The Eric Ries Show

In this episode of The Eric Ries Show, I sit down with Ev Williams—someone whose work has profoundly shaped the modern internet. Ev co-founded Twitter, created Medium, and before all that, built Blogger, the original blogging platform (and the one where my own blog, Startup Lessons Learned, still lives today).We cover a wide range of topics, but at the heart of our conversation is this: what does it mean to resist short-term pressures and build with long-term integrity?Ev reflects on the early days of the internet, the cultural shifts inside big tech, and what happens when the systems we design begin to shape us in return. He also shares the thinking behind his latest venture, Mozi—an app designed to make it easier for people to meet up in person, with less friction and more intention.In our conversation today, we talk about the following topics: • The value of building strong relationships (and how they compound over time)• The inside story of Google’s acquisition of Blogger• Google’s “don’t be evil” policy, and a case for radical honesty • Why Ev believes social media’s downsides were inevitable• How data obsession can kill creativity• Ev’s “feel it” principle and what it means for entrepreneurs• The backlash against Medium’s login wall, and what it taught him about friction and trust• How strong governance and intentional culture can safeguard a company’s mission• Ev’s latest project, Mozi—an app that takes the hassle out of meeting up in person• And much more!—Brought to you by:• Wilson Sonsini – Wilson Sonsini is the innovation economy’s law firm. ⁠⁠⁠Learn more⁠⁠⁠.• Gusto – Gusto is an easy payroll and benefits software built for small businesses. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Get 3 months free⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.—Where to find Ev Williams:• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/evanwilliams/• X: https://x.com/ev—Where to find Eric:• Newsletter:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericries.carrd.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • Podcast:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • YouTube:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ —In This Episode We Cover:(00:00) Intro(02:29) How Ev feels knowing his company, Blogger, acquired by Google, is still going (06:01) Why many of Ev’s businesses have endured (13:26) Ev’s early years growing up on a farm and how he ended up at O’Reilly (20:46) The internet’s shift from idealism to reality—and why we still can’t see its full impact(28:00) Motivations driving founders, and how Ev realized it’s about creativity (30:55) Google’s ‘don’t be evil’ policy, and the importance of creating high bar values(37:45) Ev’s thoughts on what went wrong with social media and if AI companies can do better(45:00) The protective role of good governance(54:10) Insights gleaned from the book Why Greatness Cannot Be Planned (1:00:14) Why MBA-thinking and metric obsession are culture killers(1:05:23) A story about trusting in a hypothesis before data is there (1:06:35) Medium’s failure with the login pop-up (1:09:58) How good governance and strong culture empower torchbearers (1:12:34) An overview of Mozi, an app that helps make in-person meetups easier(1:16:10) Lightning round —You can find the transcript and references at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠—Production and marketing by⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://penname.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.Eric may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Jess Mah, an entrepreneur who kickstarted her first business in middle school and co-founded over 10 companies valued at more than $1 billion, shares her transformative journey. She discusses how the failure of inDinero without VC funding led her to prioritize long-term thinking, authenticity, and mental health. Jess highlights the hidden benefits of failure, AI's role in lowering business entry barriers, and her unique 90-day trial for evaluating executives. Her insights on supporting female founders and the psychological aspects of entrepreneurship make for a compelling conversation!

Marten Mickos, a serial tech CEO known for steering MySQL through its open-source era and enhancing cybersecurity at HackerOne, shares fascinating insights from his career. He discusses how MySQL transformed the database landscape and the strategic shift to open-source. Marten dives into the significance of transparency in building trust, his practical approach to leadership challenges, and the role of mentorship as he transitions to coaching new CEOs. Also, he highlights the disruptive potential of bug bounty programs in enhancing cybersecurity.

In this episode of The Eric Ries Show, I'm joined by Celine Halioua, founder and CEO of Loyal, a groundbreaking biotech startup developing drugs to extend dogs' healthspan and lifespan. Celine's journey combines her passion for animals with a bold scientific mission that looks beyond pets to potentially transform human longevity as well.Our conversation explores:• Why ambitious, moonshot visions can paradoxically make fundraising and team-building easier• The critical early pivot that positioned Loyal for its first drug approval• The undervalued power of listening deeply and asking the right questions• Loyal's philosophy of exceeding regulatory requirements to build trust and advance the field• Balancing the startup need for speed with scientific rigor and safety• How Celine's background led her to focus on the untapped potential of canine longevity• The competitive advantage of pursuing novel ideas before they become industry trends• Why founder conviction and scientific expertise were crucial to overcoming skepticism• Celine's approach to governance and maintaining mission control for the long-term• Navigating the challenges of Silicon Valley as a female founder in biotech• The realistic timeline and milestones for Loyal's drug development and approvals• Building for truly long-term impact beyond conventional startup timelines• And much more! —Brought to you by:• Vanta – Automate compliance, manage risk, and prove trust—continuously. ⁠⁠Save $1,000 today⁠⁠.• Explo – Explo helps teams deploy customer dashboard portals. ⁠Get Started⁠.—Where to find Celine Halioua: • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/celinehh/• X: https://x.com/celinehalioua• Website: https://www.celinehh.com/—Where to find Eric:• Newsletter:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericries.carrd.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • Podcast:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • YouTube:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ —In This Episode We Cover:(00:00) Intro(03:29) Early challenges Celine faced promoting Loyal(08:20) The early pivot that led to Loyal’s first drug approval(14:50) The importance of listening and asking questions(15:58) Why you have to love the mission (18:02) Why a lofty mission makes it easier to gain support(22:30) Loyal’s commitment to regulatory frameworks—and doing more than required(29:10) How to balance speed with safety and quality (34:36) Eric’s startup lesson on speed and compromises (38:22) How Celine became interested in the biotech space and canine longevity (47:32) The power of new ideas, and why it’s too late once it’s a trend(50:28) How Celine’s conviction and scientific expertise drove Loyal’s success(56:00) Celine’s advice to new founders: go deep(1:00:15) How and why Celine maintains control of Loyal(1:07:23) Breaking through the glass ceiling of Silicon Valley (1:15:50) Challenges of building a long-term company, and Loyal’s real milestones(1:21:11) The timeline of Loyal’s drug approvals (1:24:02) Lightning round—You can find the transcript and references at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠—Production and marketing by⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://penname.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.Eric may be an investor in the companies discussed.

In this episode of The Eric Ries Show, I sit down with Daniel Dines, the Founder and CEO of UiPath, a company that started in robotic process automation (RPA) and is now making a bold shift into agentic AI. Dubbed “the boss of bots” by Forbes, Daniel has led UiPath from its humble beginnings to a $6.65 billion company that’s reshaping the future of automation.Daniel’s journey is anything but conventional. After working as an engineer on SQL at Microsoft, he felt a pull toward something more creative—building his own product. That decision led him back to Romania, where he founded the company that would eventually become UiPath.In our conversation today, we talk about the following topics: • Why stepping out of your comfort zone is key to growth• The Jack London book that changed Daniel’s life • The benefits of bootstrapping vs. raising big VC money• Why letting go is the hard part of a pivot• How failure can unlock unexpected opportunities• A case for mixing work and life to build a strong company culture • Why empowering employees is good for business • What Daniel learned from UiPath’s journey to IPO • Daniel’s plans for his second stint as CEO• Why Daniel is optimistic about the impact AI will have on the future of work• And more!—Brought to you by:• Wilson Sonsini – Wilson Sonsini is the innovation economy’s law firm. ⁠Learn more⁠.• Explo – Explo helps teams deploy customer dashboard portals. Get Started.• Gusto – Gusto is an easy payroll and benefits software built for small businesses. ⁠⁠⁠Get 3 months free⁠⁠⁠.—Where to find Daniel Dines:• LinkedIn: https://x.com/danieldines• X: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danieldines/—Where to find Eric:• Newsletter:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericries.carrd.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • Podcast:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • YouTube:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ —In This Episode We Cover:(00:00) Intro(03:11) Growing up in communist Romania(10:00) The importance of breaking out of your comfort zone(13:41) Joy as a sign you’re on the right path (15:27) The Jack London book that made Daniel an entrepreneur (16:40) The beginnings of UiPath(18:50) Why writing code wasn’t enough for Daniel and why coding is creative (22:22) UiPath’s values (24:50) Why Daniel returned to Romania(28:00) Advantages of bootstrapping (30:50) Pivoting to become a product company from outsourcing(33:27) An early password management product that didn’t work out(34:55) The difficult pivot that led to the product that is UiPath now(39:10) How the early failures led to the big opportunity (41:37) Hitting product market fit (43:50) Why Daniel hired misfits, and the characteristics he looked for in hires(48:32) How Daniel protected UiPath's values and why he plans to renew the commitment(54:00) The importance of empowering employees at all levels to provide feedback(57:47) UiPath’s journey to IPO(1:01:30) Why Eric thinks he didn’t prepare Daniel psychologically for the difficulty of IPO(1:03:46) Synthetic volatility’s human cost (1:07:01) Why Daniel stepped down as CEO and why he’s resuming CEO duties(1:11:55) Daniel’s second stint as CEO: hiring people he likes and going all in on agentic AI(1:18:20) The promise of open source(1:19:24) Daniel’s thoughts on the future of work (1:24:36) Lightning round —You can find the transcript and references at⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠—Production and marketing by⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://penname.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.Eric may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Alyssa Ravasio, the CEO and Founder of Hipcamp, has transformed outdoor recreation by opening access to private camping spots. She shares how her childhood connection to nature shaped her entrepreneurial journey. The conversation delves into her early challenges, the importance of staying mission-focused, and the innovative practices that have propelled Hipcamp's growth. Alyssa emphasizes fostering a positive company culture, the significance of feedback, and aligning business goals with community stewardship to enhance outdoor accessibility.

Gagan Biyani, a serial entrepreneur and CEO of Maven, reflects on his journey from co-founding Udemy to launching his latest project. He shares how a free truffle taught him the pitfalls of traditional business thinking. Biyani emphasizes the importance of intuition over metrics and discusses fostering company culture while scaling. He candidly reveals lessons from his exit at Udemy and the emotional complexities of partnerships. The conversation also dives into AI's transformative potential in education, exploring its limitations and the need for human touch in learning.

Luis von Ahn, CEO and co-founder of Duolingo, shares insights on building a $17 billion language learning platform without sacrificing mission for profit. He recounts how an intern birthed the viral green owl mascot and discusses the app's unique revenue model, where only 10% of users contribute to 30% of the revenue. Emphasizing long-term goals over immediate gains, he explores Duolingo's innovative company culture, the importance of experimentation for user retention, and how gamification transformed the learning experience.

In this episode of The Eric Ries Show, I sit down with Craig Newmark, the founder of Craigslist—one of the internet’s most influential platforms. Despite its massive impact, Craigslist has remained intentionally minimalist, resisting the hyper-monetization strategies common in tech. Craig attributes his success to being in the right place at the right time, but his story reveals a deeper truth: a steadfast commitment to his values. We discuss how his moral compass shaped Craigslist, his approach to business sustainability, and his perspective on ethical entrepreneurship. In this episode, we cover: • The origins of Craigslist as a simple email newsletter • Why Craig resisted aggressive monetization and focused on community impact • The market research behind Craigslist’s minimal fees • How Craigslist maintained its mission even after Craig stepped back from leadership • Craig’s thoughts on AI, cybersecurity, and the future of journalism • How Craig’s strong relationship with customers kept him aligned with his values • Craig’s philanthropic work • Craig’s advice for new founders • And more! — Brought to you by: Vanta – Automate compliance, manage risk, and prove trust—continuously. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Get $1,000 off⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. • Gusto – Gusto is an easy payroll and benefits software built for small businesses. ⁠Get 3 months free⁠. Runway – The finance platform you don’t hate. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Learn more⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. — Where to find Craig Newmark: • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/craignewmark/ • X: https://x.com/craignewmark — Where to find Eric: • Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericries.carrd.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  • Podcast: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  • YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  — In This Episode We Cover: (00:00) Intro (03:06) The origins of Craigslist  (12:20) Why Craig used email in the beginning (14:03) Lessons from Sunday school that shaped Craig’s moral compass  (15:34) How Craigslist promoted community  (17:42) Craig’s resistance to the allure of maximum monetization (19:44) Why Craigslist became a private business, rather than a non-profit  (24:15) How monetization works at Craigslist  (27:11) Why Craigslist doesn’t need to drive engagement the way social media sites do (30:54) The size and scale of Craigslist (31:47) Current threats in cybersecurity  (33:44) How Craig became interested in cybersecurity  (35:34) How Craigslist maintained mission alignment after Craig left management  (40:54) Craig’s perspective on contentment and why he’s remained fulfilled (42:25) Advice for aspiring world-changers (47:56) Craig’s thoughts on AI  (51:08) Craig’s philanthropic work with journalism  (53:24) Problems in journalism today (54:37) Craig’s involvement with Donors Choose (57:14) Craig’s pigeon rescue work (58:58) Advice for new founders  (1:01:02) The importance of staying close to the customer (1:05:03) The case for avoiding exploitation  (1:07:16) Lightning round — You can find the transcript and references at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — Production and marketing by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://penname.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Eric may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Join Amir Nathoo, Co-founder and CEO of Outschool, as he shares his journey from a self-directed learner to shaping an online education platform that prioritizes children's interests. He discusses the vital role of AI in education and the importance of human interaction. Amir emphasizes how businesses can champion social good while maximizing profit. He reveals lessons from the homeschool movement and critiques traditional investors' impact on educational disruption. This conversation is a call for innovative, mission-driven approaches in the evolving landscape of learning.