Behavioral Grooves Podcast

Doing, doing, doing. We can get stuck in a perpetual state of busyness to get things done. But being in a chronic “performance zone” can lead to stagnation over time. The “learning zone”, however, is when we take a step back to reflect on our experiences and look for ways to improve. That’s where a growth mindset comes in - actually believing that we can get better. “In order to engage in learning, we need to believe that we can improve, we also need to understand how to improve and we need to have a reason or reason that we care to put in the effort to improve.” ~ Eduardo Briceño, Episode 374 Eduardo Briceño is a global keynote speaker, facilitator, and author who guides many of the world’s leading companies in developing cultures of learning and high performance. His TED Talks have been viewed over 9 million times. Alongside Carol Dweck, the leading growth mindset researcher, Eduardo has founded Mindset Works, an organization dedicated to fostering lifelong learning.  On this episode of Behavioral Grooves, hosts Kurt and Tim talk to Eduardo about his new book “The Performance Paradox: Turning the Power of Mindset into Action” which is a practical guide on how to spend more of your time in the learning zone, instead of just the performance zone. Eduardo provides tips for leaders to create a culture of learning, such as framing core values, identifying habits and systems to support both performance and learning, and modeling learning behaviors visibly. To Tim’s delight, the conversation with Eduardo uses musical examples from Beyoncé and Dave Grohl to highlight the importance of practice and reflection. Overall, the discussion provides insights on overcoming barriers to a learning mindset and finding a balance between performance and growth in the workplace.   Topics  (4:09) Welcome and speed round questions. (7:16) If we focus only on performance, our performance suffers.  (10:19) How to tell if you’re in the learning zone or performance zone. (20:14) How can leaders create a learning culture in the workplace? (24:04) The performance zone isn’t necessarily a bad place to be. (25:44) What can Beyoncé teach us about the learning zone? (27:07) How can we get better at reflecting on our own performance? (31:02) Overcoming resistance to learning at work. (33:49) What we can learn from Dave Grohl’s pandemic drum battle. (38:07) Be deliberate about improvement, not just working harder. (41:47) What musical artists would  Eduardo Briceño take to a desert island? (43:38) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on the learning zone.   © 2023 Behavioral Grooves   Links  Eduardo Briceño’s book, “The Performance Paradox: Turning the Power of Mindset into Action”: https://amzn.to/487Ikd8  Eduardo Briceño: https://briceno.com/  Carol Dweck, Mindset: The New Psychology of Success: https://amzn.to/468cVpg  Anders Ericsson, “The Making of an Expert”: https://hbr.org/2007/07/the-making-of-an-expert  Gordon McKenzie's “Orbiting the Giant Hairball: A Corporate Fool's Guide to Surviving with Grace’: https://amzn.to/44VMi5I  Satya Nadella's efforts to shift Microsoft's culture to focus more on learning when he became CEO: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/books/features/how-microsoft-ceo-satya-nadella-transformed-one-of-the-worlds-great-businesses/articleshow/94221616.cms  Dave Grohl's vs Nandi Bushell drum battle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZBQW2gE0Ew  Introduction to Experiential Learning, John Dewey: https://learning.northeastern.edu/introduction-to-experiential-learning/  Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves  Musical Links  The Beatles “Here, There and Everywhere”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FusIKjztap8  Brian Eno “Garden of Stars”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlJDUcdUz8c

Volunteering improves psychological well-being. Team Rubicon has researched this positive effect, not just on the communities it serves, but also on the well-being of its 170,000 volunteers. The organization applies military expertise and speed to provide fast response and social support to those who have suffered a disaster. We learn from David Burke and Patti Norberg about the many benefits they have found with volunteering.   David Burke is the Chief Program Officer at Team Rubicon, an organization that was founded by US armed forces veterans in 2010 with the purpose of voluntarily joining together to work on missions in the aid of regular citizens who are suffering because of natural disasters. Patti Norberg PhD is a Professor of Marketing at Quinnipiac University in Connecticut, and also a good friend of Tim Houlihan.   Team Rubicon is a veteran led humanitarian organization that serves people before, during and after disasters and crises. It’s a movement of thousands of people that work domestically and internationally from mitigating the effects of fires, floods and natural disasters. They are instrumental in missions to rebuild people's homes, surge medical capacity and provide clean water.    From the offset, the purpose of Team Rubicon was not just to help disaster survivors, but also to support veterans' well-being after leaving the military. And Team Rubicon goes one step further by actually researching the effects on well-being and mental health. Kurt and Tim discuss the findings from this research and how it is shaping the ongoing work of Team Rubicon.   Topics  (4:37) Welcome and speed round questions. (6:56) What is Team Rubicon? (8:53) How does a military background help Team Rubicon volunteers? (11:01) What makes Team Rubicon different from other volunteer organizations? (18:00) How Team Rubicon takes care of the mental health of its volunteers. (21:33) The social connection that comes from volunteering. (28:36) How volunteering helps make you feel significant. (31:47) The next studies on psychological well-being with Team Rubicon. (35:19) What’s next for Team Rubicon? (39:31) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on volunteering.   © 2023 Behavioral Grooves   Links  Team Rubicon: https://teamrubiconusa.org/  “Our Epidemic of Loneliness and Isolation” by Dr Vivek Murthy, U.S. Surgeon General: https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/surgeon-general-social-connection-advisory.pdf  Carol Ryff’s, Psychological Well-Being Scales: https://ppc.sas.upenn.edu/resources/questionnaires-researchers/psychological-well-being-scales#:~:text=WHAT%20THE%20QUESTIONNAIRE%20MEASURES,in%20life%2C%20self%2Dacceptance.  Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves 

Arie Kruglanski, Distinguished Professor of Psychology at the University of Maryland, discusses the universal drive for significance and its impact on motivation, cognition, and behavior. He explores the cognitive representation of goals, the interconnectedness of intrinsic and extrinsic motivation, and his research on radicalization. The podcast also touches on the significance of behavior, the importance of rhythm in music, and the challenges of creating a sense of purpose.

Sarah Nicholl discusses how to foster a learning culture in organizations using leadership, AI, context, and habit formation. Topics include the importance of creating an environment that supports desired habits, the role of leaders in modeling continuous learning, strategies for fostering a culture of learning, writing a book on organizational habits, favorite music artists, challenges in implementing a focus on learning, and the significance of lifelong learning.

Lionel Page, author of Optimally Irrational, discusses the benefits of biases in decision-making. Topics include the hedonic treadmill, loss aversion, anticipated utility, and the impact of relationships on decision-making.

How can we make better choices today to benefit our future selves? Hal Hershfield outlines strategies like visualizing your future self, writing letters, making commitments, and recognizing that your preferences will change over time. Hal is a Professor of Marketing, Behavioral Decision Making, and Psychology at UCLA’s Anderson School of Management and holds the UCLA Anderson Board of Advisors Term Chair in Management. His research, which sits at the intersection of psychology and economics, examines the ways we can improve our long-term decisions. He joins us on this episode to discuss his new book, "Your Future Self: How to Make Tomorrow Better Today". It was so tempting to make this conversation with Hal really philosophical. Is our future self the same person as today, or more like a stranger? Do memories make us who we are? How can we bridge the existential gap between our future self and current self? But listeners will be glad to know that Kurt and Tim also delve into the practical aspects of Hal’s research, touching on how we can help ourselves plan for the future. The biggest take away though is that Hal emphasizes the need to make sacrifices feel psychologically easier today in order to benefit our future selves. He outlines three "time travel mistakes" we frequently make: missing our flight represents getting stuck in the present, poor trip planning represents thinking about the future but not deeply, and packing the wrong clothes represents unfairly projecting our present emotions onto our future selves. Want your future self to still be able to listen to Behavioral Grooves Podcasts? Invest in the show’s future by making a small donation on Patreon so we can keep bringing you insightful conversations like this one. Thank you to all our listeners to help make the show!   Topics  (2:54) Welcome and speed round questions. (7:14) Is our future self actually the same person? (11:18) Do memories make us who we are? (15:20) Common time travel mistakes. (22:36) Why you should write a letter to your future self. (27:51) What do you need to do today to make tomorrow better? (34:49) Does looking back on your regrets help you look forward. (38:42) Hal’s future musical tastes. (44:10) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on our future selves.   © 2023 Behavioral Grooves   Links  Hal Hershfield’s book “Your Future Self: How to Make Tomorrow Better Today”: https://amzn.to/3E2acSh  Wilson, T. D., & Gilbert, D. T. (2003) “Affective Forecasting”: https://dtg.sites.fas.harvard.edu/Wilson%20&%20Gilbert%20%28Advances%29.pdf  John Locke: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Locke  Ship of Theseus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus Strohminger N, Nichols S. (2014) “The essential moral self”: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24503450/  Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves    Musical Links  The National “Sea Of Love”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIWmRbHDhGw  Guster “Satellite”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAkvb2Rhces  Cat Stevens “Father & Son”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6zaCV4niKk  The Beatles “Help”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q_ZzBGPdqE  Belle and Sebastian “I want the world to stop”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjW3tZhdnyw

The "cult of never enough" encourages the belief that more money, possessions and achievements will make us happy. But Manisha Thakor has learnt through personal experience that emotional wealth is more important than financial wealth. Listen to learn how to redefine your success.    Manisha Thakor is the author of the book Money Zen: Escape the Cult of Never Enough and Reclaim Your Life. In this episode of Behavioral Grooves, she discusses with Kurt and Tim how she chased the American dream of financial success for 30 years before realizing it had become a nightmare. She became a workaholic and lost sight of what truly brings happiness.    Manisha talks about how the "cult of never enough" encourages the belief that more money, possessions and achievements will make us happy. However, she realized that emotional wealth is more important than financial wealth. She discusses the importance of financial health over wealth, which includes having enough to meet your needs without stress.   How does society measure success in terms of money, power and productivity rather than by character and contribution? Manisha talks about the Buddhist concept of the "hungry ghost" which represents our insatiable desires. She argues that the answer is often "less" - shedding commitments, possessions and being still in nature.    Listen to find out how to redefine success beyond financial wealth and move towards a balance of financial health and emotional wealth.   If you’d like to support the work of Behavioral Grooves, you can become a Behavioral Grooves Patreon member.   Topics  (3:45) Welcome and speed round questions. (5:54) What is a busy badge? (8:57) The social comparison aspect of wealth. (13:00) The rise of the Blackberry culture. (20:34) What you do is who you are? (24:13) Chasing after the American Dream. (28:46) A classic second generation immigrant story. (31:08) Emotional wealth and financial health. (38:42) What is the Hungry Ghost? (42:58) The music Manisha would take to a desert island. (46:29) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on redefining success.    © 2023 Behavioral Grooves   Links Manisha Thakor’s book, MoneyZen: The Secret to Finding Your "Enough": https://amzn.to/3JtuuXV  Episode 102, Cristina Bicchieri: Social Norms are Bundles of Expectations: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/cristina-bicchieri-social-norms-are-bundles-of-expectations/  Dr Malissa Clark – University of Georgia: https://psychology.uga.edu/directory/people/malissa-clark  Matthew A. Killingsworth, Daniel Kahneman and Barbara Mellers (2022) “Income and emotional well-being: A conflict resolved”: https://www.pnas.org/doi/epdf/10.1073/pnas.2208661120  Episode 215, Secrets of Subtraction: Donut Holes, Lego and Bruce Springsteen with Leidy Klotz: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/subtraction-with-leidy-klotz/  Schulte Brigid, “Why being too busy makes us feel so good,” Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-being-too-busy-makes-us-feel-so-good/2014/03/14/c098f6c8-9e81-11e3-a050-dc3322a94fa7_story.html  DeGreeff, B., Burnett, A., & Cooley, D. (2009). “Communicating authenticity or inauthenticity in a fast-paced world,” Journal of Happiness Studies: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/225649342_Communicating_and_Philosophizing_About_Authenticity_or_Inauthenticity_in_a_Fast-Paced_World  The Hungry Ghost: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungry_ghost  MoneyZen quiz online: https://quiz.tryinteract.com/#/646d1000fec8ca0014804a9e  Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves     Musical Links  Vivaldi “Four Seasons”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRxofEmo3HA  Lionel Hampton “Flying Home”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_rTICMVXQQ  

The world of applied behavioral science has never been better. So how do you get your foot in the door to have a career in the field? You may be surprised to learn that it doesn’t have to involve getting a PhD. Merle van den Akker discusses her career journey from academia into the corporate world, and what we can learn from it. Merle van den Akker grew up in the Netherlands and studied in the UK before moving to Australia to start her current job at the Commonwealth Bank. Though she got a lot out of her PhD studies, she realized the academic system was not a good long-term fit for her. While in her PhD, Merle started the blog "Money on the Mind" which has allowed her the opportunity to interview nearly 200 leaders in the field of behavioral science and finance.  Having seen the world of behavioral science through the academic lens and now through the corporate lens, Kurt and Tim chat with Merle about how important a PhD is in the field (hint, it’s not!) But Merle gives her advice for all rising behavioral scientists and the many ways to incorporate behavioral insights into all fields of work. For those with behavioral science skills and knowledge, application can be used across many functional areas of an organization from marketing to HR to product development. We also delve into Merle’s current work in finance. Financial solutions have a reputation of not being very human-centric and are difficult for people to navigate. Applying behavioral science and human-centered design can help transform these systems from within and take account of the cultural factors that influence our finances. Please consider our work at Behavioral Grooves Podcast but donating a small amount on our Patreon site. We appreciate your help.   Topics  (3:49) Welcome and speed round questions. (5:06) Do you need a PhD to work in Behavioral Science? (9:10) The real reason Merle pursued a PhD. (16:07) The taboo around talking about money.  (19:24) Always leave your credit card at home. (24:13) The journey from academia into industry work. (28:26) Advice for people who are in PhD programs. (31:41) Money on the Mind. (40:54) What music does Merle listen to? (45:17) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on applied behavioral science.   © 2023 Behavioral Grooves   Links  CBA Bank: https://www.commbank.com.au/  Money on the Mind: https://www.moneyonthemind.org/about Merle Van Den Akker’s book, “The Ultimate Guide To Doing a PhD”: https://amzn.to/3NZa1f2  Annamaria Lusardi: https://www.annamarialusardi.com/  Elif Incekara-Hafalir and George Lowenstein (2009), “The Impact of Credit Cards on Spending: A Field Experiment”: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1378502  Keith Wilcox, Lauren G. Block and Eric M. Eisenstein (2011) “Leave Home Without It? The Effects of Credit Card Debt and Available Credit on Spending”: https://www0.gsb.columbia.edu/mygsb/faculty/research/pubfiles/5688/wilcox_leave_home.pdf  Matthew D. Hilchey, Matthew Osborne and Dilip Soman (2021) “Does the visual salience of credit card features affect choice?”: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/behavioural-public-policy/article/abs/does-the-visual-salience-of-credit-card-features-affect-choice/BBD44889AEE0C6070F994FECFFCAB71F  Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves    Musical Links  Flume “Go”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wypxk5H8kmE

What exactly is confidence? Peter Atwater describes it as the feelings of certainty and control that we have about our future self. He explains The Confidence Map framework and how our horizon preference and vulnerability first mindset change, based on our level of confidence.   Peter Atwater is an adjunct professor of economics at Williams and Mary University, and the President of financial insights, a consulting firm that advises global policymakers on how social mood affects decision making, the economy and the markets. He is known for coining the “K-shaped recovery” which is an economic term used by political and economic leaders. Most recently, he has examined the hidden role of confidence in the choices we make, in his new book “The Confidence Map: Charting a Path from Chaos to Clarity”.     Confidence is inherently forward-looking and involves imagining the future, which is inherently uncertain. To illustrate this, Peter introduces us to the Confidence Map, a two-by-two grid with certainty on the x-axis and control on the y-axis. The upper right quadrant represents high confidence where there is both high certainty and control. This is the "comfort zone." The lower left quadrant represents low confidence due to low certainty and control. This is the "stress center."   The other two quadrants represent situations where there is only one of the two factors needed for confidence. The "passenger seat" quadrant has uncertainty but no control, like being a passenger in a car. The "launchpad" quadrant has control but no certainty, like pulling the lever on a slot machine.   Overconfidence and under confidence can both be issues. Organizations often ignore the vulnerability people feel during a crisis, focusing only on fixing the problem, as Boeing did during the 737 Max disasters.   Listen to Tim and Kurt’s discussion with Peter and the following Grooving Session to learn how confidence can be both an input and output of decision-making and about the complex interplay between feelings, stories and actions.   We hope you enjoy listening to our discussion with Peter and if you would like to support the work of Behavioral Grooves, we would love you to join our Behavioral Grooves Patreon membership.   Topics  (2:15) Welcome and speed round questions. (4:44) What is confidence? (7:50) The confidence quadrant. (12:55) Can you have too much confidence and can it be false? (15:49) How Behavioral Economics influences our financial decision making. (18:42) Why groups can overestimate outcomes. (20:42) Confidence is both an input and an output. (23:39) Horizon preference and confidence. (27:29) What is a vulnerability first mindset? (29:33) How Boeing focused on the wrong issue with the 737 Max disasters. (32:19) What music would Peter take to a desert island? (34:44) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on confidence.   © 2023 Behavioral Grooves   Links  Peter Atwater: https://peteratwater.com/  Peter Atwater’s book: The Confidence Map: Charting a Path from Chaos to Clarity: https://amzn.to/3NB2gM3 Daniel Kahneman and Amos Tversky (1974) Judgment Under Uncertainty: Heuristics and Biases, Science: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.185.4157.1124  Episode 31, Leaving the Matrix: Annie Duke and Insights into how you can improve your thinking! https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/leaving-the-matrix-annie-duke-and-insights-into-how-you-can-improve-your-thinking/ Boeing 737 Max grounding: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX_groundings  Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves    Musical Links  Steve Sondheim “Send in the Clowns”:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBuDSsc9Pak George Winston “Autumn”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKmqyQUDehs

Renowned psychologists Daniel Simons and Christopher Chabris discuss why people fall for fraud and how to protect against deception. They explore the illusory truth effect, scientific fraud, and the importance of being skeptical. The episode also touches on enhancing scientific rigor, research transparency, and the impact of scams on trust and belief systems.