Boundaryless Conversations Podcast

Michele Zanini is the co-author of the Wall Street Journal Bestseller, Humanocracy. He is the co-founder of the Management Lab, where, together with Gary Hamel, he helps forward-thinking organizations become more resilient, innovative, and engaging places to work. Michele was previously a senior consultant at McKinsey & Company and a policy analyst at the RAND Corporation. His work has been featured in The Economist, Harvard Business Review, the Financial Times, and the Wall Street Journal. Michele joins the show to discuss how organizations have become so overburdened by bureaucracy and why new organizational models like those developed at Haier and Morningstar can be seen as socially dense markets. Tune in to this episode as we explore Industrial Age contracts, scalable freedom, the open-source software movement, and the continued need for management innovation. A full transcript of the episode can be found on our website: https://boundaryless.io/podcast/michele-zanini-2/ Key Highlights Use case of overcoming bureaucracy and the authoritarian nature of organizations The benefits of socially dense markets Why freedom and control don’t have to be trade-offs The cultural reliance on hierarchical organizations The need to consider management model innovation for the 21st century To Find Out More About Michele’s Work: Twitter: https://twitter.com/michelezanini Website: https://www.humanocracy.com/ Other References and Mentions: Simone Cicero, ‘Contracts and the Future of the Firm’, 2021: Contracts and the Future of the Firm Ronald Coase, The Nature of the Firm: The Nature of the Firm Buurtzorg: https://www.buurtzorg.com/ Apache Foundation: https://www.apache.org/ Find out more about the show and the research at Boundaryless at https://boundaryless.io/resources/podcast/ Thanks for the ad-hoc music to Liosound / Walter Mobilio. Find his portfolio here: https://boundaryless.io/podcast-music Recorded on 22 February 2022.

Ethan Buchman is the co-founder of the Cosmos network and serves as the CEO of Informal Systems. Informal Systems is a member-driven worker’s cooperative building software that enables trustworthy relationships between protocols and people to flourish. Ethan also serves as the President of the Interchain Foundation, which funds and coordinates development of public goods in the Cosmos ecosystem. Tune in to this discussion as we explore the current ‘moment’ blockchain is experiencing and the implications of having a community computer. We also discuss the personal computer revolution, polycentricity, and how Informal Systems is organized to enable their employees to self-organize. A full transcript of the episode can be found on our website: https://boundaryless.io/podcast/ethan-buchman/ Key Highlights Where blockchain fits in with the history of computing The concept of embedded cooperativism The role of sovereignty and multi-chain interoperability Standardization and commodification How individuals can participate in structural change How Informal Systems is structured through a high-trust environment and ‘promises’ To Find Out More About Ethan’s Work: Twitter: https://twitter.com/buchmanster Website: https://ebuchman.github.io/ Other References and Mentions: Karl Polanyi, The Great Transformation, 1944: The Great Transformation Informal Systems: https://informal.systems/ Informal Systems Twitter: https://twitter.com/informalinc Informal Systems’ internal organization: workflow.informal.systems Cosmos: https://cosmos.network/ Find out more about the show and the research at Boundaryless at https://boundaryless.io/resources/podcast/ Thanks for the ad-hoc music to Liosound / Walter Mobilio. Find his portfolio here: https://boundaryless.io/podcast-music Recorded on 16 February 2022.

Lucía Hernández is an expert in Platform Economy and New Emerging Trends. She has been working with organizations of all types to apply platform-ecosystems strategies. Lucía has contributed to research with global organizations and has helped design public policies related to short rental accommodation within the European Commission, IDB, and local governments. In the last two years, Lucía has been studying the intersections between regenerative design and platform design to help public and private organizations adopt a regenerative platform-ecosystem mindset. In this conversation, we delve into the roots of regenerative thinking and why the movement is gaining momentum. It was fascinating to learn from Lucía’s expertise about what we can learn from nature, how regenerative thinking is a process – not a goal, redefining ‘abundance,’ and some new organizations that are emerging in the platform economy. A full transcript of the episode can be found on our website: https://boundaryless.io/podcast/lucia-hernandez/ Key Highlights What is regenerative thinking and where does it come from? Lucía’s six key principles of regenerative design The ultimate aim of the regenerative thinking movement The role of place-based economies The abundance versus scarcity mindset Community wealth and investing To Find Out More About Lucía’s Work: Twitter: https://twitter.com/luciahdez3 Website: https://luciahernandez.co/ Lucía Hernandez, Regenerative Platform Design Principles: Regenerative Platform Design Principles Lucía Hernandez, Regenerative Platform Business Models - The Next Generation of Platforms: Regenerative Platform Business Models TEDx talk on regenerative tourism (in Spanish): Watch here Other References and Mentions: Buckminster Fuller (1970). I Seem To Be A Verb: Goodreads Showing the way with Web3 Marketplaces: Braintrust — with Gabriel Luna-Ostaseski: Episode The Restorative 20s: Why and How the 2020s Can Be the Decade of Regenerative Business, Podcast episode with Danielle Peltier Andrews: Listen here Narrative decentralization and the future of progress — with Jason Crawford: Episode Organizing in Nested Systems: Re-regionalisation, Landscape, and Global Solidarity — with Daniel Wahl: Episode Marjorie Kelly: marjoriekelly.org Trans-contextual Organizing: Shifting Perceptions — with Nora Bateson: Episode Find out more about the show and the research at Boundaryless at https://boundaryless.io/resources/podcast/ Thanks for the ad-hoc music to Liosound / Walter Mobilio. Find his portfolio here: https://boundaryless.io/podcast-music Recorded on 10 February 2022.

L. M. Sacasas, Associate Director of the Christian Study Center in Gainesville and author of The Convivial Society, dives into the essence of conviviality and the profound influence of philosopher Ivan Illich. They discuss creating tools that empower rather than de-skill individuals and the need for societal limits to foster genuine human connections. Sacasas critiques the responses to COVID-19 while advocating for a sustainable future centered on community relationships. A thought-provoking exploration of autonomy and redefining fulfillment awaits!

In this episode, systempreneur Mara Zepeda joins us to talk about how Zebras Unite is creating the capital, culture, and community for the next economy. Mara Zepeda is Co-Founder and Managing Director of Zebras Unite. As an international and intersectional hybrid cooperative, Zebras Unite’s members include founders, investors, allies, and ecosystem builders from around the world, with over 25 chapters across six continents. Previously, Mara founded a venture-backed software company, Switchboard (now Hearken). We explore how the Zebra movement evolved from a manifesto they created, dissecting the difference between what they call Zebra companies and Unicorns. Additionally, we discuss how every business can be viewed as a vector for social change, the complexities and challenges of cooperative decision-making, the meaning of practicing mutualism and interdependence, and the effects of adopting a seasonal approach to energy management. Full episode details and transcript can be found on our website: boundaryless.io/podcast/zebras-unite/ Key Highlights The Zebra movement and the qualities of a Zebra company Why we need to view business as a human rights issue The qualities of ownership, governance, and culture among Zebras Founders’ roles in money, finances, and budget decisions Case studies of ‘Zebras in the wild’ Find out more about the show and the research at Boundaryless at boundaryless.io/resources/podcast/ Thanks for the ad-hoc music to Liosound / Walter Mobilio. Find his portfolio here: boundaryless.io/podcast-music Recorded on 20 January 2022.

In this special “Boundaryless Update” episode, we explore some of the patterns witnessed consolidating over the past ten years, covering key trends in marketplaces, shared infrastructures, and the evolving role of customer connection. This episode delves into building extension platforms, Amazon’s open marketplace doctrine, and the future of ecosystemic value creation. Whether you are a startup or a corporate organization, it’s essential to operate from a new playbook where product development is moving to the edges of the ecosystem. You can find an extended blog post with detailed highlights from the conversation on our website: boundaryless.io/podcast/boundaryless-update/

Jason Crawford is the founder of The Roots of Progress, where he writes and speaks about the history of technology and the philosophy of progress. He is also the creator of Progress Studies for Young Scholars, an online learning program for high schoolers, and a part-time adviser and technical consultant to Our World in Data, an Oxford-based nonprofit focused on global development research. Previously, Jason spent 18 years as a software engineer, engineering manager, and startup founder. A full transcript of the episode can be found on our website: boundaryless.io/podcast/jason-crawford/ Key highlights from the conversation We discussed: The impact of information technology on centralization and decentralization The emergence of a plurality of meanings of progress Removing excess capacity and its implications for supply chain disruptions The potential for cryptocurrencies to automate legal and financial actions Why the pace of progress is slowing down—and how to speed it up To find out more about Jason's work: Website: rootsofprogress.org LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jasonc Twitter: twitter.com/jasoncrawford Other references and mentions: Naval Ravikant: twitter.com/naval Find out more about the show and the research at Boundaryless at boundaryless.io/resources/podcast/ Thanks for the ad-hoc music to Liosound / Walter Mobilio. Find his portfolio here: boundaryless.io/podcast-music Recorded on 23 November 2021.

Today we are joined by Gabriel Luna-Ostaseski, the Co-Founder of Braintrust — the first user-controlled talent network that provides enterprises with the highly skilled technical and design talent they need. In this conversation we explore how Braintrust operates, the providers they work with, and how staking Braintrust tokens — BTrust —  help to build trust and build quality of supply in the Braintrust network. Prior to founding Braintrust, Gabe co-founded the home improvement marketplace Modernize.com. Recently he has consulted, advised, and invested in 50+ Silicon Valley startups including Thumbtack, Uber, Surfair and Lendinghome, Metromile and Massdrop. The first five companies he advised raised over $300M in follow-on funding. A full transcript of the episode can be found on our website: https://boundaryless.io/podcast/braintrust/ Key highlights of the conversation We discussed:> How radically dropping for both sides of the marketplace provides incentives to stay on the platform and unlock a whole new type and scale of transactions > How incentives can be used to make the network perform key value contributions such as referrals, vetting, and assessing the quality of transactions  > How Staking (of tokens) emerges as the new primitive of building trust in the network> Using Web3 without making things overly complicated > The institutional complexity of building for the web 3: one foundation, 6 service providers, and a community> How SAFT bootstrapping can be used as a new way to valorize an early-stage company versus the traditional ways (discontinuous valuation steps at liquidity events). To find out more about Gabe’s work: > Website: https://www.usebraintrust.com/ > Twitter: https://twitter.com/gabelunao > LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gabelunaostaseski Other references and mentions: > Jesse Walden, Progressive Decentralisation, a16z:https://a16z.com/2020/01/09/progressive-decentralization-crypto-product-management/ > Outcooperating the Competition: https://stories.platformdesigntoolkit.com/outcooperating-the-competition-42d0223dbb2c > Startup Grind Cape Town hosts Gabriel Luna-Ostaseski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxj3sMw3QoE > “Seven Startup Sales Sins” by Gabriel Luna-Ostaseski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxz4jLLm6qI > “How To Scale Your Startup” by Gabriel Luna-Ostaseski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qirIJp-t0Ng Find out more about the show and the research at Boundaryless at https://boundaryless.io/resources/podcast/ Thanks for the ad-hoc music to Liosound / Walter Mobilio. Find his portfolio here: https://boundaryless.io/podcast-music   Recorded on 11 November 2021.

Today we are joined by Ivan Draganov, Lead Online Marketplaces Analyst at Dealroom.co, to share his latest insights on how fintech-enabled marketplaces are creating more value than either marketplaces and financial services alone. Ivan is leading Dealroom.co's intelligence efforts on Online marketplaces.   Dealroom.co is a global provider of data and intelligence on startups and tech ecosystems. They work with many of the world's most prominent investors, entrepreneurs and government organizations to provide transparency, analysis and insights on venture capital activity. Their mission is to accelerate entrepreneurship and innovation through data for governments, corporates, VCs and founders.   A full transcript of the episode can be found on our website: https://boundaryless.io/podcast/ivan/   Key highlights of the conversation We discussed: The role of financial services in reducing friction in marketplaces. Fintech as a way for marketplaces to keep up with innovations like escrow, insurance and early pay-outs, etc.   Future prospects and research, especially in the B2B space. Changing consumer expectations influenced by issues like climate change, circular economy and Covid-19.  The evolving definition of a “marketplace” considering the trends discussed.    To find out more about Ivan’s work:   > Website: https://dealroom.co/  > Dealroom’s Newsletters: https://dealroom.co/newsletters  > Ivan’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ivandraganov/    Other references and mentions:   > The Future of Marketplaces: Fintech-Enabled: https://dealroom.co/reports/the-future-of-marketplaces-fintech-enabled  > Platform for marketplaces research: https://marketplaces.dealroom.co/intro  > Alex Rampell - Visa: The Original Protocol Business: https://www.joincolossus.com/episodes/46164128/rampell-visa-the-original-protocol-business Find out more about the show and the research at Boundaryless at https://boundaryless.io/resources/podcast/   Thanks for the ad-hoc music to Liosound / Walter Mobilio. Find his portfolio here: https://boundaryless.io/podcast-music   Recorded on 5 November 2021.

Dark Matter Labs is a multidisciplinary design team developing new working methods for system change. Today we’re joined by Indy Johar and Annette Dhami to discuss their mission of discovering, designing and developing the institutional ‘dark matter’ that supports a more democratic, distributed and sustainable future.   Indy Johar is a founding Director of 00 and Dark Matter Labs. An architect by training, Indy is a Senior Innovation Associate with the Young Foundation and a visiting Professor at the University of Sheffield. He co-founded Impact Hub Birmingham and Open Systems Lab, and was a member of the RSA’s Inclusive Growth Commission. He is a thought leader in system change, the future of urban infrastructure finance, outcome-based investment, and the future of governance.   Annette Dhami spent over a decade building, operating and driving mission-led (and often place-based) organisations and networks, including Impact Hubs (Brixton and Islington) and the Plymouth Social Enterprise Network, exploring how we organise, finance, use buildings, build networks and create economies for shared benefit. Annette joined Dark Matter Labs in 2020 to focus more deeply on how we organise and operate (in theory and creating this in practice) for transition. She holds the organising and operational work of the international Dark Matter Labs ecosystem (read more about that here), and explores these organising questions more deeply in the multi-partner #BeyondtheRules project.     A full transcript of the episode can be found on our website: https://boundaryless.io/podcast/dark-matter-labs/    Key highlights: We discussed: Dark Matter Labs’ ambitions for creating a real learning organisation. Governing by building learning capacity inside organisations. The theory of genius to make people accountable through care and learning. The ability to work diagonally across local and global dimensions. Creating markets and new theories of value.  The tension and spectrum between “patronising” governance and fostering autonomous (almost autocratic) entrepreneurialism. Making space for care and innovation at every point in the system.   To find out more about Annette Dhami and Indy Johar’s work:   > Website: https://darkmatterlabs.org/  > Annette’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annette-dhami-1735554a/ > Indy’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/indy-johar-b440b010/    Other references and mentions:   > DM Notes Series: https://provocations.darkmatterlabs.org/ > The Beyond The Rules project: https://provocations.darkmatterlabs.org/beyondtherules-e3ab44f0dc3    > Organising #BeyondTheRules series: https://provocations.darkmatterlabs.org/organising-beyondtherules-at-dark-matter-labs-e59e4f5dd32f    Find out more about the show and the research at Boundaryless at https://boundaryless.io/resources/podcast/   Thanks for the ad-hoc music to Liosound / Walter Mobilio. Find his portfolio here: https://boundaryless.io/podcast-music   Recorded on 26 October 2021.