The Metrics Brothers (fka SaaS Talk)

The State of Generative AI in the Enterprise 2025In this episode of The Metrics Brothers, Ray Rike and Dave Kellogg break down the 2025 State of Generative AI in the Enterprise report from Menlo Ventures and explain what the data really says about where enterprise AI adoption is accelerating and where the market is consolidating.The headline takeaway: AI software is scaling faster than any software category in history. Enterprise AI spend has exploded from roughly $1.7B in 2023 to nearly $37B in 2025, reaching scale in just three years. This revenue milestone took SaaS more than 15 years to achieve. Foundational models now represent the single largest area of spend, highlighting how infrastructure and model access remain core to enterprise AI strategies.Ray and Dave also explore a major strategic shift inside the enterprise: buy is decisively beating build. In 2025, 76% of enterprise AI solutions are purchased rather than built internally, up sharply from 53% the year prior. Rapid model evolution, ongoing retraining costs, and model drift are making internal AI development far more expensive to maintain than many teams originally expected.One of the most surprising findings is on go-to-market efficiency. AI software pilots convert to production at nearly twice the rate of traditional software, with roughly 47% of AI pilots reaching production versus about 25% for conventional enterprise software. This runs counter to recent narratives suggesting enterprise AI pilots are stalling and points to clearer ROI and faster time-to-value.The episode also dives into what Menlo calls the first true “AI killer app”: AI-assisted coding. Coding tools now account for more than half of departmental AI spend, with over 50% of developers already using AI coding assistants and adoption exceeding 65% among top-quartile teams. Real-world examples show meaningful productivity gains, including double-digit increases in development velocity and significant time savings during legacy system upgrades.Industry-wise, healthcare emerges as the largest buyer of vertical AI, representing 43% of vertical AI spend. This is notable given healthcare’s historically lower IT spend as a percentage of revenue. Much of the value is coming from administrative automation such as medical scribing, where AI directly reduces non-clinical workload and unlocks meaningful productivity gains for care providers.Finally, Ray and Dave examine the shifting competitive landscape among foundation model providers. Anthropic has surged to roughly 40% share of enterprise AI usage, up dramatically from prior years, while OpenAI’s share has declined as Google continues to gain traction. The discussion centers on focus versus breadth and why enterprise positioning and reliability may matter more than consumer mindshare.Key takeaways from the episode:AI software is the fastest-scaling software category everEnterprises are rapidly moving from build to buyAI pilots convert to production at nearly 2x traditional softwareAI coding is emerging as the first true enterprise AI killer appAnthropic’s enterprise focus is translating into meaningful market share gainsIf you care about how AI adoption actually translates into spend, productivity, and competitive advantage inside large organizations, this episode is a must-listen.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The podcast takes a deep dive into the viral claim that "95% of AI projects fail". Hosts analyze the MIT NANDA report, revealing inconsistencies and methodological flaws. They discuss how failure is defined and why many early-stage projects are misclassified. The conversation highlights the rise of Shadow AI, challenges with workflow integration, and the impact of fear-driven narratives. The hosts also emphasize measuring AI success by business value rather than project counts, shedding light on productivity's hidden impacts.

Brand vs Demand: Why B2B Marketing Is Stuck in a Measurement TrapIn this episode of The Metrics Brothers, Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike tackle one of the most persistent and controversial questions in B2B marketing: Brand vs. Demand.The discussion is grounded in new data from the 2026 B2B Brand vs Demand Benchmark Report. While most marketing teams say they believe brand and demand are complementary, the numbers tell a more complicated story.Today’s reality?Marketing budgets are still heavily skewed toward short-term demand generation, with roughly 70% of spend allocated to demand and only ~25% to brand. Yet when asked how they want to invest, marketing leaders overwhelmingly say they’d prefer a much more balanced future, closer to 50% demand and 40% brand.So why the disconnect?Ray and Dave dig into the root cause: measurement.Demand generation is tied to metrics CFOs understand like pipeline dollars, opportunities, and ARR. Brand, on the other hand, is still largely measured using proxy metrics like website traffic and awareness, leaving many executives unable to confidently link brand investments to revenue outcomes. Only 28% of companies say they can directly tie brand activity to pipeline, and when budgets are cut, brand is sacrificed five times more often than demand.The episode also explores:Why performance marketing struggles are pushing CMOs back toward brandThe growing inefficiency of demand spend aimed at “future buyers”How much of the “demand” budget is effectively unmeasured brand spendThe dangerous gap between belief in brand and proof of impactWhy AEO, AI search, and LLM visibility will make brand ROI even harder and more urgent to measureRay and Dave don’t just highlight the findings, they discuss the reality of Chief Marketing Officers making the Brand vs Demand budget allocation trade-offs.One key takeaway? Until brand investments can be credibly connected to pipeline efficiency, win rates, and ARR, it will remain more a faith-based investment instead of a financial one the CFOs understand.If you’re a CMO trying to defend brand spend, or a CFO trying to understand where marketing dollars truly drive growth, this episode is required listening.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dive into intriguing insights from the Tidemark Vertical & SMB SaaS Benchmark Report. Discover the significance of 'control points' in SaaS growth and the surprising nuances around multi-product strategies. Explore why fintech, especially payments, remains a key player in expansion. Unpack the rapid rise of AI in Vertical SaaS and debate if it's truly a performance enhancer or just table stakes. With data-driven critiques, the hosts challenge popular narratives, making this a must-listen for anyone in the SaaS space.

In this episode of The Metrics Brothers, Ray Rike and Dave Kellogg unpack Benedict Evans’ latest landmark presentation, AI Eats the World, and explore why this moment may rival or even surpass the original “software is eating the world” era. Drawing parallels to Marc Andreessen’s 2011 thesis, they examine how AI is no longer just another platform shift, but a force capable of reshaping labor, capital allocation, and entire industries at once.The conversation spans the explosive rise in AI infrastructure spending, from hyperscaler capex surging past $400B to the growing strain on power, compute, and supply chains. Ray and Dave discuss why this moment feels different from past tech cycles, not just because of scale, but because AI directly targets labor, which represents more than half of global GDP. They explore whether AI is creating real moats or accelerating commoditization, and why many enterprises are still stuck in experimentation rather than true deployment.The episode also dives into historical parallels from elevators and telephone operators to cloud computing highlighting how software enabled automation always feels threatening before it quietly becomes invisible. Along the way, they unpack the strategic tension facing AI leaders: go down the stack for scale or up the stack for value capture. With insights on hyperscalers, OpenAI, Oracle, and the economics of AI adoption, this episode challenges leaders to rethink how value will actually be created and captured in the age of AI.If you want to understand what’s hype, what’s durable, and why “AI eating the world” may be the most consequential shift since the internet itself, this episode is a must-listen.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dive into a riveting analysis of the 2025 SaaS Benchmark Report, where hosts explore intriguing findings on AI's impact on growth. Companies with AI at their core soar with a median growth of 110%, while those using it as a tool lag behind. The conversation highlights a shift toward lean teams yielding impressive revenue per employee figures due to automation. Venture funding is rebounding, but heavily favoring AI startups, and hybrid work models are proving more effective than remote ones. Expect sharp insights on the correlation versus causation debate as well!

This discussion dives into the complexities of measuring NRR and expansion in a variable pricing landscape. The hosts argue that traditional ARR metrics are no longer reliable and advocate for using spend and usage data as indicators of revenue health. They explore how to calculate implied ARR and explain the significance of longer measurement intervals to smooth out volatility. Insights into customer behaviors reveal the importance of sequential expansion and accurate churn prediction, reshaping how companies approach financial forecasting.

Dive into the complexities of calculating Net Revenue Retention (NRR) in variable pricing environments. Discover the importance of NRR as a key metric for SaaS companies and its correlation with revenue valuation. Learn about different methods to estimate Annual Recurring Revenue (ARR) and the pitfalls of reliance on traditional proxies. Explore the innovative 'Snowflake Method' for a more accurate cohort-based analysis, which helps mitigate variability in usage-driven revenue. Tune in for insights that clarify the intricacies of modern pricing strategies!

Dive into the evolving world of B2B go-to-market strategies with insights from 195 leaders. The discussion pinpoints the 'pipeline crisis' and the struggle to scale effective GTM motions. Discover the chaos of too many channels, alongside a spotlight on the most impactful strategies like intimate events and LinkedIn. Learn why Answer Engine Optimization is critical for future success, and check out cutting-edge GTM tools set to revolutionize the landscape. It's a fascinating exploration of what truly works in today's market!

Explore the emerging metric of Containment Rate, which measures how many tasks an AI agent completes independently. Discover how it differs from the traditional deflection rate and why precise definitions of 'resolved' are crucial. The hosts dive into the importance of connecting this metric to ROI, highlighting both benefits and investments. They also share benchmarks across various sectors and discuss the future of AI agents alongside customer portals. With humor and insight, they offer valuable recommendations for maximizing AI efficiency.