Ditching Hourly

Veteran recruiter Norman Lieberman shares hard won war stories from 37 years of cold calling. Talking Points You have to take control of the conversation in the first 20 seconds The importance of finding out the client's problem before you even think about selling anything to them Why talking about your company, product, or process is worse than useless Why to lead with a question and then shut up What you can learn from a cold-calling master, even if you'll never do them yourself How to bring prospects back to what they want accomplished if they start talking about price too early in the conversation How to pull a relationship together out of thin air How to anchor your high price against the much higher cost of doing nothing How to respond to a client who asks if you guarantee your work How to make buyer's eye glaze over (and what to do instead) Links Norman's site Norman's email Learn Your Lines Jill Konrath on TBOA The Secret of Selling Anything The Red Balloon ----Do you have questions about how to improve your business? Things like:Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to: https://jonathanstark.com/callI hope to see you there!

You know you want your customers, employees, and communities to be engaged, but what exactly does ‘engagement’ mean? Scott Gould, author of The Shape of Engagement joins me to talk about how independent software developers can sow the seeds engagement. Talking Points Why engagement matters What engagement is The three levels of engagement The three processes that make up the cycle of engagement Real-world examples of how typical marketing activities fit in the cycle of engagement Simple steps software professionals can take to understand why their work matters to their clients Guest Bio Scott Gould is an author and popular speaker who champions the cause of real engagement in a world where so much is only skin-deep. As a management advisor he has helped some of the world’s biggest brands and oldest organisations get their customers, employees and communities highly engaged around their mission. Related Links Scott’s website Scott’s book "The Shape of Engagement" Trainer Weekly by Reuven Lerner How to Fascinate by Sally Hogshead TED Talk by Joe Pine Social Proof Derek Sivers Kai Davis ----Do you have questions about how to improve your business? Things like:Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to: https://jonathanstark.com/callI hope to see you there!

Freshbooks CEO Mike McDerment joins me to discuss his book Breaking the Time Barrier. Talking Points The importance to talking to your clients Looking for ways to help your audience How to push yourself out of your comfort zone Why hourly billing is a bad idea Quotable Quotes “In one year, I worked 19 days and brought in $200,000.”—MM “I think the constant paranoia of not knowing something is healthy.”—MM “Your peers are great for support but you should look for an advisor who is a reach for you.”—MM “If you think your clients are the enemy, you’re so far off ”—MM “Sitting around and saying ‘It’s hard!’ is not going to get you anywhere. Figure it out.”—MM “Hourly billing pits you against your clients.”—MM “When your billing by the hour, everyone is staring at their shoes instead of where they want to go.”—JS “You have to choose your clients.”—MM “It’s a flag for me if my client going to tell me how I charge for my work.”—MM “Let’s stop talking about hours. What is it you want when I’m done?”—MM “I want to know that I can be successful when I'm done.”—MM Related Links Breaking The Time Barrier Freshbooks Bureau of Digital Give it five minutes Mike’s Bio Mike McDerment is co-founder and CEO of FreshBooks, the world’s #1 accounting software in the cloud for self-employed professionals and their employees. Prior to FreshBooks, Mike ran his own design firm where he accidentally saved over an invoice and realized an unmet need in the market. In 2003, he started FreshBooks from his parents’ basement in Toronto. Since then, over 10 million people have used FreshBooks to save time billing, look professional, and collect billions of dollars. Mike and his team dedicate themselves to executing extraordinary experiences everyday for customers who want to focus on what they love, not their paperwork. Mike has also authored “Breaking The Time Barrier,” a guide to using value-based pricing to unlock your true earning potential which has been downloaded more than 250,000 times. ----Do you have questions about how to improve your business? Things like:Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to: https://jonathanstark.com/callI hope to see you there!

Guest Maggie Patterson describes how she more than doubled her income by ditching hourly billing. Talking Points How hourly billing decreases your income The value of creating clearly defined service packages The benefits of systematizing your service delivery The magic of naming process steps How taking control of the client engagement increases your fees The importance of saying no to clients who are a bad fit How productized services make the sales process easier Quotable Quotes "If you're saying yes to everyone, that's a bad thing."—MP "If your close rate is off, you're either talking to the wrong person or your proposals are off."—MP "We're always going to make more money with a flat rate. Always."—MP Maggie's Bio Maggie Patterson is a communications strategist, business growth consultant, and the principal consultant at Scoop Studios. With two decades of experience, Maggie has spent her entire career in client services and has been a successful entrepreneur for over 10 years. Today, she works with online and small business owners to help them implement smart strategies for business growth and to maximize the impact of their digital marketing. She’s the host of the Small Business Boss podcast, has been on stage at events such as New Media Expo, Podcast Movement, and the Conquer Summit, and her work has been featured in leading publications such as Entrepreneur.com, Fast Company and Virgin.com. Related Links Scoop Studios Website
 Small Business Boss Website
 Instagram
 Scoop Studios Business Facebook Page
 Small Business Boss Facebook Page
 ----Do you have questions about how to improve your business? Things like:Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to: https://jonathanstark.com/callI hope to see you there!

Guest David A. Fields shares a gold mine of practical advice on outreach, positioning, building authority, trust building, and more. Talking Points How to maximize your impact as a consultant How to "fish where the fish are" How to identify ugent problems that your clients are dying to pay you to fix for them How to win business even when you're up against giant competitors How to build trust in a five minute conversation Quotable Quotes "It's about the finding the right people, right problem, right solution, right time."—DAF "Winning business is easy when you're fishing where the fish are."—DAF "If you don't hear back from clients, you're operating where there's a lack of urgency."—DAF "If you're not winning as many clients as you'd like to, you have to make some changes."—DAF "You have to make your practice about the client, not about you."—DAF "Every time I have a conversation with someone who looks like my prospective clients, I learn something."—DAF "If you're smart and your willing to pick up something new, the sky's the limit."—DAF "Asking your client about hypotheticals will give you bad data. You have to ask them about the past."—DAF "What you differentiate yourself on are reliability and credibility."—DAF "Your whiz bang super unique process is likely to scare off clients."—DAF "Fees are the trickiest part of consulting."—DAF "There's more money to be had if you're solving a bigger problem for a bigger company."—DAF "You don't have to work with big companies to win big business."—DAF "You can build trust fairly quickly by living up to small promises."—DAF "Targeting aspirations is a longer sale than targeting problems."—DAF Related Links David's website David's book Guide To Winning Clients Dale Carnegie quote about fishing with strawberries and cream Oren Klaff's power frame concept from his book Pitch Anything Gartner Hype Cycle Transcript Jonathan S: 00:00 Hello and welcome to Ditching Hourly. I'm Jonathan Stark. Today I am joined by David A. Fields. David is the co-founder of Ascendant Consulting, is a true consultants' consultant who works with selling boutique consulting firms worldwide, a best selling author, speaker, consultant and mentor. David also heads the Ascendant Consortium whose clients are who's who of the business world. David, welcome to the show. David F: 00:22 Thank you so much, Jonathan. It is fabulous to be here. Jonathan S: 00:25 It's really my pleasure. So for folks who maybe haven't come across you before, could you just give people a crash course and who you are and what you do? David F: 00:33 Sure, and imagine that, there are people who are not aware of me. It happens every day. 95% of my business right now, Jonathan, is actually working with other consulting firms. So whether they are solo practitioners, or small boutiques up to, call it $25 million, I work with a few folks that are larger, but mostly 25 million and under, down to the folks that maybe have just started a practice and are just sort of cracking six figures. And so while I have corporate clients, most of my work now is with the consulting firms that are trying to win those corporate clients. And that's what I spend my days doing, is helping them accomplish that goal. Jonathan S: 01:12 Excellent. So I've got your new book, it's called the Irresistible Consultant's Guide to Winning Clients. Thank you very much for that. And in it, it's broken into six sections, six steps to unlimited clients and financial freedom. And there's a section that I'm particularly interested in, so I think it would be a great place to start, and that is this section on, I think it's maximizing your impact. Am I- David F: 01:37 Sure. Jonathan S: 01:38 Okay. Cool. So can you sort of give ... There's a bunch of sort of sub-sections here. Could you give us a kind of overview and then we'll drill into individual questions? David F: 01:48 Sure. The one thing I would ... Let me preface this with, because this section, which on maximizing impact which is sort of step two, but it's important to understand that this comes before you start building visibility. A lot of consultants, a lot of freelancers want to get out there and just get known by everyone they can. David F: 02:09 And before you run out and try to spread the word about yourself, you need to make sure that the word will be listened to, that you're not just out there talking, you're saying words that people want to hear. And that's impact, that's maximizing your impact. So that's where this fits in. It's very early in the process, making sure your message is going to resonate. David F: 02:29 And basically, maximizing impact just comes down to a few pieces. You need to talk with the right people, about the right problem, offer the right solution in a way that's compellingly articulated at the right time. So right people, right problem, right solution and right time. Of those four, time is darn hard to figure out. David F: 02:50 And so I tend to say you know what, put that one aside because if you talk to enough of the right people, about the right problem, and offer the right solution, then you don't need to worry about the timing. Some of them will be ready to move and want your services. So that's it. That's really the core of maximizing impact. Jonathan S: 03:10 Excellent. So you have a great graph, it got six quadrants in it where you talk about the awareness of ... your sort of the clients' awareness, or the prospects' awareness of a problem- David F: 03:25 Sure. Jonathan S: 03:26 ... or opportunity, and their urgency around that. And this is a different way to describe something that I talked about here a lot. So I wonder if ... It is kind of visual, but I wonder if you can break it down. David F: 03:40 Yeah, sure. I can describe it. As a matter of fact, all your listeners can sort of build it for themselves very quickly and easily if they want. This is useful, so it's interesting you pulled this out. This is one piece I didn't mention inside maximizing impact, which is this idea that I call fishing where the fish are, and business is so much easier if you're fishing where the fish are. David F: 03:59 So here's how you figure out where the fish are. I would say regular consultants, they do two by two charts, but we're super sexy here, so we do a sextant chart. You're going to draw a horizontal line, and then instead of bisecting it with one line, you're going to trisect it with two vertical lines. David F: 04:18 So now what you have is sort of six boxes, three on the top, three on the bottom. So that vertical axis is really is the client aware of the problem that you solve? So at the top, you might say yes, all those three boxes at the top are yes. And the three boxes at the bottom are no, they're not aware of the problem that you ... they have the problem. David F: 04:38 They may have the problem, but they're not awa...

Tom DeMarco - a former software litigation consultant - explains what all late software projects have in common. Guest Bio Tom DeMarco is a Principal of The Atlantic Systems Guild, a technology think tank with offices in the United States, Great Britain and Germany. He is the author of ten books on organizational dynamics and the role of technology, plus five novels. His most recent work —just published this month — is a romance, entitled The One-Way Time Traveler. Talking Points Why clients get angry when a project is late Who is to blame when a project is late The real reason for tight deadlines How to respond when a project has an unrealistic deadline How the value of a project affects deadline expectations Why clients initiate projects that offer marginal returns How managers use bad estimates to manipulate employees Why software is so inexpensive these days What distinguishes prosperous software developers from those who are struggling What buyers are actually concerned about other than price Quotable Quotes "I thought all late projects were the same in that they were really estimation failures, not performance failures. I still believe that all late projects are the same, but for an entirely different reason. All projects that finish late have this one thing in common: they started late."—TD "By the 1990s, a significant part of my practice was litigation support, which was a natural consequence of raising my rates to the level that only legal departments could afford."—TD "Being blindsided by the competition—is not software developer failure but that of some marketing arm that got one upped by superior marketers in another company."—TD "If a project offered a value of 10 times its estimated cost, no one would care if the actual cost to get it done were double the estimate."—TD Related Links Tom's Late Projects article Tom's Personal Site The Atlantic Systems Guild Procreate App ----Do you have questions about how to improve your business? Things like:Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to: https://jonathanstark.com/callI hope to see you there!

You know you can't literally buy an hour from someone... so why do you think you can sell an hour to someone? Here's the tweet that inspired this episode: Matt's Tweet Thanks to Matt Olpinski for asking! —J ----Do you have questions about how to improve your business? Things like:Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to: https://jonathanstark.com/callI hope to see you there!

If you hate selling, you're probably doing it wrong. Guest Liston Witherill joins me to change your mind forever about what it means to sell as a consultant. Talking Points Where did the negative feelings about marketing and sales come from? How can you sell without selling? What you can do to relax in the sales process Why persuasion has no place in the sales process The importance of listening in the sales process How to have your products and services sell themselves What activities are okay to give away for free and which aren't? What to do if you find yourself in a terrible client relationship Liston's Bio Liston Witherill helps consultants sell their expertise with confidence by creating sales programs that produce predictable results. He's a coach and trainer who works with consultants, business owners, and their teams to take proactive control over their revenue. You can read his writing and watch his videos at liston.io. Links Liston's website Liston's LinkedIn Value Pricing Bootcamp ----Do you have questions about how to improve your business? Things like:Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to: https://jonathanstark.com/callI hope to see you there!

Thinking of monetizing your expertise by creating an online software training course? Don't make these three classic blunders. Lessons Learned Building My First Online Software Course with guest Chris Buecheler Today I'm joined by guest Chris Buecheler to talk about a few of the hard lessons he learned creating his first online software course, Five Minute React. Chris' Bio Christopher Buecheler is a self-taught web developer with over 20 years of professional experience. He's worked as a developer for a variety of internet companies. He founded CloseBrace because he loves tech and wanted to share his knowledge with other developers. "I believe you can learn Node, Express, React, or anything else you'd like, and I want to help you do it!" —Chris Buecheler Talking Points Using version locking to future-proof your course Building the example app before writing the education materials Knowing how much to material to cover in a single course Links closebrace.com fiveminutereact.com expressjscheatsheet.com jsquickhits.com ----Do you have questions about how to improve your business? Things like:Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to: https://jonathanstark.com/callI hope to see you there!

Guest Adam Aronson joins me to discuss the feasibility of value pricing for firms. Adam's Bio Adam is the founder and principle of FileMaker development firm FullCity Consulting. Since 2000, FullCity has serviced clients like ESPN, the NY Rangers, and the WWE. Earlier in his career, he managed FileMaker database systems for advertising and television production at Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia and provided 24/7 personal technology support for Ms. Stewart and her executive team. Adam managed the IT side of the advertising department at Toys ‘R Us and was database manager for Bloomingdale’s wedding registry website. Without further ado, here's my interview with Adam Aronson. Enjoy! Links FullCity Consulting Find Your Moose Conference Talking Points Hourly billing is like taxes and fossil fuels; there's just not a better answer out there. There are two very different reasons why clients might ask you how long the project is going to take: They have some actual hard deadline They see time as a proxy for cost Developers are like artists. Would jazz musicians do their best work if you were paying them by the hour? Why do you eat hours on things you think took you too long, but you don't add hours for things you think you finished extra fast? If you're asking the client questions about their business logic or entity relationships in a sales meeting, you're doing it wrong. ----Do you have questions about how to improve your business? Things like:Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to: https://jonathanstark.com/callI hope to see you there!