

The Metrics Brothers (fka SaaS Talk)
Ray Rike & Dave Kellogg
The Metrics Brothers (formerly SaaS Talk with the Metrics Brothers) is hosted by Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike. The Metrics Brothers provides unique insights, strategies, tactics and the metrics that are relevant to Native-AI and B2B software and SaaS companies.Each 20-minute episode will cover a topic critical to leading a B2B software company, and chalked full of practical advice that can be introduced and applied in most Native-AI, Agentic AI and B2B software and SaaS companies.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Dec 17, 2025 • 28min
High Alpha SaaS Benchmarks 2025 Report
Dive into a riveting analysis of the 2025 SaaS Benchmark Report, where hosts explore intriguing findings on AI's impact on growth. Companies with AI at their core soar with a median growth of 110%, while those using it as a tool lag behind. The conversation highlights a shift toward lean teams yielding impressive revenue per employee figures due to automation. Venture funding is rebounding, but heavily favoring AI startups, and hybrid work models are proving more effective than remote ones. Expect sharp insights on the correlation versus causation debate as well!

Dec 12, 2025 • 41min
Expansion ARR and NRR in a Variable Pricing Environment - Part 2
This discussion dives into the complexities of measuring NRR and expansion in a variable pricing landscape. The hosts argue that traditional ARR metrics are no longer reliable and advocate for using spend and usage data as indicators of revenue health. They explore how to calculate implied ARR and explain the significance of longer measurement intervals to smooth out volatility. Insights into customer behaviors reveal the importance of sequential expansion and accurate churn prediction, reshaping how companies approach financial forecasting.

9 snips
Dec 5, 2025 • 22min
Calculating NRR in Usage- and Outcome-based Pricing
Dive into the complexities of calculating Net Revenue Retention (NRR) in variable pricing environments. Discover the importance of NRR as a key metric for SaaS companies and its correlation with revenue valuation. Learn about different methods to estimate Annual Recurring Revenue (ARR) and the pitfalls of reliance on traditional proxies. Explore the innovative 'Snowflake Method' for a more accurate cohort-based analysis, which helps mitigate variability in usage-driven revenue. Tune in for insights that clarify the intricacies of modern pricing strategies!

23 snips
Nov 26, 2025 • 26min
The 2025 State of B2B GTM Report
Dive into the evolving world of B2B go-to-market strategies with insights from 195 leaders. The discussion pinpoints the 'pipeline crisis' and the struggle to scale effective GTM motions. Discover the chaos of too many channels, alongside a spotlight on the most impactful strategies like intimate events and LinkedIn. Learn why Answer Engine Optimization is critical for future success, and check out cutting-edge GTM tools set to revolutionize the landscape. It's a fascinating exploration of what truly works in today's market!

10 snips
Nov 20, 2025 • 22min
A New Agentic AI Metric: Containment Rate
Explore the emerging metric of Containment Rate, which measures how many tasks an AI agent completes independently. Discover how it differs from the traditional deflection rate and why precise definitions of 'resolved' are crucial. The hosts dive into the importance of connecting this metric to ROI, highlighting both benefits and investments. They also share benchmarks across various sectors and discuss the future of AI agents alongside customer portals. With humor and insight, they offer valuable recommendations for maximizing AI efficiency.

12 snips
Nov 12, 2025 • 25min
The Air Street State of AI Report 2025
Dive into a comprehensive analysis of Air Street Capital's 2025 State of AI Report, exploring top predictions like AI agents managing ad spend and the rise of AI-driven scientific discoveries. The hosts discuss the implications of open-sourcing models for government favor and the geopolitical landscape shaping AI development. Notable trends include AI's role in presidential politics, the emergence of 'AI neutrality' in foreign policy, and local political consequences of datacenter NIMBYism. This insightful discussion unveils how AI is transforming business models and global power dynamics.

11 snips
Nov 5, 2025 • 24min
AI Agents Winning Hearts and Wallets, A New Report from G2
Discover how AI Agents are revolutionizing enterprise operations. The hosts explore the latest G2 report, revealing that healthcare and retail are leading in adoption. Learn how these agents increase efficiency while reducing the need for human input, and dive into the significance of the new 'containment rate' metric. The conversation highlights fast time-to-value, with many businesses seeing tangible results within six months. Get insights into the shift from GenAI spending to practical applications, all aimed at driving real business outcomes.

35 snips
Oct 29, 2025 • 22min
What is ROI and Why Does it Matter in AI Software Investments?
Dive into the fascinating world of ROI as it relates to AI software investments! The hosts break down ROI's definition and its importance in the current tech landscape. Discover how to distinguish between soft and hard benefits and why focusing on productivity is crucial. They also tackle the age-old build versus buy dilemma, highlighting hidden costs in both options. Multi-year ROI models and the value of look-back reviews are discussed, emphasizing why these practices can enhance decision-making. Perfect for anyone exploring AI investments!

9 snips
Oct 23, 2025 • 23min
9-9-6: What is Means and Why Everyone is Talking About It
Explore the intriguing culture of 9-9-6, defined as working from 9 AM to 9 PM six days a week, especially in AI software. Delve into its origins and current discussions among tech leaders and media. Discover whether this grind is driven by founder pressure or genuine culture and why it resurfaces during major industry shifts. Hear personal anecdotes from the dot-com era, and learn why winning matters more than the grind itself, alongside insights on market leadership and strategic growth opportunities.

18 snips
Oct 16, 2025 • 25min
The Forward-Deployed Engineer
Explore the innovative role of Forward-Deployed Engineers, who tackle complex customer issues while embedded in companies. Discover how their military origins shape this position and set them apart from traditional consultants. Dive into the impact of classifying FDE expenses on key financial metrics like gross margin. With rising demand in AI-driven environments, these engineers are becoming crucial for building application logic tailored to customer needs. Tune in for valuable insights into the future of engineering in tech!


