Manage This - The Project Management Podcast

The podcast by project managers for project managers. Shaping the future of project management is PMI 2023 Future 50 honoree, and our second guest in our "Rising Talent" podcast series, Monique Sekhon. She is a trailblazer making waves both professionally and within her community. As the youngest chapter president in PMI global history, she embodies a passion for giving back to her community. Join us to gain fresh perspectives and valuable insights from one of the industry's brightest talents. Table of Contents 01:56 … Meet Monique04:09 … Path to Public Health07:47 … Monique’s Current Position10:28 … Most Effective Project Management Practices14:36 … Collaboration with Stakeholders19:33 … Kevin and Kyle20:48 … Overcoming Attitudes and Challenges24:36 … PMI Chapter Leadership29:25 … Advice to Younger PMs30:28 … Monique’s Nonprofit Care-2-Share33:49 … Find Out More34:50 … Closing MONIQUE SEKHON: …my job to work with people and talk to people and bring people together who are experts – because I’m definitely not the expert – bring those people together as a project manager into a room to say, okay, these are the priorities.  This is our common goal.….  And this is what we’re trying to achieve.  And then working with all of those people to determine, okay, how are we going to get there?  WENDY GROUNDS:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  I’m your host, Wendy Grounds.  And right here in the studio we’ve got the brains behind the show, Bill Yates.  We take pride in showcasing the remarkable work of rising talent, adding a fresh perspective to the vibrant project management community.  This is the second and final in our current Rising Talent series.  We have an extraordinary guest.  This is a trailblazer making waves in both her professional and community spheres.  Do meet PMI 2023 Future 50 honoree Monique Sekhon.  She’s a dynamic professional with project management in her DNA, as she’s going to explain to us.  She joined the British Columbia Ministry of Health starting as a junior business analyst.  And here she played a pivotal role in the Health Data Platform project, which was a large-scale initiative to enhance the efficiency of health data access for researchers and academics.  She was promoted to senior project management advisor at the age of 22, and today she manages over 45 concurrent complex data projects.  Her impact extends beyond her job.  She’s a volunteer with PMI Vancouver Island Chapter.  And she’s currently the chapter president for the 23-24 chapter year.  She’s also the youngest chapter president in PMI global history. BILL YATES:  That’s impressive. WENDY GROUNDS:  Very much so.  So we’re excited to talk to Monique today.  Hi, Monique.  Welcome to Manage This.  Thank you for joining us. MONIQUE SEKHON:  Thank you for having me.  I’m so excited to be here. Meet Monique WENDY GROUNDS:  We are looking forward to digging into your story and just hearing a bit about your journey into project management.  So tell us a little bit about what influenced you early on in your career in project management.  How did it start for you? MONIQUE SEKHON:  Yeah, so it’s kind of an interesting story, and it’s a bit of a legacy story.  So when I was in high school, my mom was studying for the PMP.  So at our house, all over all the floors, every possible surface, there was a PMBOK and tons of material and all that good stuff.  My dad would sit with her and quiz her and ask her questions.  And then she would be like, “Monique, come and quiz me.  I need to prepare for this exam.”  And I think she did write it twice.  So as a result, it was like quite a significant portion of my high school life helping her with this. And I just remember as she was going through, you know, studying and learning and hearing those words, okay, initiation and waterfall and all those, you know, terminologies.  And I’m somebody who has always been really active in school and sports and music and all that stuff.  I love doing projects.  I’m an ideas girl.  I’m a let’s man.  And so I really just realized that this is a structure to the work that I’m doing.  So I started to kind of look through her work and some of the templates she was using and that kind of thing. And she came from a business analysis background. So I started to take some of her PM templates and co-opt them for my school purposes, you know, running fundraisers.  We had this great program at my high school called Cops for Cancer.  We raised like $100,000 towards cancer in our community.  And I used project management templates to help with planning that whole process.  And I really just found that it resonated with me so much.  I love efficiency, and I love being able to do a lot, but do it well.  So as a result, it piqued my interest. And then without really, I guess, realizing it, I kind of went down a path that ended up being very project management-oriented, and people kind of put me in those roles because I was good at it.  I like to say, you know, it’s in my blood.  Like I just, I am a project manager through and through.  Path to Public Health BILL YATES:  That’s really cool.  I like your use of the word “legacy,” too.  You were a project management kid growing up.  It was natural for you and it happened to fit right along with how your brain’s wired.  That’s really cool.  So what drew you to public health when you were approaching your career and thinking, okay, what industry do I want to get into?  What drew you to public health? MONIQUE SEKHON:  So ever since I was a very small child, my parents really instilled in me the values of kind of being of service to others.  And it’s a big part of our culture.  So my heritage is from the North of India where our family is Punjabi by heritage.  And we have a huge culture around service.  So it was really natural for me to want to help others.  And I think, you know, many other children of immigrants may relate to this, but you kind of have three options when you’re growing up:  doctor, lawyer, engineer. And so I kind of was like, okay, well, I guess doctor; right?  Like that’s my way to kind of give back and be of service to others.  I remember like one of my first forays into volunteering was actually like a BMX competition here in Victoria.  And I just had like a little volunteer shirt on, and I was handing out brochures or something about like the program.  And I just remember being, this is awesome.  I get to be part of something.  And then I started to volunteer kind of more locally with a lot of different organizations.  And then I was about, I was in middle school, so I would have been like 10 or 11 when I heard for the first time about this organization called ME2WE.  They have this thing called WE Day that they do every year.  So it’s Craig and Marc Kielburger who started that organization.  And I remember them saying, you know, they had traveled somewhere, and they had seen for the first time kind of kids their own age and what they were going through in different countries.  And that really inspired them to want to help those children in whatever way they could. For me, it was similar.  I traveled to India when I was about seven and a half.  And I just remember I had just arrived with my family, and we were in the car on this massive highway.  It must have been like a 10-lane highway.  In the middle there was like a divider.  And we were stopped because of course it’s India.  It was Bombay.  Tons of traffic.  So we’re kind of stopped there in the car.  And I just looked over to the divider, and there was a little girl who looked the same age as me.  She must have been about like seven or eight.  And in one hand she had a little boy who must have been, like, two, holding her hand.  They were all covered in like soot, and they were dirty, and they didn’t have shoes or anything on.  On her other arm, which was amputated, she had a sling with a baby in it. And she just kind of looked in my eyes, and I looked in hers, and I was like, no way is this real life.  That girl is the same age as me.  How come, you know, I’m sitting here in a car, having traveled on a plane from Canada.  And, you know, if circumstances had been different, that could have easily been me.  So I just really felt, if I’m going to be here for however long I’m going to be here, I want to be of service.  So, I mean, health just was a natural fit. What I really love is my journey kind of started out with that more clinical perspective of, okay, I guess my only option is doctor.  And when I got into university, I got into a program that was focused on more of the population or quantitative side of health; right?  So more data, really.  And I fell in love.  I was like, okay, if I can work with this data, I can produce information that will change policy, that will change thousands upon millions of lives as opposed to being a clinician and dealing with like my roster of patients on a regular basis.  I want to be part of that prevention or that change that happens at the upstream level that makes life better for everyone. Monique’s Current Position WENDY GROUNDS:  Won’t you tell us what your current role is, where you’re working right now? MONIQUE SEKHON:  Yeah, so my current role is I’m essentially a team lead or manager for, our area, our branch is mental health and substance use data priorities.  So it’s a bit of a mouthful.  We work in the community and cross-sector area, and I work for British Columbia’s Ministry of Health.  So we have a little bit of a different system here in Canada that mirrors kind of the UK system.  And so we have ministries.  I know it sounds very Harry Potter, but it’s not all magic. Yeah, so at the Ministry of Health, we work with – in terms of data and health sector information analysis and reporting.  We work with administrative databases for the entire province.

The podcast by project managers for project managers. Following the 2020 devastating explosion in Beirut, project manager Kevin Gemayel's journey is nothing short of inspiring as he tackled challenges head-on. Hear firsthand accounts of his experiences during the blast, his strategies for managing tasks, stakeholders, budgets, and time, and the invaluable lessons learned. We discover Kevin's extraordinary project and the power of resilience in the face of adversity. Table of Contents 04:27 … Meet Kevin05:30 … Kevin’s Story of the Tragedy07:25 … Gathering a Team08:18 … The Family Façade Business09:44 … Deciding How to Prioritize13:34 … An Emergency Response15:33 … Resources and Supplies16:47 … An Economic Crisis20:08 … Personal Impact21:36 … Keeping a Team Motivated22:38 … Ren Love’s Projects from the Past25:00 … Planning Time Management and Strategy28:21 … Creative Problem-Solving29:31 … Kevin’s Lessons Learned31:08 … Personal Growth Through Tragedy34:57 … Looking Back36:37 … Advice to Younger PMs38:46 … Contact Kevin39:59 … Closing KEVIN GEMAYEL: … in leadership, they say you should become a leader and personally lead yourself before leading anyone else.  And I would advise every project manager to learn and to focus on how they should lead themselves before going out there and leading projects and people and teams because, when they do things right themselves, … they will be able to influence the people they are working with.  …  So don’t just focus on books and numbers and theoretical things.  Focus on yourself, as well. WENDY GROUNDS:  You’re listening to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  My name is Wendy Grounds, and with me in the studio is Bill Yates.  We want to feature some younger talent in the project management community.  We’re calling it our Rising Talent series.  So for the next two episodes we’re going to be sharing the stories of two young project managers who are not only inspirational, but they’re also making waves with their incredible contributions to the field.  Now, we have spoken to some young project managers in the past. BILL YATES:  Yeah, Episode 165 we had a great conversation with Kat Shane.  You may recall she had a startup company that she began at the University of Georgia, and it was working on a solution to help people, governments, and businesses figure out what products or packaging are locally recyclable.  So, can I recycle this?  And how to get them where they needed to go. WENDY GROUNDS:  We also spoke to Christelle Kwizera.  That was Episode 146.  At the age of 20, Christelle founded Water Access Rwanda, which was in response to the dangerous conditions Rwandans would face when collecting water from rivers and dams.  She was quite an incredible young lady. BILL YATES:  What a story.  So inspirational and so young. WENDY GROUNDS:  Yes, yes.  She was also a PMI Future 50 2021 honoree.  And the folk that we’re talking to in these two episodes are also Future 50 2023 honorees from PMI.  We are really enjoying featuring younger talent in the project management community.  The first one is our guest, Kevin. BILL YATES:  Yeah, this is a heavy story, this conversation we’ll have with Kevin.  It’s heavy.  It’s about the blast in Beirut.  And many people lost their lives, and many people who survived it will be dealing with it for a lifetime.  So, we wanted to recognize that.  But there are so many powerful lessons for us to learn from that, and to hear from Kevin. And we’ve tackled these kinds of topics before.  We spoke with Matthew Harper about the attack on the USS Cole and the lessons learned from that.  Peter Baines joined us from Australia.  He led international identification teams after tsunamis or terrorist attacks.  So, he’s talked with us about that.  And of course, Chuck Casto, that story was so engaging, looking at the Fukushima disaster and the 11 months that he spent onsite after the accident, and all the lessons learned he had from that after that earthquake and tsunami.  So, this is a topic we’ve been down before in terms of, okay, how do you lead through a tragedy?  And Kevin’s perspective is going to really be insightful. WENDY GROUNDS:  Right.  Today we embark on a story of resilience, determination, and the unwavering spirit to rebuild.  Just to give you a little more background, in 2020, Beirut’s port was engulfed in a catastrophic explosion, leaving behind a wake of devastation.  There were over 200 lives lost, 6,000 injured, and 300,000 people were homeless, with countless structures in ruins.  The aftermath of this tragedy was what set the stage for this immense rebuilding process. This was what Kevin Gemayel got involved with.  Kevin is a second-generation leader at a prominent building façade firm, and he found himself at the forefront of restoring Beirut’s shattered historical and cultural landmarks following the blast.  His tenure in the family business, marked by innovative project management and quality control methods since 2014, laid the groundwork for impactful change.  Today Kevin and his dedicated team navigate the profound personal and professional challenges posed by this tragedy, and he’s driven by a deep commitment to revitalize the city’s cherished landmarks.  So, join us today as we delve into Kevin’s journey and hear about his incredible project. Meet Kevin Hi, Kevin.  Welcome to Manage This.  Thank you so much for joining us today. KEVIN GEMAYEL:  Thank you.  Thank you. WENDY GROUNDS:  I must congratulate you on being a PMI Future 50 honoree.  That is really quite an accomplishment. BILL YATES:  That’s phenomenal. WENDY GROUNDS:  And we have been so excited to find your story and to learn more about you.  So, we’re looking forward to talking about your projects today.  The first thing is I just want to know what motivated your career in project management.  How did all of this get started for you? KEVIN GEMAYEL:  During my university years, we got some courses on project managers, as all engineers do.  And I found out that it’s quite an interesting subject.  I actually chose mechanical engineering to keep my options open.  And when I found out what’s the scope of work of project manager usually, it was very interesting for me because I didn’t really like to go into technical details.  I preferred understanding them, but not working on them on a daily basis.  So managing them was the best combination for me. Kevin’s Story of the Tragedy WENDY GROUNDS:  Today we’re talking about a pivotal project that has shaped your career that was really a big impact in 2020.  What was your experience, your personal experience of that time when the tragic blast happened in Beirut?  Were you living there at the time? KEVIN GEMAYEL:  I was in a city a bit far from Beirut.  But because of the scale of the explosion, we could hear the sound of it, and the house was shaken even at a very distant location.  We knew that something wrong happened, but we didn’t know the size of the damage.  Everyone in Beirut thought that the explosion happened right next to them because the sound was so loud.  It was around 6:00 p.m., and there was no more light here at 6:00 p.m.  It’s already nighttime.  So, we started making our phone calls, and we knew what happened.  We understood the size of the damage. So, I decided to go down to Beirut to witness it in my own eyes.  And that was honestly a disaster.  It’s like in the movies when a meteorite strikes, and all the roads are blocked.  It was exactly the same thing here.  And we found a way of walking there into the city.  Everyone was going there to see and to help because it was an unprecedented situation, honestly.  So when we got there this night, I had a house right next to the port.  First, I went to my house to see what happened to it.  It was a disaster.  And then the second day, in the morning, we also went down to help other people on the streets with our own hands.  That was the work of all the Lebanese, not just me.  Like I was on the ground with millions of people who were there pro bono, if you want, just to help because they didn’t care about work anymore, about anything.  For them, their city was struck.  And this day I realized that it was useless for me to stay on the grounds personally because I could have done so much more impact. Gathering a Team And that’s how I decided to gather a small team and to manage them in a way to start working on the imminent threat because we work in glass.  That’s our main specialty.  And there was so much glass that was going to fall on people, on people walking around the streets.  So that was the first threat after the explosion, other than the people who needed the first aid. So, I gathered a team because no one dared to carry glass with their hands.  It’s very dangerous.  We gathered a specialized team to do that.  And we started getting phone calls and categorizing the most important and the most critical places.  And that’s how the work started.  At the day of the explosion, we were a team of around 90 people, and this number kept on growing.  I don’t like to give precise numbers, but we were in the hundreds a few days later working together for us to rebuild our city. The Family Façade Business BILL YATES:  That’s amazing.  So help me understand, Kevin, was your background as a mechanical engineer, your background happened to be you knew a lot about glass and glass construction.  So when the explosion occurred, glass was blown out for miles, and it was glass all over the street.  And then, as you said, there’s glass just hanging, too; right?  It’s perilous for the efforts to recover people and start the cleanup.  So that happened to be some of the engineering knowledge that you had going into this? KEVIN GEMAYEL:  Not just that.  Actually, we have a family business, which is façade contracting.  Our daily work was windows and glass.

The podcast by project managers for project managers. Have you ever wondered why project team members decide to quit? Join us as we unravel the mysteries behind team turnover with HR expert Cindi Filer. Discover the pitfalls project managers should avoid to retain their team members, foster a thriving workplace environment, and optimize your most valuable resource: your people. Table of Contents 03:22 … Why are People Quitting?05:13 … Survey: Three Reasons People Quit06:03 … Employee Engagement Categories08:14 … Loud Quitting10:31 … Importance of Leadership Training12:23 … What Impacts Employee Engagement?19:24 … Where to Start as a PM20:58 … Kevin and Kyle22:22 … Building Your Team Culture26:05 … Pitfalls to Avoid29:43 … Dealing with Pay Issues32:47 … Well-Being at Work35:15 … Contact Cindi36:18 … Closing CINDI FILER: ...make sure you and your team is catching each other doing things that are positive, and then speaking those out to people.  Because I think encouragement is oxygen.  You’ve heard that.  And so it’s amazing when somebody’s leader calls them out for something that they’ve done well.  It’s amazing how much they feel grounded in that area. WENDY GROUNDS:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  I’m your host, Wendy Grounds, and with me is Bill Yates.  He is our seasoned project management expert. Today we’re diving into a topic that’s at the forefront of every organization’s success.  We’re talking employee retention.  And together with our guest we’re going to unravel some of the complexities and insights into the importance of maintaining employee and team member retention.  Why do people quit their jobs?  Why do they quit project teams?  What are the top factors driving this trend?  We’re going to be exploring the nuances behind this phenomenon and hopefully answering some of those questions for you today. BILL YATES:  Absolutely.  This is going to be a, we believe, a very helpful conversation.  We’ll be tackling the crucial question of how much of team engagement is attributable to the manager, and what advice do we have for the project manager who claims they don’t have time to focus on engagement, I’ve got a project to deliver.  Spoiler alert, there’s always time for strategies that boost team morale. And of course we can’t ignore the pitfalls and mistakes that project managers should steer clear of to prevent turnover on their teams.  We’ll learn from the errors of others so we don’t have to repeat those mistakes ourselves. WENDY GROUNDS:  We are honored today to have a distinguished guest with us in the studio.  We’re so excited.  We actually have a guest in the studio that we’re not sitting on Skype or Zoom.  We have Cindi Filer with us in the studio. BILL YATES:  Yeah, Wendy, this is exciting to have Cindi in the studio with us.  By the way, we have been using a new studio.  It’s called Summer Street Productions.  It’s a local Kennesaw-based studio that has fantastic equipment and facilities.  We’re delighted to be in here, and super excited to be enjoying the quality and the production value they bring to us.  So thank you guys at Summer Street. WENDY GROUNDS:  Cindi is a seasoned professional who has dedicated her career to help companies acquire and optimize their most valuable asset, their people.  She spent the early days of her career at Delta Airlines and Worldspan, a Delta company in the human resources space.  Twenty-nine years ago she founded Innovative Outsourcing, which is a staffing and recruiting firm dedicated to helping companies find and keep talented professionals, both part-time and full-time.  So stay tuned as we unravel the secrets to fostering a workplace where team members not only stay, but thrive. Hi, Cindi.  Welcome to Manage This.  Thank you so much for joining us. CINDI FILER:  Oh, I’m so glad to be here.  Thank you for asking.  Can’t wait to talk about some human resources stuff. WENDY GROUNDS:  Yeah, it’s good to have an expert in the studio.  We’re so excited. BILL YATES:  In the studio, yes. CINDI FILER:  It’s nice to be in person. BILL YATES:  Yes, yeah. Why are People Quitting? WENDY GROUNDS:  Yes, yes.  To start off with, why are people quitting their jobs?  What are some of the top factors that are causing people to leave their jobs? CINDI FILER:  Yeah, it’s amazing how still today, you know, we had this great resignation several years ago, or even up until last year.  And the reason why people were leaving their jobs then was there was just so much opportunity.  So there was such a shortage of workers.  And when you have a shortage of workers, you really have a great opportunity and market for the employees to go looking; right?  And so there were some employers that were offering, you know, 20, 30, 40% more pay than other employers.  So we had a lot of people jumping ship really fast because many of those people were still working home remotely.  And when you work home remotely, you know, you can kind of unplug from one company and plug into another company, and your life really doesn’t change. BILL YATES:  Your commute’s the same. CINDI FILER:  Exactly.  You’re not losing your best friends.  You’re not missing the Friday lunches, those kind of things.  And so I think it just became very easy to switch jobs.  And because right now, well, in 2023, if you left your job and went to another company for a job, the average increase was about 12 to 15%.  If you stayed in your company and got a promotion, the average increase was 5 to 6%.  So basically they knew those numbers.  And so they decided, “Hey, in order to really increase my pay, I’m going to have to get out rather than move up in my own company,” which is unfortunate because we know as company owners it’s really, really important to keep talent within the company because it helps you grow the company. BILL YATES:  It’s important for project managers, too.  Retention is so big.  I think of some of the projects I’ve worked on in the past, and I’d have a key team member either get plucked away from my team and put on another team. CINDI FILER:  Right. BILL YATES:  Or, you know, the same kind of thing happened that you were describing.  They left for a better opportunity. Survey: Three Reasons People Quit CINDI FILER:  Yeah, it’s amazing.  You know, there’s this survey that came out last year, and basically they said that in ‘21 and ‘22 there were three reasons people quit their jobs.  So 63% of those workers say that low pay was the reason.  So it wasn’t really low pay, but they could get higher pay.  No opportunities for advancement, 63%, meaning that they could advance better at a different company.  And feeling respected at work, which is amazing; 57% said they left because they didn’t feel respected at their jobs. BILL YATES:  And that’s something that we can all have a part in. CINDI FILER:  Absolutely.  And as leaders of people, we can all change that.  We may not be able to, as the leaders and maybe not the CEO, change the low pay or that opportunity.  But we can definitely change how they feel respected and like they’re part of something.  It’s amazing. Employee Engagement Categories BILL YATES:  All right, Cindi.  Let’s talk about retention, and let’s talk about employee engagement.  You’ve given presentations on this topic.  I’ve actually had the privilege of hearing you speak on this.  In my experience, I think back to project teams.  I think about project leaders and what can they influence and what can they not.  So much of what you share just really speaks to that.  But I want to start out with the three categories for the project manager to consider, the statistics.  And this was back to an employee engagement survey that you referenced in June of 2023 in the United States.  Talk a bit about those three categories and just let us know what those percentages are. CINDI FILER:  Yeah.  This was actually done by the Gallup organization, and it kind of is a little bit stunning because they put people into three categories.  One is people are thriving at work.  So, well, let’s go back and talk about what is employee engagement.  You hear that word a lot, and a lot of us business owners kind of throw that thing around, and HR people.  But what does that really mean to you as a leader of people or as people that are working somewhere?  It basically means that I feel totally connected to my job.  Not only do I enjoy what I do, but I feel like what I do matters; right?  And so I feel connected to the company, I feel connected to the work I do every day, and I feel connected to the people around me.  Surprisingly, only 31% say they are thriving at work.  And those are employees that really do feel that sense that we just talked about of high level of employee engagement.  I definitely feel connected. And then the next category is quiet quitting, which is 52%.  So we’re saying 52% of our employees, they’re not actively pursuing getting out of here, but they are not totally engaged.  And so that is a huge number.  In Europe and overseas, that number is even bigger.  But for here in the United States, to have 52% of our workers be sitting somewhere thinking, I will do the minimum amount of my job to get by, and I’m not going to do anything more because I don’t really love the company.  I don’t really love what I’m doing.  I’m just kind of existing.  That’s better. BILL YATES:  So they’re punching in and punching out.  But it’s like, I’m just going to give you the minimum, and my brain is sort of halfway here? Loud Quitting CINDI FILER:  Exactly.  You know, it might go from I’m halfway here to I have my opportunities open for other things, my ears open.  And then this is so interesting.  17% are loud quitting.  What the definition of that is that these employees are actually trying to undercut their employer.  I mean,

Do you lead projects that deliver measurable benefits? An often-overlooked aspect of projects is Benefits Realization, and sadly, many projects fail to deliver their intended outcomes. Renowned expert within benefits realization and organizational change, Rasmus Rytter, emphasizes the importance of ensuring projects actually realize the intended positive outcomes for stakeholders.

The podcast by project managers for project managers. We are taking a fresh look at project estimation. Topics include the estimation obstacles project managers commonly face, key factors essential for accurate projections, the impact of organizational culture, implementing cost management strategies, and navigating the risks of underestimating or overestimating project estimates. Table of Contents 02:10 … Project Estimating Course03:56 … What do We Estimate?04:46 … Factors in a Project Estimate06:26 … Ensuring Accurate Estimates08:30 … Experience and Experiment10:26 … Choosing the Best Approach11:41 … Estimating Tools12:38 … The Problem with Culture14:27 … Who Participates in the Estimating Process?15:55 … The People Side17:31 … Significance of Historical Information20:16 … Managing Costs22:17 … Underestimating your Project Estimates23:44 … The Issue of Risk Management25:26 … Dangers of Overestimating27:56 … How to Combat Overestimating29:03 … Implementing an Estimating Process33:54 … Closing BOB MAHLER:  ...every time you sign your name on the dotted line, your credibility as a project manager is going to be in question and scrutinized.  And the larger the project, the more visible, the more scrutiny you’re going to have.  You should welcome that, and you should rise to that challenge. WENDY GROUNDS:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  I am Wendy Grounds, and with me in the studio is Bill Yates and our sound guy, Danny Brewer.  We’re so happy you’re joining us today because today we’re going to dive into the world of project estimation.  We’re going to discover the essential elements that demand estimation and the crucial factors driving accurate projections.  With our guests, we’re going to navigate the landscape of estimation tools and strategies as we discover a seamless approach for crafting dependable estimates. Now, the experts we’re going to talk to on project estimating are Ren Love and Bob Mahler.  You all know Ren.  She is part of our Velociteach team.  She also does our Projects from the Past snippets that we sometimes include in our podcasts.  And she is the manager of curriculum development at Velociteach.  She’s also worked in zoos, science centers, and Disney’s Animal Kingdom before she joined one of the Big Four accounting firms; and she has 10 years of unique management experiences.  We’re so glad to have Ren on the team.  BILL YATES:  Now let me tell you just a bit about Bob Mahler. WENDY GROUNDS:  Yeah, it’s been a while since we’ve talked to Bob. BILL YATES:  Yeah, Bob started his career with Velociteach similar to what I did, as an instructor.  So he taught for a number of years.  And then he migrated into sales, a natural role for him.  He’s director of business development with Velociteach now.  His background, he started out with the military.  As a matter of fact, he served our country as a Green Beret through the U.S. Army; served in Egypt, Kenya, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, many places.  After 12 years of service with the military, he moved back into the private sector and was a telecommunications specialist there.  Project Estimating Course WENDY GROUNDS:  Bob and Ren have developed a project estimating course which you can find on our website. This is an instructor-led course for group or corporate training. This course will teach students the most common and effective practices, tools and techniques for project estimating. You can email manage_this@velociteach.com if you would like more information or you can find a link to this course on our transcript. WENDY GROUNDS:  Ren and Bob, it’s so good to have you both back on the podcast.  I wanted to ask you a little bit about the course.  You developed a course for Velociteach on project estimating.  Can you give us some background to that? BOB MAHLER:  Well, of course.  First and foremost, it’s always a pleasure to be here with the Velociteach team, my home, my family, my livelihood.  So project estimating was an interesting and fun course because, as everyone knows, practitioners go through this vacuum towards achieving their PMP where they answer questions about project estimates without any external factors.  And it’s usually very simplified.  Then, once you start doing real work, you realize, oh, wow, there’s a lot of other things that go into this, like who’s doing the work, and when are we doing the work, and what about risk, or what about quality, and what about stakeholder tolerance? When a recent client realized that studying for the exam and reality were very different, they reached out and said, hey, we need help.  And since you’ve made every possible project mistake in your experience that could be made and then corrected it, you’re the right guy.  So that led us through course development for this particular client. What do We Estimate? BILL YATES:  It was fun for me to watch, Bob, you and Ren collaborate on this.  You were getting requirements from the customer, a large hospital system, to develop this course, helping them identify their pain points.  And then you and Ren were looking at it going, okay, what should be covered in this estimating class, you know, based on just the knowledge that we have, the experience that we’ve had from different industries, and then also specifically for this hospital system.  But let me just back up.  Ren, let me throw this one at you.  What kind of things do we need to estimate on a project? REN LOVE:  There are lots of things that can be estimated on a project.  The three biggest ones that I think come out the most when we talk about project estimating are project costs, how long your project is going to take, and the number of resources that you’re going to need to be getting the work done. Factors in a Project Estimate WENDY GROUNDS:  What are some of the factors and the considerations that are essential when you’re building out your estimates?  What’s the information that you need? BOB MAHLER:  So as Ren previously stated, there are a lot of things that go into any particular estimate.  And I’m fond of saying, and I may have just made this up, that estimates are the anchor between scope, cost, and schedule because, if you get the scope right, hopefully, then the estimates, sound estimates, are going to lead you into a solid schedule.  And since time is money, it will lead you into a solid budget. Some of those factors are, how experienced are you at this particular work?  How solid are your estimates for this particular material?  Who’s doing the work?  What’s your efficiency?  When are you available?  What about inflation?  What about interest?  And what about the vendor?  The list goes on and on.  And whenever you think you’ve done enough due diligence, you’re probably only halfway there.  If you’re not scared, then you haven’t done enough work on it. BILL YATES:  That’s a good litmus test.  I like that, yeah.  When you start to feel overconfident, that’s when you’ve probably forgotten to ask a key stakeholder a key question or turn over one more rock.  That’s a good point. BOB MAHLER:  And I didn’t even mention risk.  As we know, I’m a risk manager, too, and I didn’t even mention risk.  Another key consideration is based on the kind of work.  Is it dangerous?  Do you need to estimate more time and cost?  And that list is a whole ‘nother rabbit hole to go into.  But I think I’ll stop right there. Ensuring Accurate Estimates BILL YATES:  All right.  So key question here.  How do you ensure your estimates are as accurate as possible? REN LOVE:  I can chime in a little bit on this one, Bob, which is historical information can be really, really valuable here.  So here’s where you can look at similar projects in the past and say, you know, that took us two years.  So let’s start our estimating there and adjust for some of those other factors and assumptions that Bob just mentioned a minute ago.  That’s a great starting point, but also making sure that you have the best information possible as inputs to that estimating process.  You may hear the phrase “garbage in/garbage out.”  If you’re using historical information that is not accurate or effective for some reason, then you’re not going to have the most accurate estimates on this project. So, for example, if your historical project that you’re looking at took a year off in 2020 because of the global pandemic, thus took three years to do, and you’re looking at this historical project estimate saying, okay, well, that project took three years, this one will probably take three years, too, well, you’re less likely to encounter a global pandemic, hopefully, than that project did.  So that’s something to think about, too. And then the last one I want to mention is estimating in good faith.  So you can’t truly get accurate estimates if you have already been given a target in mind from some external person.  So let’s say you have a key stakeholder that says, oh, it would be really great if this release coincided with the major holiday a year from now.  Well, now you may find yourself trying to estimate your schedule into fitting that timeline, and that is not estimating in good faith.  You really cannot work backwards.  So what should happen there is that you do all of your estimates to the best of your ability, go back to that key stakeholder and say, all right, based on what we know, we’re going to need more money and more resources to hit that deadline that you want.  And so that’s what I mean when I say “estimating in good faith.” Experience and Experiment BILL YATES:  Okay, Ren, you mentioned historical information, which is so important for estimating.  We’ve got to have historical information in order to really feel like we’ve got a solid anchor for our estimates.  I remember you did some research on the Sydney Opera House.  I don’t think there’s another Sydney Opera House,

The podcast by project managers for project managers. Burnout and resilience. How can we move beyond viewing resilience as a buzzword and dispel the notion that it involves only toughing it out or maintaining a positive attitude? Balancing project success with avoiding burnout is a real challenge in high-stress environments Dr. Marie-Helene (MH) Pelletier discusses the necessity of adopting a strategic approach to resilience by integrating psychology and strategy. Table of Contents 02:39 … Why Resilience Is Important03:45 … Do We “Tough it Out”?04:57 … If the Context is Changing, Change Your Approach08:23 … What “The Resilience Plan” Offers11:56 … Helix Shape Resilience Plan Model13:28 … Being Strategic about Resilience15:11 … Creating a Resilience Plan19:04 … Kevin and Kyle20:10 … Burnout24:10 … Can Resilience Cause Burnout?28:20 … Striking a Balance31:20 … Taking Care of Yourself34:15 … Team Resilience37:30 … Contact MH38:07 … Closing MH PELLETIER:  ...most project managers, would not be in a situation where on the daily basis have to explore how everyone’s feeling about everything, obviously.  But they’re also managing a project, managing people who are within this project, and managing themselves supporting this project.  So the more we can incorporate in our observations, the very normal expected demands and expected impacts that these may have on all of us as we navigate this timeline, the more we can, again, proactively manage and be prepared to reactively manage when any one of us, to your point, feels like we need to hit the pause button.  WENDY GROUNDS:  Welcome, resilient leaders, to a special edition of Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  Stay tuned with us today for a conversation that will reshape the way you approach challenges in project management. I’m Wendy Grounds.  My co-host, who is the expert in the arena of project management, is Bill Yates; and joining us is our unflappable sound guy, Danny Brewer.  Today we’re delving into a topic that’s the bedrock of success in the face of adversity:  resilience.  In the high stakes arena of project management, where challenges loom around every corner, resilience isn’t just a buzzword, it’s actually the secret sauce that turns your setbacks into stepping stones.  If you are navigating a stormy project or just seeking to fortify your professional resilience, this episode is your compass to success because in project management, the resilient not only survive, but thrive. We’re excited to introduce our guest, who is a true champion in the realm of resilient project leadership, Marie-Hélène Pelletier. BILL YATES:  Yes, we are so fortunate to have her joining us as our guest.  And she goes by MH, which is appropriate.  It’s a handy reference to mental health.  The short form really is a great fit there.  We love that.  So you’ll hear us refer to our guest as MH.  She’s a psychologist with a systems mind.  She has both a PhD and an MBA.  She has over 20 years of experience as a practicing psychologist and as a senior leader in the corporate insurance, governance, and healthcare sectors.  MH’s unique talent is bringing together workplace and psychology, translating concepts into key takeaways that listeners can put into action the minute they finish the episode.  WENDY GROUNDS:  Yes, definitely.  There are many takeaways from this conversation, so let’s get talking. Hi, MH.  Welcome to Manage This. MH PELLETIER:  I’m thrilled to be here. Why Resilience Is Important WENDY GROUNDS:  We really appreciate you being with us.  You released “The Resilience Plan.”  It’s a strategic approach to optimizing your work performance and mental health.  Why is resilience so important?  Why does it matter to you? MH PELLETIER:  Great question, and let me provide a definition because we hear the word, we use the word.  What is mostly the definition, even if we go to literature?  One that most people go with is our ability to go through adversity and grow, come out even stronger.  And by “adversity” here, we mean the acute events, but also chronic demands, like a pandemic, for example.  So we’ve heard a lot about it, we know the kinds of things that would help, and most of us are struggling to implement them.  Yet we know from research that, if we did, we would have a chance to more proactively influence the course of how things will go for us and for people we work with.  So it’s a great opportunity, and that’s why I think it’s so important. Do We “Tough it Out”? BILL YATES:  Sometimes people think you either have to tough it out or stay positive when it comes to resilience.  What is your view on this? MH PELLETIER:  I would say most professionals and leaders at one point or another probably think this way.  And there are good reasons.  It’s actually not helpful, but why do we think this?  We think this because, especially early in our careers, without us realizing it, it just appeared that we could just keep going, not pay specific attention.  It felt like we were naturally like this.  Often people even told us, “Oh, you’re so resilient,” that you just get to a point where you think it’s part of you. So because you think it’s part of you, you just think, put your head down, keep going, stay positive, and that’s all going to be fine.  That’s how we get to think about it this way.  The thing is, resilience is actually not a personality trait.  It’s something at times will be higher, at times will be lower, which means on the very positive side that we can influence it; right?  And we actually should because, if we don’t, and we keep taking from that pool of resilience, well, it will go down just like any other resource. If the Context is Changing, Change Your Approach BILL YATES:  This point really hit home with me early in your book.  You shared a very personal experience of you and your husband were hiking, you overcame an obstacle, and then you faced the same obstacle, the river, a few days later.  And your reserves were low.  You were dehydrated.  You were tired.  I think many of us can relate to that in life and in work.  And then this challenge became something that almost got the best of you.  And that was a real eye-opener for me and grabbed my attention.  Share a bit about that. MH PELLETIER:  Yes, I think each of us have gone through something like this.  And you’re right; this situation for me is in a mountaineering situation and not a work situation.  However, it was a fairly significant experience for me.  And the learning I got from it was a mountaineering learning.  If the context is changing, change your approach, MH, which sounds very obvious.  And but then, as I worked with professionals and leaders in my coaching work and in my speaking, I thought, look at the applicability of this in our work. We have our ways of dealing with challenges.  The context changes.  We are facing more unexpected, larger events.  And yet we keep going the same approach, which – and literally people will come sometimes to their conversations with me and say, “MH, I don’t know what’s wrong with me.  I’ve always responded this way.  It has always worked.  What’s my problem now that it’s not working?”  And often the key is in the context that has changed.  And therefore the approach needs to change.  We need to be adaptable. BILL YATES:  I thought of a personal experience when I was reflecting on this.  One time I was at the gym, the YMCA, doing a normal workout like I would typically do.  This time I think I pushed a little bit harder than normal.  And I finished my workout, went back into the locker room to retrieve my things, and I could not remember the combination to my lock.  So this was a lock combination that I’ve known for years.  And I’ve been in that same situation over and over and over and was able to remember three numbers.  But for the life of me, for five minutes, I could not remember the combination.  And I was embarrassed; and I was a bit, you know, taken aback by it because this is something that I, you know, I do this all the time.  But again, conditions had changed; and, poof, that information, my ability to handle the situation was gone. MH PELLETIER:  Exactly.  And this is a great example.  I mean, that exact thing has happened for many of us, or something similar.  And often when these things happen, we deal with it quickly.  And at the same time, these are really good warning signs to pay attention to.  Quite possibly in this moment, your concentration was not as high as usual.  And concentration does not just fluctuate for the sake of it.  It usually will go down when our resources are so tapped in other areas that it starts to show in concentration, ability to make decisions, sometimes impatience, even other things.  And that’s another thing we tend to do.  We tend to ignore it.  And part of what I’m saying in the book is unh-unh, let’s pay attention to these things early, proactively. What “The Resilience Plan” Offers WENDY GROUNDS:  So we’re excited that your book is going live, “The Resilience Plan.”  What does this offer that’s going to help our audience?  You know, sometimes resilience just becomes like a buzzword.  We all hear about it.  We talk about it.  What are you offering that is really going to help people to improve? MH PELLETIER:  Great question.  And that’s true.  We’ve heard this word. Like we said, it’s not because we’ve heard it that we’re better at it.  And a fair bit of people I work with actually are project managers.  And they’re wonderful at their, you know, their business thinking, their operational thinking, their organizational sense, all of this.  I have a special place in my heart – seriously, for real, I’m not just saying this to you – for project managers.  I’ve been that leader that works with a project manager who wants a million things done now.  And project manager calmly looks at me and says,

The podcast by project managers for project managers. Discover how project managers leverage their skills to navigate the multifaceted sales role. Harold Samson, shares insights on developing diverse sales-oriented skills. From the art of securing resources, fostering team alignment, and building client relationships, hear about the pillars of successful project management in a sales-oriented role. Table of Contents 03:10 … The Project Manager Salesperson06:32 … Internal Sales10:26 … Successful Salesperson Qualities14:30 … Opportunity Bulletin16:56 … External Sales Strategies19:57 … Kevin and Kyle21:00 … Selling to Senior Management25:36 … Real-World Situations29:03 … Look for Opportunities30:43 … Ethical Considerations in Sales34:11 … Contact Harold35:56 … Closing HAROLD SAMSON: One of the earliest things that I learned was that every person in the world since the dawn of time, everybody makes decisions that are in their own best interest.  It’s as simple as that.  And all you need to figure out is what are their best interests? WENDY GROUNDS:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  My name is Wendy Grounds, and in the studio with me are Bill Yates and Danny Brewer, our sound guy.  We’re so excited that you are joining us.  If you like what you hear, please consider rating our show with five stars, and you can also leave a review on our website or whichever podcast listening app you use.  This helps us immensely in bringing the podcast to the attention of others, and we want to reach as many project managers as we can to be able to help the community. One question I have for you listeners:  How does your experience as a project manager translate into your ability to sell a product or an idea to stakeholders, to your clients, or even to your team members? BILL YATES:  The sales aspect.  You know, just as we were preparing for our conversation with Harold, just this week there was a blog that I read by Antonio Nieto-Rodriguez, a guest of ours on an earlier podcast, and here’s a quote:  “Traditionally project management has been viewed as a support function, a facilitator of a predefined business strategy.  However, in my experience as a project management expert” - this is Antonio speaking, not Bill – “modern project management isn’t just a facilitator, but an enabler and driver of business growth.” So this is very interesting that Antonio just wrote about this.  There is a sales side to what we do as project managers.  We have to sell it to the team, we have to sell it internally to get the resources, and then sometimes we have to sell to our external customers.  There’s nobody better to talk to us about it than Harold.  He’s had such great experience with that.  I’ve known Harold since 2006, have been working with him since 2006, and he’s just got a vast amount of experience and knowledge on, not just project management, but different industries and how consulting practices work and how project managers get things done.  WENDY GROUNDS:  So today we’re talking with Harold Samson, who is one of our instructors at Velociteach.  Harold has been with us for many, many years.  He has more than 25 years experience in application systems development, and 20 of those involved all aspects of project management.  As a senior principal and co-founder of C.W. Costello & Associates, which is a national provider of business systems consulting services to Fortune 500 companies, Harold gained hands-on experience managing project teams in all phases of the system development lifecycle within many different industries. We just realized we have not yet had the opportunity to talk to Harold on a podcast. BILL YATES:  We need to make that straight.  We need to fix that. WENDY GROUNDS:  Yes, yes.  Hi, Harold.  Welcome to Manage This.  Thank you for being our guest today. HAROLD SAMSON:  Well, thanks for inviting me.  I’m looking forward to the conversation. The Project Manager Salesperson WENDY GROUNDS:  Yeah, I think it’s been a long time coming, and we’re excited to get into this topic.  Where did the whole idea of the project manager as a salesperson come from, and how has this evolved as your career has progressed? HAROLD SAMSON:  Well, I started up in the Boston area.  When I first got into IT consulting, I worked for a boutique consulting firm up in Boston, and we were organized pretty much how every other consulting firm was organized back then.  We had a CEO and a whole bunch of salespeople, and then all of the consultants.  So it was a flat organization, and the salespeople were responsible for selling, and the consultants were responsible for doing the work.  And there wasn’t any emphasis put on the consultants being salespeople in place, so to speak.  So I worked there for four or five years, learned my craft.  And then me and six of my buddies, we decided to start our own company in Connecticut. So we moved from Boston to Connecticut, and we started our own company, and it pretty much followed the same path until we hired a salesperson from  IBM.  And this gentleman was looking for a change in his career.  He was very, very successful at IBM, selling mainframes and everything that goes along with it.  And we brought him in.  He wanted a challenge.  He wanted to start selling services, so he thought that would be interesting for him. And the first thing that he noticed when he came into our organization is that none of the consultants were selling out there in the field.  And we said, “Well, what do you mean?  We’re supposed to do the work.  We’re supposed to be the geniuses onsite.  We don’t sell.  That’s your job.”  He said, “No, no, no.  My job is to get you into a place, but then you have boots on the ground.  You get to see everything.  I’m not there.  There are many, many opportunities, and I’m going to teach you how to look for them.” And over the next couple of years we went from a small company with a couple of offices.  Ten years later, we were doing $100 million in sales, and it was all because of what this guy taught us.  And as I go from class to class, site to site, and most of my classes are the PMP prep classes, but we teach a variety of other classes where management brings us in to groom their project managers.  And the first thing that we noticed, first thing that I noticed is that these guys wouldn’t know a sales opportunity if it knocked them on the head with a mallet.  It’s really a pretty straightforward thing to teach not only the project manager how to find and close on additional work with the customer, but the team members as well.  They’re out there.  They hear things.  They see things. And they just don’t know what they’re hearing, and they don’t know that there are opportunities buried in some of the chitchat that goes on in any facility.  And you just need to know what to look for, and that’s what we used to train our people.  That’s what this particular IBM salesman used to teach us, and he opened our eyes, the results went right to the bottom line for sure. Internal Sales BILL YATES:  That’s a powerful story.  And to me, one of the things that intrigued me in talking about this topic is, in my mind, there’s two types of sales that a project manager needs to be aware of.  There’s the external opportunities that we need to be more aware of.   But there’s also the internal piece, a sales piece that I think for some project managers is a bit of a stretch.  But it’s, hey, you need to sell the team on the value of this project and sell the team on their contribution to the success of the project.  You’ve got to get them onboard.  So talk to us a little bit about that internal sales piece. HAROLD SAMSON:  You’re definitely right.  There’s two sides of the coin there.  And when we talk to these project managers about sales, the way I introduce the topic, as I say, hey, I’m just curious, how many of you guys have ever been in sales before?  Just a show of hands.  And it seems like an innocent question.  And if we’ve got 20 people in the room, maybe one or two will put their hands up.  Then I’ll begin the discussion.  I’ll say, okay, that’s the problem.  You’re all in sales.  You don’t realize it, but as a project manager, you are selling to everybody.  First and foremost, you are selling to your team.  The first sale you have to make when you bring your team together, you need to convince everyone on the team that it’s in their best interest that the project succeeds. Now, question is, how you do that?  Well, there’s no one-size-fits-all when it comes to that.  You need to talk to everyone.  One of the first mistakes that I made in the early part of my career as a project manager was I just assumed everybody was motivated by the same thing I was, which was I want to advance in the organization.  I want to make a lot of money.  And I found out very quickly that not everybody is motivated by money and advancement.  And you don’t know that until you sit down and have a one on one with every person on the team.  You know half of them will be motivated by money, and that’s an easy discussion to have.  You know, what’s it going to take?  What kind of money are you looking for in the future?  And let’s put a plan together.  If you do this, then you will get that.  And once it’s in black and white, people have a roadmap for how to get from A to B, then you’d be amazed at how motivated they are. One of the earliest things that I learned was that every person in the world since the dawn of time, everybody makes decisions that are in their own best interest.  It’s as simple as that.  And all you need to figure out is what are their best interests.  Now, half the people, like I said, are going to be motivated by money, advancement, all the accoutrements that go with that.  But the other people, you’d be surprised.  Some people are motivated by, you know what, I’d really like more time off.

Project C.U.R.E. was founded in 1987 to address the staggering shortage of medical resources around the world. It has become the world’s largest distributor of donated medical supplies, equipment and services to doctors and nurses serving the sick and dying in more than 135 countries. Each week Project C.U.R.E. delivers approximately three to five semi-truck-sized ocean containers packed with the medical equipment and supplies desperately needed to save lives in hospitals and clinics in resource-limited countries.

The podcast by project managers for project managers. Foundational power skills encompass soft skills, behavioral competencies, and personality traits essential for leaders, aspiring leaders, and team members alike. By embracing these power skills, individuals can elevate their capabilities, leading to enhanced organizational performance and fostering a collaborative, high-performance culture within organizations. Table of Contents 02:47 … Neal’s Motivation03:54 … Targeting the Audience05:31 … A Power Skill08:21 … The 24 Power Skills12:07 … Pick Your Top Three13:25 … Manage Daily Your Top Three Priorities18:11 … A Project Story21:30 … Feedback on Focusing on Top Three23:13 … Treat All Project Managers Equally27:45 … Setting Expectations29:33 … Kevin and Kyle30:52 … Power Sills for the Team32:29 … Who Teaches the Power Skills?33:58 … Informing Your Leaders37:09 … Make Your Leaders Look Good42:37 … Contact Neal44:22 … Closing NEAL WHITTEN: Power skills give you the real power to get your job done effectively and efficiently.  It places the accountability for your actions squarely on you.  I’m very big on accountability.  I think it’s something we’re missing in this world quite a bit.  And I find also that most people would rather have the authority and accountability that these power skills support.  So when you unleash this power in the non-management ranks, I assert your organization and company are going to prosper like never before. WENDY GROUNDS:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  I’m Wendy Grounds.  And here with me in the studio is Bill Yates, and our sound guy is Danny Brewer. We’re excited to bring this episode to you.  We’re talking with someone who is well known and loved by all the Velociteach team.  This is Neal Whitten.  He’s a trainer, he’s a consultant, mentor, author, speaker in the areas of power skills and leadership, as well as project management, team building, and employee development.  He has authored eight books and has written over 150 articles for professional magazines and was a contributing editor of PMI’s PM Network Magazine for over 15 years.  He has developed 20 online products through Velociteach.  And Bill, you’re going to tell us a little bit more about Neal, too. BILL YATES:  Yeah.  You know, there are certain relationships that you have at work, partnerships like this, that just take your game to the next level.  We are so honored to partner with Neal.  And I think it’s been nearly 10 years that we’ve been working with Neal.  And yeah, we have a number of InSite courses that are in the voice of Neal Whitten.  It’s actually his voice, it’s his content, and it’s in our InSite self-paced platform. We also are thrilled to offer, if somebody wants Neal to come onsite and present one of his workshops, he even has a two-day workshop on the content that we’re going to go through with this Power Skills book.  You can contact us.  We have that relationship with Neal, and we can set that up, as well.  One of my highlights in working here at Velociteach has been this partnership with Neal Whitten.  We’ve got so much respect for him. WENDY GROUNDS:  And we are going to be talking about his book, “Power Skills That Lead to Exceptional Performance.”  It’s a new book that’s just come out this year.  And, hey, if you’re looking for a gift that you want to give to everybody on your team or to a project manager that you know and love, this is an excellent idea for a wonderful Christmas gift, and you’ve just got a few days to go out and get yours.  Hi, Neal.  Welcome to Manage This.  We’re excited to have you back again. NEAL WHITTEN:  Thank you, I’m honored to be here. Neal’s Motivation WENDY GROUNDS:  So we’re going to jump right in and talk about your book, “Power Skills That Lead to Exceptional Performance.”  And Bill and I were very excited that we got to read it early.  It’s a very good book.  Can you tell us your motivation for writing this book? NEAL WHITTEN:  Yeah, I’d be happy to.  I worked alongside, trained, or mentored thousands of project managers, team leaders, and managers at all levels over the years.  You can tell I’m an old guy.  But I’ve learned a lot from others by listening to them, observing them, and mentoring.  And throughout this period, I’ve commonly experienced many people who either purposely or inadvertently held themselves back from reaching their true potential.  And this situation is always frustrating to me because I often believe in others more than they believe in themselves.  But we’ve all been there.  And as a seasoned practitioner – again, read “old guy” there – I decided to write a book to reach out to this audience and encapsulate decades of lessons.  And it represents lessons that are acquired and time tested from a lifetime of application. Targeting the Audience BILL YATES:  That’s for sure.  Of course, I know and respect you deeply, and we’ve had many conversations.  So when I was reading it, I read it in your voice.  I felt like I was across the coffee table from Neal, and he was pouring truth into me.  This is such good stuff.  And as I’ve said to you, I feel like this should be mandatory training.  These are just basic skills that people need to understand.  They need to have them verified that it’s something they need to do or behavior they need to have.  And you’re validating that in the book. To me, I’d love to give this book to someone who’s just starting their career in project management.  But for me, who I’ve got a whole bunch of gray hair, there’s stuff in here that resonates with me that reminds me or teaches me a different approach.  So to me the audience seems really broad.  Who’s your target audience when you were writing this book? NEAL WHITTEN:  It is a broad audience, but I can be very specific.  There are three specific target areas that I went after.  First of all, it’s for leaders.  If you’re a leader today, I don’t care if you’re in management or a project manager or you’re a team leader, whatever you are, it’s for you.  And it’s also for those who aspire to be leaders so they understand what’s expected of them.  And the third audience is all employees who desire to take their performance to a higher level.  So I agree with you.  It is very, very broad.  Now, a lot of my examples in the book are related to project management.  Those are my roots.  But people who are not project managers, or BAs or whatever, I really think can relate very much to the book, and I want them to be able to do so. Power Skills WENDY GROUNDS:  In the book, you describe a number of power skills that we can implement to take our leadership performance to a higher level.  So just describe exactly what a power skill is. NEAL WHITTEN:  Yeah, power skills, that term hasn’t been around much for very long, maybe a few years.  It’s actually been around a lot longer than that, but it just hasn’t been common.  I like the term.  Power skills include what we think of as soft skills, people skills, behavioral skills, personality traits.  And these are things that come into play every day.  And this book is about those power skills that all employees, leaders and non-leaders alike, need to embrace to perform at their best, thus causing their organizations to also perform at their best.  That was my goal, by the way.  Wasn’t just to have each individual be the best version of themselves, it was also train an organization so it can also now be a best version of itself. Readers will likely recognize the power skills that I introduced.  They’re not like, oh, wow, Neal just created something I never thought of before.  Although there may be some of that in there.  People are not always acutely aware of these power skills, even though they’ve been out there.  And it’s either because no one made them aware of these power skills; or they were aware of them, but they were afraid to apply some of them.  For example, for some people, their palms are going to sweat and their heart’s going to race when they start reaching out to do some of these things because it’s going to require a backbone.  And if that scares people back, there are so many other things in the book that will encourage them to move forward in other areas. And by the way, I’m not trying to change anybody because I want to change them.  I want people to be who they choose to be.  What I’m trying to do is I want people to recognize they can be almost anybody they choose to be.  And I want to give them the tools to get there if they choose to.  Even if, let’s say I talk about 50 different things in the book, and let’s say 10 of them make people a little nervous.  They’re not so sure they could do those things.  Well, even if they just did the 40, they’re going to be better off than where they were before they picked up the book.  But I will bet that most people will move towards those other 10, maybe inch towards it or maybe gallop towards it, depending on who the individual is. But power skills give you the real power to get your job done effectively and efficiently.  It places the accountability for your actions squarely on you.  I’m very big on accountability.  I think it’s something we’re missing in this world quite a bit.  And I find also that most people would rather have the authority and accountability that these power skills support.  So when you unleash this power in the non-management ranks, I assert your organization and company are going to prosper like never before. The 24 Power Skills BILL YATES:  Hmm.  That’s so true.  Throughout the book, you build that premise of, okay, this is good for the individual.  But every individual is part of a team, and every team is part of an organization.  So I really appreciate the way you apply it, first to the individual, and then to teams and organizations.  It raises the value for everyone.  Okay, I’ve got to ask this question.

The podcast by project managers for project managers. Constance Dierickx lays out a new paradigm for leadership that offers a way to synthesize thinking, emotion, and behavior. Meta-leadership goes beyond conventional leadership attributes, emphasizing not only the possession of knowledge and skills but also a keen sense of observation and discernment. Table of Contents 02:29 … Meta-Leadership04:42 … Adopting a Meta-Leadership Strategy07:24 … Meta-Leadership Enables Decision-Making10:12 … Factors that Drive our Decisions14:36 … A Tension between Certainty and Uncertainty18:45 … Dealing with Unprofessional Behavior24:35 … Meta-Level Awareness26:16 … Kevin & Kyle27:22 … The Courage to Fail32:23 … Listen, Learn, and be Curious36:55 … Connect with Constance38:42 … Closing CONSTANCE DIERICKX:  And I can't stress the importance of showing sincere interest in other people.  Don't say it.  Don't say, “I'm a people person.”  No one believes you.  Don't say, “People are our greatest asset.”  No one believes you.  Public relations, vanilla pudding.  Do not spew the typical stuff.  Say things that are sincere and memorable and uniquely yours. WENDY GROUNDS:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  I'm Wendy Grounds.  In the studio with me is Bill Yates and Danny Brewer.  We're so excited you're joining us today.  We're talking with Constance Dierickx, and she is the author of a book that we have read called “Meta-Leadership:  How to See What Others Don't and Make Great Decisions.”  Constance is really fun to talk to and has excellent advice.  I think you're going to enjoy this conversation. She earned her PhD in clinical psychology focusing on decision science and crisis intervention.  She's an internationally recognized expert in high-stakes decision-making, and she has advised leaders and delivered speeches in more than 20 countries.  She's the founder and president of CD Consulting Group.  And we're going to be looking at her book “Meta-Leadership.”  One of the things that comes out of her book that I thought was really interesting was good leaders become great in part because they recognize that their own thinking, emotions, and habits of behavior can be a source of error.  So this is time for a lot of introspection.  We're going to be looking at ourselves, looking a little deeper and how are we being meta-leaders? BILL YATES:  Even to decision-making.  And here's an example of how Constance applies this idea of meta-leadership.  Let's say I'm contemplating a significant decision.  Here are questions that I should answer.  Who am I trying to please?  Or who do I not want to disappoint or annoy?  What pressures am I experiencing to make one decision or another?  Are there opinions that I am minimizing or dismissing because I don't like that person that they're coming from?  Am I being closed-minded?  Those are some of the questions that we're going to be prompted to consider as we look at this topic and discuss it further with Constance. WENDY GROUNDS:  Hi, Constance.  Welcome to Manage This. CONSTANCE DIERICKX:  Thank you, Wendy.  It's delightful to see you and Bill on my screen. Meta-Leadership WENDY GROUNDS:  Can you describe for our audience what you mean by meta-leadership? CONSTANCE DIERICKX:  Yes, yes.  So “meta” is a prefix from the Greek.  Someone needs to tell Mark Zuckerberg that it's not a word unto itself, although I doubt he'll listen.  “Meta” means above or beyond.  And so we think about metacognition, which means thinking about your thinking, which I write about in the book.  I have a whole section on thinking.  We think about meta-analysis.  So researchers will sometimes take a group of studies that have something in common.  Maybe they're all studying the effects of a new antidepressant, and they collapse the data and do what's called the “meta-analysis.”  And so you get the “meta‑study.” I have worked with boards and CEOs for 25 years.  And I always ask myself two questions.  One is why do these smart people do things that don't look so smart, which has haunted me for decades.  But the other question is what do great leaders do differently?  And I've been so lucky to work with a number of extraordinary leaders.  What I've found that they do is that they think above and beyond, and they're synthesizers.  So meta-leadership really lays out a new paradigm for leadership that offers leaders a way to synthesize thinking, emotion and behavior.  And looking at what we gain by overlapping, what is the overlap when you have metacognition, awareness of emotion, and the ability to observe habits of behavior?  You get a really powerful combination that leads to insights.  And generally in great leaders, it also surprisingly leads to empathy, not only for others, but for themselves.  Anne Morriss and Francis Frei, researchers and consultants like to say leadership is imperfect humans leading imperfect humans.  And we sometimes forget that. BILL YATES:  Yes, that is so true.  That sounds just like our day-to-day struggles with projects. CONSTANCE DIERICKX:  Yeah, exactly. Adopting a Meta-Leadership Strategy  BILL YATES:  We haven't really arrived as a leader and there we are thrust into these projects.  So I love the application of what you've shared in your book and the research that you have with project management and just thinking about how to apply that.  If a project manager were to adopt this meta-leadership strategy, how might that lead to success? CONSTANCE DIERICKX:  Well, it would lead them to utilize, but also be appropriately skeptical of their tactics.  Tactics in project management tend to be well known, well understood, and well practiced.  And there's a lot of training and education in project management.  A lot of it's very good, but it does narrow your aperture.  It sort of closes that lens.  And I want to say specializing in anything does that.  You know, when you have a PhD in clinical psych, for example, I'll just go with that one since that's what I know best.  It does tend to, you see the world through that particular lens.  And what I've found is extremely beneficial is to be able to switch out your lenses, not throwing in the garbage what you know about project management, but just widening that lens.  And that means being less of a specialist, less of an expert, if you will. I know in my business practice, in my advisory work, showing up and throwing up on people everything I know is a sure way to be shown the door.  Because first of all, I'm not respecting the context.  Project management is done in a context.  And so we have to respect the context, which means we have to be curious and learn about the context.  So with consultants, I'm fond of saying to coaches, people that are executive coaches will contact me quite often, and they start telling me what their methodology is.  And they all think it's groundbreakingly special.  It is not.  It is all some version of a procedure, a checklist.  It's not that that's bad.  It's just that people marry it.  We marry Six Sigma.  We marry some stakeholder paradigm.  And what I wanted to do with “Meta-Leadership” was say, this is a paradigm that lets you be aware of all the other paradigms that you're hanging onto. BILL YATES:  Awareness is one of the biggest takeaways I had from the book, the self-awareness and awareness of the environment.  We'll go deeper into that.  That’s a key word for me. Meta-Leadership Enables Decision-Making WENDY GROUNDS:  Another big part of the book is decision-making.  How meta-leadership enables decision making.  And if I just can add a quote that you said, “A common but surprising cause of bad decisions is past success.”  Can you elaborate on that and talk about decision making? CONSTANCE DIERICKX:  Yes.  It would probably help the listener to sort of imagine, to pick out from their experience an example of a leader who was the, I know it all, large and in charge leader.  They come into your company from XYZ.  We'll just pick on the external hire, right, who comes in at a leadership level, kicks in the door and says, well, when I was at fill-in-the-blank, when I was at GE, when I was at PepsiCo, when I was at P&G, whatever it happens to be.  That's an example of a failure being born from the seeds of success.  What happened there that worked well, no doubt there are some principles we can extract from that.  But what people tend to do is they apply tactics from situation to situation.  And sometimes the situations look strikingly familiar on the surface.  But again, if you are curious, and you take the time to learn about the context, you will be able to see differences and distinctions as well as similarities.  Then the decisions you make will be much better. You know, another success trap that leaders have is that they don't realize what decisions they're making.  They don't realize what decisions they've already made or what decisions they're postponing.  So being acutely attuned is really super important.  And it's why an external advisor is so important because internal people are less likely to tell you the truth.  I work with a lot of CEOs, and I always tell them – they say, “Well, I think I know what's going on.”  And I’m like, “Eh, my money's on you don't.  My money's on you know a great portion of what's going on.  My money is also on some of what you think is a two out of 10 is really an eight.” But here's the good news.  Once you are asking yourself the question, you can engage in a process to find out.  And it's the experimentation, the finding out, and curiosity is a very emotional thing that really distinguishes great, great, great leaders from the “eh, okay” leader. Factors that Drive our Decisions BILL YATES:  This brings me to the next question we wanted to discuss with you.