Behind the Book Cover

Jamie Rose is proof that reinvention can be a superpower. After decades as a working actress, she did what most in Hollywood never dare: she pivoted.First came writing. She landed a Penguin deal for her memoir Shut Up and Dance, diving headfirst into the brutal world of publishing. Then came coaching, where she transformed her 37 years of training with psychiatrist Phil Stutz (of The Tools and Jonah Hill’s Netflix doc Stutz) into a career helping others unlock their potential.Now she’s tackling her boldest project yet: Facing Madame X: An Initiation into Feminine Power (out March 2026). Part memoir, part self-help, the book distills Stutz’s groundbreaking tools through Jamie’s uniquely female perspective, weaving hard-won lessons of resilience, humor and creativity.Jamie had to figure out the system for herself. She rode the highs (landing a book deal with a major publisher) and the lows (refreshing Amazon rankings until she nearly lost her mind). She discovered that success wasn’t about fame or money alone—it was about emotional “f-you money,” joy in the process and leaving a legacy that makes people weep (in the best way).Episode HighlightsJamie’s leap from Hollywood (Falcon Crest, The Tonight Show) to published author and coachThe rollercoaster of her first book Shut Up and Dance—Penguin deal, PR mishaps, Amazon obsessionLessons from 37 years with mentor Phil Stutz, now shaping her new book Facing Madame X (2026)Redefining “f-you money” as emotional freedom, not just financial securityWhy reinvention, resilience, and joy matter more than chasing external validationKey TakeawaysTraditional publishing offers prestige but little control—authors must drive their own successSetbacks can spark reinvention and deeper purposeMentorship and long-term practice transform both work and lifeEmotional wealth and detachment create true powerBooks are about legacy and impact, not just sales numbers

Mark Ebner has lived every journalist’s dream.  He’s a New York Times bestselling author, Hollywood insider and the guy behind some of the most notorious exposés in entertainment history. But behind the bylines and book deals is a story about an industry that chews up even its most fearless voices—and a writer who found a way to keep telling the truth anyway.In this conversation, Mark and I talk about everything the publishing world doesn’t want you to know—from missing royalty checks and botched releases to what happens when AI starts scraping your life’s work. He opens up about his unlikely friendship with Andrew Breitbart, the chaos of the book business and how he went from bestselling author to private investigator—while somehow staying one of the funniest, most unflinchingly honest people I’ve ever met.Episode HighlightsThe truth about what it really means to hit the New York Times list (and why it doesn’t make you rich)How HarperCollins mishandled his biggest book deal—and what it taught him about the industry’s dysfunctionThe unexpected camaraderie between a radical leftist and a far-right pundit and how it produced Hollywood, InterruptedWhy bookstores literally killed one of his bestsellers by shelving it in the wrong sectionThe burnout and betrayal that pushed him to leave journalism and launch a private investigation firmHis take on AI, intellectual theft and the future (or end) of nonfiction writingThe celebrity scandals, lawsuits and cult investigations that defined his career—and why he’s done telling other people’s storiesThe strange parallels between chasing leads as a PI and chasing truth as a reporterThe book he still wants to write—and why he might call it Dirtbag

Tom Zoellner, an acclaimed nonfiction author and professor, shares his journey from obscurity to recognition, highlighting his view of writing as a pursuit of curiosity rather than fame. He challenges the role of technology in creativity, expressing skepticism about AI while embracing its potential. Their discussion covers the chaotic evolution of publishing, the importance of BISAC codes, and the pressures of memoir writing. Ultimately, Tom underscores the joy found in the craft of writing over the pursuit of publicity, advocating for the significance of each book's contribution to shared knowledge.

Dennis Hensley, a versatile writer and performer known for his novel Misadventures in the (213) and diverse creative work, shares his journey of resilience and career pivots. He talks about his breakthrough in the 90s LA writing scene, the unglamorous hustle behind his debut novel, and the impact of the Fashion Police strike on his life. From balancing freelance income to realizing that dance gigs paid more than writing, Dennis emphasizes the importance of creativity and persistence amidst challenges. He inspires listeners to embrace the art of trying, regardless of the outcome.

Heather Wood Rudulph has done many things in the publishing world, including co-writing Sexy Feminism: A Girl's Guide to Love, Success and Style with Jennifer Keishin Armstrong (a title that very much captured a specific moment in feminist evolution but makes Rudulph give a tiny cringe now).We met back in the New York media heyday when things like "readings and rub downs" (yes, book readings with massages) seemed totally normal.Heather's spent over a decade writing about culture and entertainment for everyone from Cosmo to Rolling Stone and now wears many hats in the words world (including as an occasional editor for my company!) This conversation digs into the realities of traditional publishing: the battles you pick, the dreams that get dashed and why understanding business matters as much as loving words.Topics Discussed:Fighting for your title: How Heather and her co-author battled their publisher five times to keep Sexy Feminism as their title and why picking your battles matters when you have so little controlThe subtitle that aged: Why A Girl's Guide to Love, Success and Style captures a specific moment in feminist history that "wasn't quite there yet"Traditional publishing reality check: Self-funded book tours, throwing yourself parties in cities where you have friends and learning that you're essentially your own PR machineThe $0 royalty statement: Getting trolled by emails showing zero earnings, letters about books being destroyed in landfills and the occasional thrill of foreign translations"You're lucky to be publishing a book": Why authors have to make compromises to get to the finish line but also when to stand firmThe proposals that break your heart: Six months developing a Madonna book pitch, not getting the deal, watching someone else write basically the same bookWriters don't get paid for proposals: The reality that you don't earn anything for pitching articles, writing proposals or preparing to teach—only for the finished productWhen the golden curtain opens: Jennifer Keishin Armstrong's revelation that publishers only hold real marketing meetings after you've proven you're successful (her Seinfeld book hitting the NYT list)The advance is not vacation money: Why even six-figure book deals aren't what people think and how writers should already be thinking about the next book before the first one comes outFrom entertainment reporter to marketing: How Heather pivoted from writing fluffy celebrity profiles and traveling to spas worldwide to understanding that storytelling lives in business tooThe entrepreneurship of writing: Why understanding business isn't selling out—it's survival and how freelancers have to become their own marketing departmentsAmazon is the list that matters: Not the New York Times bestseller list but Amazon rankings and reviews from regular people that live forever"Anybody can write a book": But it's like running a marathon—you have to train, know what you're getting into, keep going when it hurts and want it for the right reasonsMentioned:Sexy Feminism: A Girl's Guide to Love, Success and StyleJennifer Keishin Armstrong (co-author and TV show book specialist)SexyFeminist.com (their website that became the book)The era of Feministing and Jezebel"Readings and Rub Downs" events at Birch CoffeeWork at Cosmo, DAYSPA magazine, LA Daily News and various digital media companiesThe sustainability startup that paid $2/word (briefly)Launch Pad Publishing (Anna's company where Heather now occasionally freelances)

Jeanne Darst's story is what happens when everything goes right—and then you realize "right" is more complicated than you thought. After years of doing plays for 200 people in Vermont, she hit the publishing lottery: a bidding war sparked by a “This American Life” appearance that had publishers hunting her down by the next morning. Riverhead Books won with serious money, the New York Times loved it, Vogue excerpted it, HBO optioned it and she wrote the pilot. It was the full fantasy—except the show didn't get picked up (Girls was coming out), and she spent the next decade in the Hollywood machine. Her TV writing career was a success—she got a series of TV staff writing jobs—but her second book, Dad's Trying to Kill Me, couldn't find a publisher (despite glowing rejections). Now she's back to putting on shows while continuing to write, because sometimes the dream coming true teaches you what you actually want.Episode Highlights:How Jeanne's This American Life story triggered a massive publishing bidding war overnightThe strategic decision to write a proposal instead of submitting a completed manuscriptWhy Jeanne chose Riverhead and editor Sarah McGrath over the highest bidderThe simultaneous media blitz: book launch, Vogue excerpt, and This American Life featureHow HBO optioned the book before publication, leading to pilot writing opportunitiesThe reality of post-success hustle: why the dream is "just the beginning of heartbreak"Jeanne's second book rejection and the lesson about going to small pressesWhy she's returning to grassroots theater after a decade in HollywoodThe father-daughter dynamic when children outachieve their parents professionallyKey Takeaways:Two years of persistence can lead to overnight success Agents and gatekeepers are "smart secretaries" - you must drive your own careerWomen wait 8 months to resubmit after rejection; men wait 3 daysBig advances don't guarantee book tours or sustained marketing supportPublishers only invest real marketing dollars in books that are already succeedingHollywood packaging deals often benefit agencies more than the writers themselvesComplete projects teach more than abandoned ones - finish what you startTraditional publishing success requires constant self-advocacy and hustleFamily reactions to memoirs can be complicated, especially around professional jealousy

Hannah Sward’s publishing journey reads like a masterclass in persistence meets divine intervention.After years of writing short stories for underground literary journals, she stumbled into a free writer’s group at a library—complete with homeless people sleeping on the sidelines.That’s where she met Jill Sherry Robinson, an 80-year-old bestselling author who essentially kidnapped her and mentored her until she finished her book.Through a comedy of errors involving three different agents (one retired three months after signing her), Sward eventually sold her book for a whopping $500 advance.But here's the kicker: by the time her book Strip came out in 2022, Sward had built such authentic relationships in the recovery community that the book found its audience organically. No Instagram strategy needed—just good old-fashioned showing up. Now she's chronicling her sexual adventures after 50 on Substack, where she’s learned that—guess what?—vulnerability pays off when book deals may not.Episode Highlights:How Hannah's 14-year friendship with Anna led to confessing literary jealousy at an AA meetingThe serendipitous connection with 80-year-old mentor Jill Sherry Robinson at a free library writers groupHannah's unconventional memoir structure: 75 short chapters designed for non-readersThe grueling agent search: 100 rejections and three failed agent relationships before going soloPublishing with a small press for a $500 advance while her father was dying in hospiceHow building authentic community relationships over years created organic publicity opportunitiesThe launch of "Summer of Men" Substack about sex after 50 that had readers paying to find out what happens nextWhy Hannah refuses to repeat the traditional publishing process for her next bookKey Takeaways:Jealousy among writers is normal and can be processed healthily through honest conversationMentorship can appear unexpectedly - stay open to guidance from unlikely sourcesPersistence pays off: Hannah's father modeled being "the king of rejection" as a badge of honorCommunity building matters more than platform building for authentic book promotionThe publishing process can be an "integrated experience" when you work through disappointments internallySmall press publishing with low advances can still lead to meaningful success and readershipLeading with credentials (blurbs from Nobel Prize winners) gets manuscripts read, not just good writingWriting partnerships and accountability groups sustain creative work over yearsSuccess doesn't fill the internal "hole" - there will always be compare and despair momentsSometimes the journey to publication teaches more than the publication itself

if you’re a subscriber, hi! It’s been a minute. And by a minute I mean it’s been almost a year.That’s because one of the main reasons I do a podcast is so that I can educate myself and after hundreds of interviews, I felt like I’d learned everything I could about how to build authority with a book. I even used many of those interviews in the book I published in 2023, also called On Good Authority.I was surprised to discover that despite not posting any new episodes, this podcast has been kicking along—remaining in the top 1% of podcasts just because new people are finding the show, or some of you authority junkies are listening to episodes over and over?Anyway, lately, I’ve been feeling that podcast itch again: that craving for the mic. And I also started a Substack that I’ve loved writing. One day recently it occurred to me that the Substack could have an accompanying podcast and then it occurred to me, hey I already have a podcast – it’s just been lying dormant. And so I’ve renamed the show Behind the Book Cover, same name as my Substack.Now I’m going to be focusing less on how to build authority from a book and more on the past, present and future of book publishing, as I see it.The past is the traditional publishing model, which means I’m going to spend the first season talking to authors who come from that world. We’re going to dive into the things no one wants to talk about: the tough days that follow getting the book deal.Season two will focus on the present: entrepreneurs that are earning literal millions as a result of their books, and how they’re doing it.And season three will delve into where book publishing is going, with a special focus, of course on AI.So why am I passionate about this new direction now? I’m so glad you asked!The Penguin Random House trial in 2023 revealed a lot that had previously been secret—namely, that 85% of book advances never earn out and Random House got its name because, as the CEO said in the trial, they never know which books will succeed so it’s random!The reality is that most authors make less than minimum wage. And here's the kicker—the entrepreneurs who get caught up in these publishing fantasies often end up worse off than when they started. They're so focused on impressing agents and publishers that they forget their actual goal: growing their business.So I'm going to be talking to authors about why traditional publishing dreams often backfire for business owners. I'll introduce you to smart entrepreneurs who use books strategically—not as lottery tickets, but as lead generation machines and authority builders. And I'll expose what the publishing industry doesn't want you to know about how this business actually works.Think of this as the same as On Good Authority but with a sharper edge. Depending on when you’re hearing this, I’ve either already released or am weeks away from releasing the show you know and love but fine tuned for your success. Same juicy interviews, same truth-telling, just more focused on what actually moves the needle in your business instead of feeding publishing fantasies that lead to disappointment.Whether you're thinking about writing a book, struggling with your first one, or wondering if any of this makes business sense, these conversations will save you time, money and heartache.Because here's the thing: once you stop chasing publishing validation and start using books as the business tools they actually are, everything changes. And I can't wait to show you how.Welcome to Behind the Book Cover.

Hilary Lifton is not one to boast, and I write that with more understatement than you can imagine.I was introduced to her recently at a party by someone who said she was a big ghostwriter. When I asked her about her career, she mentioned working on a self-help book.It was only when I Googled her later that I learned she has written 16 New York Times bestsellers and is one of the most sought-after ghostwriters alive. (While she chooses not to name her bold-faced clients, you can find out who some of them are by going to her site.)I've never had such an interesting conversation about ghostwriting and I challenge you that you've probably not heard one. I know that's setting expectations quite high but I'm ready to meet them!

Arlina Allen is a force in the recovery movement. Sober for over 30 years, she's been releasing episodes of her top 1% podcast, ODAAT Chat, for over eight.She's also been working on a book for almost that long—and now it's finally here! The 12-Step Guide for Skeptics: Clearing Up Common Misconceptions of A path to Sobriety is out now and for it, she showed her book-in-progress to people who not only didn't agree with what she was writing but who actually disagreed.In this episode, we talked about her process, how she realized that her original idea for the book was more an article than a book and the way her podcast set her up for book sucess.