Passle CMO Series Podcast

Law firms are no longer operating in a period of stability; they require momentum. Marketing leaders are expected to evolve alongside the business, retrofitting strategy around lateral growth, proving value through data, and guiding attorneys who are neither new nor at the top.  In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, we’re joined by Kathryn Whitaker, Chief Marketing Officer at Burr & Forman, to explore how her leadership and strategic approach have adapted since her first appearance on the podcast back in 2022.  Kathryn shares insights into how marketing supports opportunistic expansion, the shift toward outcome-driven metrics, and why mid-career attorneys might be the biggest missed opportunity in law firm growth strategy today. Kathryn and Eugene discuss: Law firm growth through strategic scaling Lateral integration to build long-term success The importance of data-driven storytelling to inform decisions AI’s practical impact on efficiency and visibility The underleveraged investment in mid-career attorneys

What does it take to modernise a 450-year-old law firm without losing the legacy that makes it iconic? Charlotte Eberlein, Head of Marketing and Business Development at Thomson Snell & Passmore, has spent over a decade answering that question in real-time. She has built a business development culture from the ground up, brought PR in-house, and helped the firm deliver big law impact on a regional budget.  In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Charlotte joins Will Eke to talk through that journey and the lessons she’s learned along the way. Charlotte and Will cover:  Charlotte’s journey from big law to a regional role at Thomson Snell & Passmore, and the moment business development became her focus The biggest differences and similarities between a regional independent firm and a big law firm How to build a reputation that punches above its weight and delivers big law impact on a leaner budget The history of Thomson Snell & Passmore and how to strike the balance between heritage and keeping the brand modern and relevant How to compete with limited resources, where to focus investment, and what to leave off the table Key projects Charlotte is driving forward right now Advice for others trying to market a regional or mid-sized firm with limited resources

Driving business development in a mid-sized regional firm is rarely about large budgets. It’s about sharp strategy, creativity and the ability to make every action count. In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Kelley Goes, Member and Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Jackson Kelly, joins Alex Haidar to share how her unconventional career path has shaped her bold, practical approach to legal marketing and BD. Kelley’s journey began as a litigator at Akin Gump, moving into public service as West Virginia’s Secretary of Commerce, and later serving as State Operations Director for Joe Manchin. Having been a private practitioner, a public servant, the client and the lawyer to the client, she brings a uniquely rounded perspective to her role at Jackson Kelly. Today, she leads marketing and BD for the firm with a focus on clarity, confidence and doing more with less. She talks openly about defining the right target audiences, supporting lean teams and introducing new tools without losing lawyers along the way. Her leadership philosophy, shaped by years working with high-stakes decision-makers, is grounded in authenticity, accountability and lifting up the people around her. Kelley and Alex discuss: How an unexpected career path from litigation to public office prepared Kelley for legal marketing The leadership lessons she learned working alongside figures like Joe Manchin Why confidence, tight messaging and clear audience targeting matter more than budget Her creative internal BD initiatives and associate-focused engagement How she builds non-traditional teams and bridges creative and legal cultures Practical advice for lean BD and marketing teams wanting to better support their lawyers

For this year’s Thanksgiving edition of the CMO Series Podcast, we bring together an outstanding group of legal marketing leaders to reflect on the people and practices that have shaped their careers. What emerges is a clear and compelling message about the importance of trust, collaboration and shared generosity in building strong marketing teams and firm cultures. Thank you to our special guests for sharing their insights: Angela Pandolfo Roy, Chief Marketing Officer at Gibbons, Maura Brandt, Chief Marketing Officer at Crowell & Moring, Sarah Kempsey, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Montgomery McCracken, Michael Huntsman, Chief Business Development and Marketing Officer at Bilzin Sumberg Baena Price & Axelrod, Phill McGowan, Founder of Phill McGowan Marketing, Alexandra DeFelice, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Jeffer Mangels Butler & Mitchell LLP, Vanessa Crocetto, Chief Marketing Officer at Butzel, Douglas Gold, Chief Operating Officer at Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp LLP, Rebecca Wissler, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Ice Miller, Danielle Wuschke Paige, Chief Marketing and Growth Officer at Nixon Peabody LLP, and Lindsey McReynolds, Chief Client Relations Officer at Schwabe Williamson & Wyatt. Across the episode, they share how firms can build environments where collaboration truly thrives. Creating space for people to contribute, recognising effort, supporting new ideas and giving credit freely all strengthen teams and empower talent to grow. Their reflections remind us that the most successful organisations are built on trust and a genuine willingness to lift others up. It’s a thoughtful and timely conversation for this season of gratitude. Wishing you a wonderful Thanksgiving.  

If you’re a law firm marketer, you know the pressure of balancing attorney demands, limited resources, and the need to stay genuinely strategic. The job is more than execution. It requires sharp prioritization and a steady, trusted voice over time. In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Alex Haidar talks with Jocelyn Brumbaugh, Founder of Builden Partners and legal marketing leader with experience at firms such as Foley & Lardner, Baker McKenzie, and Citadel. She shares practical, process-focused guidance to make marketing effective where it truly counts. They discuss the skills legal marketers need to thrive, from earning attorney loyalty to influencing decisions with confidence and preparing the next generation to succeed. Jocelyn shares: Her inspiring journey into professional services marketing and her own ventures The biggest gaps and challenges currently within legal marketing  Critical skills that junior marketers need to possess Her successful Spark Legal Marketing Masterclass Future opportunities to excel in legal marketing  Advice for CMOs on driving team growth 

Most law firm CMOs agree that cross-selling is the fastest and most cost-effective way to grow law firm revenue. Yet, our latest research shows that 84% of law firms are missing out on these opportunities. The biggest barriers to cross-selling success are awareness and trust. Lawyers need the confidence to refer work which requires trust across teams, and they need visibility into the full scope of the firm’s expertise so they know what their colleagues actually do. That’s where CrossPitch AI comes in. At a recent CMO Series event in London, Connor Kinnear unpacked the challenges, the opportunities, and how AI can help firms finally make cross-selling happen. In this special edition of the CMO Series Podcast, Connor dives deeper into: The ongoing challenge of cross-selling, and why it remains so important How Passle’s CrossPitch AI helps firms connect the dots What’s behind the impressive engagement results clients are seeing How the new Cross-Selling Intelligence Map makes collaboration visible

Making an impact in business development isn’t about following a script; it’s about finding what works, what doesn’t, and where you can really move the needle. Through the power of listening and successful automation strategies, important client relationships can be strengthened.  Today on the Passle CMO Series podcast, Charles is joined by Charlotte Watt, Head of Business Development at Brabners, to hear about her journey from the British Army to BD in the legal sector, and how her early career experiences shaped her people-first and results-driven approach. With nearly two years at the firm, Charlotte shares many key insights that she has learned along the way. From navigating the challenges of stepping into law to developing practical initiatives involving structure, coaching and human touch.  Charlotte and Charles discuss: Charlotte's unique journey into Business Development The initial challenges she faced in her role How she used early career experiences to help her succeed Approaches to avoid in the initial phases Recommendations and initiatives to successfully engage with clients 

Implementing a seamless Content Management System that is able to grow alongside the firm in the long-term should be a top priority within law firms digital strategies. Through extended team collaboration, firms can create a shared vision for suitable future marketing technology, ensuring flexibility and scalability, while also boosting efficiency and SEO.   Today on the Passle CMO Series Digital Masterclass Podcast, we’re diving into CMS for the legal sector, a crucial part of a firm’s marketing and business development toolkit.   Carrie Dyer, Digital Account Director at Appius, a company with deep experience in the legal market, with clients including Freshfields and Ashurst, joins us to discuss how firms can choose the right CMS. Carrie shares her insights on: Appius’ experience and high reputation within the legal market The critical importance of creating an effective CMS Various main CMS platforms and their different offerings The key factors and processes to consider when selecting a CMS Common pitfalls many firms continue to face Her expert takeaways for implementing a successful CMS

Live from the Lex Mundi Americas Regional Marketing and Business Development Roundtable in Denver, this special episode of the CMO Series Podcast dives into Cross-Selling in Practice. Ali Bone is joined by Susan Lee Hollender, Chief Growth Officer at Michael Best & Friedrich, to explore how firms can move from intention to action. Drawing on insights from Passle’s AI & Cross-Selling Report 2025, the conversation unpacks what’s working across the Lex Mundi network, the barriers that hold firms back, and what clients truly want to see. From building trust and awareness to proven approaches and success stories, Susan and Ali discuss the practical lessons and ideas for how firms can make cross-selling easier and more impactful.

In an industry where tradition often outweighs transformation, building trust and influence is the foundation for earning long-term credibility and needs to start from within. In today’s must-listen episode of the CMO Series podcast, Eugene speaks with Jennifer Stokes, Senior Director of Marketing and Business Development at Shipman & Goodwin, to explore her long-awaited insights into the importance of earning trust and credibility internally. With nearly two decades at the firm, Jen brings a unique perspective on what it takes to earn trust in a legacy-driven law firm. From navigating leadership dynamics to championing the role of marketing at the strategic table, Jen has played a key role in reshaping how BD and marketing are perceived and prioritized. Eugene and Jennifer cover: How the role of Marketing has evolved during her 17 years at Shipman & Goodwin Jen’s approach to building internal trust and influence in a relationship-driven industry The value of having strategic thought partnerships Jen’s partnership achievements including cultural and mindset shifts How to build long-term credibility