Night Science

It’s surprising that for centuries, scientists have left the study of how to do science largely to non-scientists. Not anymore – thanks to the young field of cognitive epistemology. In this episode, we discuss the exciting – and surprising – science of doing science with Marina Dubova, a postdoc at the Santa Fe Institute and soon a professor at UC Berkeley. Marina found, for example, that to get the most powerful theories, you should not plan the collection of data with a view to falsify or validate existing hypotheses; instead, try to get as diverse a dataset as possible. It adds a new angle to an idea that we discussed in many previous episodes: that discoveries often arise from exploratory data collection. Based on Marina’s research and her own process, we also discuss how science thrives on diversity at all levels – data, ideas, questions, scientists – and on the use of analogies and metaphors. The Night Science Podcast is produced by the Night Science Institute. For more information on Night Science, visit night-science.org .

Ken Stanley, a prominent AI researcher and Senior VP at LilaSciences, explores the pitfalls of ambitious objectives in research. He argues that such goals can obscure true opportunities for innovation, recommending a shift towards curiosity-driven exploration. The conversation delves into 'night science' versus 'day science', the importance of constraints in open-ended discovery, and how intuition can lead to significant breakthroughs. Ken also advocates for funding proposals that prioritize explorative play, emphasizing that great discoveries often emerge from unexpected directions.

Maria Leptin is the President of the ERC, the European Research Council, and Professor of genetics at the University of Cologne. In this episode, Maria describes her own path as one driven by observation and curiosity rather than long-term planning, and discusses why small, intellectually vibrant institutes often outperform large labs. We discuss how funding agencies can better support bold ideas, and we explore how to evaluate creativity in grant proposals and why a focus on feasibility can stifle innovation. We also consider the role of grant writing in shaping ideas, the differences between academia and industry, and the importance of stable yet non-complacent careers.The Night Science Podcast is produced by the Night Science Institute. For more information on Night Science, visit night-science.org .®

Stephen Nachmanovitch is a musician celebrated for his free improvisations, and an educator whose books Free Play and The Art of Is have become classics on the creative process. With his training as an ecologist and his PhD in the history of consciousness, Stephen brings a unique philosophical view on art, science, and life to the podcast. In our discussion, Stephen reflects on how creativity is not a thing but a living process: the art of IS. He draws connections between artistic and scientific practice, emphasizing how both depend on careful attention to the world, openness to mistakes, and dialogue across perspectives. We discuss how fear of error inhibits creativity, and how improvisation can free us from perfectionism. We also touch upon the importance of chivalry in dialogue, the art of advancing each other’s ideas rather than blocking them. The Night Science Podcast is produced by the Night Science Institute. For more information on Night Science, visit night-science.org .

Akiko Iwasaki, a Yale immunology professor and Time's 100 Most Influential People of 2024, dives into the nuances of research collaboration and creativity. She describes how diverse backgrounds enhance scientific inquiry and shares insights on managing expectations in large teams. With a clever multi-layered puzzle analogy, she illustrates the complexities of studying viruses and long COVID. Akiko emphasizes a patient-driven approach to uncover core issues while fostering a lab culture that encourages unique hypotheses. Her reflections on training abroad highlight the importance of resilience in research.

Alan Karthikesalingam and Vivek Natarajan from Google DeepMind delve into their groundbreaking AI co-scientist project. They discuss how this innovation mirrors human hypothesis generation while revealing its limitations. The duo highlights the intriguing idea of AI’s ‘tournaments’ of concepts and its quest to think beyond established facts. They also explore the potential for AI to generate novel research questions and the importance of maintaining human insight in scientific exploration, ultimately reshaping the future of discovery.

Eve Marder, a pioneering neuroscientist from Brandeis University and 2023 National Medal of Science recipient, shares her insights on the creative nature of scientific discovery. She emphasizes the importance of intuition and the tolerance for ambiguity in research. Marder discusses how rigid publishing standards have led to 'recipe science,' stifling creativity and innovative thought. The conversation also underscores the evolving role of AI in education and the essential link between reading and effective scientific writing.

In this enlightening conversation, Martin Schwartz, a Yale professor and author of the thought-provoking essay on scientific stupidity, shares his insights on the importance of feeling clueless in research. He discusses how ego can stifle creativity and emphasizes the value of resilience and passionate indifference. Schwartz advocates for embracing uncertainty and interdisciplinary thinking to foster innovation. He also touches on the parallels between scientists and first-generation immigrants, championing the need for ongoing reinvention in academia.

Ethan Mollick, a Wharton professor and author of “Co-Intelligence,” dives into how generative AI like ChatGPT can supercharge scientific creativity. He reveals that AI thrives on generating ideas and making connections across disciplines, serving as a supportive brainstorm partner. Ethan discusses the unique role of AI's 'hallucinations' in spurring innovation and how collaborative workflows can elevate research. He advocates for scientists to embrace these tools for better creativity, while also rethinking traditional methods in light of AI's advancements.

David Baker, a University of Washington professor and 2024 Nobel Prize winner, shares insights on designing proteins with AI. He discusses his lab's innovative 'communal brain' structure, where researchers work interconnectedly to foster creativity. The conversation dives into AI's role in scientific inquiry, questioning its true creative potential. Baker also addresses the pressing funding crisis affecting young researchers, emphasizing the need for a collaborative atmosphere to drive future breakthroughs in science.