This week’s guest, Annette Gabriel, is enthusiastic about helping leaders and teams adopt higher performance practices. Annette is a former Senior Director of Human Resources at Pepsico. Barry O’Reilly describes her as “one of the people who just shines when you hear her stories.” Annette and Barry discuss the framework of agility, and how to let teams lead. Agility Mindset Leaders who adopt an agility mindset are eager to explore the world around them. Annette says that she views each job as a learning opportunity and a new experience whether she ends up liking it or not. Barry comments that trying and even failing is part of the process: you just have to recalibrate when things don’t go as you planned. If more people adopted an agility mindset, they would be open to trying new ways of working.  Unlearning Moments Barry asks Annette to relate some of the mistakes she made along the way, and what she had to unlearn. “Trying to do too much at once whilst still trying to influence the leadership layer of the company,” she begins. She gives an anecdote of going at the leadership layer with working programs that failed because they were too complicated. She was still learning the programs while trying to share and develop them, so she should have taken more time to fully understand them before presenting to company leaders. Barry comments that leaders often find it hard to just get out of the way and let front line staff have more authority. However, when they start to see the values and principles come to life and the positive outcomes of them, it becomes easier for them to trust the process. Being Agile “There is no one way to be agile,” Annette remarks. “Being agile is actually pivoting and adjusting for what you need at that moment, at that time based upon what you've learned, what information you've gathered and what you've learned from testing,” she continues. It’s a common misconception that processes have to be standardized to be successful, Barry comments. A better approach is a localized one: focus on equipping teams to adapt based on the context. First Follower Concept “A champion can bring [the team] along a lot more quickly if you give that champion the license to take the team through [training],” Annette says. She advocates the importance of ‘first followers’. “A first follower,” Annette explains, “is that champion who is going to make the extra time investment and go deeper on things, when they try to pull a group into an exercise or facilitate a discussion.” She reiterates that these individuals are influential in reaching more people and bringing them onto the new plans and directions the organization may take. The Team Leads The Way Barry expresses that at times senior level management believe that they have all the answers and that this can create challenges within the organization. He adds that processes designed to make things work often keeps progress back because those processes rely on one or two people signing off a document. It is better to empower the hundreds of frontline workers - who deal with the issues and know what exactly the problems are - to come up with the solutions. Annette agrees and adds that a well-constructed team with all the right capabilities will be experts at resolving issues. Looking Ahead Not knowing what’s ahead is what excites Annette the most. She’s looking forward to her ‘next great learning experience.’ Her advice to leaders who may be struggling with unlearning: play along and see what happens, you may not always like the result but it will always be a learning experience. Resources Annette Gabriel on LinkedIn

Welcome to the Unlearn Podcast’s second Ask Me Anything, something that is fast becoming an annual tradition. This episode is a kind of retrospective, a chance to not only answer questions from listeners all over the world but a chance to reflect on the year that has happened - the challenges as well as the opportunities.  Here’s to 2021 – and now, 10 answers to 10 questions. ·    What has been the most important characteristic that has helped you lead through COVID? ·    As a leader, what advice would you give your younger self for managing such an accelerated period of change? ·    What was the biggest shift for you personally in your approach to leadership this year? ·    What are the key traits and habits that leaders need to adopt to lead in this new world of work? ·    You often talk about collaboration fit — can you elaborate on it? ·    What’s been your most interesting video conference experience in 2020? ·    What are your principles of work? ·    What one change have you made to help you for 2021 and beyond? ·    What’s the most interesting research you’ve discovered this year? ·    What’s your favorite book you read this year? Further Listening: Role Modeling Culture Transformation with Christian Metzner Product Management For Large Scale Innovation with Secil Tabli Watson Help Others Win with Steven Leist Resources: How to be an Anti-Racist Strong Towns

Steven Leist is the Vice President for Customer Technology at American Airlines, the world’s largest airline. He is a technology leader who is intentional about creating a culture that cares for his team members. Barry and Steven discuss building employee relationships, becoming better leaders, and developing culture within organizations in this week’s Unlearn Podcast. Helping Others Win at Work Over time, Steven has adopted the concept of helping others win at work. He tells Barry that it comes down to people within an organization, and stresses the importance of culture as the driving force behind his leadership. Helping others win changes people's mindset. "I think some of the challenges we hear at times are that folks feel constrained by policies, and so we worked really hard to try to listen to our frontline employees and really try to put them in a situation where they can actually help the customer," Steven comments. He tells Barry that he had to unlearn how to let go as a leader, and that he did not have to be the smartest person in the room. Thinking Big and Starting Small One of the challenges many companies have is that they think big but don’t start small. Steven shares an example where he and his team became frustrated with a project at work because they thought big and started big to complete it faster. He expresses that this is a common management issue "because they have to see the big picture and they've got to get the revenue results". The pandemic allowed American Airlines to pivot and start attacking the new problems presented by it, within the parameters of thinking big and starting small. "I think this capability and mindset - and behavior really - you've built of thinking big but starting small, means teams are constituting small things, and there's opportunities for leaders to see small progress, small steps, small mistakes and then course correct and grow into these bigger solutions that have profound impact across your company," Barry remarks. Trust Culture Barry asks Steven to give some advice to persons wishing to embark on the journey of building culture within an organization. "You have to have a culture that's built on trust," Steven answers. It’s important to have leaders who are willing to step up and advocate for the team, he adds. Leaders should also be humble enough to let the team figure out their own way of handling problems such as including them in decision making and helping them build camaraderie. Another key factor is having the right relationship with the right business partners. Taking all these steps can develop the trust culture within the organization. Looking Ahead American Airlines is moving towards better product management and building a stewardship concept in terms of how product management is done. Steven believes it is vital to continue the dialogue on diversity and inclusion and bring in new perspectives to enrich the company’s culture. He wants employees to be better connected to their customers and have direct feedback with them. Resources Steven Leist on LinkedIn  Steven Leist on Twitter

Sara Wood is the CEO of Kaluza. She is a product leader, non-executive board member and a “builder at heart” who has even helped the UK with its Covid systems. Barry O’Reilly welcomes Sara to this week’s show as they discuss changing technology and the effects of the pandemic on the energy sector. Transitioning Across Domains Sara’s wide-ranging experience has enabled her to go from place to place through the lens of “what is interesting here, what’s interesting about the technology there”. She is essentially “a builder at heart”, she says. Barry asks her what advice she would give to someone who wants to transition from one domain to another. She responds,  “I think the combination of really being curious about the world around you, about where technology is going, and adaptable to what you find on the other side of that.” The Platform Play and Supply Chain Sara learned supply chain in the fashion industry at Gap. She moved to Farfetch because she was impressed with that company’s platform play, particularly the impact it would have on supply chain. At Kaluza, she sees technology and data as the platform that would enable the transition in the energy industry. What we do now with regard to the climate crisis will inform the future, she points out. She laments that the existing data and technology is not being put to use as they should be. To her, she tells Barry, a platform approach is about “how do we empower people in their homes who are just living a normal life to both understand how they participate in the energy ecosystem and adapt behavior?” She finds that using the technology and data to empower customers and give them more choices is fueling demand for sustainable energy. Platform Thinking Trends and data that exists within the teams she works with, are all information Sara pools together into her platform. Barry applauds this “platform thinking.” Sara says that she jumps into a new industry with a fair amount of curiosity. She believes that product leaders who adopt this mental model are the “CEOs of the future” and are building a system to “create conditions for success.” Her teams have since adopted her approach. Going Remote As a platform technology company, going remote due to the pandemic was relatively easy for Kaluza. The company’s pace of growth has continued. Additionally, during the lockdown, Kaluza was able to fully migrate one of its customers into its newly updated platform. Pride of Work People need to feel connected to the job that they’re doing. For example, Barry says, the workers at Tesco light up when they see how they’re able to help customers. Small acts of kindness and recognition can have a great effect, and leaders should ensure that their teams are able to see the benefits of their hard work. Looking Ahead  Sara is looking forward to applying her skills and experience to making energy simple, cheap and safe. She is anticipating that the world would rely less on things that are damaging to the environment. Resources Sara Wood on LinkedIn

Barry O’Reilly welcomes Rick Weil onto this week’s show. Rick Weil is a Head of Global Product and Analytics at Amazon. He started off as an officer in the U.S. Marine Corps, then worked at General Dynamics and Microsoft before his current position at Amazon. Rick and Barry discuss key human-centered approaches to unlocking team motivation and performance. [Listen from 00:34] A Positive Culture “When you can create this culture where everybody wants to help each other towards a shared goal, you've unlocked some incredible opportunities for performance,” Rick comments. He is focused on creating a positive culture in his working environment where peers selflessly help each other excel versus competing with each other. He stresses taking time to listen to his employees and their concerns, as well as deliberately stepping back at times to let team members address challenges on their own. This is especially important when managing ‘managers of managers’ and dealing with internal conflict. [Listen from 6:51] 360° Feedback Barry asks Rick some of the things he noticed about himself that have evolved over time. One of the many things Rick has learned at Amazon is the power of “taking check x-rays” and using 360° feedback to identify leadership patterns to pay attention to. This helps us know what levers to pull to improve team culture and performance. Rick also talks about the importance and power of genuinely caring for people in the workplace over following scripted leadership behaviors. “Just because I can read all these books on leadership and follow the recipe doesn't make me a good leader,” Rick comments. As a leader you need to find ways to effectively sense how your teams are doing at the human level and connect the personal needs and motivations of your team to business goals to drive organizational change. “Mission First, People Always”, Rick says. [Listen from 14:00] Leadership and Relationships Being a transformational leader is rooted in building strong relationships with the people you lead and work with. One way to do this is through intentional question asking. We often use questioning to assess the health of work operations, yet the true power (and intrinsic leadership fulfillment) comes from getting to know people at the human level, teaching, developing, and being part of your teams’ career journeys. Ask how your team members are doing (and mean it). Get to know about their aspirations and what’s important to them. And for leaders where this genuine, human-centered approach may not come natural, Rick urges them to give caring a try. “Care about people. That will change your perspective, it'll impact your mindset,” Rick expresses. When you look at leadership as a platform for positive human impact and not as a position of individual power, it changes the way that you think about life and work, and directly correlates with the performance of your team. [Listen from 21:00] Looking Ahead Barry asks Rick what he’s looking forward to. He responds that he is looking forward to his partnership with the Project Management Institute (PMI) and developing a product, called Kickoff, which is an intuitive, web-based guide to project management. There are so many resources available for project and program management practitioners, but few for non-PMs who need to know how to better get project work done, essentially to know PM “as a skill”. Kickoff starts with basics, includes helpful templates and examples, and is aimed at helping individuals get acquainted with the fundamentals of project management. This product has the potential to fundamentally enhance how work gets done for millions of people, from students putting together class projects to start-ups creating new products and support functions tenured PMs who need project support from other, non-PM team members [Listen from 33:58]. Resources Rick Weil on LinkedIn

Barry O’Reilly is pleased to welcome Secil Tabli Watson, Executive Vice President for Digital Solutions for Business at Wells Fargo. In this week’s show, Barry chats with Secil about the techniques she uses to drive innovation in both retail and business banking environments. She shares the lessons she unlearned in the process and how to bring product management principles into a large organization in a way that drives innovation. First Lesson: Speak The Customer’s Language Secil’s first assignment as a digital channel manager 18 years ago was to make Wellsfargo.com into a buying site. She focused on language that was customer-focused, rather than the bank-centric. “We brought in the capabilities and the competency of doing user research and understanding customer tasks and understanding their behaviors and motivators and really putting that into the language,” she says. In addition, they transformed the architecture of the website so that it was more customer driven. [Listen from 1:55] Staff People to Outcomes Not Products If you’re struggling to move from project-based teams to outcome-based ones, Secil advises that you reframe how you think. This was a critical unlearning for her, she remarks. She shares an example of how she recast her thinking about a project from product to outcome, as a result of which her team was able to see themselves as responsible for a broader outcome, and partner with other departments to make it happen. She advises listeners to break the project into phases with quick wins, and gives insight into how to create cross-functional teams with as little awkwardness as possible. “If you ask a little bit at a time from people, they're more willing to help,” she points out. [Listen from 6:50] B2B Customer Relationships Are Deeper Businesses with B2B customers can develop deeper relationships with them. Because their B2B customers are fewer in number, Secil says, they are able to communicate on a more intimate level over a longer period of time. She asks her B2B customers, “How do you feel?” because it elicits deeper answers. “And I'm also then able to ask the question, Why?” Secil remarks. “I can ask the question as many times as I want to try to get down to a deeper meaning and a deeper need or a desire or a business problem that the customer may be having.” She and Barry discuss why co-creating with your customers - as counterintuitive as the idea appears - is their favored approach. “It builds more trust and actually derisks more of your relationship,” Barry comments. [Listen from 15:20] It Only Takes 10 “...it doesn't take more than 10 people to do things but you have to get the right 10 people,” Secil argues. Her job, as she sees it, is to figure out what to do differently so she can identify those 10 people quickly in her large organization environment. Barry comments that if more companies adopt this approach they would see greater success. [Listen from 29:35] OKRs are not for Compensation Secil and Barry agree that while measuring performance is important, performance metrics should not be tied to compensation, as pay for performance inhibits innovation. Secil believes that the team should win together and learn together; they should not compete against one another. “There is nothing more we could do to make a better team other than enable them to learn,” she says. [Listen from 36:00] Looking Ahead Secil is excited about the current trend to apply product management principles and skills in atypical areas, such as for thinking through outcomes and tactics for diversity and inclusion efforts. Barry comments, “I think everybody can take these principles and methods and apply them to build better experiences for people.” [Listen from 43:35] Resources Secil Tabli Watson on LinkedIn

This week’s guest is a leader who role models change. Christian Metzner is Chief Information Officer (CIO) at Volkswagen Financial Services UK. Barry O’Reilly describes him as someone who is “constantly staying curious and getting outside his comfort zone; and you only have to spend time with him and his team to realize how much his actions inspire others.” Christian and Barry discuss the role of leadership in inspiring organizational culture.   Initiating Change Christian has learned to step out of his comfort zone and reflect on what other leaders and cultures are doing better. Emphasizing that the one with power needs to initiate the change, he says, “If you are the one in the position with the power, then you need to open up first. You can’t expect others to change if you’re not leading the way.” Hacking Culture Innovation is often the result of challenging yourself and pushing your boundaries. “You don't come to innovation if you only go one mile faster every day,” Christian points out. “You have to push boundaries... Try to find the 5% to 10% where you can challenge your behaviors, where you can challenge people who might be stuck in their thinking.” He advocates using cultural hacks - low effort steps that can be implemented quickly, but which have high emotional impact - and shares examples of cultural hacks that he successfully implemented. Barry comments that these small changes often create ripple effects throughout an organization. Being a Leader “My simple understanding of leadership is... to remove your blockers and to make you better on a day-to-day basis.” Christian sees learning from competitors and his team as key to creating a culture of innovation: an environment where everyone is on the same playing field. “IT is - next to the capital market - the single biggest threat to an organization like ours,” he points out. “And we need to get our job... absolutely right to enable our commercial colleagues to come up with great products and services for our real end customers.” Trade-offs in Decision-Making Barry commends Christian’s ability to take “a little bit of information and make a decision and then getting more information…” He asks Christian to describe his process and the trade-offs of this approach. Christian responds that transparency, engagement, and iterating in short cycles are the key elements in this approach. The current crisis demands different behaviors, he argues. “We’re not playing the game big fish against small fish anymore,” he says. “We're playing big fish against fast fish, and that requires a different behavior.”  Build Systems Around People “It's less the individual [than] the systems and the structures that are in place to help them succeed,” Barry comments. “If more companies started to recognize that they’re designing systems around people to make them successful… that’s a massive transformation that... would have a huge impact on their company.” “Let's bring people into a role where they can flourish, where they are allowed to bring in their strengths,” Christian adds. Looking Ahead Christian says that he wrote a framework in the early days of the COVID crisis that has guided the company’s decision-making. The framework focuses on three dimensions: decisiveness, simple communication, and taking care of one another. He speaks of dealing with the pandemic in phases: they are entering the phase of renewing the company, so they are using what they learned in the previous phases to inform their approach. In particular, he is excited about how the company will maintain pace and flexibility so that they can provide the best possible customer experience. Resources Christian Metzner on LinkedIn

Katie Anderson is a leadership coach consultant and author, best known for inspiring individuals and organizations. She started off in public health research then moved to Japan in 2015. Barry O’Reilly welcomes her to the show as she shares the lessons she learned in Japan on how to deepen your leadership skill. Learning Lean at the Source Her life in Japan inspired Katie to learn lean at the source as she had already been applying Toyota production principles in the healthcare system. Moving away from academia and research was her big pivot as she transitioned from public health into her own consulting practice. [Listen from 2:30] Leading With Intention Katie advocates leading with intention and orienting your actions in the direction of the behaviour that will achieve your desired purpose. Now that she was in a position where she had to help other people solve problems, she realized that her mindset and approach needed to shift. She needed to show up in a different capacity: she had to be a model and guide instead of simply going in and doing it all on her own. [Listen from 6:25] Effective Leadership Role People need alignment: they need to know what the target of the organization is in order to meet that target. If leaders don’t have clarity on what the target is, it is unlikely that the employees will. Barry comments that if employees don’t know what direction has been set by leaders, that’s a failure of the leadership team. You can have activity without vision, but not in a meaningful direction. [Listen from 13:00] Hoshin As a Tool Hoshin is about identifying the top strategies in the organization, and how the next level down contributes to achieving those strategies. It is anchored in the scientific method, and a deep process of reflection. It provides the organization with the real data, whether positive or negative and allows for the leadership team to make better and accurate decisions based on that data. [Listen from 21:45] Looking Ahead Katie is looking forward to hearing listeners’ reflections on her stories and experiences. She is excited to continue to amplify her message. She is also committed to continue helping individuals connect with their intention and their purpose, in order to achieve their desired goals. [Listen from 34:25] Resources KBJAnderson.com

Daniel Elizalde is the VP and head of IoT for North America at Ericsson. He’s spent more than 20 years working in industries, from manufacturing to aerospace and energy. Today, Daniel also teaches courses on the decision framework that he’s created. Barry O’Reilly welcomes Daniel to this week’s show to discuss how much the concepts of IoT have changed, and the impact of technology on the current world. The Evolution of IoT Once Daniel learnt of the IoT concept and recognized it in the way he did his work, he started cataloguing and creating frameworks and approaches. With the advancement of technology, you can now plot a system of sensor data points on a graph, which would have taken a year to put together previously. The advancement of technology also led to the scaling back of employees and time. Daniel encourages adapting the product psyche and learning what you can do today so that you can take advantage of the technological curve in the future. [Listen from 1:50] Looking the Other Way Around “Building relationships is the most important part to get things done,” Daniel says. Barry parallels the IoT system with the people working in a well-functioning unit: the technological idea and the people idea is what drives the performance. Daniel talks about introducing new ways of application to Ericsson, and helping the company to unlearn some of its long held strategies to adapt to the current times. Daniel says he’s always looking the other way around to determine feasibility and what the customers really want. [Listen from 15:00] Building Capability Driving results, for Daniel, involves discovery and getting more projects from other units in order to apply their concepts to Ericsson. Daniel describes what has worked for him in terms of expanding technology in the company. He discusses monetizing 5G networks as they emerge, focusing on customers’ problems and adding value. “Your capability is the knowledge you’re accumulating in your organization, and making good decisions based on what you’re learning,” Barry comments. [Listen from 23:25] Looking Ahead Daniel is excited to see how 5G is applied in the coming years and how it will level the technological playing field. He is looking forward to individuals being able to build on 5G just like the Internet. He is also looking forward to seeing the things people had talked about ten years ago becoming a reality in the not too distant future. [Listen from 41:05] Resources Daniel Elizalde on LinkedIn Daniel’s blog & podcast: danielelizalde.com  D-15 IoT Studio at Ericsson: https://www.ericsson.com/en/about-us/experience-centers/d-fifteen/d-15-iot-studio

Diana Stepner is the VP for Product Management of Innovative Learning Solutions at Pearson. She enjoys building product experiences that customers love as well as weaving innovation, experimentation, and technology into actionable product visions and roadmaps that accelerate growth. Barry O’Reilly welcomes Diana to this week’s show as they discuss finding her voice and why a product management approach to leadership is valuable in these times. Finding Her Voice Barry comments, “We often figure out what we want to do as we do things and learn our way through them.” Diana explains that she had to unlearn the notion that a leader must be the loudest person in the room and know all the answers. A point from an article she read - that great leaders spend more time listening and asking questions than talking and giving answers - helped her realize that her natural leadership style was indeed valid. Encouraging others to contribute, bringing people into the conversation who might not have felt comfortable to speak before, was the right way for her. The Power of Pausing Pausing to think, to process and analyze information before responding, helps you make better decisions. Diana says that she had to unlearn making snap decisions and jumping to conclusions. “What I've had to do,” she says, “is take a step back when I've got a lot of information that I need to synthesize; to open up more towards other ways of addressing an approach; think about a more broad perspective; and then evaluate a couple of different opportunities initially, test them out and then be able to determine what's the right way to proceed.” Pauses are ok, Barry emphasizes, and we should make more space for them in communication. A Period of Unlearning Many companies are going through a sense of unlearning, Diana says. She and Barry discuss the changes that are happening in companies currently: they are realizing the power of having diverse representation so they are listening more. Diana remarks that those companies that make the effort to have these changes stick will benefit in the long run. “If you don't define the outcome, if you don't make the data available, if you don't look at the reality of what's happening and make changes to move towards the direction you want, nothing is going to change,” Barry adds. While change may be difficult and uncomfortable, good can come from it. Advice for Leaders Barry asks Diana to share advice for leaders who want to adopt her leadership approach. She gives several tips including: Expect change. Learn from those around you. Find ways to empower those you work with. “I think it’s by the creation of a space where people feel comfortable to speak up and to share their voice, where you can truly have a tremendous amount of impact,” she says. Looking Ahead Diana says that she tries to find the good in everything that is happening right now. She is excited to see the acceleration of trends: things that we thought would happen in the future are happening today. More companies are encouraging a culture of experimentation now to get an insight into the future, she says. Barry comments that he is glad that more people are realizing that no one person has all the answers, and that our best bet moving forward is to learn our way through together. Diana hopes that we continue to normalize remote working as the pandemic has proven that we can be productive outside of the workplace. Resources Diana Stepner on LinkedIn