The Eric Ries Show

Luis von Ahn, CEO and co-founder of Duolingo, shares insights on building a $17 billion language learning platform without sacrificing mission for profit. He recounts how an intern birthed the viral green owl mascot and discusses the app's unique revenue model, where only 10% of users contribute to 30% of the revenue. Emphasizing long-term goals over immediate gains, he explores Duolingo's innovative company culture, the importance of experimentation for user retention, and how gamification transformed the learning experience.

In this episode of The Eric Ries Show, I sit down with Craig Newmark, the founder of Craigslist—one of the internet’s most influential platforms. Despite its massive impact, Craigslist has remained intentionally minimalist, resisting the hyper-monetization strategies common in tech. Craig attributes his success to being in the right place at the right time, but his story reveals a deeper truth: a steadfast commitment to his values. We discuss how his moral compass shaped Craigslist, his approach to business sustainability, and his perspective on ethical entrepreneurship. In this episode, we cover: • The origins of Craigslist as a simple email newsletter • Why Craig resisted aggressive monetization and focused on community impact • The market research behind Craigslist’s minimal fees • How Craigslist maintained its mission even after Craig stepped back from leadership • Craig’s thoughts on AI, cybersecurity, and the future of journalism • How Craig’s strong relationship with customers kept him aligned with his values • Craig’s philanthropic work • Craig’s advice for new founders • And more! — Brought to you by: Vanta – Automate compliance, manage risk, and prove trust—continuously. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Get $1,000 off⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. • Gusto – Gusto is an easy payroll and benefits software built for small businesses. ⁠Get 3 months free⁠. Runway – The finance platform you don’t hate. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Learn more⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. — Where to find Craig Newmark: • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/craignewmark/ • X: https://x.com/craignewmark — Where to find Eric: • Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericries.carrd.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  • Podcast: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  • YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  — In This Episode We Cover: (00:00) Intro (03:06) The origins of Craigslist  (12:20) Why Craig used email in the beginning (14:03) Lessons from Sunday school that shaped Craig’s moral compass  (15:34) How Craigslist promoted community  (17:42) Craig’s resistance to the allure of maximum monetization (19:44) Why Craigslist became a private business, rather than a non-profit  (24:15) How monetization works at Craigslist  (27:11) Why Craigslist doesn’t need to drive engagement the way social media sites do (30:54) The size and scale of Craigslist (31:47) Current threats in cybersecurity  (33:44) How Craig became interested in cybersecurity  (35:34) How Craigslist maintained mission alignment after Craig left management  (40:54) Craig’s perspective on contentment and why he’s remained fulfilled (42:25) Advice for aspiring world-changers (47:56) Craig’s thoughts on AI  (51:08) Craig’s philanthropic work with journalism  (53:24) Problems in journalism today (54:37) Craig’s involvement with Donors Choose (57:14) Craig’s pigeon rescue work (58:58) Advice for new founders  (1:01:02) The importance of staying close to the customer (1:05:03) The case for avoiding exploitation  (1:07:16) Lightning round — You can find the transcript and references at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — Production and marketing by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://penname.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Eric may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Join Amir Nathoo, Co-founder and CEO of Outschool, as he shares his journey from a self-directed learner to shaping an online education platform that prioritizes children's interests. He discusses the vital role of AI in education and the importance of human interaction. Amir emphasizes how businesses can champion social good while maximizing profit. He reveals lessons from the homeschool movement and critiques traditional investors' impact on educational disruption. This conversation is a call for innovative, mission-driven approaches in the evolving landscape of learning.

Emil Eifrem, Co-founder and CEO of Neo4j, discusses the fascinating journey of his open-source graph database company that has gained significant traction among Fortune 100 companies. He delves into the impact of transparency and trust in building business relationships. Emil also shares insights on navigating the U.S. versus Swedish entrepreneurial landscapes, the challenges of scaling a tech company, and the pivotal decision to realign values regarding military contracts. Additionally, he explains the revolutionary role of AI in data organization and the importance of ethical leadership in tech.

In this episode of The Eric Ries Show, I’m joined by Iman Abuzeid, the co-founder and CEO of Incredible Health, a platform transforming how healthcare systems hire nurses. After earning an MD, Iman pivoted to business and technology. She spent some time working in New York before enrolling at The Wharton School, where she earned her MBA. After graduating, she moved to Silicon Valley and worked as a product manager at AliveCor, where she met her future co-founder. Together, they launched Incredible Health, a company now valued at $1.65 billion. In our conversation today, we talk about the following topics:  • Why Iman chose a different way to apply her medical school training  • The unique insights gained from NFX’s accelerator program  • Incredible Health’s purpose and its downstream effects on quality of care • The evolution of Incredible Health’s MVP • The focus on profitability from day one • How to commit to your values  • The importance of vetting investors  • How Incredible Health has implemented AI • How Amazon’s single-threaded model inspires the way Incredible Health prioritizes • And more!  — Brought to you by: Vanta – Automate compliance, manage risk, and prove trust—continuously. ⁠⁠⁠Get $1,000 off⁠⁠⁠. Runway – The finance platform you don’t hate. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Learn more⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. — Where to find Iman Abuzeid:  • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/imanabuzeid/• X: https://x.com/imanabuzeid Where to find Eric: • Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericries.carrd.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  • Podcast: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  • YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  — In This Episode We Cover: (00:00) Intro (01:52) An overview of Incredible Health (02:48) Why Iman started Incredible Health (05:22) Why Iman went to medical school but decided not to practice clinical medicine (06:42) How Iman got into software  (08:01) Iman’s background and why she is drawn to entrepreneurship (09:19) Why Roman and Iman left AliveCor to start their own company (11:00) How the partners at NFX helped Roman and Iman transform their original vision (15:55) James Joaquin's vision of "world positive" and how Incredible Health embodies it (18:15) Balancing the lofty mission of quality care with financial goals (20:20) The reasons for labor shortages in the healthcare industry (22:20) The tools Incredible Health has to help nurses manage their careers (23:18) What the MVP of Incredible Health looked like  (26:00) Some statistics around the current size of Incredible Health (26:43) The values that Iman leaned into to overcome many difficult obstacles  (29:22) How Iman has created so much value with a small team  (31:49) Early decisions made that led to high impact and high growth  (33:34) The world positive term sheet and how Incredible Health clarified its values (36:51) The three ways Incredible Health implements values  (38:30) Eric’s culture bank and leader’s guide  (39:50) Anecdotes from Incredible Health that illustrate customer obsession, speed, and  (43:41) How the pandemic impacted Incredible Health (46:25) How Incredible Health upholds values and ensures accountability (49:00) Protecting the culture from outside sources (52:38) The future of product strategy and growth strategy at Incredible Health (55:21) Learnings from implementing AI (57:45) Building and retaining trust on both sides of the marketplace (1:02:23) The importance of neutrality with all employers  (1:04:25) Prioritization and community standards  (1:08:15) The company as a whole vs. individual contribution  (1:11:24) Lightning round  You can find the transcript and references at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — Production and marketing by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://penname.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Eric may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Siqi Chen, a seasoned entrepreneur and CEO/CFO of Runway, shares his journey from creating viral social games like Mafia Wars to revolutionizing financial modeling. He talks about the importance of crafting clear company values and building trust through authentic communication. Siqi also critiques Zynga's strategy and highlights the significance of compliance in startups. Expect fresh insights on balancing work-life and practical advice for technical founders aiming to thrive in today's competitive landscape.

Rodney Brooks, a pioneering robotics expert and founder of iRobot, shares his journey in revolutionizing home tech with the Roomba. He discusses the delicate balance between ambition and risk, emphasizing the role of luck in success. Brooks also delves into bootstrapping startups versus seeking funding and the importance of building robots that cooperate with humans. He offers insight into predicting technological trends and provides valuable advice to today’s innovators, underscoring the need for trust and user-friendly designs in robotics.

The story of the digital content-sharing platform Gumroad challenges every aspect of the received wisdom about building successful companies. After it almost went under, founder and CEO Sahil Lavingia decided to pare down to the essentials rather than walk away. Then he took his characteristic counter-intuitiveness further and left Silicon Valley for Provo, Utah. Through it all, he never lost sight of what he was trying to do and his joy in building products. Gumroad is now thriving, with $175 million in volume last year, all thanks to Lavingia’s willingness to take a different path to success. Among the many things he’s learned along the way are the value of getting a fresh perspective and the virtue of patience – even when it’s unexciting. Commitment is often overlooked in heady times, but as he told me, “A lot of people are so concerned about catching the next train because it's the last one. They think it's over. But there are many more trains – just make sure you're at the train station. That's the important thing.” He had a lot to say about this, as well as Gumroad’s unique equity and dividend model, which it’s now sharing with other companies.   Other topics we touched on include: His long history of taking unconventional paths How he broke into the startup ecosystem Why building more than one product at a time is better than building a single perfect product How to get into the wild world of AI startups Making difficult business decisions for survival Appreciating the opportunity to continue doing what you love The power of equity and incentivizing for the future And so much more — Brought to you by: Vanta – Automate compliance, manage risk, and prove trust—continuously. Get $1,000 off. Runway – The finance platform you don’t hate. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Learn more⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. — Where to find Sahil Lavingia: • Sahil’s site: https://sahillavingia.com/  • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sahillavingia  • Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/shl.bsky.social  • X: https://x.com/shl • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shlpaints/?hl=en Where to find Eric: • Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericries.carrd.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  • Podcast: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  • YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  — In This Episode We Cover: (03:15) Singapore and America as the ultimate high-growth startups (04:50) How Sahil first encountered entrepreneurship as a teen graphic designer (07:15) The new meaning of “knowledge work”  (11:10) Sahil’s impressions of American possibility after growing up in Singapore and returning (16:33) Sahil’s history of deviating from the expected path (19:27) Gumroad’s path from a failed funding round in 2015 to profitability in 2023 (24:17) How Sahil broke into the startup ecosystem and his first iPhone app  (27:41) Sahil’s advice for people looking to break into the new rising tide of AI (30:38) On not putting all your eggs in one product basket (32:59) How and why he left Pinterest (34:48) Surfing and treading water as business cycles (41:36) Overnight successes that are really a long time in the making (45:59) How Sahil started Gumroad (49:19) Reconciling getting fired with successfully raising money for a new company (54:26) The failure to build a billion-dollar company (1:03:42) How to prioritize survival (1:06:33) The pivotal decision to leave San Francisco for Provo, Utah (1:08:11) The current state of Gumroad  (1:11:22) How Gumroad is structured to solve some of the classic business problems: equity, ownership, dividends (1:13:53) Incentivizing for the long-term (1:22:12) How Gumroad is helping other companies copy their model  (1:25:16) Lightning round You can find the transcript and references at ⁠⁠⁠https://www.ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠ — Production and marketing by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://penname.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Eric may be an investor in the companies discussed.

In a dynamic conversation, Jonathan Ross, Founder and CEO of Groq—a semiconductor startup valued at $2.8 billion—shares his journey from Google engineer to entrepreneur. He discusses the risks and near-death experiences that shaped Groq, emphasizing its mission to democratize low-cost generative AI computation. Topics include the importance of corporate culture in driving innovation, the challenge of competing with giants like Nvidia, and the need for long-term vision and empathy in tech leadership. Ross’s insights illuminate the transformative potential of AI and the true nature of disruption.

Wendy Gonzalez is the CEO of Sama, an ethical AI company that provides training and jobs with equitable pay and benefits to those who face the greatest barriers to stable employment. Among the companies it provides AI development data to are Microsoft, Ford, Walmart, Google, and many others. But before its current incarnation, Sama was a very different organization. It began as a non-profit, the brainchild and lifelong passion of its founder, Leila Janah, who sadly passed away in 2020. Her vision was to provide under-served communities in sub-Saharan Africa with opportunities for what she called “dignified work.” She believed this was the fastest and most sustainable way for people to not only gain their financial independence but to spread prosperity in their communities. Wendy and I discussed the advantages of being a company that puts human potential and intelligence first in everything it does from numerous angles. Sama’s example shows beyond a doubt that everything we’ve been taught about how to succeed in business is far from the only way – or even the best way – to thrive. In addition, we touched on: • Why it’s difficult to think long-term as a non-profit • The relationship between human judgment and AI • Why Sama became a B-Corp • The power of putting clear ethical boundaries on the work you accept • Why choosing investors that align with your mission is make-or-break • The future of AI and multi-modal models • And more — Brought to you by: Mercury – The art of simplified finances. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Learn more⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. DigitalOcean – The cloud loved by developers and founders alike. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Neo4j – The graph database and analytics leader. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Learn more⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. — Where to find Wendy Gonzalez • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wendy-gonzalez-a319788/ Where to find Eric: • Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericries.carrd.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  • Podcast: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  • YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  — In This Episode We Cover: (05:17) The importance of our relationship to the people who make the products we use (06:42) The human care that goes into AI development (07:57) Sama’s mission (09:12) How Sama got to its leadership position in the creation of ethical AI (10:31) The focus on valuing human judgment in work (13:50) The Sama origin story (17:13) The informal economy vs. the formal economy (18:36) How Sama’s model helps break the poverty cycle (20:01) Giving human capital a chance to shine (21:30) Why Sama doesn’t pay people for training and the success of that approach (23:44) Leila Janah and her vision for Sama (27:38) How and why Sama converted to a for-profit company with a foundation attached (29:42) Identifying AI as the pivot (31:02) The difficulties of having a long-term plan in the non-profit world (32:49) Why Sama needed to build its own technology and raise the money to do so (36:10) How a non-profit becomes a for-profit (37:29) How Sama split into two entities: a company and a foundation (39:41) Sama’s governance structure including how the foundation is represented in the (43:56) Choosing mission-aligned investors (45:46) How Sama’s success disproves conventional business theory (52:00) Turning a liability into strategy (53:47) How Sama’s mission led it to create real value and be in position for the emergence of AI (58:06) The need for standards and ethical guidelines for the data supply chain (1:01:46) Combating bias and danger through visibility (1:03:57) The case for ethical data as a competitive strategy (1:07:21) Wendy’s thoughts on what the future of AI will bring (1:10:30) Lighting round, including the creation of Sama’s Ethics Guild  (1:23:46) What Wendy wishes she’d known ten years ago You can find the transcript and references at https://www.ericriesshow.com/ — Production and marketing by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://penname.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Eric may be an investor in the companies discussed.