  We hope you enjoy our conversation with Melanie and if you like it, please jump down to the bottom of your listening app and share a quick rating or a short review with us. It goes a long way in helping others decide if they should listen to Behavioral Grooves.  Topics 0:07 Introduction  1:00 Hello from Mary Kaliff 3:46 Welcome and Speed Round with Melanie Green 7:44 Reactance and empathy 16:25 What makes a good story? 22:26 Storytelling in different mediums 27:12 Parasocial Interaction 33:10 Storytelling for social good 38:50 Conspiracy Theories 43:07 Melanie’s music and playlist 47:30 Grooving Session Quotes  (14:13) If you do have a story that's not representative, the danger of it kind of having an undue influence on people's thinking and decision making is, I think, a real one, especially with something consequential, like these medical decisions.  (18:21) the way that stories can inform us and change our minds, is through this process of being immersed in them. (31:17) And so a story can be a really nice kind of way of summarizing and illustrating the guiding principles maybe that people want the organization to follow (33:37) restorative narratives tell those stories, you know, how people move from something bad to kind of come back to a better place. Social Media Tim @THoulihan Kurt @motivationguru Mary @BeSciMary Other Content To listen to more podcasts about narratives and messages why not delve into these episodes: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/steve-martin-and-joe-marks-the-messenger-is-the-message/ https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/john-sweeney-everything-is-a-story/  © 2021 Behavioral Grooves Links Melanie Green:  https://www.buffalo.edu/cas/communication/faculty/green.html  The Game of Thrones: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_of_Thrones  Story telling Mirrors in the Brain: https://www.michaelharvey.org/new-blog/2019/12/29/storytelling-mirrors-in-the-brain  Victoria Shaffer, PhD: https://psychology.missouri.edu/people/shaffer  The Bible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible  The Koran:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran  The Bhagavad Ghita: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagavad_Gita  Pamela Rutledge: https://www.pamelarutledge.com/  Guy Schoenecker: https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2016/12/07/life-story-guy-schoenecker/  BI WORLDWIDE: https://www.biworldwide.com/careers/  Common Biases & Heuristics: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XHpBr0VFcaT8wIUpr-9zMIb79dFMgOVFRxIZRybiftI/edit?usp=sharing   Jon Levy: https://www.jonlevytlb.com/  Mirror Neurons: Why good stories provoke empathy and connection (Kyle Pearce) https://www.diygenius.com/mirror-neurons/  Musical Links Bruce Springsteen “Fire”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5PoIrcyd34  “Hamilton” soundtrack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPSWZUExZ8M  James Taylor “Never Die Young”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbGrD4hxoBI  Traveling Wilburys “End of the Line”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMVjToYOjbM  Tom Petty “Don’t Fade on Me”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKUBlwVgVYc 

Leidy Klotz is the Copenhaver Associate Professor of Architecture, Civil and Environmental Engineering at the University of Virginia. His research fills in underexplored overlaps between engineering and behavioral science, in pursuit of more sustainable environmental systems. He has published over 70 peer-reviewed articles in venues that include top academic journals in built environment engineering, engineering education, and design, as well as imprints of both Science and Nature. We explored the rarity of subtraction from our lives and the fact that we tend to add things much more than we remove things. Granted, we’ve been builders of things since the dawn of civilization, but when is enough, enough? Leidy suggested we begin any initiative by subtracting before we start adding.   We traced the concept from Lao Tzu through DaVinci through Kurt Lewin and right up into today’s literature with Marie Kondo and Tim Ferriss. But Leidy’s thoughts are truly fresh because he is adding to this historical narrative with scientific data. He offered us fresh ways to think about this uphill battle with our natural desires.  We also discussed Leidy’s view of the Planetary Tipping Point: where our very fixed-resource planet gets maxed out by humans with an unlimited desire for more. And we were pleased to talk about Kurt Lewin and his force-field analysis and, as you might expect, we enthusiastically discussed Bruce Springsteen as a prolific and gifted writer.  We hope you enjoy our discussion with Leidy Klotz, and if you do, please leave us a quick review or join our Patreon team at https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves.    Links Leidy Klotz, PhD: https://engineering.virginia.edu/faculty/leidy-klotz Lego https://www.lego.com/en-us  Harry Potter Lego Set - Hogwarts https://www.lego.com/en-us/search?q=harry%20potter%20hogwarts  Wildlife Bingo https://www.nature-watch.com/wildlife-bingo-game-p-176.html  Michael Jordan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jordan  Bruce Springsteen https://brucespringsteen.net/  Mayan City of Coba https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coba  Marie Kondo https://konmari.com/  Tim Ferris https://tim.blog/  Da Vinci https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_Vinci  Lao Tzu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laozi  Bowerbird https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowerbird  Allison Zelkowitz https://www.linkedin.com/in/allison-zelkowitz-197431a/?originalSubdomain=lb  Chaning Jang https://www.busaracenter.org/staff-bios/chaning-8f39x  Kurt Lewin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Lewin  Kate Orff, Lexington Waterway Project https://www.scapestudio.com/people/kate-orff/  Dan Ariely “Predictably Irrational” https://danariely.com/books/predictably-irrational/  Roger Dooley “Friction” https://www.rogerdooley.com/books/friction/    Musical Links Bruce Springsteen “Darkness On The Edge Of Town” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg0ekQBmzKs  Bruce Springsteen “Born In The USA”  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPhWR4d3FJQ  Bruce Springsteen “Western Stars” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IXzAAKrsFE  Bruce Springsteen “Letter to You” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQyLEz0qy-g    Topics 3:20 Leidy’s 6-year-old son answers a speed round question 4:34 Speed round with Leidy 7:14 Leidy’s book - Subtraction 13:00 “More-ality” 24:00 Planetary tipping points 26:15 Kurt Lewin force field theory 29:28 Kate Orff Lexington Waterways Project 33:40 Subtraction checklist 37:57 Springsteen 45:24 Grooving   Interview Quotes (8:10) we're doing these mental searches for solutions, and our mind goes to additive solutions before it goes to subtractive ones.  (12:01) as people are trying to change things from how they are to how they want them to be, we systematically think of adding first and then, only subsequently or with effort or with reminders, think of subtraction (35:15) so often we kind of come to a problem and don't actually spend time defining what the what the problem is, right (9:51)  My favorite is Lao Tzu, even farther back talking about, to gain wisdom, you have to subtract something every day.

Rohit Bhargava is on a mission to help everyone in the world become a non-obvious thinker. In this episode, he talks with us about how intentionality is the key to seeing the non-obvious and how he uses The Haystack Method to gather insights from the world. He also shared how he has become a speed-understander and the benefits that go with it. In 2011, Rohit embarked on the annual task of documenting the digital trends of the year, which after a decade, culminated in his book on megatrends in 2021 #1 Wall Street Journal bestselling author of seven books including “Non-Obvious Megatrends: How to See What Others Miss and Predict the Future” https://amzn.to/3mpkJgn. Rohit discusses with us how he analyses trends, not just on the superficial level, but digging deeper into the “why” question. Our conversation with Rohit is full of compelling insights about the human condition, unique analysis of the world around us, and actionable tips on how to train yourself to observe with intention. You’ll also get a quick education in contemporary Latin music and some head-scratching about why He-Man ever became a superhero in the first place. Two of Rohit’s books are currently being republished into new editions;  The Non-Obvious Guide to Virtual Meetings and Remote Work (Non-Obvious Guides) https://amzn.to/2OoxdbB    The Non-Obvious Guide to Marketing & Branding (Without a Big Budget) (Non-Obvious Guides) https://amzn.to/3moIllg   If you’re a regular Behavioral Grooves listener, please consider supporting us through Patreon. Thank you! https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves © 2021 Behavioral Grooves Links Rohit Bhargava: https://www.rohitbhargava.com/  Isaac Asimov: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Asimov   Ali Pittampalli “Persuadable”: https://www.alpitt.com/  Henry Coutinho-Mason “The Future Normal”: https://henrycoutinho-mason.com/  Maysoon Zayid: https://maysoon.com/  Telemundo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telemundo  Dan Simons Invisible Gorilla video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGQmdoK_ZfY  Tom Cruise “Cocktail”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YbjzztYbUo  He-Man: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/He-Man  Telemachus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telemachus  Meave Leakey: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meave_Leakey  Dan Hill - Episode 151: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/dan-hill-phd-on-the-facial-coding-of-trump-hendrix-prince-gretzky-and-the-beatles/  Hedgefox: https://www.russellsage.org/sites/default/files/Vohs_intro_0.pdf  Books The Non-Obvious Guide to Virtual Meetings and Remote Work (Non-Obvious Guides): https://amzn.to/2OoxdbB   The Non-Obvious Guide to Marketing & Branding (Without a Big Budget) (Non-Obvious Guides): https://amzn.to/3moIllg  Non Obvious Megatrends: How to See What Others Miss and Predict the Future (Non-Obvious Trends Series): https://amzn.to/3mpkJgn   Musical Links Neil Peart (Rush): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Peart  Fanny Lu: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A1grimas_C%C3%A1lidas  Maná “Rayando del Sol”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY3O_Fbfjjs  Carlos Vives “Cumbiana”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baUk9YcCxBQ  Carlos Vives & Shakira “”La Bibcicleta”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UV0QGLmYys  Juaness “Es Por Ti | One World: Together” At Home: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pgvjxtHBOg Coffitivity: https://soundcloud.com/coffitivity  Topics 6:37 Trends vs Fads 11:10 Haystack Method 13:18 Trends 19:15 Brave Enough to Change Your Mind 28:00 Non Obvious Brand 30:28 Spare Time 35:30 Rohit’s Inspiration 40:45 The Yellow Balloon Light Bulb 45:04 Naming 47:14 He-Man Quotes (6:37) ...trend is something that implicates behavior, which is very topical for us. And whereas a fad is just usually a thing or a platform, but doesn't always correlate to behavior. (7:55) ...a speed understander is someone who thinks about what to pay attention to as an end is intentional about what they choose not to pay attention to. (10:55) ...if you spend enough time gathering interesting, fascinating stories, instead of obsessing about why they're interesting or fascinating in the moment, then later on, you can start to spot the patterns that you would never have otherwise seen. (16:37) ...being observant is not a skill you're born with, or not born with. Being observant is a choice. (19:45)...being persuadable requires You to rethink those things, those assumptions, those points of view that you have. And I think the only way that anyone can do that is by not letting themselves be defined by the stands that they have taken. Because the more you see a stand that you've taken, or a belief or something that you've put out in the world as core to your identity, the less likely you are to change. (20:07) ...the more you see a stand that you've taken, or a belief or something that you've put out in the world as core to your identity, the less likely you are to change  

Tim Ash is a very interesting guy. He is both an authority on evolutionary psychology and digital marketing, which puts him in pretty rarified air. He is the bestselling author of Unleash Your Primal Brain and Landing Page Optimization (with over 50,000 copies sold worldwide and translated into six languages). He has been identified by Forbes as a Top-10 Online Marketing Expert, and by Entrepreneur Magazine as an Online Marketing Influencer To Watch. Our conversation with Tim focused on his most recent book, Unleash Your Primal Brain, and addressed a question very central to behavioral science today: What is rational? This led to addressing how biases and heuristics are grounded in important evolutionary foundations. Tim likens the way we talk about biases today as glitches in the matrix when we should be acknowledging them for what they are: important evolutionary tools to help us survive our environments and thrive in our tribes. We also discussed the importance of culture and its central focus on the way humans learn to be human. A paradox we discussed is that culture is dependent on tribe members passing down the cultural (social) norms to the next generation without interruption, and yet cross-tribal collaboration is what has given us an evolutionary edge. Tim notes, that what we need to do today is to “stretch beyond our current tribes needs to go and make the effort to contact other people that are very different from us.” And the consequences of not doing that, according to Tim, “ …are going to be the ones that are going to bring down the larger society.” Fascinating stuff. We hope you’ll find this conversation with this insightful researcher and speaker as exciting as we did. And if you do like it, please give us a quick 5-star rating or a two-sentence review. And thank you for listening to Behavioral Grooves. © 2021 Behavioral Grooves   Links Tim Ash: https://timash.com/ “Primal Brain”: https://timash.com/books-and-media-mentions/ Latin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin Robert Sapolsky: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Sapolsky Aristotle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotle Hopper: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hopper_(particulate_collection_container) Carl Sagan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Sagan Neil deGrasse Tyson: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_deGrasse_Tyson Robert Cialdini: https://www.influenceatwork.com/ Robert Heinlein: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Heinlein Antonio Damasio: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Damasio Carlos Castaneda “Journey to Ixtlan”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journey_to_Ixtlan “Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_and_the_Art_of_Motorcycle_Maintenance Sabre fencing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabre_(fencing) Tai Chi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tai_chi Kung Fu: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_martial_arts Don Miguel Ruiz “The Four Agreements”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Four_Agreements Bhagavad Gita: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagavad_Gita Coleman’s Boat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGaz0xKG060   Musical Links Pat Metheny Group “Last Train Home”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goXJTv_U-PM Chet Baker “Almost Blue”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4IridL_2XU Elvis Costello “Almost Blue”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt8f1Sda8_4 Miles Davis “So What”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqNTltOGh5c Salsa “Al Monte”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2JnyCuAQMg