Boundaryless Conversations Podcast

Today we find out how to bridge philosophy, psychology, and management science to understand how businesses can enable a "good society." We are joined by two experts in this field, Antoinette Weibel and Otti Vogt, to find out what questions we need to be asking. Professor Dr. Antoinette Weibel is a full professor for human resource management at the University of St. Gallen. She is President of the Executive Committee of the Institute for Systemic Management and Public Governance at the University of St.Gallen and a member of the Executive Committee of the Institute for Media and Communications Management and the Institute for Business Ethics. Her current core project, ‘Good Organisations’, examines how organisations can become better members of society. Otti Vogt is a disruptive thought leader with over 20 years of experience in implementing strategic business change in multicultural, complex environments and in crafting human-centric learning organisations. As COO and Chief Transformation Officer at ING, he led ING’s global digital transformation programme and oversaw operational service performance for over 20 million customers worldwide. He is also a certified leadership coach, associate of the Globally Responsible Leadership Initiative (GRLI), and was recently named a Top 20 Global Thought Leader on Agile. Tune in to this episode as we explore the power of framing the right questions, how we can enable each other’s flourishing, the role of high-quality relationships and active reflection – and why no single idea will solve everything. A full transcript of the episode can be found on our website: https://boundaryless.io/podcast/antoinette-weibel-and-otti-vogt/ Key Highlights We Discussed > What do we mean by doing ‘good’ or ‘bad’ in business? > The impact of plurality and multiculturalism. > The power of sociality and facilitating higher quality relationships. > Defining a ‘flourishing’ individual and society. > Balancing globalism vs. community and landscape. To Find Out More About Otti and Antoinette’s Work: > Otti’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ottivogt > Otti’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/Otti_Vogt > Antoinette’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/antoinette-weibel/ > Antoinette’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/antoinetteprof > Website: https://goodorganisations.com/ Other References and Mentions: > Good Organisations’ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMTzXIuJLFz0IcJYztHPShQ > Building a Convivial Society: Autonomy, Tools, Scale, and Capabilities – with L.M. Sacasas: https://www.boundaryless.io/podcast/l-m-sacasas/ > Lorsch, Jay W. “Organization Design: A Situational Perspective.” Organizational Dynamics 6, no. 2 (1977): 2–14. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0090261677900420 Find Out More About the Show and the Research at Boundaryless: https://boundaryless.io/resources/podcast/ Thanks for the ad-hoc music to Liosound / Walter Mobilio. Find his portfolio here: https://boundaryless.io/podcast-music Recorded on 22 March 2022.

Jon Alexander began his career in advertising, winning the prestigious Big Creative Idea of the Year, before making a dramatic change. Driven by a deep need to understand the impact on society of 3,000 commercial messages a day, he gathered three Masters degrees, exploring consumerism and its alternatives from every angle. In 2014, he co-founded the New Citizenship Project with Irenie Ekkeshi to bring the resulting ideas into contact with reality. Since then, they have been on a mission to figure out how to use our skills — not just to sell stuff — to Consumers, and involve people in the decisions that affect their lives as Citizens. In this engaging conversation, Jon shares some great insights from his latest book Citizens: Why the Key to Fixing Everything is All of Us. We also explore how we can move away from being a passive consumer to being an active agent, how collective power leads to exponential results, the responsibility we have to build our own systems, and what a Citizen democracy means for the government. A full transcript of the episode can be found on our website: https://boundaryless.io/podcast/jon-alexander/ Key Highlights Defining Citizenship The Subject and Consumer stories versus the Citizen story How leaders of organizations can help to empower people to be Citizens Becoming active agents of change and investing in the future To Find Out More About Jon's Work: Twitter: twitter.com/jonjalex Website: www.jonalexander.net New Citizenship Project: www.newcitizenship.org.uk Book: Citizens: Why the Key to Fixing Everything is All of Us Other References and Mentions: Ouishare Fest: www.ouishare.net/fest Arlie Hochschild, The Deep Stories of Our Time: onbeing.org/programs/arlie-hoch…tories-of-our-time Dark Matter Labs - #BeyondTheRules with Indy Johar and Annette Dhami: boundaryless.io/podcast/dark-matter-labs Gov0 in Taiwan: g0v.asia Rob Davies, Phasing out Russian Oil: How UK Consumers Can Help the War Effort, 2022: theguardian.com/environment/2022/…-the-war-effort Better Reykjavik: citizens.is/portfolio_page/better_reykjavik The Liège Food Belt: communitiesforfuture.org/get-inspired…elt-belgium Why Blockchain Should Be Plural: Cosmos and Inter-Blockchain Communication – with Ethan Buchman: boundaryless.io/podcast/ethan-buchman Rebecca Solnit, A Paradise Built in Hell: The Extraordinary Communities That Arise in Disaster, 2010: amazon.com/Paradise-Built-He…es/dp/0143118072 Find out more about the show and the research at Boundaryless at boundaryless.io/resources/podcast Thanks for the ad-hoc music to Liosound / Walter Mobilio. Find his portfolio here: boundaryless.io/podcast-music Recorded on 13 March 2022.

Michele Zanini is the co-author of the Wall Street Journal Bestseller, Humanocracy. He is the co-founder of the Management Lab, where, together with Gary Hamel, he helps forward-thinking organizations become more resilient, innovative, and engaging places to work. Michele was previously a senior consultant at McKinsey & Company and a policy analyst at the RAND Corporation. His work has been featured in The Economist, Harvard Business Review, the Financial Times, and the Wall Street Journal. Michele joins the show to discuss how organizations have become so overburdened by bureaucracy and why new organizational models like those developed at Haier and Morningstar can be seen as socially dense markets. Tune in to this episode as we explore Industrial Age contracts, scalable freedom, the open-source software movement, and the continued need for management innovation. A full transcript of the episode can be found on our website: https://boundaryless.io/podcast/michele-zanini-2/ Key Highlights Use case of overcoming bureaucracy and the authoritarian nature of organizations The benefits of socially dense markets Why freedom and control don’t have to be trade-offs The cultural reliance on hierarchical organizations The need to consider management model innovation for the 21st century To Find Out More About Michele’s Work: Twitter: https://twitter.com/michelezanini Website: https://www.humanocracy.com/ Other References and Mentions: Simone Cicero, ‘Contracts and the Future of the Firm’, 2021: Contracts and the Future of the Firm Ronald Coase, The Nature of the Firm: The Nature of the Firm Buurtzorg: https://www.buurtzorg.com/ Apache Foundation: https://www.apache.org/ Find out more about the show and the research at Boundaryless at https://boundaryless.io/resources/podcast/ Thanks for the ad-hoc music to Liosound / Walter Mobilio. Find his portfolio here: https://boundaryless.io/podcast-music Recorded on 22 February 2022.

Ethan Buchman is the co-founder of the Cosmos network and serves as the CEO of Informal Systems. Informal Systems is a member-driven worker’s cooperative building software that enables trustworthy relationships between protocols and people to flourish. Ethan also serves as the President of the Interchain Foundation, which funds and coordinates development of public goods in the Cosmos ecosystem. Tune in to this discussion as we explore the current ‘moment’ blockchain is experiencing and the implications of having a community computer. We also discuss the personal computer revolution, polycentricity, and how Informal Systems is organized to enable their employees to self-organize. A full transcript of the episode can be found on our website: https://boundaryless.io/podcast/ethan-buchman/ Key Highlights Where blockchain fits in with the history of computing The concept of embedded cooperativism The role of sovereignty and multi-chain interoperability Standardization and commodification How individuals can participate in structural change How Informal Systems is structured through a high-trust environment and ‘promises’ To Find Out More About Ethan’s Work: Twitter: https://twitter.com/buchmanster Website: https://ebuchman.github.io/ Other References and Mentions: Karl Polanyi, The Great Transformation, 1944: The Great Transformation Informal Systems: https://informal.systems/ Informal Systems Twitter: https://twitter.com/informalinc Informal Systems’ internal organization: workflow.informal.systems Cosmos: https://cosmos.network/ Find out more about the show and the research at Boundaryless at https://boundaryless.io/resources/podcast/ Thanks for the ad-hoc music to Liosound / Walter Mobilio. Find his portfolio here: https://boundaryless.io/podcast-music Recorded on 16 February 2022.

Lucía Hernández is an expert in Platform Economy and New Emerging Trends. She has been working with organizations of all types to apply platform-ecosystems strategies. Lucía has contributed to research with global organizations and has helped design public policies related to short rental accommodation within the European Commission, IDB, and local governments. In the last two years, Lucía has been studying the intersections between regenerative design and platform design to help public and private organizations adopt a regenerative platform-ecosystem mindset. In this conversation, we delve into the roots of regenerative thinking and why the movement is gaining momentum. It was fascinating to learn from Lucía’s expertise about what we can learn from nature, how regenerative thinking is a process – not a goal, redefining ‘abundance,’ and some new organizations that are emerging in the platform economy. A full transcript of the episode can be found on our website: https://boundaryless.io/podcast/lucia-hernandez/ Key Highlights What is regenerative thinking and where does it come from? Lucía’s six key principles of regenerative design The ultimate aim of the regenerative thinking movement The role of place-based economies The abundance versus scarcity mindset Community wealth and investing To Find Out More About Lucía’s Work: Twitter: https://twitter.com/luciahdez3 Website: https://luciahernandez.co/ Lucía Hernandez, Regenerative Platform Design Principles: Regenerative Platform Design Principles Lucía Hernandez, Regenerative Platform Business Models - The Next Generation of Platforms: Regenerative Platform Business Models TEDx talk on regenerative tourism (in Spanish): Watch here Other References and Mentions: Buckminster Fuller (1970). I Seem To Be A Verb: Goodreads Showing the way with Web3 Marketplaces: Braintrust — with Gabriel Luna-Ostaseski: Episode The Restorative 20s: Why and How the 2020s Can Be the Decade of Regenerative Business, Podcast episode with Danielle Peltier Andrews: Listen here Narrative decentralization and the future of progress — with Jason Crawford: Episode Organizing in Nested Systems: Re-regionalisation, Landscape, and Global Solidarity — with Daniel Wahl: Episode Marjorie Kelly: marjoriekelly.org Trans-contextual Organizing: Shifting Perceptions — with Nora Bateson: Episode Find out more about the show and the research at Boundaryless at https://boundaryless.io/resources/podcast/ Thanks for the ad-hoc music to Liosound / Walter Mobilio. Find his portfolio here: https://boundaryless.io/podcast-music Recorded on 10 February 2022.

What does it mean to create convivial organizations and platforms? Today we explore the relationship between technology and society with L. M. Sacasas – and what we can learn from the philosopher Ivan Illich (1926-2002). L. M. Sacasas is the Associate Director of the Christian Study Center of Gainesville, Florida, and author of The Convivial Society, a newsletter about technology and society. Michael has written for The New Atlantis, The New Inquiry, Real Life Magazine, Mere Orthodoxy, Rhizomes, The American, and Second Nature Journal. Ivan Illich was a philosopher, Roman Catholic priest, and critic of the institutions of modern Western culture, addressing practices in education, medicine, work, energy use, transportation, and economic development. In this episode, we explore what we mean by conviviality, having tools to empower – not de-skill – humans, the necessity of limits, re-envisioning the good life, and why Ivan Illich has such a big following in today's society. A full transcript of the episode can be found on our website: https://boundaryless.io/podcast/l-m-sacasas/ Key Highlights The meaning of conviviality and the influence of Ivan Illich on L. M. Sacasas’ work The accuracy of Ivan Illich’s predictions on mental health, education, and work Examples of convivial tools Identifying how to measure progress and where to aim better Why the real world needs to embrace virtual reality To Find Out More About Michael’s Work: Twitter: https://twitter.com/LMSacasas The Convivial Society newsletter: https://theconvivialsociety.substack.com/ Other References and Mentions: The Abolition of Institutions: On Ivan Illich with LM Sacasas and Nina Power Ivan Illich, Tools for Conviviality, 1973: Amazon Ivan Illich, Deschooling Society, 1971: Wikipedia Thinking After Ivan Illich David Chalmers, Reality+, 2022: Amazon PD Smith, Reality+ by David J Chalmers review – are we living in a simulation? Boundaryless Whitepaper, New Foundations of Platform-Ecosystem Thinking — Designing Products and Organizations for a changing world, 2020: Download here Find out more about the show and the research at Boundaryless at https://boundaryless.io/resources/podcast/ Thanks for the ad-hoc music to Liosound / Walter Mobilio. Find his portfolio here: https://boundaryless.io/podcast-music Recorded on 20 January 2022.

In this episode, systempreneur Mara Zepeda joins us to talk about how Zebras Unite is creating the capital, culture, and community for the next economy. Mara Zepeda is Co-Founder and Managing Director of Zebras Unite. As an international and intersectional hybrid cooperative, Zebras Unite’s members include founders, investors, allies, and ecosystem builders from around the world, with over 25 chapters across six continents. Previously, Mara founded a venture-backed software company, Switchboard (now Hearken). We explore how the Zebra movement evolved from a manifesto they created, dissecting the difference between what they call Zebra companies and Unicorns. Additionally, we discuss how every business can be viewed as a vector for social change, the complexities and challenges of cooperative decision-making, the meaning of practicing mutualism and interdependence, and the effects of adopting a seasonal approach to energy management. Full episode details and transcript can be found on our website: boundaryless.io/podcast/zebras-unite/ Key Highlights The Zebra movement and the qualities of a Zebra company Why we need to view business as a human rights issue The qualities of ownership, governance, and culture among Zebras Founders’ roles in money, finances, and budget decisions Case studies of ‘Zebras in the wild’ Find out more about the show and the research at Boundaryless at boundaryless.io/resources/podcast/ Thanks for the ad-hoc music to Liosound / Walter Mobilio. Find his portfolio here: boundaryless.io/podcast-music Recorded on 20 January 2022.

In this special “Boundaryless Update” episode, we explore some of the patterns witnessed consolidating over the past ten years, covering key trends in marketplaces, shared infrastructures, and the evolving role of customer connection. This episode delves into building extension platforms, Amazon’s open marketplace doctrine, and the future of ecosystemic value creation. Whether you are a startup or a corporate organization, it’s essential to operate from a new playbook where product development is moving to the edges of the ecosystem. You can find an extended blog post with detailed highlights from the conversation on our website: boundaryless.io/podcast/boundaryless-update/

Jason Crawford is the founder of The Roots of Progress, where he writes and speaks about the history of technology and the philosophy of progress. He is also the creator of Progress Studies for Young Scholars, an online learning program for high schoolers, and a part-time adviser and technical consultant to Our World in Data, an Oxford-based nonprofit focused on global development research. Previously, Jason spent 18 years as a software engineer, engineering manager, and startup founder. A full transcript of the episode can be found on our website: boundaryless.io/podcast/jason-crawford/ Key highlights from the conversation We discussed: The impact of information technology on centralization and decentralization The emergence of a plurality of meanings of progress Removing excess capacity and its implications for supply chain disruptions The potential for cryptocurrencies to automate legal and financial actions Why the pace of progress is slowing down—and how to speed it up To find out more about Jason's work: Website: rootsofprogress.org LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jasonc Twitter: twitter.com/jasoncrawford Other references and mentions: Naval Ravikant: twitter.com/naval Find out more about the show and the research at Boundaryless at boundaryless.io/resources/podcast/ Thanks for the ad-hoc music to Liosound / Walter Mobilio. Find his portfolio here: boundaryless.io/podcast-music Recorded on 23 November 2021.

Today we are joined by Gabriel Luna-Ostaseski, the Co-Founder of Braintrust — the first user-controlled talent network that provides enterprises with the highly skilled technical and design talent they need. In this conversation we explore how Braintrust operates, the providers they work with, and how staking Braintrust tokens — BTrust —  help to build trust and build quality of supply in the Braintrust network. Prior to founding Braintrust, Gabe co-founded the home improvement marketplace Modernize.com. Recently he has consulted, advised, and invested in 50+ Silicon Valley startups including Thumbtack, Uber, Surfair and Lendinghome, Metromile and Massdrop. The first five companies he advised raised over $300M in follow-on funding. A full transcript of the episode can be found on our website: https://boundaryless.io/podcast/braintrust/ Key highlights of the conversation We discussed:> How radically dropping for both sides of the marketplace provides incentives to stay on the platform and unlock a whole new type and scale of transactions > How incentives can be used to make the network perform key value contributions such as referrals, vetting, and assessing the quality of transactions  > How Staking (of tokens) emerges as the new primitive of building trust in the network> Using Web3 without making things overly complicated > The institutional complexity of building for the web 3: one foundation, 6 service providers, and a community> How SAFT bootstrapping can be used as a new way to valorize an early-stage company versus the traditional ways (discontinuous valuation steps at liquidity events). To find out more about Gabe’s work: > Website: https://www.usebraintrust.com/ > Twitter: https://twitter.com/gabelunao > LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gabelunaostaseski Other references and mentions: > Jesse Walden, Progressive Decentralisation, a16z:https://a16z.com/2020/01/09/progressive-decentralization-crypto-product-management/ > Outcooperating the Competition: https://stories.platformdesigntoolkit.com/outcooperating-the-competition-42d0223dbb2c > Startup Grind Cape Town hosts Gabriel Luna-Ostaseski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxj3sMw3QoE > “Seven Startup Sales Sins” by Gabriel Luna-Ostaseski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxz4jLLm6qI > “How To Scale Your Startup” by Gabriel Luna-Ostaseski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qirIJp-t0Ng Find out more about the show and the research at Boundaryless at https://boundaryless.io/resources/podcast/ Thanks for the ad-hoc music to Liosound / Walter Mobilio. Find his portfolio here: https://boundaryless.io/podcast-music   Recorded on 11 November 2021.