The Eric Ries Show

Todd Park, co-founder and CEO of Devoted Health and former U.S. CTO, shares insights on building a healthcare company that prioritizes love and community. He discusses how to operationalize love within a complex system, creating an environment where trust fuels growth. Todd emphasizes that hard healthcare problems should be central to a company's mission and how a strong culture can prevent mission drift. The conversation also touches on attracting top talent, forming partnerships, and the significance of member stories in fostering a robust organizational culture.

Join Dr. Brent Ridge and Josh Kilmer-Purcell, co-founders of Beekman 1802, known for their innovative goat milk skincare line. They share their journey from city careers to a farmhouse with 80 goats that sparked a purpose-driven brand. Discover how they turned a simple soap into a luxury product and scaled through community support. The duo discusses the strategic advantages of kindness in business, maintaining authenticity, and creating a brand that fosters a sense of belonging. Learn why true purpose comes from consistent actions, not just marketing.

Lukas Biewald, founder of Weights & Biases and former CEO of CrowdFlower, shares insights from his extensive career in AI. He discusses how playing Go shaped his understanding of computation and pattern recognition. Lukas reveals lessons learned from his early struggles, emphasizing the importance of timing and genuine care for products and users. He also explains how he reignited his passion through an unpaid internship at OpenAI. Additionally, he highlights the significance of delight in enterprise software and the cultural fit that matters in acquisitions.

Gary Hamel, a leading management thinker, and Michele Zanini, co-founder of the Management Lab, dive deep into how to eliminate the shackles of bureaucracy to unleash human potential. They discuss the historical roots of bureaucracy, highlighting its past benefits and current drawbacks. Engagement is alarmingly low, and they propose a shift from compliance to contribution. With principles of ownership and minimal hierarchy, they share practical steps for creating dynamic organizations. Case studies like Buurtzorg illustrate the power of autonomous teams, making a compelling case for change.

David Gelles, a New York Times climate correspondent and author of 'Dirtbag Billionaire,' delves into the ethos of Patagonia and its founder, Yvon Chouinard. They discuss how Patagonia defies profit-driven norms by prioritizing environmental values and quality craftsmanship. Gelles explains Chouinard's unconventional journey from blacksmith to billionaire while maintaining integrity. The conversation also highlights the importance of ethical corporate practices and innovative ownership structures that ensure a company’s mission endures beyond its founder.

Matthew Prince, Co-founder and CEO of Cloudflare, discusses the evolution of his company, which now protects a significant portion of internet traffic. He dives into the urgent challenges posed by AI, particularly how it threatens the traditional web business model. Prince emphasizes the need for creators to be compensated fairly and paints a vision for a more sustainable, human-centered internet. The conversation reflects on the balance between ethics and profitability as Cloudflare navigates its mission-driven journey.

In this engaging conversation, Guillermo Rauch, CEO and founder of Vercel — a leader in web development powering giants like OpenAI and Nintendo — shares his inspiring journey from Argentina to Silicon Valley. He delves into how open source not only shaped his career but remains essential for innovation. The discussion touches on the evolution of coding practices, the rise of AI in software development, and the concept of 'vibe coding.' Guillermo also highlights the importance of empowering teams to drive adaptability and creativity at Vercel.

In this episode of The Eric Ries Show, I’m joined by Sid Sijbrandij, co-founder and Executive Chair of GitLab—one of the world’s most radically transparent and values-driven software companies.Sid shares how GitLab evolved from an open-source side project into a publicly traded DevOps platform, all while remaining deeply aligned with its values. From turning down a $10 million offer to maintaining control through dual-class shares, Sid walks us through the principles and systems that have shaped GitLab from the start.We also delve into GitLab’s renowned, live, and public 2,000-page handbook—how it functions not only as documentation but also as a recruiting tool, cultural backbone, and governance mechanism.In our conversation today, we talk about the following topics:• Why Sid once cold-pitched a submarine inventor—and got hired• What led GitLab to turn down a $10M buyout and pursue an IPO• Why GitLab favors “boring solutions” by default—and avoids reinventing the wheel• The role of GitLab’s live, public handbook in building transparency and trust• Why every change at GitLab must be made in the handbook first• How the handbook supports hiring, alignment, and radical transparency• GitLab’s approach to decentralized decision-making• Why “customer results” sits at the top of GitLab’s values hierarchy• Sid’s case for open core as the future of software•How GitLab encourages informal connection in a remote-first culture—and the role of in-person meetups• And much more—Brought to you by:• Ahrefs – Get instant website traffic insights, without the noise. ⁠⁠Learn more⁠⁠. —Where to find Sid Sijbrandij:• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sijbrandij/• X: https://x.com/sytses—Where to find Eric:• Newsletter:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericries.carrd.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • Podcast:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • YouTube:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ —In This Episode We Cover:(00:00) Intro(02:52) The origins of GitLab(04:15) The MVP of GitLab and how it has evolved to a DevOps platform (05:09) Sid’s internships and why he chose to work with submarines after(08:57) How Sid became a submarine engineer (11:10) How Ruby sparked Sid’s interest in programming (12:28) Why GitLab said no to $10M and chose YC and decided to go IPO(17:45) How GitLab kept control including granting 10x voting shares before going public(22:25) GitLab’s extreme commitment to their values (28:29) GitLab’s Handbook and how changes are made (33:11) How GitLab handles pushback and how the handbook builds trust (37:38) An explanation of buyer-based open core at GitLab (38:35) The challenges implementing a lean startup approach (45:26) Keeping the organization aligned: How GitLab reinforces their values (53:51) Why GitLab updates values (55:57) Why senior engineers have an easier time securing budget(57:21) Putting customers first: GitLab’s value hierarchy explained(59:08) The case for decentralized decision-making—and how GitLab makes it work(1:03:24) The handbook’s role in recruiting and building alignment(1:06:25) Maintaining transparency after IPO(1:10:55) The three phases of GitLab’s all-remote operating policy (1:17:04) How GitLab developed its open core business model (1:20:19) The trust-building power of open source and Sid’s case for open core(1:25:20) Protective governance measures GitLab helps companies take (1:29:28) How Sid has been doing on his cancer journey, and his work to help others —You can find episode references at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠—Production and marketing by ⁠⁠Pen Name⁠⁠.Eric may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Matt Mullenweg, CEO of Automattic and co-founder of WordPress, shares insights from his two-decade journey in building open-source software. He discusses the pivotal moment of turning down a $200 million acquisition, emphasizing commitment to mission over money. Mullenweg delves into the evolution of trust in open source and its mainstream acceptance, even by giants like Microsoft. He also highlights Automattic's early embrace of remote work and innovative compensation strategies, alongside his excitement about AI's future potential.

Bob Sutton, an organizational psychologist at Stanford and a New York Times bestselling author, dives into workplace culture and leadership challenges. He reveals insights from his latest work, discussing the high cost of toxic leadership and the 'No Asshole Rule.' Sutton highlights the 'smart talk trap' that can stifle action and the need for psychological safety. He also examines real-life examples of companies navigating ethical dilemmas and resisting management fads while promoting innovation, emphasizing the delicate balance between confidence and humility in effective leadership.